Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows... - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows... - Linux ; Linonut wrote: > * Peter Köhlmann peremptorily fired off this memo: > >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote: >>> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote: >>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes: >>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote: ...

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Thread: Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

  1. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Linonut wrote:

    > * Peter Köhlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:48 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >> < snip >
    >>
    >> Yes, that certainly is it. Hadron and flatfish in a nice "conversation"
    >>
    >> Loook, boys and gals: One of the rare (just 4 to 5 times a day)
    >> occurences where you could see the only two existing "true linux
    >> advocates" agreeing
    >>
    >> Certainly a view to behold

    >
    > God bless you for snipping their bull****, Peter. It is nice not to
    > have to see it.
    >


    And it is a nice example (one of many) of Hadron Quarks "me too" posts.
    He continuously chides people for alleged "me too", when he is in fact the
    one doing it most. And flatfish naturally ("Ain't it the..." and
    other "yes, we two are sooo right" posts).

    In short: Hadron is the worst hypocryte there is in COLA. Flatfish is just
    flatfish, a racist, a liar and a thief. Scum. Filth

    But Hadron naturally decides that the worst filth to be found anywhere is
    just the company he should prefer
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    The trailing edge of software technology.


  2. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Linonut wrote:

    >* Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >> Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >> things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >> changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >> whatever point he's making up?

    >
    >No, Tim. You forget, Microsoft has plenty of time. They can field
    >garbage, and, while improving it to the point of usability, they can
    >afford to support the old stuff for a bit longer.
    >
    >They did it with NT, with 2000, with XP, and they'll do it again with
    >Vista. It may take a bit longer, given that Vista seems to be crappier
    >at the outset than XP was.


    Right. In a healthy, competitive market, a mediocre-to-crappy product
    like Vista would get *hammered* by the competition.

    >In the meantime, they can use to the channel-stuffing numbers to comfort
    >(try to, anyway) the stockholders.
    >
    >Your characterization of the disparate arguments of separate posters is
    >simply specious.


    Classic trolling. Like when some advocates rave about how cool Beryl
    is, while others say that eye-candy is not important, thus making the
    advocates "hypocritical".


  3. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    chrisv :
    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >>In the meantime, they can use to the channel-stuffing numbers to comfort
    >>(try to, anyway) the stockholders.
    >>
    >>Your characterization of the disparate arguments of separate posters is
    >>simply specious.

    >
    > Classic trolling. Like when some advocates rave about how cool Beryl
    > is, while others say that eye-candy is not important, thus making the
    > advocates "hypocritical".


    You're generalising. Some advocates like the eye candy, some like the
    functionality. Fact is, Linux systems are far more flexible than Windows
    systems and kicks ass in both areas.

    --
    Oh, I've seen copies [of Linux Journal] around the terminal room at The Labs.
    -- Dennis Ritchie

    www.websterscafe.com

  4. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    chrisv wrote:

    >>They did it with NT, with 2000, with XP, and they'll do it again with
    >>Vista. It may take a bit longer, given that Vista seems to be crappier
    >>at the outset than XP was.

    >
    >Right. In a healthy, competitive market, a mediocre-to-crappy product
    >like Vista would get *hammered* by the competition.


    The large delay with getting Vista to market should be noted as well.
    Most companies do not have the luxury of simply selling the old
    product for however long it takes to get the new product out, without
    losing significant market share to the competition's more modern
    products.


  5. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Handover Phist wrote:

    > chrisv :
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>In the meantime, they can use to the channel-stuffing numbers to comfort
    >>>(try to, anyway) the stockholders.
    >>>
    >>>Your characterization of the disparate arguments of separate posters is
    >>>simply specious.

    >>
    >> Classic trolling. Like when some advocates rave about how cool Beryl
    >> is, while others say that eye-candy is not important, thus making the
    >> advocates "hypocritical".

    >
    > You're generalising. Some advocates like the eye candy, some like the
    > functionality.


    That was my point, of course. Trolls use illogic to claim hypocrisy where
    none exists.

    > Fact is, Linux systems are far more flexible than Windows
    > systems and kicks ass in both areas.



  6. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:54:50 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Tattoo Vampire writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> You guys!

    >>
    >> But we all luuuuuuuuv you, Hadron.

    >
    > Somewhat worryingly I think some do.
    >
    > One or two of the COLA gang have event sent me emails asking personal
    > things, and some even sign me up for rather dubious HPT/Marti type
    > dating agencies - the little rascals.


    You too huh?

    It's Doug Mentohl off his meds again.
    That guy is one sick puppy.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > But Hadron naturally decides that the worst filth to be found anywhere is
    > just the company he should prefer


    It is well known that surface tension causes turds to clump together.

    --
    Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few
    employers are interested in helping you find yourself.
    -- Bill Gates

  8. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >>* Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>> Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >>> things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >>> changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >>> whatever point he's making up?

    >>
    >>No, Tim. You forget, Microsoft has plenty of time. They can field
    >>garbage, and, while improving it to the point of usability, they can
    >>afford to support the old stuff for a bit longer.
    >>
    >>They did it with NT, with 2000, with XP, and they'll do it again with
    >>Vista. It may take a bit longer, given that Vista seems to be crappier
    >>at the outset than XP was.

    >
    > Right. In a healthy, competitive market, a mediocre-to-crappy product
    > like Vista would get *hammered* by the competition.


    Exactly. And I suspect that, in such a fantasy market, Microsoft would
    not have released so crappy a product. They would not have overreached
    so much. They would have had to develop a compelling business case for
    Vista before embarking on it.

    In the real world, however, their customers have had to inform Microsoft
    that there is no business case for Vista.

    I believe that Vista is evidence that, in the face of the progress of
    Linux and Mac, Microsoft *blinked*.

    >>Your characterization of the disparate arguments of separate posters is
    >>simply specious.

    >
    > Classic trolling. Like when some advocates rave about how cool Beryl
    > is, while others say that eye-candy is not important, thus making the
    > advocates "hypocritical".


    It's a laugh. And it simply makes mockery of Tim's revered pedantry.

    --
    Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient.
    There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.
    -- Bill Gates

  9. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:29:18 -0500, Linonut wrote:

    > * Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> But Hadron naturally decides that the worst filth to be found anywhere is
    >> just the company he should prefer

    >
    > It is well known that surface tension causes turds to clump together.


    Jesus walked amongst the beggars, prostitutes and the unclean.

    Sounds like he found COLA!!!

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  10. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Linonut wrote:

    >* Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> But Hadron naturally decides that the worst filth to be found anywhere is
    >> just the company he should prefer

    >
    >It is well known that surface tension causes turds to clump together.


    Quack sided with the trolls against the advocates from the beginning.
    He and I had this exchange way back in the Fall of '06:


    >Quack wrote:
    >>
    >>chrisv wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Nice friends you got there, Quark. DFS, billwg, ErikF, flatfish, etc.
    >>> Lying scum, each and every one of them.

    >>
    >> Lying scum? There is more truth in one of them than you and your COLA gang.



  11. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Verily I say unto thee, that Peter Köhlmann spake thusly:
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> chrisv writes:


    >>> Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market
    >>> power to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes,
    >>> large business

    >>
    >> And yet ME failed.

    >
    > Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and
    > lots of quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they
    > still have the alternative. And Win98 was still present


    And more importantly, so was Win2K, which is what the savvy Windows
    crowd turned to. Indeed many continue to do so (although I've heard
    that Win2K3 may have supplanted Win2K in that role. I have no personal
    experience with Win2K3).

    Regardless of Microsoft's OS failures, there was always another
    /Microsoft/ OS product to fall back on, that was comparatively
    acceptable (to Windows users). ATM that would be XP, which is why
    MS has such difficulty shifting Vista, a.k.a. WinME2.

    Regardless of which version of Windows is the most current, Microsoft's
    control of OEMs ensures that one form or another of Windows is the
    /default/ OS offered to OEM's customers, and in most cases ... the
    /only/ choice. That is a monopoly position.

    [snip Microsoft's non-core product failures]

    Windows and Office are Microsoft's cash cows, and are uniquely
    responsible for their current monopoly position. Certainly they have
    /tried/ to monopolise other market segments too, such as console gaming,
    portable media, search services and others, and each time (as Timmy
    correctly pointed out) they have failed. Regardless, it is their two
    core products (their /only/ profit making ventures) that ensure they
    retain a monopoly.

    >> Your point is?

    >
    > He has one. You obviously not


    As usual, it seems Timmy is being deliberately obtuse, and Hadron the
    Sheep followed him.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "There would be in the license, a caveat which forbids publishing a
    | distro until it has been approved by an OSS committee." ~ Comrade
    | Hardon Quirk, communist party member.
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    19:59:23 up 49 days, 17:35, 4 users, load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00

  12. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:59:43 +0000, [H]omer wrote:


    > As usual, it seems Timmy is being deliberately obtuse, and Hadron the
    > Sheep followed him.


    You mean like you follow Roy Schestowitz around?

    When are you going to release the source code to your weekly
    comp.os.linux.advocacy statistics program [Homer] ?

    You expect others to do it.
    Why don't you follow your own advice?

    [Homer] = [Hypocrite] != Linux Advocate.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  13. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * [H]omer peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > As usual, it seems Timmy is being deliberately obtuse, and Hadron the
    > Sheep followed him.


    Better get you wellies on (for one reason or another).

    --
    Men rise from one ambition to another: first, they seek to secure themselves
    against attack, and then they attack others.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  14. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    [H]omer wrote:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Peter Köhlmann spake thusly:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> chrisv writes:

    >
    >>>> Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market
    >>>> power to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes,
    >>>> large business
    >>>
    >>> And yet ME failed.

    >>
    >> Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and
    >> lots of quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they
    >> still have the alternative. And Win98 was still present

    >
    > And more importantly, so was Win2K, which is what the savvy Windows
    > crowd turned to. Indeed many continue to do so (although I've heard
    > that Win2K3 may have supplanted Win2K in that role. I have no personal
    > experience with Win2K3).
    >
    > Regardless of Microsoft's OS failures, there was always another
    > /Microsoft/ OS product to fall back on, that was comparatively
    > acceptable (to Windows users). ATM that would be XP, which is why
    > MS has such difficulty shifting Vista, a.k.a. WinME2.
    >
    > Regardless of which version of Windows is the most current, Microsoft's
    > control of OEMs ensures that one form or another of Windows is the
    > /default/ OS offered to OEM's customers, and in most cases ... the
    > /only/ choice. That is a monopoly position.
    >
    > [snip Microsoft's non-core product failures]
    >
    > Windows and Office are Microsoft's cash cows, and are uniquely
    > responsible for their current monopoly position. Certainly they have
    > /tried/ to monopolise other market segments too, such as console gaming,
    > portable media, search services and others, and each time (as Timmy
    > correctly pointed out) they have failed. Regardless, it is their two
    > core products (their /only/ profit making ventures) that ensure they
    > retain a monopoly.
    >
    >>> Your point is?

    >>
    >> He has one. You obviously not

    >
    > As usual, it seems Timmy is being deliberately obtuse, and Hadron the
    > Sheep followed him.
    >

    Another "me too" post from Quack. Oh, the irony.

    --
    Free-BSD 7.0, PC-BSD 1.4
    Linux systems: PCLOS 2007, Mandrake One 2008,
    Fedora 8, Kubuntu 7.10.
    -- On 64bit systems --

  15. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    [H]omer wrote:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Peter Köhlmann spake thusly:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> chrisv writes:

    >
    >>>> Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market
    >>>> power to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes,
    >>>> large business
    >>>
    >>> And yet ME failed.

    >>
    >> Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and
    >> lots of quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they
    >> still have the alternative. And Win98 was still present

    >
    > And more importantly, so was Win2K, which is what the savvy Windows
    > crowd turned to. Indeed many continue to do so (although I've heard
    > that Win2K3 may have supplanted Win2K in that role. I have no personal
    > experience with Win2K3).


    I myself run W2K in a virtual machine, and it is my base windows install
    which I use for all windows development (which now mainly is compiling and
    debugging on it. *Writing* the stuff is done on linux, in KDevelop

    The poor WinXP laptop gets switched on very rarely, to test if all stuff
    runs OK on XP too (it *does* happen that the two react slightly different,
    and it is difficult to find and program around if they do)
    In my opinion, W2K was the best windows ever, far better than XP, and not to
    mention this garbage they named Vista

    < snip >
    --
    Microsoft Windows - The art of incompetence.


  16. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > What is this fascination with sheep that the Linux community seems to
    > have?


    What's this fascination with Linux that supposed Linux haters seem to
    have?

    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

  17. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:57:41 -0600, Tattoo Vampire wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> What is this fascination with sheep that the Linux community seems to
    >> have?

    >
    > What's this fascination with Linux that supposed Linux haters seem to
    > have?


    I don't hate Linux.
    I dislike FUDsters like Schestowitz, Kent and [Homer] and I believe that
    they need to be exposed for what they are.
    Liars, hypocrites and harmful to the real Linux advocates.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  18. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Tattoo Vampire wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> What is this fascination with sheep that the Linux community seems to
    >> have?

    >
    > What's this fascination with Linux that supposed Linux haters seem to
    > have?
    >


    It is not "fascination". It is fear
    --
    Windows: Because everyone needs a good laugh!


  19. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:24:40 +0100, Peter Khlmann wrote:

    > Tattoo Vampire wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> What is this fascination with sheep that the Linux community seems to
    >>> have?

    >>
    >> What's this fascination with Linux that supposed Linux haters seem to
    >> have?
    >>

    >
    > It is not "fascination". It is fear


    Why would I fear Linux?
    Competition is good for everyone.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  20. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:40:06 +0100, Peter Khlmann wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:24:40 +0100, Peter Khlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> What is this fascination with sheep that the Linux community seems to
    >>>>> have?
    >>>>
    >>>> What's this fascination with Linux that supposed Linux haters seem to
    >>>> have?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> It is not "fascination". It is fear

    >>
    >> Why would I fear Linux?

    >
    > You have feared linux 10 years ago. And by now you are shaking
    > uncontrollably
    >
    >> Competition is good for everyone.
    >>

    >
    > Yes. Except for MS
    >


    You are out of your mind and BTW you didn't answer the question.
    Why would I fear Linux?


    Snip---lunacy..



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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