On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:38:37 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:

> The Asus EEE seems to be doing fine (as it should--it looks like a nice
> little system).

Where I live, they can't keep it in stock.
Nice system it is.

> The problem here is Everex. They seem to think that they can just throw
> together a crappy system (this isn't their first...there was that gPC
> thing they sold cheaply at Wal-Mart) and it will be OK, because (1) it
> is cheap, and (2) Linux advocates will overlook all its flaws because it
> has Linux on it.


But it's not just Everex.
It's Lenovo who release a piece of Linux garbage that barely works.
It;s the OLPC which has totally mismanaged distribution chains.

> It's odd that Linux advocates embrace these crappy computers as a way to
> showcase Linux to the general population.

We keep hearing over an over again how Linux laptops, cheap (inexpensive if
you will) Linux laptops are the future yet each one turns out to be worse
than the one before it.

What's going on?

> If you were, say, an
> appliance maker, and you wanted to showcase your new line of kitchen
> appliances by holding an open house in a house equipped with your wares,
> you wouldn't go find a rundown shack with a weed infested jungle in
> place of a lawn, and invite people there to see your great kitchen
> appliances, would you? Of course not. You'd have a very nice house,
> with an immaculate lawn, in a lovely neighborhood, with everything great
> inside. You want people to go away remembering the whole experience as
> great, and some of that transfers to the appliances you were promoting.

Exactly!!
Starbucks Cafe isn't any better than Chock Full Of Nuts but it markets
itslef better and cleans up the rough edges.
CFN....cheap seats, dirty counters and sticky sugar dispensers.
Starbucks....all first class. Clean and nice.
The cafe is the same, but the experience is totally different.
In fact IMHO CFN is better cafe than Starbucks, buy a lot.


> When I want to show someone that there are good alternatives to Windows,
> I don't look for the crappiest non-Windows machine I can find to show
> them. I show them something like an iMac or a PowerBook.

Bingo.


> Just look around. Nearly everyone who successfully promotes something
> pitches it as upscale, not as something to use when you can't afford
> something good.

Yep.
Take a look at the current Mercury Car commercials.
"you have to put Mercury on your list"....
Microsoft iSync etc..

It sells...


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

In article ,
Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.
>

Great Ghu, where do you get this stuff? Linux is so popular
in the data center space that my biggest problem is talking people OUT
of it when they should be using a commercial operating system.

Like, say, Windows...

On Feb 23, 9:38 pm, Tim Smith wrote:

> The problem here is Everex. They seem to think that they can just throw
> together a crappy system (this isn't their first...there was that gPC
> thing they sold cheaply at Wal-Mart) and it will be OK, because (1) it
> is cheap, and (2) Linux advocates will overlook all its flaws because it
> has Linux on it.

So Jack Tramiel and his inept offspring are alive and well. :-p

Moshe Goldfarb :



> As someone involved in the arts, including advertising, that comes as no
> surprise although I had not heard that one before.
>
> Advertising people will tell you that their job is selling things to people
> that don't need them.

No, it's informing those who need/want it.

> The problem with Linux is not only do people not need it, people hate it.

I disagree.

> How do you market something that is free?

If free is a problem, make it not free.

> How can you get people to use something that is free?

Make it useful.

> Simple answer is, if it is good enough the people will use it.

Yep!

> Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.

Nope, they embrace it if it's useful.

--
This PORCUPINE knows his ZIPCODE ... And he has "VISA"!!

www.websterscafe.com

the wharf rat :
> In article ,
> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:



>>Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.
>>
>
> Great Ghu, where do you get this stuff? Linux is so popular
> in the data center space that my biggest problem is talking people OUT
> of it when they should be using a commercial operating system.
>
> Like, say, Windows...

Maybe you know my wise old Eas Indian friend, Mr. Binder Dundat. One of
my more popular products is a linux based Windows Terminal Server
client.

--
I guess I was punk once.

www.websterscafe.com

Handover Phist writes:

> Moshe Goldfarb :
>
>
>
>> As someone involved in the arts, including advertising, that comes as no
>> surprise although I had not heard that one before.
>>
>> Advertising people will tell you that their job is selling things to people
>> that don't need them.
>
> No, it's informing those who need/want it.

Don't be so ridiculous. Advertising goes out to many more people who
want or need it. The job of an advert is to convince people that they
want something.

>
>> The problem with Linux is not only do people not need it, people hate it.
>
> I disagree.
>
>> How do you market something that is free?
>
> If free is a problem, make it not free.

Enough people are doing just that.

>
>> How can you get people to use something that is free?
>
> Make it useful.

So you are saying it's not useful for the vast majority?

>
>> Simple answer is, if it is good enough the people will use it.
>
> Yep!

Nope. If it's good enough AND offers advantages over what people are
used to.

>
>> Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.
>
> Nope, they embrace it if it's useful.

The figures tend to disagree. A tiny minority of people use Linux on the desktop.

"Moshe Goldfarb" wrote in message
news:hyom339okvku$.1hyw4hoj8t6gs$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>
> As someone involved in the arts, including advertising, that comes as no
> surprise although I had not heard that one before.
>
> Advertising people will tell you that their job is selling things to
> people
> that don't need them.
>
> The problem with Linux is not only do people not need it, people hate it.
>
> How do you market something that is free?
> How can you get people to use something that is free?
>
> Simple answer is, if it is good enough the people will use it.
>
> Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.
>
They don't really run from it, they mostly just stay with what they have
since they do not understand the value proposition.

In commercial channels, computers are still considered tools and are subject
to technical selling which is mainly an evaluation of the feature, function,
and benefit of the product. The benefits are not measured by the cost
alone, they are measured by the difference between what you think you gain
and what you pay. If something that is free gives you $50 of savings
elsewhere and something that is $100 gives you that and another $400 in
savings elsewhere, the $100 product is much more desirable since your gain
is $450 rather than merely $50. Of course that requires the vendor to work
a lot at educating the customer so that he actually believes that sales
pitch and Microsoft and their partners have a lot of feet on the street
doing just that. The Linux interests have people like Shestowitz spamming
some obscure kafee klatch newsgroup with a couple of toadies chanting
"Amen,Brother Roy!"

Apple has been effective in re-inventing their PCs as entertainment and
personal amusement devices akin to the iPod, etc.. That is a very cool move
on their part and they should be commended for it. They have successfully
overcome quite a bit of what might block a consumer from contemplating a
change from Wintel to Mactel and Apple's sales figures show that. They have
a fairly differentiated product and they are telling people about it.
That's the old fashioned way to success.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>
>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>> machine.
>
> It is.
> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.

Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits on
a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?

Charlie

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:18:21 +0000, Charlie Wilkes wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>
>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>> machine.
>>
>> It is.
>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>
> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?

He read an article somewhere where some person managed to install Windows
on it. Now in his mind, EVERYONE is doing it!

--
Stephan
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
君の事忘れたときがないから

Hadron :
> Handover Phist writes:
>
>> Moshe Goldfarb :
>>
>>
>>
>>> As someone involved in the arts, including advertising, that comes as no
>>> surprise although I had not heard that one before.
>>>
>>> Advertising people will tell you that their job is selling things to people
>>> that don't need them.
>>
>> No, it's informing those who need/want it.
>
> Don't be so ridiculous. Advertising goes out to many more people who
> want or need it. The job of an advert is to convince people that they
> want something.

You're looking for an argument, okay. The job of an advert is to inform
people who have a need that that need can be filled, even if they dont
know that they have that need. It's different from shoving **** down
peoples throats.

>>
>>> The problem with Linux is not only do people not need it, people hate it.
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>>> How do you market something that is free?
>>
>> If free is a problem, make it not free.
>
> Enough people are doing just that.

For a reason, there's a market. I 'sell' Linux systems for pretty good
coin. It aint free when I'm supporting it!

>>
>>> How can you get people to use something that is free?
>>
>> Make it useful.
>
> So you are saying it's not useful for the vast majority?

No.

>>
>>> Simple answer is, if it is good enough the people will use it.
>>
>> Yep!
>
> Nope. If it's good enough AND offers advantages over what people are
> used to.

BINGO! Linux systems offer this! Portability, flexibilty, and a complete
cornucopia of software at your fingertips! All free for download and
wont get you tossed in jail if you try to do something creative.

Wait, you're *used* to something? Forget it then, I cant help you.

That sounds like a load of horse apples to me. What you're used to?
C'mon. Most folks spend their days doing the same old crap and trying to
think of *new* ways to do the same old crap that will be faster or
automated. IE: **** they're not used to.

>>
>>> Evidently Linux is not good enough because people seem to run from it.
>>
>> Nope, they embrace it if it's useful.
>
> The figures tend to disagree. A tiny minority of people use Linux on the desktop.

Lies, damned lies....

--
God made the world in six days, and was arrested on the seventh.

www.websterscafe.com

In article ,
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> > Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>
> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits on
> a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?

Well, the fact that Asus sells a Windows version right now in Japan, and
has stated that they will release it in the US, are some big clues.

XP easily fits on a 4 gig system.

--
--Tim Smith

Charlie Wilkes writes:

> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>
>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>> machine.
>>
>> It is.
>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>
> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits on
> a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?

You should stop listening to COLA posters. And learn where google
is. And as for the last part of your sentence, if you don't know or can
not guess why people would put Windows on it then you're in the right
place :-;

Stephan Rose writes:

> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:18:21 +0000, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>>> machine.
>>>
>>> It is.
>>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>>
>> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
>> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>
> He read an article somewhere where some person managed to install Windows
> on it. Now in his mind, EVERYONE is doing it!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/24/a...s-xp-standard/

Handover Phist writes:

> Hadron :
>> Handover Phist writes:
>>
>>> Moshe Goldfarb :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As someone involved in the arts, including advertising, that comes as no
>>>> surprise although I had not heard that one before.
>>>>
>>>> Advertising people will tell you that their job is selling things to people
>>>> that don't need them.
>>>
>>> No, it's informing those who need/want it.
>>
>> Don't be so ridiculous. Advertising goes out to many more people who
>> want or need it. The job of an advert is to convince people that they
>> want something.
>
> You're looking for an argument, okay. The job of an advert is to inform
> people who have a need that that need can be filled, even if they dont
> know that they have that need.

So you agree. Good.

Often the advert creates the need too. A need is not always there before
seeing the advert ..... If we were to evaluate what we really "need"
then a lot of the junk we own could be thrown away.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:14:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:

> Charlie Wilkes writes:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>>> machine.
>>>
>>> It is.
>>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>>
>> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
>> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>
> You should stop listening to COLA posters. And learn where google is.
> And as for the last part of your sentence, if you don't know or can not
> guess why people would put Windows on it then you're in the right place
> :-;

Think about it. What are people going to use this thing for? They will
take it on the road to browse the web, send/receive email, etc. I use
Linux and XP both, and for that stuff, one is the same as the other.

People need Windows for particular software packages, the kind no one
would use on a machine like this anyway. Not too many people will make a
DVD of their kid's birthday party with a 900mhz CPU.

The Eee PC is a cool idea that isn't fully mature yet. I have read some
reviews, and I can see room for improving the interface. But Windows
will just add to costs and limit the ability of the developers to tweak
the OS for that particular platform.

BUT, having said all that, from a user's POV, extending XP's lifespan is
probably the next best thing to developing Linux as a Windows alternative.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes writes:

> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:14:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>> Charlie Wilkes writes:
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> It is.
>>>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>>>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>>>
>>> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
>>> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>>
>> You should stop listening to COLA posters. And learn where google is.
>> And as for the last part of your sentence, if you don't know or can not
>> guess why people would put Windows on it then you're in the right place
>> :-;
>
> Think about it. What are people going to use this thing for? They will
> take it on the road to browse the web, send/receive email, etc. I use
> Linux and XP both, and for that stuff, one is the same as the other.

To an extent I agree. But people want Windows. They want to be able to
sync their phone and pda - all of which is painful if not downright
impossible on Linux.

>
> People need Windows for particular software packages, the kind no one
> would use on a machine like this anyway. Not too many people will make a
> DVD of their kid's birthday party with a 900mhz CPU.

You think there are no "low power" apps which people use and would use
on this pc? Wrong. Sorry. People ARE installing XP on it. People DO want
XP on it. I don't necessarily agree but others seem to want it,

>
> The Eee PC is a cool idea that isn't fully mature yet. I have read some
> reviews, and I can see room for improving the interface. But Windows
> will just add to costs and limit the ability of the developers to tweak
> the OS for that particular platform.

People dont care about tweaking the OS. They want the apps they are used
to.

>
> BUT, having said all that, from a user's POV, extending XP's lifespan is
> probably the next best thing to developing Linux as a Windows alternative.

Agreed.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:29:01 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:

> In article ,
> Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>> > Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>>
>> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
>> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>
> Well, the fact that Asus sells a Windows version right now in Japan, and
> has stated that they will release it in the US, are some big clues.
>
> XP easily fits on a 4 gig system.
>
Sure... get rid of the hibernation file, minimize restore points, make
sure you delete all the crap generated by Windows update... it can be
made to work with a bit of effort. Or you can run a Linux distro
tailored for good performance on systems with limited resources.

Charlie

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:18:21 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>
>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>> machine.
>>
>> It is.
>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>
> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits on
> a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>
> Charlie

It's all over the net.
Open your mind and you might find it.

http://www.mahalo.com/Installing_Win...on_Asus_Eee_PC

http://www.eeeguides.com/2007/11/ins...usb-thumb.html

and so forth....

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:54:37 +0100, Hadron wrote:

> Charlie Wilkes writes:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:14:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Wilkes writes:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:28:54 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:35:07 GMT, Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just one cycle back in this thread you agreed the Eee PC is a nice
>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is.
>>>>> Most people are wiping Linux and installing Windows on it though and
>>>>> Asus is releasing a Windows version shortly.
>>>>
>>>> Bah. Where do you get this information? What version of Windows fits
>>>> on a 4gb flash drive? And what is the payoff?
>>>
>>> You should stop listening to COLA posters. And learn where google is.
>>> And as for the last part of your sentence, if you don't know or can not
>>> guess why people would put Windows on it then you're in the right place
>>> :-;
>>
>> Think about it. What are people going to use this thing for? They will
>> take it on the road to browse the web, send/receive email, etc. I use
>> Linux and XP both, and for that stuff, one is the same as the other.
>
> To an extent I agree. But people want Windows. They want to be able to
> sync their phone and pda - all of which is painful if not downright
> impossible on Linux.
>
>>
>> People need Windows for particular software packages, the kind no one
>> would use on a machine like this anyway. Not too many people will make a
>> DVD of their kid's birthday party with a 900mhz CPU.
>
> You think there are no "low power" apps which people use and would use
> on this pc? Wrong. Sorry. People ARE installing XP on it. People DO want
> XP on it. I don't necessarily agree but others seem to want it,
>
>>
>> The Eee PC is a cool idea that isn't fully mature yet. I have read some
>> reviews, and I can see room for improving the interface. But Windows
>> will just add to costs and limit the ability of the developers to tweak
>> the OS for that particular platform.
>
> People dont care about tweaking the OS. They want the apps they are used
> to.
>
>>
>> BUT, having said all that, from a user's POV, extending XP's lifespan is
>> probably the next best thing to developing Linux as a Windows alternative.
>
> Agreed.

Exactly....

I agree that these machines are designed for web browsing, lite office
work, on the road kind of stuff but people want Windows.
They don't want Linux.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/