Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows... - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows... - Linux ; In article , chrisv wrote: > >> Hint: When you have a monopoly, you can sell whatever **** you like, and > >> in Microsoft's case "****" is very much the operative word. > > > >So that's why Vista ...

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Thread: Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

  1. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    In article ,
    chrisv wrote:
    > >> Hint: When you have a monopoly, you can sell whatever **** you like, and
    > >> in Microsoft's case "****" is very much the operative word.

    > >
    > >So that's why Vista has so completely killed of XP, and why ME was such
    > >a great success. Oh wait...

    >
    > Idiot. Walk into a store and check the selection of PC's that
    > "average Joe" can buy that do not have Vista on it.


    That's nice. Now surf over to Dell and note the many machines available
    with XP.

    Note also the numerous news items (many conveniently, though
    off-topically, posted on this very group) about how customers don't want
    Vista and Microsoft has been *forced* to extend XP availability.

    Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    whatever point he's making up?

    --
    --Tim Smith

  2. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:30:19 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:48 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >
    > < snip >
    >
    > Yes, that certainly is it. Hadron and flatfish in a nice "conversation"
    >
    > Loook, boys and gals: One of the rare (just 4 to 5 times a day) occurences
    > where you could see the only two existing "true linux advocates" agreeing
    >
    > Certainly a view to behold


    Yet you never seem to say anything about the atta boy posts the circle jerk
    club (Mark, Roy, [Homer],Willy and now Liarnut give each other all day
    every day.
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  3. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Moshe Goldfarb writes:

    > On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:30:19 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:48 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >> < snip >
    >>
    >> Yes, that certainly is it. Hadron and flatfish in a nice "conversation"
    >>
    >> Loook, boys and gals: One of the rare (just 4 to 5 times a day) occurences
    >> where you could see the only two existing "true linux advocates" agreeing
    >>
    >> Certainly a view to behold

    >
    > Yet you never seem to say anything about the atta boy posts the circle jerk
    > club (Mark, Roy, [Homer],Willy and now Liarnut give each other all day
    > every day.


    I think Peter is lonely. The lads kicked him out of the gang
    for "troll feeding" and daring to disagree with that nutcase Mark
    Kent about GPL3. I quite admired Peter for that to be honest.


  4. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:48 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >
    > < snip >
    >
    > Yes, that certainly is it. Hadron and flatfish in a nice "conversation"
    >
    > Loook, boys and gals: One of the rare (just 4 to 5 times a day) occurences
    > where you could see the only two existing "true linux advocates" agreeing
    >
    > Certainly a view to behold


    Goldbrick & Quack, sounds like a couple of snake oil salesmen.

    --
    Free-BSD 7.0, PC-BSD 1.4
    Linux systems: PCLOS 2007, Mandrake One 2008,
    Fedora 8, Kubuntu 7.10.
    -- On 64bit systems --

  5. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Hadron wrote:

    > You guys!


    But we all luuuuuuuuv you, Hadron.

    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.

  6. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Tattoo Vampire writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> You guys!

    >
    > But we all luuuuuuuuv you, Hadron.


    Somewhat worryingly I think some do.

    One or two of the COLA gang have event sent me emails asking personal
    things, and some even sign me up for rather dubious HPT/Marti type
    dating agencies - the little rascals.

  7. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Hadron wrote:

    > A reliable source rang me up the other day to ask me to visit this group
    > and tell him what I thought.


    Surrrrre. ;-)

    > What a surprise they got when I said I was already advocating Linux
    > here.


    COLA whopper of the year, to date.

    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....Life is sexually transmitted and terminal

  8. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Hadron wrote:

    > Tattoo Vampire writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> You guys!

    >>
    >> But we all luuuuuuuuv you, Hadron.

    >
    > Somewhat worryingly I think some do.
    >
    > One or two of the COLA gang have event sent me emails asking personal
    > things, and some even sign me up for rather dubious HPT/Marti type
    > dating agencies - the little rascals.


    Certainly. You know that positivly

    Flatfish and other wintroll scum have engaged in such activity. I highly
    doubt that linux advocates (the "true" varyity may do so, as flatfish is a
    member) would stoop to such levels.
    --
    Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -
    they have 'arguments' - and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.


  9. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Tattoo Vampire wrote:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> A reliable source rang me up the other day to ask me to visit this group
    >> and tell him what I thought.

    >
    > Surrrrre. ;-)
    >
    >> What a surprise they got when I said I was already advocating Linux
    >> here.

    >
    > COLA whopper of the year, to date.


    Ain't it just!
    AFAICT all Quack's done is bleat about too much choice, how poor Linux apps are
    & advocate *M$ products*. And that's not just in this group.

    --
    Free-BSD 7.0, PC-BSD 1.4
    Linux systems: PCLOS 2007, Mandrake One 2008,
    Fedora 8, Kubuntu 7.10.
    -- On 64bit systems --

  10. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Tattoo Vampire writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> A reliable source rang me up the other day to ask me to visit this group
    >> and tell him what I thought.

    >
    > Surrrrre. ;-)
    >
    >> What a surprise they got when I said I was already advocating Linux
    >> here.

    >
    > COLA whopper of the year, to date.


    Don't you start about my "lad" too ...

  11. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Tim Smith wrote:

    >Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >whatever point he's making up?


    Well, I would not doubt if stupid trolls take the opportunity to claim
    things like you just did, considering that different people have
    different things to say about it, and the situation *is* in flux, with
    no one knowing what's going to happen this Summer when "the deadline"
    approaches (again).

    Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market power
    to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes, large business
    accounts have more leverage and force M$ to "slow down" some, but that
    does not change the central truth, here.


  12. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    chrisv writes:

    > Tim Smith wrote:
    >
    >>Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >>things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >>changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >>whatever point he's making up?

    >
    > Well, I would not doubt if stupid trolls take the opportunity to claim
    > things like you just did, considering that different people have
    > different things to say about it, and the situation *is* in flux, with
    > no one knowing what's going to happen this Summer when "the deadline"
    > approaches (again).
    >
    > Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market power
    > to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes, large business



    And yet ME failed. Zune failed. A lot of their games failed.

    Your point is?

  13. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    [H]omer wrote:

    >>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:17:50 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:

    >
    >>>>>> So that's why Vista has so completely killed of XP, and why
    >>>>>> ME was such a great success. Oh wait...

    >
    >Hmm, a choice between one /Microsoft/ operating system or another
    >/Microsoft/ operating system. Well that's /obviously/ not a monopoly
    >then, is it?
    >
    >I never pegged you for an idiot until now, Smith.


    In-between some reasonable things, Timmy can come up with some massive
    idiocy and illogic. Kind of like Fuddie.


  14. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Hadron wrote:

    > chrisv writes:
    >
    >> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>>Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >>>things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >>>changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >>>whatever point he's making up?

    >>
    >> Well, I would not doubt if stupid trolls take the opportunity to claim
    >> things like you just did, considering that different people have
    >> different things to say about it, and the situation *is* in flux, with
    >> no one knowing what's going to happen this Summer when "the deadline"
    >> approaches (again).
    >>
    >> Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market power
    >> to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes, large business

    >
    >
    > And yet ME failed.


    Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and lots of
    quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they still have the
    alternative. And Win98 was still present

    > Zune failed.


    Too few features, and then crippled stuff (like the DRMed music transmission
    to other Zunes, even if the song was never DRMed in the first place. Talk
    about idiocy from MS. *That* was a really brain dead idea).
    Again, not *one* compelling reason to buy one, and then lots of other
    players with more and better features, in an already established market.
    MS soon discovered that this is not a market like OS or Office

    > A lot of their games failed.


    Rightly so. And again, a market with lots of other players, and, like the
    Zune, a market where MS came extremely late to the party.
    If you enter an established section of the market, you make sure that your
    product is *better* than the competition, not worse, like the Zune.

    > Your point is?


    He has one. You obviously not
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    Let it get in YOUR way. The problem for your problem.


  15. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    >Hadron quacked:
    >>
    >> Your point is?


    Duh, I was talking about their operating systems. They do not have
    monopoly power in the other products areas you mentioned.


  16. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    "Peter Köhlmann" stated in post
    fohp04$t6p$03$1@news.t-online.com on 2/8/08 7:29 AM:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> chrisv writes:
    >>
    >>> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    >>>> things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    >>>> changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    >>>> whatever point he's making up?
    >>>
    >>> Well, I would not doubt if stupid trolls take the opportunity to claim
    >>> things like you just did, considering that different people have
    >>> different things to say about it, and the situation *is* in flux, with
    >>> no one knowing what's going to happen this Summer when "the deadline"
    >>> approaches (again).
    >>>
    >>> Bottom line, historically, M$ has had the extraordinary market power
    >>> to force whatever they want onto the market. Yes, yes, large business

    >>
    >>
    >> And yet ME failed.

    >
    > Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and lots of
    > quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they still have the
    > alternative. And Win98 was still present
    >
    >> Zune failed.

    >
    > Too few features, and then crippled stuff (like the DRMed music transmission
    > to other Zunes, even if the song was never DRMed in the first place. Talk
    > about idiocy from MS. *That* was a really brain dead idea).
    > Again, not *one* compelling reason to buy one, and then lots of other
    > players with more and better features, in an already established market.
    > MS soon discovered that this is not a market like OS or Office
    >
    >> A lot of their games failed.

    >
    > Rightly so. And again, a market with lots of other players, and, like the
    > Zune, a market where MS came extremely late to the party.
    > If you enter an established section of the market, you make sure that your
    > product is *better* than the competition, not worse, like the Zune.
    >
    >> Your point is?

    >
    > He has one. You obviously not


    You keep associating market share, or maybe user base, with success.


    ------
    The BBC had to prioritise building the service around PCs
    because, according to BBC figures, around 90% of computers
    use Microsoft's Windows operating system, he added.

    Macs account for 9% of the market while the open source
    system Linux accounts for 0.8%.
    -----

    That a system that is given away for free cannot gain even 1% *user base* is
    simply not a good sign for it, not if people have a goal of seeing Linux on
    the desktop. Not everyone who uses Linux does, of course, but some of the
    same things that effects its growth also effect those who use it now.


    --
    The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
    --Albert Einstein


  17. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * Peter Köhlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:01:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:22 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >>>>>> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:48 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >
    > < snip >
    >
    > Yes, that certainly is it. Hadron and flatfish in a nice "conversation"
    >
    > Loook, boys and gals: One of the rare (just 4 to 5 times a day) occurences
    > where you could see the only two existing "true linux advocates" agreeing
    >
    > Certainly a view to behold


    God bless you for snipping their bull****, Peter. It is nice not to
    have to see it.

    --
    He who wishes to be obeyed must know how to command.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  18. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> >So that's why Vista has so completely killed of XP, and why ME was such
    >> >a great success. Oh wait...

    >>
    >> Idiot. Walk into a store and check the selection of PC's that
    >> "average Joe" can buy that do not have Vista on it.

    >
    > That's nice. Now surf over to Dell and note the many machines available
    > with XP.
    >
    > Note also the numerous news items (many conveniently, though
    > off-topically, posted on this very group) about how customers don't want
    > Vista and Microsoft has been *forced* to extend XP availability.
    >
    > Is Vista success or lack thereof going to become another one of those
    > things, like reading/writing Office files, where the "advocate" position
    > changes moment to moment, depending on which would fit better with
    > whatever point he's making up?


    No, Tim. You forget, Microsoft has plenty of time. They can field
    garbage, and, while improving it to the point of usability, they can
    afford to support the old stuff for a bit longer.

    They did it with NT, with 2000, with XP, and they'll do it again with
    Vista. It may take a bit longer, given that Vista seems to be crappier
    at the outset than XP was.

    In the meantime, they can use to the channel-stuffing numbers to comfort
    (try to, anyway) the stockholders.

    Your characterization of the disparate arguments of separate posters is
    simply specious.

    --
    Hence it comes about that all armed Prophets have been victorious, and all
    unarmed Prophets have been destroyed.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  19. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    >> And yet ME failed.

    >
    >Because it was basically a "new" Win98. With worse performance and lots of
    >quirks. People are not dumb enough to endure such, if they still have the
    >alternative. And Win98 was still present


    Win98 was present and easily pirated/re-used, being before the days of
    activation. Businesses went to Win2k. Many just held-on to Win98
    until XP came out.

    No, ME's failure does *not* disprove the claim that, in general, M$
    has been able to force things onto the market.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with Vista, arguably
    Micro$oft's worst product yet, with no alternative like Win2k was to
    WinME...


  20. Re: Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing Windows...

    * [H]omer peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> Sheep all over the world "baaaaaaaaaaaa" in protest at being compared
    >> to Hadron.

    >
    > No, actually they're baaa-ing in fear of Hadron putting on his wellies
    > and climbing over the fence.


    You need those wellies to keep the sheep from kicking back during the
    tupping.

    --
    Men shrink less from offending one who inspires love than one who inspires
    fear.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

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