[Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD - Linux

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  1. [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication plants
    in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in the
    form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/23/139228

    I bet you won't see Roy reporting the "misdeeds" of Sony on this one...

  2. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:45:39 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch scribbled down:

    > "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    > may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    > reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication plants
    > in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in the
    > form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."
    >
    > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/23/139228
    >
    > I bet you won't see Roy reporting the "misdeeds" of Sony on this one...


    What makes you think this was illegal? From what I recall (could be wrong)
    is that Toshiba pledged about $100 million to various studios to release
    movies in it's HD-DVD format. And Sony did the same. This stuff happens.

    If Sony offers to sell some fab plants and Toshiba agrees to buy them and
    this is all OK'd by lawyers and reported in the press then where's this
    illegal doing?



    --
    Ubuntu Linux
    13:54:02 up 5 days, 16:21, 3 users, load average: 0.48, 0.24, 0.16

    Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose.


    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:56:00 -0500, Jon Nesbit wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:45:39 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch scribbled down:
    >
    >> "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    >> may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    >> reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication plants
    >> in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in the
    >> form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."
    >>
    >> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/23/139228
    >>
    >> I bet you won't see Roy reporting the "misdeeds" of Sony on this one...

    >
    > What makes you think this was illegal?


    Actually, I don't. I was being sarcastic, and posting as if I were Roy to
    illustrate the point.

    > From what I recall (could be wrong)
    > is that Toshiba pledged about $100 million to various studios to release
    > movies in it's HD-DVD format. And Sony did the same. This stuff happens.


    I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.

    > If Sony offers to sell some fab plants and Toshiba agrees to buy them and
    > this is all OK'd by lawyers and reported in the press then where's this
    > illegal doing?


    Again, i don't really believe so. However, if it were Microsoft doing
    this, Roy would be on it like a hot potato calling it illegal, fraudulent,
    corrupt, or any number of other things.

    On the other hand, Toshiba's partners could well sue Toshiba for bad faith,
    or breach of contract or others for it.

  4. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    In article <192qbmqq8g3tw$.dlg@funkenbusch.com>,
    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    > may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    > reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication plants
    > in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in the
    > form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."


    This brings up a point that Roy seems to usually miss--which leads to
    many of his errors. Out in the real world, companies can be friends and
    enemies *at* *the* *same* *time*.

    Sony and Toshiba were on opposite sides of the HD format war. Yet the
    Cell processor, which is vital to Sony's PS3 (and so indirectly to
    Sony's strategy to beat Toshiba on HD formats) was a jointly developed
    by IBM, Sony, *and* *Toshiba*.

    You see this pattern all over the place in technology industries. IBM
    and Sun are opposite Microsoft on document formats. But IBM and
    Microsoft are close partners in many other areas. Microsoft, IBM, and
    Sun all work together and get alone well in web services standards.

    And you see this with employees. Down in the trenches, especially in
    places like Silicon Valley, people jump from company to enemy company
    all the time. At the executive level, this is even more prevalent.

    Roy's view is that companies are kind of like countries were during the
    cold war. Two companies are either BFFs, or KOS to each other. And
    anyone who once worked for the other side is forever under suspicion.

    It just doesn't work like that, as the Sony/Toshiba relationships over
    HD formats and the Cell processor nicely illustrate. Until Roy adjusts
    his world view to match reality, he will continue to be wrong far more
    often then he is right.


    --
    --Tim Smith

  5. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    Tim Smith writes:

    > In article <192qbmqq8g3tw$.dlg@funkenbusch.com>,
    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >> "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    >> may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    >> reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication plants
    >> in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in the
    >> form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."

    >
    > This brings up a point that Roy seems to usually miss--which leads to
    > many of his errors. Out in the real world, companies can be friends and
    > enemies *at* *the* *same* *time*.
    >
    > Sony and Toshiba were on opposite sides of the HD format war. Yet the
    > Cell processor, which is vital to Sony's PS3 (and so indirectly to
    > Sony's strategy to beat Toshiba on HD formats) was a jointly developed
    > by IBM, Sony, *and* *Toshiba*.
    >
    > You see this pattern all over the place in technology industries. IBM
    > and Sun are opposite Microsoft on document formats. But IBM and
    > Microsoft are close partners in many other areas. Microsoft, IBM, and
    > Sun all work together and get alone well in web services standards.
    >
    > And you see this with employees. Down in the trenches, especially in
    > places like Silicon Valley, people jump from company to enemy company
    > all the time. At the executive level, this is even more prevalent.
    >
    > Roy's view is that companies are kind of like countries were during the
    > cold war. Two companies are either BFFs, or KOS to each other. And
    > anyone who once worked for the other side is forever under suspicion.
    >
    > It just doesn't work like that, as the Sony/Toshiba relationships over
    > HD formats and the Cell processor nicely illustrate. Until Roy adjusts
    > his world view to match reality, he will continue to be wrong far more
    > often then he is right.


    Since Roy does not have, and is likely never to have, a job, then his
    views will continue to be uniformed garbage.

  6. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:56:00 -0500, Jon Nesbit wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:45:39 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch scribbled down:
    >>
    >>> "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs
    >>> that may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war.
    >>> Reuters has reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX
    >>> fabrication plants in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is
    >>> a joint venture in the form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony
    >>> Computer Entertainment Inc."
    >>>
    >>> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/23/139228
    >>>
    >>> I bet you won't see Roy reporting the "misdeeds" of Sony on this one...

    >>
    >> What makes you think this was illegal?

    >
    > Actually, I don't. I was being sarcastic, and posting as if I were Roy to
    > illustrate the point.
    >


    At least there was not hostile stake over bid....

    >> From what I recall (could be wrong)
    >> is that Toshiba pledged about $100 million to various studios to release
    >> movies in it's HD-DVD format. And Sony did the same. This stuff happens.

    >
    > I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    >


    Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?

    >> If Sony offers to sell some fab plants and Toshiba agrees to buy them and
    >> this is all OK'd by lawyers and reported in the press then where's this
    >> illegal doing?

    >
    > Again, i don't really believe so. However, if it were Microsoft doing
    > this, Roy would be on it like a hot potato calling it illegal, fraudulent,
    > corrupt, or any number of other things.
    >


    MSFT would just carpet bomb them into submission... That IS the difference.

    > On the other hand, Toshiba's partners could well sue Toshiba for bad
    > faith, or breach of contract or others for it.



    --

    Jerry McBride (jmcbride@mail-on.us)

  7. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    In article <4ob695x4m3.ln2@supertux.my.domain>,
    Jerry McBride wrote:
    > >
    > > I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    > >

    >
    > Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?


    So you can't tell the difference between a bribe and a purchase?



    --
    --Tim Smith

  8. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:47:39 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:

    > In article <4ob695x4m3.ln2@supertux.my.domain>,
    > Jerry McBride wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?

    >
    > So you can't tell the difference between a bribe and a purchase?


    Well, Sony did effectively purchase the market

  9. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > In article <4ob695x4m3.ln2@supertux.my.domain>,
    > Jerry McBride wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?

    >
    > So you can't tell the difference between a bribe and a purchase?


    How was Sony's deal with Toshiba a bribe?

    Sounds like you're being as allusive as you claim Roy is.

    --
    Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day. Much
    of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be funny if
    it weren't so irritating.
    -- Bill Gates, "Why I Hate Spam" in Microsoft PressPass (2003)

  10. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:20:58 -0500, Linonut wrote:

    > * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> In article <4ob695x4m3.ln2@supertux.my.domain>,
    >> Jerry McBride wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> > I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?

    >>
    >> So you can't tell the difference between a bribe and a purchase?

    >
    > How was Sony's deal with Toshiba a bribe?
    >
    > Sounds like you're being as allusive as you claim Roy is.


    "You can buy this chip fab for pennies on the dollar if you give up on
    HD-DVD".

    They bought the plant for $835 Million dollars, which is cheap for a chip
    fab (usually they run around 2-3 billion).

    For example:

    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06..._new_york_fab/

    "AMD is to build a 300mm-wafer fab in Saratoga County, New York. The $3.5bn
    plant will be used to punch out 32nm processors, comments made by senior
    staffers suggest."

    http://www.news.com/AMD-breaks-groun...3-5109686.html

    "The company said it expects to spend $2.4 billion over the next four years
    to construct and later upgrade the plant, dubbed AMD Fab 36."

    http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsid...ive/ti0011.htm

    "The chips made at IBM's new US$2.5 billion fab in East Fishkill, N.Y.,
    will be very, very small - more than 1,000 times thinner than a human
    hair."

  11. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD


    "Tim Smith" wrote in message
    news:reply_in_group-9E4618.12092423022008@news.supernews.com...
    > In article <192qbmqq8g3tw$.dlg@funkenbusch.com>,
    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >> "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    >> may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    >> reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication
    >> plants
    >> in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in
    >> the
    >> form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."

    >
    > This brings up a point that Roy seems to usually miss--which leads to
    > many of his errors. Out in the real world, companies can be friends and
    > enemies *at* *the* *same* *time*.
    >
    > Sony and Toshiba were on opposite sides of the HD format war. Yet the
    > Cell processor, which is vital to Sony's PS3 (and so indirectly to
    > Sony's strategy to beat Toshiba on HD formats) was a jointly developed
    > by IBM, Sony, *and* *Toshiba*.
    >
    > You see this pattern all over the place in technology industries. IBM
    > and Sun are opposite Microsoft on document formats. But IBM and
    > Microsoft are close partners in many other areas. Microsoft, IBM, and
    > Sun all work together and get alone well in web services standards.
    >
    > And you see this with employees. Down in the trenches, especially in
    > places like Silicon Valley, people jump from company to enemy company
    > all the time. At the executive level, this is even more prevalent.
    >
    > Roy's view is that companies are kind of like countries were during the
    > cold war. Two companies are either BFFs, or KOS to each other. And
    > anyone who once worked for the other side is forever under suspicion.
    >
    > It just doesn't work like that, as the Sony/Toshiba relationships over
    > HD formats and the Cell processor nicely illustrate. Until Roy adjusts
    > his world view to match reality, he will continue to be wrong far more
    > often then he is right.


    Excellent points. I wish that everyone would read them and think about this.

    As a former boss once said to me - "Companies don't have friends, they have
    /interests/."



    >
    > --
    > --Tim Smith




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  12. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:08:07 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:

    > "Tim Smith" wrote in message
    > news:reply_in_group-9E4618.12092423022008@news.supernews.com...
    >> In article <192qbmqq8g3tw$.dlg@funkenbusch.com>,
    >> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>> "Was Toshiba paid-off to concede the HD battle? There are some signs that
    >>> may point to this as a direct result of the ended format war. Reuters has
    >>> reported that Sony has agreed to sell it's Cell and RSX fabrication
    >>> plants
    >>> in Japan to Toshiba. The WSJ is reporting that is is a joint venture in
    >>> the
    >>> form of 60% Toshiba,%20 Sony and %20 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc."

    >>
    >> This brings up a point that Roy seems to usually miss--which leads to
    >> many of his errors. Out in the real world, companies can be friends and
    >> enemies *at* *the* *same* *time*.
    >>
    >> Sony and Toshiba were on opposite sides of the HD format war. Yet the
    >> Cell processor, which is vital to Sony's PS3 (and so indirectly to
    >> Sony's strategy to beat Toshiba on HD formats) was a jointly developed
    >> by IBM, Sony, *and* *Toshiba*.
    >>
    >> You see this pattern all over the place in technology industries. IBM
    >> and Sun are opposite Microsoft on document formats. But IBM and
    >> Microsoft are close partners in many other areas. Microsoft, IBM, and
    >> Sun all work together and get alone well in web services standards.
    >>
    >> And you see this with employees. Down in the trenches, especially in
    >> places like Silicon Valley, people jump from company to enemy company
    >> all the time. At the executive level, this is even more prevalent.
    >>
    >> Roy's view is that companies are kind of like countries were during the
    >> cold war. Two companies are either BFFs, or KOS to each other. And
    >> anyone who once worked for the other side is forever under suspicion.
    >>
    >> It just doesn't work like that, as the Sony/Toshiba relationships over
    >> HD formats and the Cell processor nicely illustrate. Until Roy adjusts
    >> his world view to match reality, he will continue to be wrong far more
    >> often then he is right.

    >
    > Excellent points. I wish that everyone would read them and think about this.
    >
    > As a former boss once said to me - "Companies don't have friends, they have
    > /interests/."


    In the world of the wacko Linux zealot however you either agree with them
    in total or you are the enemy.
    Sadly there is little or no compromise to be had with these religious Linux
    cultist's.




    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  13. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:58:23 -0500,
    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:20:58 -0500, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> In article <4ob695x4m3.ln2@supertux.my.domain>,
    >>> Jerry McBride wrote:
    >>>> >
    >>>> > I know, but $400 Million is a pretty big carrot.
    >>>> >
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah... nothing like a 44 BILLION bid... huh?
    >>>
    >>> So you can't tell the difference between a bribe and a purchase?

    >>
    >> How was Sony's deal with Toshiba a bribe?
    >>
    >> Sounds like you're being as allusive as you claim Roy is.

    >
    > "You can buy this chip fab for pennies on the dollar if you give up on
    > HD-DVD".
    >
    > They bought the plant for $835 Million dollars, which is cheap for a chip
    > fab (usually they run around 2-3 billion).
    >
    > For example:
    >
    > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06..._new_york_fab/
    >
    > "AMD is to build a 300mm-wafer fab in Saratoga County, New York. The $3.5bn
    > plant will be used to punch out 32nm processors, comments made by senior
    > staffers suggest."
    >
    > http://www.news.com/AMD-breaks-groun...3-5109686.html
    >
    > "The company said it expects to spend $2.4 billion over the next four years
    > to construct and later upgrade the plant, dubbed AMD Fab 36."
    >
    > http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsid...ive/ti0011.htm
    >
    > "The chips made at IBM's new US$2.5 billion fab in East Fishkill, N.Y.,
    > will be very, very small - more than 1,000 times thinner than a human
    > hair."



    Erik, taking the announced price of four chip fabs and comparing just
    that (without any other data) makes about as much sense as comparing
    just the prices of a corvette, jag, caddy and yugo, and coming to the
    conclusion that the yugo buyer is getting a payoff...



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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe
    what you just said. --William F. Buckley, Jr.

  14. Re: [Roy Schestowitz-like News]Sony illegaly bribes Toshiba to drop HD-DVD

    * Jim Richardson peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >
    > --
    > Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    > I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe
    > what you just said. --William F. Buckley, Jr.


    You have to say it while leaning over to the side so far that you are
    in danger of tipping over. Also need the tag.

    --
    Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day.
    Much of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be
    funny if it weren't so exciting.
    -- Bill Gates

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