[News] EntirelyOpen-source Graphics Cards Coming Soon

Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month

,----[ Quote ]
| Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
| Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today at
| FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
| graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very low-end
| graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
| Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
`----

[url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]


Related:

The Open Graphics Development Board

,----[ Quote ]
| Additional details are available on the Traversal Technology Product Page.
`----

[url]http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php?page=OGD1[/url]


Project VGA

,----[ Quote ]
| Home of the Low Budget, Open Source, VGA Compatible video card
`----

[url]http://www.wacco.mveas.com/projectvga.php[/url]


First Open Graphics board appears

,----[ Quote ]
| This project is on the basis that a GPU should not end up with
| tons of propriatary software or hardware, containing hidden
| problems that aren't mentioned to the press, and yet cause
| nervous breakdowns for developers worldwide.
`----

[url]http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36761[/url]


Interview: Timothy Miller, Open Graphics Project

,----[ Quote ]
| The OGP grew rapidly after I first started it, and it's continued to
| grow gradually since then. Now, we have Traversal Technology and also
| the Open Hardware Foundation that's dedicated to the non-profit,
| community, and democratic aspects of the project. Our mailing list has
| over 500 members, including well-known Linux kernel hackers, 3D graphics
| experts, college professors, representatives of many other open
| source projects, hardware designers, and people who want to become
| hardware designers.
`----

[url]http://linuxgazette.net/130/ruecker.html[/url]

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today at
> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very low-end
> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
> `----
>
> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>[/color]

Not bad. Only about 10 years behind then. Actually make that 15.

"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...[color=blue]
> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
> at
> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
> low-end
> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
> `----
>
> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>[/color]

Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp to the early
1990's?

"Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.

I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800 right now since it's
all but obsolete! It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and a
memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it uses GDDR3 memory) and
768 Megs of memory.

Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
this joke video card are all low end useless crap?





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

Troy Kirkland wrote:
[color=blue]
> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex
> Cloudbook and this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]

The customers (not to mention developers) are low-end types that can't
afford good software.

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> espoused:[color=blue]
> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
>| Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>| Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today at
>| FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>| graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very low-end
>| graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>| Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
> `----
>
> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>[/color]

Anything which helps to reduce the carbon footprint of modern computing
is a good thing. Except to those selling bloated software, of course...

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: [url]http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/[/url] |
| Cola trolls: [url]http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/[/url] |
| My (new) blog: [url]http://www.thereisnomagic.org[/url] |

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:26:06 -0500, DFS wrote:
[color=blue]
> Troy Kirkland wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook
>> and this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]
>
> The customers (not to mention developers) are low-end types that can't
> afford good software.[/color]

There are more poor people than rich people in the world, and the meek
are going to inherit the earth. ;)

"Mark Kent" <mark.kent@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vn5b95-ir.ln1@ellandroad.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> espoused:[color=green]
>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>| Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>>at
>>| FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>>| graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>low-end
>>| graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>>| Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>> `----
>>
>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>[/color]
>
> Anything which helps to reduce the carbon footprint of modern computing
> is a good thing. Except to those selling bloated software, of course...[/color]

This video card certainly won't be reducing the carbon footprint of anything
when cases of unsold units find their way to the local landfill.

This card is a perfect example of how unrealistic some zealots are. Just
because its "open source" they think people will buy it. People will buy
what works best and has the most value. They'll be lucky if they sell a
couple dozen of these overpriced crap video cards.


[color=blue]
>
> --
> | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
> | Cola faq: [url]http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/[/url] |
> | Cola trolls: [url]http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/[/url] |
> | My (new) blog: [url]http://www.thereisnomagic.org[/url] |[/color]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

Micoshaft Fraudster and Asstroturfer Troy Kirkland flatly wrote on behalf of
Micoshaft Corporation:
[color=blue]
>
> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...[color=green]
>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>> at
>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>> low-end
>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>> `----
>>
>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>[/color]
>
> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp to the early
> 1990's?
>
> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>
> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800 right now since
> it's all but obsolete! It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and
> a memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it uses GDDR3 memory)
> and 768 Megs of memory.
>
> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

Windummy retards trying to put down free software projects again
and not succeeding too well.

Zero understanding of what is happening or what just happened.

Micoshaft Corporation Fraudster and Asstroturfer DFS wrote on behalf of
Micoshaft Corporation:
[color=blue]
> Troy Kirkland wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex
>> Cloudbook and this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]
>
> The customers (not to mention developers) are low-end types that can't
> afford good software.[/color]


Well lookee here, all the resident trolls are gathered in one thread!

They definitely don't like the idea of open source graphics
cards being produced by open sourcers.

Wonder whats got the hornet's nest all stirred up over
a 'simple' open source graphics card advance.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland
<kirk@google.com>
wrote
on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:06:46 -0500
<47c2cdf4$0$26078$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:[color=blue]
>
> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...[color=green]
>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>> at
>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>> low-end
>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>> `----
>>
>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>[/color]
>
> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp
> to the early 1990's?
>
> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>
> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800
> right now since it's all but obsolete![/color]

NVidia's GeForce 9600 GT series appears to be state of the art.
Drivers for older cards therefore should be absolutely frozen,
with no updates at all available after the 9600 GT comes out.

Spot The Flaw.
[color=blue]
> It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and a
> memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it
> uses GDDR3 memory) and 768 Megs of memory.[/color]

ITYM 768*k* of RAM. The specifications suggest
16 MB SDRAM anyway. Oddly, the parts list suggests
256 MB (2 128MB 167MHz units).
[color=blue]
>
> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?
>[/color]


I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
be at the mercy of the commercial card developers, an
ultra-competitive market with razor-thin margins and little
or no time to develop drivers for "alternative operating
systems", which Linux clearly is (unless I miss my guess,
it's only mainstream for the server market -- a market
that needs no video cards at all, and could get by without
even a serial adapter, though there would be difficulties
in running diagnostics if the NIC malfunctions thereon).

Of course, that would be more profitable for the commercial
card developers.

--
#191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, 7
<website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com>
wrote
on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:42:51 GMT
<LvHwj.13400$XI.12262@text.news.virginmedia.com>:[color=blue]
> Micoshaft Fraudster and Asstroturfer Troy Kirkland flatly wrote on behalf of
> Micoshaft Corporation:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>>> at
>>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>> low-end
>>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp to the early
>> 1990's?
>>
>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>>
>> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800 right now since
>> it's all but obsolete! It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and
>> a memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it uses GDDR3 memory)
>> and 768 Megs of memory.
>>
>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
>> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]
>
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
>
> Windummy retards trying to put down free software projects again
> and not succeeding too well.
>
> Zero understanding of what is happening or what just happened.
>[/color]

Pedant Point: this is not a free software project; this is
actually rather more inclusive and even exciting (though
without cost containment it won't compete all that well,
and no hints of Linux drivers just quite yet).

It is free, of course, and all specs are under GPLv3.
We'll see how it all goes. It appears to have JTAG support
(whatever the heck *that* is, but it appears to allow for
card reprogramming on the fly).

No doubt a Windows driver will be forthcoming, for those who
really need it; certainly there are hints that Windows is
being used for development of various peripheral software
surrounding the card proper.

Couple this with a modified variant of
[url]http://www.homebrewcpu.com/[/url] (AFAICT he doesn't have a PCI
bus) and one could get into a very weird, but free, space.

--
#191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #1123133:
void f(FILE * fptr, char *p) { fgets(p, sizeof(p), fptr); }

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:k32c95-tj9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...[color=blue]
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland
> <kirk@google.com>
> wrote
> on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:06:46 -0500
> <47c2cdf4$0$26078$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:[color=green]
>>
>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced
>>> today
>>> at
>>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his
>>> prototype
>>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>> low-end
>>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM,
>>> Xilinx
>>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp
>> to the early 1990's?
>>
>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>>
>> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800
>> right now since it's all but obsolete![/color]
>
> NVidia's GeForce 9600 GT series appears to be state of the art.
> Drivers for older cards therefore should be absolutely frozen,
> with no updates at all available after the 9600 GT comes out.
>
> Spot The Flaw.
>[color=green]
>> It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and a
>> memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it
>> uses GDDR3 memory) and 768 Megs of memory.[/color]
>
> ITYM 768*k* of RAM. The specifications suggest
> 16 MB SDRAM anyway. Oddly, the parts list suggests
> 256 MB (2 128MB 167MHz units).
>[color=green]
>>
>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook
>> and
>> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

[color=blue]
> I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
> be at the mercy of the commercial card developers,[/color]

How about the "Linux community" actually try working *with* commercial card
developers. How about being happy with getting drivers for the hardware
instead of /demanding/ source code to the cards they spent $10's of millions
developing. How about not boycotting and whining against every company that
doesn't drink the same kool-aid as the members of this "Linux community" do.
Perhaps the "Linux community" can be more realistic and less hostile towards
excellent devices (like the iPhone) and quit touting the next "iPod killer"
which is some useless brick.

I don't expect anyone to be at the mercy of anyone. But I do expect what are
supposedly grown-ups to behave in a civilized manor and not like a bunch of
whining zealots each time they don't get their way.



[color=blue]
> an
> ultra-competitive market with razor-thin margins and little
> or no time to develop drivers for "alternative operating
> systems", which Linux clearly is (unless I miss my guess,
> it's only mainstream for the server market -- a market
> that needs no video cards at all, and could get by without
> even a serial adapter, though there would be difficulties
> in running diagnostics if the NIC malfunctions thereon).
>
> Of course, that would be more profitable for the commercial
> card developers.
>
> --
> #191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
> Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
> void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]
>[/color]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> writes:
[color=blue]
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, 7
> <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com>
> wrote
> on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:42:51 GMT
> <LvHwj.13400$XI.12262@text.news.virginmedia.com>:[color=green]
>> Micoshaft Fraudster and Asstroturfer Troy Kirkland flatly wrote on behalf of
>> Micoshaft Corporation:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...
>>>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>>>
>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>>>> at
>>>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>>>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>>> low-end
>>>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>>>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>>>> `----
>>>>
>>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp to the early
>>> 1990's?
>>>
>>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>>>
>>> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800 right now since
>>> it's all but obsolete! It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and
>>> a memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it uses GDDR3 memory)
>>> and 768 Megs of memory.
>>>
>>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
>>> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?[/color]
>>
>>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
>>
>> Windummy retards trying to put down free software projects again
>> and not succeeding too well.
>>
>> Zero understanding of what is happening or what just happened.
>>[/color]
>
> Pedant Point: this is not a free software project; this is
> actually rather more inclusive and even exciting (though
> without cost containment it won't compete all that well,
> and no hints of Linux drivers just quite yet).
>
> It is free, of course, and all specs are under GPLv3.
> We'll see how it all goes. It appears to have JTAG support
> (whatever the heck *that* is, but it appears to allow for
> card reprogramming on the fly).
>
> No doubt a Windows driver will be forthcoming, for those who
> really need it; certainly there are hints that Windows is
> being used for development of various peripheral software
> surrounding the card proper.
>
> Couple this with a modified variant of
> [url]http://www.homebrewcpu.com/[/url] (AFAICT he doesn't have a PCI
> bus) and one could get into a very weird, but free, space.[/color]

I think you are too old school and don't really know what modern video
cards can do.

The whole project is ridiculous.

"Open" or "Closed" means nothing. NVidia or ATI really don't care what
you use your card to display ... in 320x200 on this new "card" or
2048x1600 or whatever in blazing 3d on a HD widescreen big screen at 120
fps with 16xAA etc etc etc .... etc etc on a modern 8800GT or whatever.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:10:33 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:

[color=blue][color=green]
>> I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
>> be at the mercy of the commercial card developers,[/color]
>
> How about the "Linux community" actually try working *with* commercial card
> developers. How about being happy with getting drivers for the hardware
> instead of /demanding/ source code to the cards they spent $10's of millions
> developing. How about not boycotting and whining against every company that
> doesn't drink the same kool-aid as the members of this "Linux community" do.
> Perhaps the "Linux community" can be more realistic and less hostile towards
> excellent devices (like the iPhone) and quit touting the next "iPod killer"
> which is some useless brick.
>
> I don't expect anyone to be at the mercy of anyone. But I do expect what are
> supposedly grown-ups to behave in a civilized manor and not like a bunch of
> whining zealots each time they don't get their way.[/color]

Well put Troy!
Well done!




--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
[url]http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/[/url]

* The Ghost In The Machine peremptorily fired off this memo:
[color=blue]
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>
>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url][/color]
>>
>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp
>> to the early 1990's?
>>
>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.[/color]
>
> I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
> be at the mercy of the commercial card developers, an
> ultra-competitive market with razor-thin margins and little
> or no time to develop drivers for "alternative operating
> systems", which Linux clearly is (unless I miss my guess,
> it's only mainstream for the server market -- a market
> that needs no video cards at all, and could get by without
> even a serial adapter, though there would be difficulties
> in running diagnostics if the NIC malfunctions thereon).
> card developers.[/color]

Well spoken, Ghost.

At least one teranews poster isn't a ****head!

--
It's a business I don't know anything about, but I admire Bill Gates
enormously. I know him individually, and I think he's incredible in business.
-- Warren Buffett, in lecture at Kenan-Flagler Business School, University
of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (1994)

Linonut <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:
[color=blue]
> * The Ghost In The Machine peremptorily fired off this memo:
>[color=green]
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland[color=darkred]
>>>>
>>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>
>>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp
>>> to the early 1990's?
>>>
>>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.[/color]
>>
>> I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
>> be at the mercy of the commercial card developers, an
>> ultra-competitive market with razor-thin margins and little
>> or no time to develop drivers for "alternative operating
>> systems", which Linux clearly is (unless I miss my guess,
>> it's only mainstream for the server market -- a market
>> that needs no video cards at all, and could get by without
>> even a serial adapter, though there would be difficulties
>> in running diagnostics if the NIC malfunctions thereon).
>> card developers.[/color]
>
> Well spoken, Ghost.
>
> At least one teranews poster isn't a ****head![/color]

Get your order in then Liarnut. 200 bucks and not guaranteed to even
work.

Sheesh.

I run Compiz Fusion. It works. My card was cheap enough. It runs games
blazingly fast. It runs faultlessly in Windows and Linux.

And yet you have it in for NVidia?

You're a bigger idiot than I had you pegged for. And that little debacle
about DVD/CD burning really took the jam out of your doughnut. As usual
showing off to the COLA gang and little did you know that the developer
himself was watching and showed you up for the idiot that you are.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland
<kirk@google.com>
wrote
on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:10:33 -0500
<47c35b78$0$25977$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:[color=blue]
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
> news:k32c95-tj9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...[color=green]
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Troy Kirkland
>> <kirk@google.com>
>> wrote
>> on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:06:46 -0500
>> <47c2cdf4$0$26078$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...
>>>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>>>
>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced
>>>> today
>>>> at
>>>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his
>>>> prototype
>>>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>>> low-end
>>>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM,
>>>> Xilinx
>>>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>>>> `----
>>>>
>>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp
>>> to the early 1990's?
>>>
>>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>>>
>>> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800
>>> right now since it's all but obsolete![/color]
>>
>> NVidia's GeForce 9600 GT series appears to be state of the art.
>> Drivers for older cards therefore should be absolutely frozen,
>> with no updates at all available after the 9600 GT comes out.
>>
>> Spot The Flaw.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and a
>>> memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it
>>> uses GDDR3 memory) and 768 Megs of memory.[/color]
>>
>> ITYM 768*k* of RAM. The specifications suggest
>> 16 MB SDRAM anyway. Oddly, the parts list suggests
>> 256 MB (2 128MB 167MHz units).
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook
>>> and
>>> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> I suppose you'd prefer that we in the Linux community
>> be at the mercy of the commercial card developers,[/color]
>
> How about the "Linux community" actually try working
> *with* commercial card developers.[/color]

And how, precisely, would we do that? You have looked
at /usr/src/linux/Documentation on occasion, I trust?
Not to mention the video source code.

Still, an interesting point. Linus et al need to
give the card manufacturers templatized drivers, ample
documentation, and phone support, perhaps.

Even better: we should support a "Windows Emulation
mode" which would allow an .EXE driver to be loaded as
a Linux module, on all hardware platforms (possibly with
optimizations for the x86 platform). If I'm not mistaken,
there are about 4 driver types for Windows, but would have
to look. The code for this mode could be lifted from Bochs.

This would have a number of advantages, one of which
is allowing Microsoft to put DRM into the drivers. That
way, everyone's happy. (Everyone but the consumer, perhaps.
But what does he know?)
[color=blue]
> How about being happy with getting drivers for the hardware
> instead of /demanding/ source code to the cards they spent
> $10's of millions developing.[/color]

Hundreds of millions, if I'm not mistaken. Each chip
set probably took 10 man-years to develop (team of 20,
6 months). That's $1M per set right there. Of course
they'll get that back once they sell 100,000 or so units
each.

Now take a look at

[url]http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_18897.html[/url]

That's 187 chip types. Total estimated development cost: $187M.

Alternative OS support is probably an additional 5-10%
of that (standard software porting cost estimate), or
$9.5M.

Now let's look at NVDA. $12.21B cap, $4.10B revenue,
$797.65M profits. Whoops, we've deducted 1 1/2 cents
per share from each shareholder by requiring alternative
OS support. Not good.

[color=blue]
> How about not boycotting and whining against every company that
> doesn't drink the same kool-aid as the members of this "Linux community" do.[/color]

Boycotting? I went out and bought a 5500 after the ATI card
I purchased was so bad with UT2004 it was nearly unusable.

$60 for the ATI card, $100 for the 5500. I'm still using it today.
[color=blue]
> Perhaps the "Linux community" can be more realistic and
> less hostile towards excellent devices (like the iPhone)
> and quit touting the next "iPod killer" which is some
> useless brick.
>
> I don't expect anyone to be at the mercy of anyone. But I do
> expect what are supposedly grown-ups to behave in a
> civilized manor and not like a bunch of whining zealots each
> time they don't get their way.
>
>
>
>[color=green]
>> an
>> ultra-competitive market with razor-thin margins and little
>> or no time to develop drivers for "alternative operating
>> systems", which Linux clearly is (unless I miss my guess,[/color][/color]

I may have to revise this statement; NVidia's margins are
actually pretty healthy. This is another debtless company,
BTW, much like Microsoft.

[url]http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NVDA[/url]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> it's only mainstream for the server market -- a market
>> that needs no video cards at all, and could get by without
>> even a serial adapter, though there would be difficulties
>> in running diagnostics if the NIC malfunctions thereon).
>>
>> Of course, that would be more profitable for the commercial
>> card developers.
>>
>> --
>> #191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
>> Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
>> void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]
>>[/color]
>
>
>[/color]


--
#191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
a regular basis, random crashes, and "extend, embrace, and extinguish".

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
<hadronquark@googlemail.com>
wrote
on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:49:39 +0100
<fpvr7k$c7h$3@registered.motzarella.org>:[color=blue]
> The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> writes:
>[color=green]
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, 7
>> <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com>
>> wrote
>> on Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:42:51 GMT
>> <LvHwj.13400$XI.12262@text.news.virginmedia.com>:[color=darkred]
>>> Micoshaft Fraudster and Asstroturfer Troy Kirkland flatly wrote on behalf of
>>> Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:3290965.WmfWIWp1nt@schestowitz.com...
>>>>> Project VGA Hopes To Ship Next Month
>>>>>
>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>>> | Michael Meeuwisse of Project VGA, which spawned from the Open Graphics
>>>>> | Project for creating a truly open-source graphics card, announced today
>>>>> at
>>>>> | FOSDEM 2008 that next month he hopes to ship the first of his prototype
>>>>> | graphics cards. However, before you get your hopes up, this is a very
>>>>> low-end
>>>>> | graphics card. The current Project VGA board has 16MB of SD RAM, Xilinx
>>>>> | Spartan 3 s400 FPGA under 100MHz, and uses the PCI bus.
>>>>> `----
>>>>>
>>>>> [url]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM1NQ[/url]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is it April 1st already? Or is this some sort of time warp to the early
>>>> 1990's?
>>>>
>>>> "Project VGA" - A 100Mhz PCI card with 16-megs of memory.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that NVidia should discontinue the GeForce 8800 right now since
>>>> it's all but obsolete! It only has a stream processor clock of 1.5GHz, and
>>>> a memory clock of 1080MHz (effectively 2160MHz since it uses GDDR3 memory)
>>>> and 768 Megs of memory.
>>>>
>>>> Why is it that linux based consumer products like the Everex Cloudbook and
>>>> this joke video card are all low end useless crap?
>>>
>>>
>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
>>>
>>> Windummy retards trying to put down free software projects again
>>> and not succeeding too well.
>>>
>>> Zero understanding of what is happening or what just happened.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Pedant Point: this is not a free software project; this is
>> actually rather more inclusive and even exciting (though
>> without cost containment it won't compete all that well,
>> and no hints of Linux drivers just quite yet).
>>
>> It is free, of course, and all specs are under GPLv3.
>> We'll see how it all goes. It appears to have JTAG support
>> (whatever the heck *that* is, but it appears to allow for
>> card reprogramming on the fly).
>>
>> No doubt a Windows driver will be forthcoming, for those who
>> really need it; certainly there are hints that Windows is
>> being used for development of various peripheral software
>> surrounding the card proper.
>>
>> Couple this with a modified variant of
>> [url]http://www.homebrewcpu.com/[/url] (AFAICT he doesn't have a PCI
>> bus) and one could get into a very weird, but free, space.[/color]
>
> I think you are too old school and don't really know what modern video
> cards can do.
>
> The whole project is ridiculous.
>
> "Open" or "Closed" means nothing. NVidia or ATI really don't care what
> you use your card to display ... in 320x200 on this new "card" or
> 2048x1600 or whatever in blazing 3d on a HD widescreen big screen at 120
> fps with 16xAA etc etc etc .... etc etc on a modern 8800GT or whatever.[/color]

NVidia and ATI may be liable under contemplated (if
not already implemented!) statutes for providing the
capability of displaying copyrighted media without
proper authorization, in a manner similar to ISPs being
held responsible for transmitting that content without
proper authorization.

We may have to label OpenVGA efforts illegal, to properly
support DRM.

Can't be too careful nowadays.

--
#191, [email]ewill3@earthlink.net[/email]
Been there, done that, didn't get the T-shirt.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url]