Linux on the desktop - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux on the desktop - Linux ; On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:00:00 -0700, Snit wrote: > "Rick" stated in post > 13qqbav8886enc7@news.supernews.com on 2/8/08 9:34 PM: > >>>> AND AGAIN, go look up herd mentality, inertia and network effects. >>> >>> They are all under the ...

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Thread: Linux on the desktop

  1. Re: Linux on the desktop

    On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:00:00 -0700, Snit wrote:

    > "Rick" stated in post
    > 13qqbav8886enc7@news.supernews.com on 2/8/08 9:34 PM:
    >
    >>>> AND AGAIN, go look up herd mentality, inertia and network effects.
    >>>
    >>> They are all under the definition of things you will try to use to
    >>> excuse the fact that Linux distros are hardly used even when they are
    >>> given away.

    >>
    >> And you still show you have no idea how Microsoft got, and maintained
    >> their monopoly power.

    >
    > Nor have I talked about the process used to make cheese.
    >
    > Care to talk about Linux or are you going to obsess over Microsoft?


    Microsoft's monopoly power has a direct on the Linux community.

    --
    Rick

  2. Re: Linux on the desktop

    On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 07:20:02 +0000, Handover Phist wrote:
    (snip_
    > http://www.websterscafe.com/Screenshot.png. Sorry, didn't edit it and
    > it's a big old dual monitor shot.

    (snip)

    Nice desktop. I always liked Gnome icons. What theme are you using? I
    found an icon set called Gnome-mix for KDE,and then massaged it.

    --
    Rick

  3. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Rick" stated in post 13qr6ikbus9ii35@news.supernews.com
    on 2/9/08 5:19 AM:

    > On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:00:00 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >> "Rick" stated in post
    >> 13qqbav8886enc7@news.supernews.com on 2/8/08 9:34 PM:
    >>
    >>>>> AND AGAIN, go look up herd mentality, inertia and network effects.
    >>>>
    >>>> They are all under the definition of things you will try to use to
    >>>> excuse the fact that Linux distros are hardly used even when they are
    >>>> given away.
    >>>
    >>> And you still show you have no idea how Microsoft got, and maintained
    >>> their monopoly power.

    >>
    >> Nor have I talked about the process used to make cheese.
    >>
    >> Care to talk about Linux or are you going to obsess over Microsoft?

    >
    > Microsoft's monopoly power has a direct on the Linux community.


    Sure, but why obsess over it? Why not focus on what you and others in the
    Linux community can change - Linux. You suffer from an extreme victim
    mentality.

    Heck, my favored OS is also effected by MS's monopoly, but I focus on what
    it does well and where it needs to improve... I do not whine about how the
    big bad MS is keeping it down.


    --
    "If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
    - Anatole France




  4. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Rick" stated in post 13qr6fads4lgrd4@news.supernews.com
    on 2/9/08 5:17 AM:

    > On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:59:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >> "Rick" stated in post
    >> 13qqb98fd2u80ad@news.supernews.com on 2/8/08 9:33 PM:
    >>
    >>> And again you show you have no idea how Microsoft go, and maintained
    >>> their monopoly power.

    >>
    >> Linux.
    >> Free.
    >> Runs on almost anything.
    >> Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs Less than 1% of the only
    >> market Linus really cares about.
    >>
    >> Compared to:
    >>
    >> OS X
    >> Not free.
    >> Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware. Offered by
    >> only one relatively small OEM Around 10% of the the same market
    >>
    >> MS is not the full reason Linux is doing so poorly on the desktop,

    >
    > No, it isn't, but it a very large, if not the largest reason.


    And yet Apple, with the above challenges, is not as badly effected - getting
    about 10 times the desktop user base as *all* distros of Linux... a *free*
    product which is sold by the two biggest OEMs.

    Your depth of knowledge is very, very weak here, Rick... you are just
    whining about your victim mentality.

    >> Rick... but it is people such as yourself who refuse to look at Linux
    >> itself for the answer that help to hold it back. If you would be honest
    >> about the problems with Linux you could do a lot more to help it grow.

    >
    > ... CSS isn't OSS. ...


    CSS is not software at all, Rick. I thought you claims to know about basic
    web technologies.

    >> But you won't. Oh well, I am sure (based on emails *completely* sure)
    >> that others get the points I am making and that it is helping people in
    >> the Linux community understand some of the needs better. I am making a
    >> difference, even if only a small one, in helping to better and to
    >> advocate for Linux.
    >>
    >> Your running from the facts simply does not do that.


    I snipped your grade school insults. They are not of interest.



    --
    Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...21217782777472


  5. Re: Linux on the desktop

    amicus_curious wrote:

    >>

    > All of these are the same thing, i.e. you gotta be a computer geek to
    > get onto Linux on the desktop.


    Absolutely NOT! Rubbish. You need to be far more "geeky" to a) install
    Windows b) install all the AV and antispyware apps you need and c)
    install all the productivity apps you need. All that lot /can/ take up
    to SEVERAL hours - a normal install of something like Ubuntu is about 30
    minutes at most.

  6. Re: Linux on the desktop

    Gordon wrote:
    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >>>

    >> All of these are the same thing, i.e. you gotta be a computer geek to
    >> get onto Linux on the desktop.

    >
    > Absolutely NOT! Rubbish. You need to be far more "geeky" to a) install
    > Windows b) install all the AV and antispyware apps you need and c)
    > install all the productivity apps you need. All that lot /can/ take up
    > to SEVERAL hours - a normal install of something like Ubuntu is about
    > 30 minutes at most.


    And look what you have when you're done installing Ubuntu. ugh.




  7. Re: Linux on the desktop

    Snit wrote:

    >
    > On Dell's site:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    But NOT, you notice on any of the main Dell product pages - you have to
    know about Linux FIRST.....

  8. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Gordon" stated in post
    foko3t$37k$2@news.mixmin.net on 2/9/08 10:32 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> On Dell's site:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > But NOT, you notice on any of the main Dell product pages - you have to
    > know about Linux FIRST.....


    Sure, they focus on approximately 90% of the user base over the about 1%...
    makes sense, really. Why would they not?


    --
    Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
    walnut paneling and an all leather interior.




  9. Re: Linux on the desktop

    On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:32:41 +0000, Gordon wrote:

    > Snit wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> On Dell's site:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > But NOT, you notice on any of the main Dell product pages - you have to
    > know about Linux FIRST.....


    Makes you wonder about Dell's commitment to Linux now doesn't it?

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  10. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Moshe Goldfarb" stated in post
    1dts6dkjcby1g$.kcfmbtb8m4c6$.dlg@40tude.net on 2/9/08 10:43 AM:

    > On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:32:41 +0000, Gordon wrote:
    >
    >> Snit wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> On Dell's site:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> But NOT, you notice on any of the main Dell product pages - you have to
    >> know about Linux FIRST.....

    >
    > Makes you wonder about Dell's commitment to Linux now doesn't it?


    Not really... the fact that they give such attention to a product that has
    struggled to get 1% desktop user base when given for *free* is actually
    pretty amazing. I have read Michael Dell is a Linux fan though I do not
    know the details.


    --
    The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of
    limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and
    great nations. - David Friedman


  11. Re: Linux on the desktop

    DFS wrote:
    > Gordon wrote:
    >> amicus_curious wrote:
    >>
    >>> All of these are the same thing, i.e. you gotta be a computer geek to
    >>> get onto Linux on the desktop.

    >> Absolutely NOT! Rubbish. You need to be far more "geeky" to a) install
    >> Windows b) install all the AV and antispyware apps you need and c)
    >> install all the productivity apps you need. All that lot /can/ take up
    >> to SEVERAL hours - a normal install of something like Ubuntu is about
    >> 30 minutes at most.

    >
    > And look what you have when you're done installing Ubuntu.


    An OS innured to viruses and spyware, a fully-functional Office Suite
    (which using my Systems Accountant hat) is at least the equivalent of MS
    Office 2002, an email client that will do most of what Outlook does,
    (including using MS Exchange server), several web browsers to choose
    from, (Windows you only get ONE), built-in CD/DVD burning which allows
    you to burn disks fron iso images, (the built-in burning app in XP does
    NOT), etc etc etc.
    What more do you want?

  12. Re: Linux on the desktop

    On Feb 8, 12:49*pm, Gordon wrote:
    > Snit wrote:
    > > but clearly there is something amiss with the Linux system and the Linuxmodel for it to
    > > have so much trouble breaking into a large market where it *gives* its
    > > product away.

    >
    > it's not Linux that is the problem - it's been the predatory
    > monopolistic economic blackmail of MS in the past that is the problem -
    > they have locked down their customers (OEMs) so much that there's been
    > NO *free competition at all. In other words, MS said to the OEMs -
    > Windows or nothing. Thus the vast majority of Joe Public don't KNOW
    > about or have EVER seen Linux. because MS has denied them that freedom.


    It's not me, it's you.

  13. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "cc" stated in post
    ea9966d8-4681-4966-8102-a75dd78c8764...oglegroups.com on 2/9/08
    11:15 AM:

    > On Feb 8, 12:49*pm, Gordon wrote:
    >> Snit wrote:
    >>> but clearly there is something amiss with the Linux system and the Linux
    >>> model for it to
    >>> have so much trouble breaking into a large market where it *gives* its
    >>> product away.

    >>
    >> it's not Linux that is the problem - it's been the predatory
    >> monopolistic economic blackmail of MS in the past that is the problem -
    >> they have locked down their customers (OEMs) so much that there's been
    >> NO *free competition at all. In other words, MS said to the OEMs -
    >> Windows or nothing. Thus the vast majority of Joe Public don't KNOW
    >> about or have EVER seen Linux. because MS has denied them that freedom.

    >
    > It's not me, it's you.


    The idea that it is all about MS and not about Linux is clearly false - as
    shown by OS X:

    Linux.
    Free.
    Runs on almost anything.
    Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs
    Less than 1% of the only market Linus really cares about.

    Compared to:

    OS X
    Not free.
    Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware.
    Offered by only one relatively small OEM
    Around 10% of the the same market

    Linux manages to get about 1/10th the desktop user base as Apple does...
    even with all the advantages Linux has over OS X.

    --
    "Innovation is not about saying yes to everything. It's about saying NO to
    all but the most crucial features." -- Steve Jobs




  14. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Gordon" stated in post
    fokq8i$4qn$1@news.mixmin.net on 2/9/08 11:09 AM:

    > DFS wrote:
    >> Gordon wrote:
    >>> amicus_curious wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> All of these are the same thing, i.e. you gotta be a computer geek to
    >>>> get onto Linux on the desktop.
    >>> Absolutely NOT! Rubbish. You need to be far more "geeky" to a) install
    >>> Windows b) install all the AV and antispyware apps you need and c)
    >>> install all the productivity apps you need. All that lot /can/ take up
    >>> to SEVERAL hours - a normal install of something like Ubuntu is about
    >>> 30 minutes at most.

    >>
    >> And look what you have when you're done installing Ubuntu.

    >
    > An OS innured to viruses and spyware, a fully-functional Office Suite
    > (which using my Systems Accountant hat) is at least the equivalent of MS
    > Office 2002, an email client that will do most of what Outlook does,
    > (including using MS Exchange server), several web browsers to choose
    > from, (Windows you only get ONE)


    I would have to check, but I think the Ubuntu CD comes with only one as
    well.

    > , built-in CD/DVD burning which allows
    > you to burn disks fron iso images, (the built-in burning app in XP does
    > NOT), etc etc etc.
    > What more do you want?




    --
    Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
    walnut paneling and an all leather interior.




  15. Re: Linux on the desktop

    Snit wrote:

    > Linux.
    > Free.
    > Runs on almost anything.
    > Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs
    > Less than 1% of the only market Linus really cares about.
    >


    You still don't get it, do you? MS has SO dominated the PC OS market
    since the inception of Windows 3, mainly by monopolistic and economic
    blackmail, that although the OEMs ARE now offering Linux as a desktop
    alternative, the vast majority of purchasers have been SO brainwashed
    over the last 20 years that they don't even THINK they have a choice.



    > Compared to:
    >
    > OS X
    > Not free.
    > Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware.
    > Offered by only one relatively small OEM
    > Around 10% of the the same market
    >


    Again MACS already had a very nice niche market well BEFORE Quark etc
    was ported to Windows...MACS used to have software that was NOT
    available on PC.....

  16. Re: Linux on the desktop

    Snit wrote:

    >
    > I would have to check, but I think the Ubuntu CD comes with only one as
    > well.
    >


    You may be right actually, but certainly Kubuntu comes with more then one...

  17. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Gordon" stated in post
    fokr9s$5ig$1@news.mixmin.net on 2/9/08 11:27 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >
    >> Linux.
    >> Free.
    >> Runs on almost anything.
    >> Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs
    >> Less than 1% of the only market Linus really cares about.
    >>

    >
    > You still don't get it, do you? MS has SO dominated the PC OS market
    > since the inception of Windows 3, mainly by monopolistic and economic
    > blackmail, that although the OEMs ARE now offering Linux as a desktop
    > alternative, the vast majority of purchasers have been SO brainwashed
    > over the last 20 years that they don't even THINK they have a choice.


    First, I *do* get that MS has dominated the desktop market. Sure I get
    that. I also understand how Linux, which is given away for free and runs on
    almost any hardware is stuck at 1% user base on the only area its creator
    cares about (which is not to say others do not care about other areas nor
    that it is not a success elsewhere!)

    I also know how sad it is that so many Linux users suffer from a victim
    mentality where they focus externally on the problems of Linux and refuse to
    look at Linux itself - as I do. Linux is great and has amazing potential,
    but until people care to focus on how to improve Linux in these areas of
    grand weakness it will never grow on the desktop.

    I am happy to see, however, that some people in the Linux community are
    taking this more seriously... see Ubuntu and the attempts to get KDE and
    Gnome programs to play together better. I encourage those things... but
    they will get much less support if people make cop outs such as those you
    and Rick do and refuse to look at the actual primary problem.

    >> Compared to:
    >>
    >> OS X
    >> Not free.
    >> Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware.
    >> Offered by only one relatively small OEM
    >> Around 10% of the the same market
    >>

    >
    > Again MACS already had a very nice niche market well BEFORE Quark etc
    > was ported to Windows...MACS used to have software that was NOT
    > available on PC.....


    Sure, Apple has some advantages over Linux... but the downsides of cost and
    limited hardware are *huge* in comparison to what you mention. Clearly
    huge. It is not like Linux was introduced last week!

    Oh, and Linux has software not generally available on Windows. Really.


    --
    "If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson




  18. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Gordon" stated in post
    fokrgs$5jd$1@news.mixmin.net on 2/9/08 11:30 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I would have to check, but I think the Ubuntu CD comes with only one as
    >> well.
    >>

    >
    > You may be right actually, but certainly Kubuntu comes with more then one...


    Either way, any of the major OSs have multiple free web browsers.


    --
    When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how
    to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not
    beautiful, I know it is wrong. -- R. Buckminster Fuller


  19. Re: Linux on the desktop

    On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:27:03 +0000, Gordon wrote:

    > Snit wrote:
    >
    >> Linux.
    >> Free.
    >> Runs on almost anything.
    >> Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs
    >> Less than 1% of the only market Linus really cares about.
    >>

    >
    > You still don't get it, do you? MS has SO dominated the PC OS market
    > since the inception of Windows 3, mainly by monopolistic and economic
    > blackmail, that although the OEMs ARE now offering Linux as a desktop
    > alternative, the vast majority of purchasers have been SO brainwashed
    > over the last 20 years that they don't even THINK they have a choice.
    >
    >
    >
    >> Compared to:
    >>
    >> OS X
    >> Not free.
    >> Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware.
    >> Offered by only one relatively small OEM
    >> Around 10% of the the same market
    >>

    >
    > Again MACS already had a very nice niche market well BEFORE Quark etc
    > was ported to Windows...MACS used to have software that was NOT
    > available on PC.....


    Apple has always been there.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  20. Re: Linux on the desktop

    "Moshe Goldfarb" stated in post
    1i5quol4sza41$.1bfkxd6j6zvtp.dlg@40tude.net on 2/9/08 12:05 PM:

    > On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:27:03 +0000, Gordon wrote:
    >
    >> Snit wrote:
    >>
    >>> Linux.
    >>> Free.
    >>> Runs on almost anything.
    >>> Offered as an option by the biggest OEMs
    >>> Less than 1% of the only market Linus really cares about.
    >>>

    >>
    >> You still don't get it, do you? MS has SO dominated the PC OS market
    >> since the inception of Windows 3, mainly by monopolistic and economic
    >> blackmail, that although the OEMs ARE now offering Linux as a desktop
    >> alternative, the vast majority of purchasers have been SO brainwashed
    >> over the last 20 years that they don't even THINK they have a choice.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> Compared to:
    >>>
    >>> OS X
    >>> Not free.
    >>> Runs only on relatively high end proprietary hardware.
    >>> Offered by only one relatively small OEM
    >>> Around 10% of the the same market
    >>>

    >>
    >> Again MACS already had a very nice niche market well BEFORE Quark etc
    >> was ported to Windows...MACS used to have software that was NOT
    >> available on PC.....

    >
    > Apple has always been there.


    And yet they do not have 90% share. There goes the idea that he who is
    there first will prevent others from getting more than 1% user base.


    --
    The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
    --Albert Einstein


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