It's time, one year on. (long) - Linux

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Thread: It's time, one year on. (long)

  1. It's time, one year on. (long)

    There are millions of people like me, I'm sure. Sick of Microsoft's
    invasion of my privacy, sick of the hold they had on my computer, and sick
    and tired of knowing that the computer I have bought and paid for is not
    actually mine - it is actually Microsoft's property. I used Windows
    because I didn't know better, getting more and more frustrated. I have now
    used Ubuntu for almost a year, and consider myself to be a seasoned newbie
    and have written many articles for local mags and talks.

    The trouble is, some Linux users do not like Ubuntu which simply baffle
    me, even going so far as to scoff that it is dumbed down and Linux for
    Dummies, their chosen distro is better, etc. etc. Why is it like this?
    Isn't Ubuntu Linux anymore? Is it not been an overwhelming success in the
    world of Linux? If someone doesn't like a distro, would it not be better
    to advocate that OS than to slag off others? I guess it's human nature,
    but I sure don't understand it!

    Then on this newsgroup, which I follow with interest, there are Windows
    users coming here to mock Linux users. If I was happy with Windows, why
    would I subscribe to a Linux advocacy newsgroup, unless the intent is to
    disrupt or attack others?

    But of course, with the recent news about Microsoft's stealth updates and
    including the ability to be able to embed advertising as part of the
    operating system, they would be on a course of self-destruct now? This,
    for many, is the final straw. I would be very interested in knowing what
    other users around the globe feel about this. Vote with your feet, I say!

    Since the news broke, my friends, family and club members have been
    completely incensed with the invasion of privacy Microsoft has subjected
    them to and they have literally had enough. What better scenario for an
    alternative operating system to become (eventually) the main, the norm?

    In any other competitive market, there would always be someone stepping up
    to take their crown, and in Linux's case, there are many good distros that
    are able to do this. What is needed now is a BIG push to make real quality
    distros that work right out of the box with very minimal terminal work
    involved or required for the new generation of users. I truly feel that a
    six month release cycle can do more harm than good and quality has to come
    before the latest bells and whistles. What are the group's thoughts on
    this?

    The market is now there, the quality of Linux cannot be argued, and the
    rewards for all the years of hard work advocating and developing the Linux
    we use today are about to come to fruition. I am certain that the people
    are ready, just like I have been over the last year.

    Many Linux users and advocates say they do not care what Windows does, but
    I think Windows users now care about what the Linux community is doing, with
    much interest. The year of the Linux desktop is now, the distros are
    ready. Is the community ready for it? Sadly, no, I do not think it is.

    Tony(UK)

  2. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    BearItAll writes:

    > Tony Smith wrote:
    >
    >> There are millions of people like me, I'm sure. Sick of Microsoft's
    >> invasion of my privacy, sick of the hold they had on my computer, and sick
    >> and tired of knowing that the computer I have bought and paid for is not
    >> actually mine - it is actually Microsoft's property. I used Windows
    >> because I didn't know better, getting more and more frustrated. I have now
    >> used Ubuntu for almost a year, and consider myself to be a seasoned newbie
    >> and have written many articles for local mags and talks.
    >>
    >> The trouble is, some Linux users do not like Ubuntu which simply baffle
    >> me, even going so far as to scoff that it is dumbed down and Linux for
    >> Dummies, their chosen distro is better, etc. etc. Why is it like this?
    >> Isn't Ubuntu Linux anymore? Is it not been an overwhelming success in the
    >> world of Linux? If someone doesn't like a distro, would it not be better
    >> to advocate that OS than to slag off others? I guess it's human nature,
    >> but I sure don't understand it!
    >>

    >
    > Linux is Linux, whether it has Redhat, Debian, or anything else
    > written on


    No. It isn't. There are many, many options when building a Linux
    kernel. Or are all "cars, cars"? Yes and no.

    > the DVD. But there are different tastes when it comes to distros. Some like
    > the distros you have to mess around with, others just want a machine they
    > can switch on and get on with what ever they use a computer for. I don't
    > think people are damning Ubuntu when they say they don't like it, it is
    > much more that their tastes are better met elsewhere.


    Like where? Name one distro that can do something that Ubuntu can't.

    >
    > My taste at one time was for distros I had to mess with, but that has gone
    > now, so instead I want a machine that 'just does it' with minimum
    > interference from me.


    So your preference was to waste your own time on the installation. How
    typical.

    I have just been through installing various versions of Ubuntu and
    Debian (etch and lenny) on new super fast HW. Nightmare. Really. How the
    hell can something work in Etch and then not be supported in Lenny?

    >
    > I have tried Ubuntu, it would easily come under my current taste of low fuss
    > computing. It is a good solid distro, but I am always puzzled at it's
    > success, I can not really see why Ubuntu would be more successfull than
    > other distros that I would put in the same 'just does it' category, such as
    > Elive, openSuse, Linspire, Xandros, PCLinuxOS and some more.


    This is why your opinion is so not sort. Ubuntu has an excellent
    installer, a wonderful support setup and a benefactor. It is also based
    on the highly regarded Debian. As well as being DELL's choice. People
    like that. It#s starting not to look like some hobbyist crap which
    infests distrowatch and confuses people.

    >
    > I bet every one of the main distro vendors have looked at Ubuntu the way I
    > did to try to see where it's success comes from, and I bet like myself they
    > couldn't come up with anything specific. All I can put it down to is
    > the


    Well, that is more your fault. Its called listening to your users. And
    marketing.

    > fact that the Ubuntu forums are probably the best distro forums I have
    > seen, so the help available for Ubuntu users is better than
    > others. But


    All you can put it down to? What planet are you from? This is the MOST
    important factor for many people.

    > then what applies to Ubuntu users as technical help in the forums generally
    > applies to other Linux users, particularly if their distro is Debian based,
    > so that isn't really a good enough reason to explain Ubuntu's success, but
    > it is the only reason I have managed to come up with.
    >
    > For me SLES is currently the best of the server distros, all Linux is really
    > server based even if only serving within the box, and all Linux distros can
    > be made into a full server, but still, that low fuss computing applies to
    > my servers as well as my clients, so for me SLES or openSuse fit the bill
    > for a server, work paid for mine so it's SLES.


    Why is it good? Why not Ubuntu Server? Why not Debian?

    *snip*

  3. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    Hadron wrote:

    > BearItAll writes:
    >
    >> Tony Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>> There are millions of people like me, I'm sure. Sick of Microsoft's
    >>> invasion of my privacy, sick of the hold they had on my computer, and
    >>> sick and tired of knowing that the computer I have bought and paid for
    >>> is not actually mine - it is actually Microsoft's property. I used
    >>> Windows because I didn't know better, getting more and more frustrated.
    >>> I have now used Ubuntu for almost a year, and consider myself to be a
    >>> seasoned newbie and have written many articles for local mags and talks.
    >>>
    >>> The trouble is, some Linux users do not like Ubuntu which simply baffle
    >>> me, even going so far as to scoff that it is dumbed down and Linux for
    >>> Dummies, their chosen distro is better, etc. etc. Why is it like this?
    >>> Isn't Ubuntu Linux anymore? Is it not been an overwhelming success in
    >>> the world of Linux? If someone doesn't like a distro, would it not be
    >>> better to advocate that OS than to slag off others? I guess it's human
    >>> nature, but I sure don't understand it!
    >>>

    >>
    >> Linux is Linux, whether it has Redhat, Debian, or anything else
    >> written on

    >
    > No. It isn't. There are many, many options when building a Linux
    > kernel. Or are all "cars, cars"? Yes and no.
    >


    Yes pet {tap tap gently on shoulder}, all cars are cars. The different
    shapes that you might have noticed, and the little badge on the front,
    hmmmm? have you seen them? Well those are just to do with different
    models, but they are in fact all cars.

    Linux has different models too, but they are all Linux.





    I couldn't be arsed with the rest. Sorry, help you learn things some other
    time, but right now I have a ham sandwich that is taking priority,
    obviously.

    For now draw a picture in your homework book of a badge off your dad's car,
    to help you it's the one that has the word Skoda written on it.


  4. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    In article , Hadron says...

    > I have just been through installing various versions of Ubuntu and
    > Debian (etch and lenny) on new super fast HW. Nightmare. Really. How the
    > hell can something work in Etch and then not be supported in Lenny?


    Welcome to the world of Linux.

    And they wonder why Microsoft is getting more of Unix's market share
    and gaining customers from Novell as well as increasing its share in
    the web server market.

    --
    Conor

    I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

  5. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    BearItAll writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> BearItAll writes:
    >>
    >>> Tony Smith wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> There are millions of people like me, I'm sure. Sick of Microsoft's
    >>>> invasion of my privacy, sick of the hold they had on my computer, and
    >>>> sick and tired of knowing that the computer I have bought and paid for
    >>>> is not actually mine - it is actually Microsoft's property. I used
    >>>> Windows because I didn't know better, getting more and more frustrated.
    >>>> I have now used Ubuntu for almost a year, and consider myself to be a
    >>>> seasoned newbie and have written many articles for local mags and talks.
    >>>>
    >>>> The trouble is, some Linux users do not like Ubuntu which simply baffle
    >>>> me, even going so far as to scoff that it is dumbed down and Linux for
    >>>> Dummies, their chosen distro is better, etc. etc. Why is it like this?
    >>>> Isn't Ubuntu Linux anymore? Is it not been an overwhelming success in
    >>>> the world of Linux? If someone doesn't like a distro, would it not be
    >>>> better to advocate that OS than to slag off others? I guess it's human
    >>>> nature, but I sure don't understand it!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Linux is Linux, whether it has Redhat, Debian, or anything else
    >>> written on

    >>
    >> No. It isn't. There are many, many options when building a Linux
    >> kernel. Or are all "cars, cars"? Yes and no.
    >>

    >
    > Yes pet {tap tap gently on shoulder}, all cars are cars. The different
    > shapes that you might have noticed, and the little badge on the front,
    > hmmmm? have you seen them? Well those are just to do with different
    > models, but they are in fact all cars.
    >
    > Linux has different models too, but they are all Linux.


    But that is not what you eluded to any you know it. There are many
    flavours of Linux and they bare no resemblance to each other.

    By your thick-as-**** reasoning all OS's are the same. Well, guess
    what. They are not.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I couldn't be arsed with the rest. Sorry, help you learn things some other
    > time, but right now I have a ham sandwich that is taking priority,
    > obviously.
    >
    > For now draw a picture in your homework book of a badge off your dad's car,
    > to help you it's the one that has the word Skoda written on it.
    >


    Poor BearItAll. A bull****ter, and someone who tries, like Rexx,
    to take the kudos for other peoples work. Tell me, have you come up with
    proof of this 25% Direct X performance increase yet?

    The crayon joke is old. When you say anything even remotely sensible or
    address the points made then I might find myself in agreement.

    I notice you didn't address any of the questions I posed and only chose
    to misunderstand my meaning about "Linux being Linux". I dont know why
    you pretend to be such a bumbling fool, but every time you post it
    becomes apparent that it might not be a troll on your part.


    --
    Perdonamos fácilmente a nuestros amigos los defectos en que nada nos
    afectan.
    -- La Rochefoucauld. (1613-1680) PolĂ*tico y escritor francĂ©s.

  6. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Barmy Bob belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > In article , Hadron says...
    >
    >> I have just been through installing various versions of Ubuntu and
    >> Debian (etch and lenny) on new super fast HW. Nightmare. Really. How the
    >> hell can something work in Etch and then not be supported in Lenny?

    >
    > Welcome to the world of Linux.
    >
    > And they wonder why Microsoft is getting more of Unix's market share
    > and gaining customers from Novell as well as increasing its share in
    > the web server market.


    Short answer: the world is full of simpletons, morons, and unabashed
    liars such as yourself and Hadron.

    --
    Tux rox!

  7. Re: It's time, one year on. (long)

    Verily I say unto thee, that Tony Smith spake thusly:

    > There are millions of people like me, I'm sure. Sick of Microsoft's
    > invasion of my privacy, sick of the hold they had on my computer, and
    > sick and tired of knowing that the computer I have bought and paid
    > for is not actually mine - it is actually Microsoft's property.


    Microsoft may own the operating system, but they don't own your
    hardware, nor your data. I'm sure they'd /like/ to though, and certainly
    they like to try to convince people that these elements are inseparable.

    If it were up to Microsoft, commodity PC hardware would only ever work
    with Windows (ACPI, DirectX, NGSCB, Win-modems, Windows specific BIOS
    extensions, etc.), and the data formats you use would only be accessible
    using Windows software. They've dedicated years of work, billions of
    dollars, and lobbied/corrupted countless officials trying to accomplish
    those goals, but the Free Software community fought back and managed to
    reclaim much of that lost freedom. All that remains is to convince the
    ignorant masses to join us. This is IMHO a fundamental goal of COLA.

    > I used Windows because I didn't know better


    You and everybody else. Those who both use /and/ defend Windows are a
    rare breed indeed. In fact I think all six of them are in this group.

    > The trouble is, some Linux users do not like Ubuntu


    That's a minor issue. Don't assume that because we all use GNU/Linux
    that we all agree with each other. Some of the most vicious squabbling
    goes on between GNU/Linux users, over issues ranging from Gnome Vs KDE,
    vi Vs Emacs, and distro X Vs distro Y, to the issue of Open Source Vs
    Free Software, and everything in between. It's always been that way.

    The thing about Open Source is that it isn't just the /source/ that's
    open, the discussions are open too. If you could read all the internal
    correspondence between Windows developers, then you'd realise this is
    not a trait unique to GNU/Linux. In fact, I recall a particularly nasty
    exchange, quite recently, between a developer (who added extensions to
    Visual Studio Express) and Microsoft. You can read the whole sorry tale
    here:

    http://weblogs.asp.net/nunitaddin/

    In the covert closed-source world of secrets, boiler-room deals,
    under-the-table handshakes, and conspiracies, the details of these
    nefarious discussions are usually only brought into the open by the
    legal system during litigation (see http://antitrust.slated.org), so
    exposure like the TestDriven.net scandal is rare.

    The same is not usually true of Open Source/Free Software development
    (witness Torvald's outspoken comments on the LKML, and Theo the Rats
    equally inflammatory comments elsewhere).

    Debate is a good and healthy thing (it's why we're here, after all).
    However, there's a difference between debate and sabotage. Much of the
    anti-Linux trolling in this group (and elsewhere) is nothing but lies
    and hyperbole. Similarly much of the retorts are equally inflammatory,
    but this is /our/ party - those who attack Linux in a Linux advocacy
    group are the gatecrashers. They are little more than mindless thugs,
    undeserving of consideration.

    > Then on this newsgroup, which I follow with interest, there are
    > Windows users coming here to mock Linux users. If I was happy with
    > Windows, why would I subscribe to a Linux advocacy newsgroup, unless
    > the intent is to disrupt or attack others?


    This is the question that no Troll can give a satisfactory answer to.
    Why are they in COLA? They are saboteurs, pure and simple. They may be
    paid for their efforts (Shills) or they may simply be malicious
    miscreants, but either way they have no rational nor moral justification
    for being here.

    > But of course, with the recent news about Microsoft's stealth updates
    > and including the ability to be able to embed advertising as part of
    > the operating system, they would be on a course of self-destruct
    > now? This, for many, is the final straw.


    It has been a /year/ chock-full of final straws for Microsoft
    "customers": The abysmal failure of Vista, the Zune, and the Xbox;
    stolen/compromised Xbox Live accounts; the hideously broken OneCare
    service; the blatant lie about DX10, used to artificially boost Vista
    sales (not that it helped, since gaming on Vista is a waste of time);
    Microsoft "fscking killing" the Autopatcher project with a C&D (that one
    in particular /really/ stung a lot of Windows diehards); the worldwide
    WGA blackout, which highlighted exactly how flawed that system really
    is, and how dire the potential consequences; and now the icing on the
    cake - stealth updates. It's a wonder there are any Windows users left.

    > I would be very interested in knowing what other users around the
    > globe feel about this. Vote with your feet, I say!
    >
    > Since the news broke, my friends, family and club members have been
    > completely incensed with the invasion of privacy Microsoft has
    > subjected them to and they have literally had enough.


    You and those others are not unique, but the infection of Windows is a
    plague that will not be cured quickly - it'll take time to eradicate.

    > Many Linux users and advocates say they do not care what Windows does


    Well I, for one, most certainly /do/ care what Windows (Microsoft) does,
    since Microsoft is Hell-bent on the destruction of anything not totally
    under their control. We /need/ to care, we need to pay attention, and we
    need to fight back, otherwise Microsoft will gleefully "tip us into the
    death spiral". I believe that GPLv3 is an essential weapon in that war,
    as is the social networking phenomenon that helps expose Microsoft's
    corruption of the IT industry. COLA is an intrinsic part of that too.

    > but I think Windows users now care about what the Linux community is
    > doing, with much interest.


    There are those who care because GNU/Linux offers an escape route from
    the oppression of Windows slavery, but there are also those who "care"
    because they perceive GNU/Linux as a threat to their greedy monopolistic
    ideals. Welcome the former, but beware the latter.

    > The year of the Linux desktop is now


    Maybe ... maybe not. It certainly isn't /Microsoft's/ year.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "OOXML is a superb standard"
    | - GNU/Linux traitor, Miguel de Icaza.
    `----

    Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.1-41.fc7
    15:37:08 up 36 days, 14:32, 2 users, load average: 0.11, 0.15, 0.16

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