Re: [News] GNOME Assimilates to Windows?

"The Ghost In The Machine" stated in post
u3ilq4-ucm.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net on 8/31/07 6:36 AM:

> A large chunk of all this, of course, is that Microsoft's
> visual items are what many are used to.
>
> We'll see what happens with this "innovative" "ribbon".

I was a proponent of the ribbon at first - and I still commend MS for trying
something different to better apps with so many features. But in practice I
am not seeing the ribbon work.

With the old system novices saw two lines of buttons - and this was a bit
overwhelming but they could learn which ones to work with. At least to some
extent. Sure, things on those toolbars were not organized particularly well
- for example you had no visual way to know when you had to select the text
first to get an effect or when it would apply to the whole paragraph. Not
perfect... but the ribbon just overwhelms people. You cannot even see all
the buttons at once... you have to jump between button bars (ribbons).
Utterly baffling to many (though the old system "degraded" when people moved
or added or removed bars).

The instant view thing is good in theory but it just makes your page jump
around and distract people. Not as good as I - and MS - hoped it would be.

For advanced users there is little benefit - they were able to use the drop
downs just fine... or use try, undo, try... neither of those new features
really benefits them much at all... and many things now take more clicks...
it is simply less efficient.

So who is the ribbon better for?

--
BU__SH__

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
> So who is the ribbon better for?

To hang myself with. I hate it.

"Tim Murray" stated in post
GDykj.2758$1f.2300@bignews9.bellsouth.net on 1/19/08 7:48 PM:

> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
>> So who is the ribbon better for?
>
> To hang myself with. I hate it.

I was happy to see MS try something new... but in practice it simply does
not seem to work well.

--
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please
everyone. -- Bill Cosby

Snit did eloquently scribble:
> "Tim Murray" stated in post
> GDykj.2758$1f.2300@bignews9.bellsouth.net on 1/19/08 7:48 PM:

>> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
>>> So who is the ribbon better for?
>>
>> To hang myself with. I hate it.

> I was happy to see MS try something new... but in practice it simply does
> not seem to work well.

The stupid thing is...
When SENSIBLE people try something new, they'll include it as an option.
And most likely not an option that's turned on by default.

With microsoft, they just completely dumped the old and forced people to
use the new with no way of going back to the old GUI.

Criminal stupidity.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

spike1 wrote:

> The stupid thing is...
> When SENSIBLE people try something new, they'll include it as an option.
> And most likely not an option that's turned on by default.
>
> With microsoft, they just completely dumped the old and forced people to
> use the new with no way of going back to the old GUI.
>
> Criminal stupidity.

Well, they wouldn't want their customers thinking that they actually had
choices...

"spike1@freenet.co.uk" stated in post
v7eb65-qrf.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com on 1/20/08 1:44 AM:

> Snit did eloquently scribble:
>> "Tim Murray" stated in post
>> GDykj.2758$1f.2300@bignews9.bellsouth.net on 1/19/08 7:48 PM:
>
>>> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
>>>> So who is the ribbon better for?
>>>
>>> To hang myself with. I hate it.
>
>> I was happy to see MS try something new... but in practice it simply does
>> not seem to work well.
>
> The stupid thing is...
> When SENSIBLE people try something new, they'll include it as an option.
> And most likely not an option that's turned on by default.
>
> With microsoft, they just completely dumped the old and forced people to
> use the new with no way of going back to the old GUI.
>
> Criminal stupidity.

It is not just a skin you can have optioned on or off... would be silly to
try to do both at once.

--
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson

On Jan 20, 3:44*am, spi...@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> Snit did eloquently scribble:
>
> > "Tim Murray" stated in post
> > GDykj.2758$1f.2...@bignews9.bellsouth.net on 1/19/08 7:48 PM:
> >> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
> >>> So who is the ribbon better for?
>
> >> To hang myself with. I hate it.
> > I was happy to see MS try something new... but in practice it simply does
> > not seem to work well.
>
> The stupid thing is...
> When SENSIBLE people try something new, they'll include it as an option.
> And most likely not an option that's turned on by default.
>
> With microsoft, they just completely dumped the old and forced people to
> use the new with no way of going back to the old GUI.

Isn't that exactly what Apple did with OS X? :-)

> Criminal stupidity.
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | * spi...@freenet.co.uk * | * Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a * *|
> | * * * * * * * * * * * * *| graphical shell fora 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
> |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally *coded for a 4 bit |
> | * * * * * *in * * * * * *|microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
> | * * Computer Science * * | * * * *can't stand 1 bit of competition. * * * |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jesus" stated in post
4ae4b244-cc50-4a90-b3c2-76413efbb48a...oglegroups.com on 1/20/08
9:38 AM:

> On Jan 20, 3:44*am, spi...@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>> Snit did eloquently scribble:
>>
>>> "Tim Murray" stated in post
>>> GDykj.2758$1f.2...@bignews9.bellsouth.net on 1/19/08 7:48 PM:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:52 -0500, Snit wrote:
>>>>> So who is the ribbon better for?
>>
>>>> To hang myself with. I hate it.
>>> I was happy to see MS try something new... but in practice it simply does
>>> not seem to work well.
>>
>> The stupid thing is...
>> When SENSIBLE people try something new, they'll include it as an option.
>> And most likely not an option that's turned on by default.
>>
>> With microsoft, they just completely dumped the old and forced people to
>> use the new with no way of going back to the old GUI.
>
> Isn't that exactly what Apple did with OS X? :-)

Pretty much... and there are times you have to let go of the old to move
forward.

Adobe is struggling with this issue with Adobe... want to redo the interface
to make it better but not upset the core user base that is already there.
No good answer... but the *wrong* thing to do would be to have multiple
complete UIs that you try to maintain. Utter madness.

--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

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