Windows now underprices free - Linux

This is a discussion on Windows now underprices free - Linux ; "Linonut" wrote in message news:J8iqj.77150$N67.19589@bignews5.bellsouth.net. .. >* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo: > >> I have often wondered what this notion of "yearly software fees" is in >> regard to. Certainly not Windows, once you buy it, you own ...

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Thread: Windows now underprices free

  1. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:J8iqj.77150$N67.19589@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
    >* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> I have often wondered what this notion of "yearly software fees" is in
    >> regard to. Certainly not Windows, once you buy it, you own it forever.

    >
    > Bull****. You /don't/ own it.
    >

    You have unfettered use of it for as long as you live, though, so what's the
    difference?

    >> Linux, on the other hand, requires annual support agreements, i.e. no pay
    >> no
    >> service. Of course you can maybe do without any support service
    >> altogether.

    >
    > Linux solutions and Windows solutions are essentially identical on this
    > issue, except that Linux also gives you source code access with no extra
    > costs, and no non-disclosure agreement.
    >
    >> India is the main outsourcing area for US software developers who get
    >> gobs
    >> of code written on the cheap by these suffering folk. Of course that
    >> pay-for software is all Windows stuff, so being good with Linux doesn't
    >> put
    >> any rice in the bowl or curry on the plate. Maybe they want to break
    >> them
    >> in on Linux with no pay so that minimum wages for Windows looks good by
    >> comparison. What do you think?

    >
    > I think you are, essentially, an gibbering idiot.
    >

    I think that your biases are keeping your mind closed to innovative
    thoughts. Linux is the hind tit of software because its proponents don't
    have the know-how to promote it effecively and all you ever seem to do to
    help yourself is to sneer at the idea that there is a problem. You are
    doomed to fail.


  2. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "chrisv" wrote in message
    news:reejq39o2osmd4gtvqck8kufirtqg6dptj@4ax.com...
    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >>I have often wondered what this notion of "yearly software fees" is in
    >>regard to.

    >
    > Dumbsh*t. What do you think most corporate licensing deals amount to?
    >

    If you ever get a job in a corporation with such a deal, you can read the
    license yourself. Basically it will say that you can install the licensed
    product on some limited or unlimited number of machines, all of which are
    owned by or used by the contracted corporation. It will say that use of the
    product on these machines does not expire with the license.


  3. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:6Ojqj.67233$Mu4.45477@bignews7.bellsouth.net. ..
    >* thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> [H]omer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> homemade stuff
    >>>
    >>> Is that "homemade" as in made by Red Hat, Novell, IBM, Sun, Apache,
    >>> MySQL, Mozilla, the NSA and the US Army? Damn, those "bedroom"
    >>> programmers have been busy.

    >>
    >> Yeah, I was going to take a job doing Linux coding for IBM, but
    >> then I learned IBM stands for Igor Brennen Molovich... a pimple
    >> faced geeky kid living in his parents' basement. Similarly, Red
    >> Hat is actually the name of a homeless guy that hangs out by the
    >> bus station handing out Linux CDs and yelling at strangers
    >> (actually, Red isn't such a bad guy when he stays on his meds).
    >> I guess the wintrolls have been right all along. >

    >
    > You could always go to work for "Open" Susie. I hear Debbie&Ian have a
    > good dental plan.



    What is life like in the future? Or is setting your system clock beyond
    your technical ability?




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  4. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    wrote in message
    news:i4po75-oss.ln1@tux.glaci.com...
    > [H]omer wrote:
    >>
    >>>> homemade stuff

    >>
    >> Is that "homemade" as in made by Red Hat, Novell, IBM, Sun, Apache,
    >> MySQL, Mozilla, the NSA and the US Army? Damn, those "bedroom"
    >> programmers have been busy.

    >
    > Yeah, I was going to take a job doing Linux coding for IBM, but
    > then I learned IBM stands for Igor Brennen Molovich... a pimple
    > faced geeky kid living in his parents' basement. Similarly, Red
    > Hat is actually the name of a homeless guy that hangs out by the
    > bus station handing out Linux CDs and yelling at strangers
    > (actually, Red isn't such a bad guy when he stays on his meds).
    > I guess the wintrolls have been right all along. >
    >

    Context, Thad, context! Certainly Linux as a replacement for Unix in
    non-critical uses is a reality and is pursued by IBM, RHT, NOVL, and some
    others, but I was talking of the clumsy apps that go along with it on the
    desktop. Things like "gimp" and "gnucash" and other silly-named functional
    copycats of popular commercial apps. No one uses them professionally.


  5. Re: Windows now underprices free


    "Rex Ballard" wrote in message
    news:48092446-2ca3-4537-a264-74bb682bf5a2@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
    > On Feb 4, 1:39 pm, "amicus_curious" wrote:
    >> "Rex Ballard" wrote in message
    >> news:bd14c251-eb8e-4c04-b4dd-87f3438efe8c@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
    >> > On Feb 4, 11:17 am, "amicus_curious" wrote:
    >> >> The basic bottom of the line Dell Inspiron 530 with Windows Home Basic
    >> >> and
    >> >> support is $499 versus the Ubuntu Dell Inspiron 530N with no support
    >> >> at
    >> >> $509. Seems like lukewarm has migrated to chilly.

    >>
    >> > This actually makes sense. Remember, Dell buys Windows licenses in
    >> > bulk. They have to pay for the license, whether you use it or not.

    >>
    >> Not true. You are way behind the times. In 1994 Microsoft agreed as
    >> part
    >> of a settlement with the DOJ that they would no longer license DOS or
    >> Windows this way. They have been charging only for licenses actually
    >> shipped ever since and the courts and DOJ have been scrutinizing this
    >> ever
    >> since.

    >
    > You are referring to "per processor" licensing.
    >
    > Both the 1994 agreement, and the 2001 agreement gave Microsoft tthe
    > right to set discount policies and rates based on minimum
    > commitments. If Dell sells 10 million computers in the current year,
    > then Microsoft can offer them 8 million licenrses to 12 million
    > licenses at a 20% discount, let's say $50 per copy, so 10 million
    > copies would cost 500 million dollars. If they agree to a minimum
    > commitment to order at least 12 million licenses, they can get a 50%
    > discount, say $30 per copy. So even though you're getting 12 million
    > licenses, you are only paying $360 million dollars. The result is
    > that you pay a lower total price by ordering far more than you need.
    >

    You are full of more **** than the Christmas goose, Rex. You pull some
    numbers out of thin air and try to use that as a proof, but no one is
    fooled.



  6. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    * thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > [H]omer wrote:
    >>
    >>>> homemade stuff

    >>
    >> Is that "homemade" as in made by Red Hat, Novell, IBM, Sun, Apache,
    >> MySQL, Mozilla, the NSA and the US Army? Damn, those "bedroom"
    >> programmers have been busy.

    >
    > Yeah, I was going to take a job doing Linux coding for IBM, but
    > then I learned IBM stands for Igor Brennen Molovich... a pimple
    > faced geeky kid living in his parents' basement. Similarly, Red
    > Hat is actually the name of a homeless guy that hangs out by the
    > bus station handing out Linux CDs and yelling at strangers
    > (actually, Red isn't such a bad guy when he stays on his meds).
    > I guess the wintrolls have been right all along. >


    You could always go to work for "Open" Susie. I hear Debbie&Ian have a
    good dental plan.

    --
    No enterprise is more likely to succeed than one concealed from the enemy until
    it is ripe for execution.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  7. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    rat wrote:

    > "chrisv" wrote:
    >>
    >> rat wrote:
    >>>
    >>>I have often wondered what this notion of "yearly software fees" is in
    >>>regard to.

    >>
    >> Dumbsh*t. What do you think most corporate licensing deals amount to?
    >>

    > If you ever get a job in a corporation with such a deal, you can read the
    > license yourself. Basically it will say that you can install the licensed
    > product on some limited or unlimited number of machines, all of which are
    > owned by or used by the contracted corporation. It will say that use of the
    > product on these machines does not expire with the license.


    But they pay a monthly/yearly fee to maintain their corporate license.
    Idiot.


  8. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    amicus_curious wrote:

    > You have unfettered use of it for as long as you live, though, so
    > what's the difference?


    Well, for one thing with Linux you can find the sections in the source code
    responsible for beauts like these:

    http://www.polzer-sw.com/files/pictu...de4/kde4-2.png

    http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdeadm...html#id2546034

    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/ONo_2.png (deleting data via a
    'read-only' form in OpenOffice Base)





  9. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    amicus_curious wrote:
    >>
    >> Yeah, I was going to take a job doing Linux coding for IBM, but
    >> then I learned IBM stands for Igor Brennen Molovich... a pimple
    >> faced geeky kid living in his parents' basement. Similarly, Red
    >> Hat is actually the name of a homeless guy that hangs out by the
    >> bus station handing out Linux CDs and yelling at strangers
    >> (actually, Red isn't such a bad guy when he stays on his meds).
    >> I guess the wintrolls have been right all along. >
    >>

    > Context, Thad, context! Certainly Linux as a replacement for Unix in
    > non-critical uses is a reality and is pursued by IBM, RHT, NOVL, and some
    > others, but I was talking of the clumsy apps that go along with it on the
    > desktop. Things like "gimp" and "gnucash" and other silly-named functional
    > copycats of popular commercial apps. No one uses them professionally.


    You really need to get a sense of humor.

    And you are wrong by the way, gimp is used very extensively in the
    motion picture industry.

    Thad
    --
    Yeah, I drank the Open Source cool-aid... Unlike the other brand, it had
    all the ingredients on the label.

  10. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:26:13 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >> You have unfettered use of it for as long as you live, though, so
    >> what's the difference?

    >
    > Well, for one thing with Linux you can find the sections in the source code
    > responsible for beauts like these:
    >
    > http://www.polzer-sw.com/files/pictu...de4/kde4-2.png
    >
    > http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdeadm...html#id2546034
    >
    > http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/ONo_2.png (deleting data via a
    > 'read-only' form in OpenOffice Base)


    That's Linux in action all right.
    Of course the Linux loons deny it and will claim you Photoshopped it, or in
    Linux lingo "Gimped it".


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    wrote in message
    news:3a2p75-je2.ln1@tux.glaci.com...
    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, I was going to take a job doing Linux coding for IBM, but
    >>> then I learned IBM stands for Igor Brennen Molovich... a pimple
    >>> faced geeky kid living in his parents' basement. Similarly, Red
    >>> Hat is actually the name of a homeless guy that hangs out by the
    >>> bus station handing out Linux CDs and yelling at strangers
    >>> (actually, Red isn't such a bad guy when he stays on his meds).
    >>> I guess the wintrolls have been right all along. >
    >>>

    >> Context, Thad, context! Certainly Linux as a replacement for Unix in
    >> non-critical uses is a reality and is pursued by IBM, RHT, NOVL, and some
    >> others, but I was talking of the clumsy apps that go along with it on the
    >> desktop. Things like "gimp" and "gnucash" and other silly-named
    >> functional
    >> copycats of popular commercial apps. No one uses them professionally.

    >
    > You really need to get a sense of humor.
    >

    Oh, I laugh all the time.

    > And you are wrong by the way, gimp is used very extensively in the
    > motion picture industry.
    >

    Well, not gimp, but CinePaint, the current name for what was once "film
    gimp", apparently not the same thing. Since I do not make any motion
    pictures, I am not so aware of this usage. It seems a little ironic that
    Hollywood does use this stuff, given their war on DRM violations with the
    MPAA. Do the record companies use Linux, too?


  12. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    * amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > If you are doing it for a living, you need to. If you are just farting
    > around, Linux and OSS are OK, I am sure.


    Idiot

    --
    Since it is difficult to join them together, it is safer to be feared than to
    be loved when one of the two must be lacking.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  13. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:vQpqj.61680$k27.52243@bignews2.bellsouth.net. ..
    >* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> If you are doing it for a living, you need to. If you are just farting
    >> around, Linux and OSS are OK, I am sure.

    >
    > Idiot
    >

    Fart


  14. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    On 4 Feb, 20:51, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > Pedant Point: one has to ask as to which edition is used here.


    What revenue goes from DELL to MICROSOFT for any 'edition' of Vista?

  15. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "Doug Mentohl" wrote in message
    news:1d61a590-3b0e-43ef-899e-e9cc698c8ce7@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
    > On 4 Feb, 20:51, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> Pedant Point: one has to ask as to which edition is used here.

    >
    > What revenue goes from DELL to MICROSOFT for any 'edition' of Vista?


    That is hard to say based on actual audits of financial records which are
    not easily obtained. However, Dell has some 18% of the global PC market and
    Microsoft is required by law to treat all customers under the same,
    published policy and that order is being monitored continually by oversight
    committees formed from Microsoft competitors, so it is reasonable to expect
    that Dell pays Microsoft about what an 18% share of Microsoft's revenue
    would amount to for Windows Vista and other Windows versions, all things
    being more or less equal. For the last quarter, that is about $500M.


  16. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    * amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > At last count, about 44% of the server business was in Windows based servers
    > and some 9% was in Linux based servers. That gives Windows some 4 times the
    > market share of Linux, which means that Linux is less than 20% of the
    > combined Windows-Linux server "market".


    I think you are confusing revenues with share.

    In any case, it is well known that you need substantially more Windows
    servers to do the same jobs as Linux servers.

    > Well, Linux is not a flower nor a turd. It is an operating system platform
    > that is a functional clone of Unix and is useful for a variety of
    > applications, mostly in cases where an inexpensive substitute for a Unix
    > server function is appropriate. It can be made to function usefully and
    > completely adequately on the desktop as an alternative to Windows if the
    > user is willing to accept the numerous differences between using a
    > traditional Windows environment with its traditional applications and using
    > the Linux environment.


    Fair enough.

    > There is nothing in the Linux environnment that is
    > particularly compelling, however, and it seems that converts to Linux are
    > mostly oddballs with some real or fancied grudge against Microsoft.


    Bull****. Idiocy, pure and simple. Even Microsoft itself doesn't agree
    with you.

    > Microsoft, on the other hand, is a classic example of how to do things
    > correctly in the business world. They were an early entrant, but long after
    > the firest, into a product market that went through an explosive growth
    > phase and they did a masterful job of first positioning themselves and then
    > sticking with their market strategies and not being distracted by a lot of
    > things that were not part of what they were about. They did that for
    > desktop platforms, they did that for office automation, they did that for
    > development tools, and they eventually did that for server platforms, with
    > additional developments for databases and business communications. They are
    > also very much aware, it would seem, of product life cycles and the need to
    > manage a business in response to them. They have moved into the home
    > entertainment arena with the XBox and created a $6B business in a very few
    > years. Now they are interested in the internet portal arena.


    And IPTV as well.

    All that you say above is true, roughly, and explains why Linux (and
    Mac) have not been able to make much headway in certain markets. I
    certainly thought myself that a good, solid, free OSS system would
    naturally attract more non-technical users, but I was wrong. Even
    serious problems have not driven consumers from the incumbent
    "solution".

    What is even more amazing to me is how similar business and government
    users are to consumers. Who would have thought that a sole-source
    vendor solution would be allowed to penetrate so far into the
    interstices of business?

    > It is not so hard to fail in new businesses and Microsoft may regret some of
    > their more recent endeavors, but they are doing what they should be doing
    > and that makes them a model for everyone to study.


    Including criminologists.

    No one company should be controlling a market. Period.

    --
    Until we're educating every kid in a fantastic way, until every inner city is
    cleaned up, there is no shortage of things to do.
    -- Bill Gates

  17. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    * amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > "Linonut" wrote in message
    >>* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> If you are doing it for a living, you need to. If you are just farting
    >>> around, Linux and OSS are OK, I am sure.

    >>
    >> Idiot
    >>

    > Fart


    Excuse yourself!

    --
    A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise.
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

  18. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    On 7 Feb, 15:52, "amicus_curious" wrote:

    > it is reasonable to expect ..


    Do you have any creditable citations for the above work of fiction?

    What is DELL paying MICROSOFT for each 'Dell Inspiron 530' sold?

    Vista + Dell Inspiron 530 = Ubuntu + Dell Inspiron 530 + $10

  19. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..


    "Doug Mentohl" wrote in message
    news:4eac5ad3-8d01-48d0-a858-8d1c0840af50@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    > On 7 Feb, 15:52, "amicus_curious" wrote:
    >
    >> it is reasonable to expect ..

    >
    > Do you have any creditable citations for the above work of fiction?
    >

    Google around for Dell's estimated PC market share worldwide and you will
    see it is about 18%. Read the latest MSFT 10Q on Edgar and you will see
    that they are selling desktop Windows at a $2.5B to $3B clip. Then do the
    math.

    > What is DELL paying MICROSOFT for each 'Dell Inspiron 530' sold?
    >
    > Vista + Dell Inspiron 530 = Ubuntu + Dell Inspiron 530 + $10


    You might have a tough time breaking it down to individual models, but Dell
    is shipping some 10 million desktops and notebooks per quarter, so $500M
    worth of licenses would be about fifty bucks each on the average. Since the
    premium and ultimates are certainly higher than the basic, that would make
    the basic less than fifty bucks. It's a guess as to how much that would be,
    but it is probably in the $25 to $35 ballpark.

    Don't get confused by the relative costs of the products. Price points are
    set based on what the vendor thinks he can get, not on what it costs to
    build a PC. The difference is the profit margin on a product and if there
    is not enough profit, the vendor doesn't offer the product, he doesn't just
    raise the price. Dell is selling the Ubuntu PC for what it thinks it can
    get and Dell is pretty smart about that kind of thing.


  20. Re: Vista only worth $10 Dollars says amicus fuddie ..

    On Feb 8, 9:08 am, Doug Mentohl wrote:
    > On 7 Feb, 15:52, "amicus_curious" wrote:
    >
    > > it is reasonable to expect ..

    >
    > Do you have any creditable citations for the above work of fiction?
    >
    > What is DELL paying MICROSOFT for each 'Dell Inspiron 530' sold?


    Dell isn't paying for each machine sold. Both Dell and Microsoft
    know about how many machines will be sold. Microsoft makes it
    cheaper to by too many licenses, than "just enough". If Dell will
    sell 10 million machines, Microsoft gives them a 20% discount for 8
    million to 12 million licenses, and a 60% discount for 12 million
    licenses or more. At $50 each, that's $40 per copy for 10 million
    licenses or $400 million vs $20 per copy for 12 million licenses, or
    $240 million. The cost of the 12 million licenses has to be averaged
    into the cost of the 10 million machines, or $24/machine. Since Dell,
    HP, Lenovo, and now Acer, all average around 10 million machines each,
    the schedule for these "tier 1" customers is the same, just as
    required in the DOJ settlement. Tier 2 customers get a similar
    "cliff" at lower quantities.

    > Vista + Dell Inspiron 530 = Ubuntu + Dell Inspiron 530 + $10


    Vista + Dell Inspiron 530 = Ubuntu + VISTA (unused) + Dell Inspiron




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