[News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux ; Why Linux Users Should Be Furious At BBC ,----[ Quote ] | Recently the BBC had a bit of a wake up call regarding numbers and how many | Linux users were really out there. Why does any of this ...

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Thread: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

  1. [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Why Linux Users Should Be Furious At BBC

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Recently the BBC had a bit of a wake up call regarding numbers and how many
    | Linux users were really out there. Why does any of this matter? It has to do
    | with something the BBC provides called the iPlayer. Seriously, relying on
    | ActiveX is so "1990's" that it's painful, and as luck would have it, the
    | Linux users who wish to use this BBC player made sure that the BBC knew that
    | they were making the sought after content inaccessible to those people using
    | Linux.
    |
    | No iPlayer for Linux Users, But There Will Be An Alternative. Based on what I
    | have been able to gather thus far, it looks like we will see an Adobe Flash
    | option coming out soon. Then again, who really cares? Seriously, if the BBC
    | is this foolish to ignore how much Linux growth is taking place both in the
    | UK as well as the surrounding countries, then maybe people ought to be
    | looking elsewhere? Is it because this is indeed, the BBC? So there is the
    | belief that this is the people's media? Up until now, I enjoyed much of what
    | the BBC had to offer, but this entire thing is enough to have pushed me away.
    `----

    http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?op...731&Itemid=449


    Related:

    BBC Director General grilled by MPs on iPlayer

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | During the meeting there is discussion of iPlayer窶冱 total cost to the licence
    | fee-payer - the BBC representatives are unable to give a figure, but start
    | the bidding at ツ」20m, excluding staff costs. Thomson gives incorrect
    | information - that Mac and Linux versions of iPlayer have the same
    | functionality as Windows versions - and has to change his evidence at the
    | end. Perhaps it was this confusion that prompted Dr John Pugh MP to follow up
    | the encounter with a letter direct to Mark Thomson today discussing platform
    | neutrality in greater detail. A copy of this letter has been passed to the
    | Open Rights Group. ツ* ツ* ツ* ツ*
    `----

    http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/...ps-on-iplayer/


    BBC Corrupted

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Today the BBC made it official -- they have been corrupted by Microsoft. With
    | today's launch of the iPlayer, the BBC Trust has failed in its most basic of
    | duties and handed over to Microsoft sole control of the on-line distribution
    | of BBC programming. From today, you will need to own a Microsoft operating
    | system to view BBC programming on the web. This is akin to saying you must
    | own a Sony TV set to watch BBC TV. And you must accept the Digital ツ*
    | Restrictions Management (DRM) that the iPlayer imposes. You simply cannot be
    | allowed to be in control of your computer according to the BBC. ツ* ツ* ツ*
    `----

    http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted


    BBC iPlayer Protests

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Who are the people responsible for creating this mess?
    |
    | ツ* ツ* * Mark Thompson, BBC director general (DG)
    | ツ* ツ* * Erik Huggers, group controller at BBC Future Media & Technology
    | ツ* ツ* * Ashley Highfield, director of new media and technology
    |
    | Right now, there is very considerable concern within the BBC that the actions
    | of the Director General and his team are sending the corporation in the wrong
    | direction. The BBC has been embroiled in a number of recent controversies,
    | all linked back to the DG's leadership. ツ*
    `----

    http://www.defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest

  2. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > Why Linux Users Should Be Furious At BBC
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| Recently the BBC had a bit of a wake up call regarding numbers and how many
    >| Linux users were really out there. Why does any of this matter? It has to do
    >| with something the BBC provides called the iPlayer. Seriously, relying on
    >| ActiveX is so "1990's" that it's painful, and as luck would have it, the
    >| Linux users who wish to use this BBC player made sure that the BBC knew that
    >| they were making the sought after content inaccessible to those people using
    >| Linux.
    >|
    >| No iPlayer for Linux Users, But There Will Be An Alternative. Based on what I
    >| have been able to gather thus far, it looks like we will see an Adobe Flash
    >| option coming out soon. Then again, who really cares? Seriously, if the BBC
    >| is this foolish to ignore how much Linux growth is taking place both in the
    >| UK as well as the surrounding countries, then maybe people ought to be
    >| looking elsewhere? Is it because this is indeed, the BBC? So there is the
    >| belief that this is the people's media? Up until now, I enjoyed much of what
    >| the BBC had to offer, but this entire thing is enough to have pushed me away.
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?op...731&Itemid=449
    >


    I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".

    Heads should roll for this.

    Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >
    > Related:
    >
    > BBC Director General grilled by MPs on iPlayer
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| During the meeting there is discussion of iPlayer?s total cost to the licence
    >| fee-payer - the BBC representatives are unable to give a figure, but start
    >| the bidding at 」20m, excluding staff costs. Thomson gives incorrect
    >| information - that Mac and Linux versions of iPlayer have the same
    >| functionality as Windows versions - and has to change his evidence at the
    >| end. Perhaps it was this confusion that prompted Dr John Pugh MP to follow up
    >| the encounter with a letter direct to Mark Thomson today discussing platform
    >| neutrality in greater detail. A copy of this letter has been passed to the
    >| Open Rights Group. * * * *
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/...ps-on-iplayer/
    >
    >
    > BBC Corrupted
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| Today the BBC made it official -- they have been corrupted by Microsoft. With
    >| today's launch of the iPlayer, the BBC Trust has failed in its most basic of
    >| duties and handed over to Microsoft sole control of the on-line distribution
    >| of BBC programming. From today, you will need to own a Microsoft operating
    >| system to view BBC programming on the web. This is akin to saying you must
    >| own a Sony TV set to watch BBC TV. And you must accept the Digital *
    >| Restrictions Management (DRM) that the iPlayer imposes. You simply cannot be
    >| allowed to be in control of your computer according to the BBC. * * *
    > `----
    >
    > http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted
    >
    >
    > BBC iPlayer Protests
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| Who are the people responsible for creating this mess?
    >|
    >| * * * Mark Thompson, BBC director general (DG)
    >| * * * Erik Huggers, group controller at BBC Future Media & Technology
    >| * * * Ashley Highfield, director of new media and technology
    >|
    >| Right now, there is very considerable concern within the BBC that the actions
    >| of the Director General and his team are sending the corporation in the wrong
    >| direction. The BBC has been embroiled in a number of recent controversies,
    >| all linked back to the DG's leadership. *
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest



    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  3. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____

    > I particularly liked the "More than テつ」20 million" as the figure given
    > for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    > Accepted estimates put the figure at around テつ」100 million, which would
    > suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " テつ」80 million
    > more than テつ」20 million, in fact, coming to about テつ」100 millions of
    > licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >
    > Heads should roll for this.
    >
    > Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?


    What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article about
    this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only requires that
    you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware called IE (no
    Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft
    keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages
    you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and
    forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there
    in the UK?

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | D-I-S-C-O becomes D-I-E S-C-O
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    17:05:02 up 36 days, 5:53, 4 users, load average: 0.27, 0.50, 0.62
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  4. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >
    >> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>
    >> Heads should roll for this.
    >>
    >> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >
    > What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article about
    > this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only requires that
    > you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware called IE (no
    > Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft
    > keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages
    > you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and
    > forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there
    > in the UK?
    >


    The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  5. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>
    >>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>
    >>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>
    >>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >>
    >> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article about
    >> this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only requires that
    >> you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware called IE (no
    >> Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft
    >> keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages
    >> you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and
    >> forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there
    >> in the UK?
    >>

    >
    > The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    > Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    > support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.


    Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?

    --
    Kier


  6. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>
    >>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>
    >>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>
    >>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article about
    >>> this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only requires that
    >>> you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware called IE (no
    >>> Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft
    >>> keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages
    >>> you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and
    >>> forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there
    >>> in the UK?
    >>>

    >>
    >> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.

    >
    > Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >


    Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0, and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux version of Silverlight.

    --
    Tom Shelton

  7. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____

    > On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>
    >>>>> I particularly liked the "More than テつ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around テつ」100 million, which would
    >>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " テつ」80 million
    >>>>> more than テつ」20 million, in fact, coming to about テつ」100 millions of
    >>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>
    >>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article
    >>>> about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    >>>> requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    >>>> called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    >>>> indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    >>>> exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC
    >>>> puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    >>>> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.

    >>
    >> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>

    >
    > Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    > Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    > and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    > version of Silverlight.


    We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Oracle: Linux adoption to accelerate
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Mem: 515500k total, 444168k used, 71332k free, 2028k buffers
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

  8. Re: Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Jan 15, 7:28*pm, Roy Schestowitz
    wrote:
    > ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    > >> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    >
    > >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > >>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____

    >
    > >>>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    > >>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    > >>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, whichwould
    > >>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    > >>>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    > >>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".

    >
    > >>>>> Heads should roll for this.

    >
    > >>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >
    > >>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article
    > >>>> about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    > >>>> requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    > >>>> called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    > >>>> indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    > >>>> exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. TheBBC
    > >>>> puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    > >>>> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?

    >
    > >>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    > >>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    > >>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.

    >
    > >> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?

    >
    > > Especially since his full of total crap... *Silverlight is supported on
    > > Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) *and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    > > and Safari. *And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    > > version of Silverlight.

    >
    > We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >
    > --
    > * * * * * * * * ~~ Best of wishes
    >
    > Roy S. Schestowitz * * *| * Oracle: Linux adoption to acceleratehttp://Schestowitz.com*| * * GNU/Linux * * | * * PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    > Mem: * *515500k total, * 444168k used, * *71332k free, * * 2028k buffers
    > * * *http://iuron.com- next generation of search paradigms- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I wasn't responding to your comments. I was responding to Mark's

    ["The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't"...]

    --
    Tom Shelton

  9. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >
    >> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>>>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article
    >>>>> about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    >>>>> requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    >>>>> called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    >>>>> indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    >>>>> exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC
    >>>>> puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    >>>>> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>
    >>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    >> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    >> version of Silverlight.

    >
    > We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >


    The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".

    Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  10. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>
    >>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>>>>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article
    >>>>>> about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    >>>>>> requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    >>>>>> called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    >>>>>> indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    >>>>>> exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC
    >>>>>> puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    >>>>>> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    >>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    >>> version of Silverlight.

    >>
    >> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>

    >
    > The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    > Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    > spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    > lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >
    > Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >


    You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    this completely wrong statement.

    Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.

    Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari

    --
    Tom Shelton

  11. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____

    > On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than テつ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around テつ」100 million, which would
    >>>>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " テつ」80 million
    >>>>>>>> more than テつ」20 million, in fact, coming to about テつ」100 millions of
    >>>>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not
    >>>>>>> only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy
    >>>>>>> spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is
    >>>>>>> spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who
    >>>>>>> you are and exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about
    >>>>>>> this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and
    >>>>>>> IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    >>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    >>>> version of Silverlight.
    >>>
    >>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>

    >>
    >> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >> spending テつ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>
    >> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>

    >
    > You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    > supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    > this completely wrong statement.
    >
    > Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    > (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.


    No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not the
    mention patent and ditribution issues...

    > Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari


    Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm pretty
    sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    investigates this latest scam.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | WARNING: /dev/null running out of space
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 159 total, 1 running, 157 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  12. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >
    >> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>>>>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>>>>>>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>>>>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not
    >>>>>>>> only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy
    >>>>>>>> spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is
    >>>>>>>> spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who
    >>>>>>>> you are and exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about
    >>>>>>>> this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and
    >>>>>>>> IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    >>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    >>>>> version of Silverlight.
    >>>>
    >>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>> spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>
    >>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>

    >>
    >> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >> this completely wrong statement.
    >>
    >> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.

    >
    > No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not the
    > mention patent and ditribution issues...


    Of course there's no Silverlight for Linux, nor will there ever be.
    However, Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Macs nor does it work
    with Linux.

    Even the BBC's DG said so.

    >
    >> Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari

    >
    > Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm pretty
    > sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    > Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    > investigates this latest scam.
    >


    Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...

    Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  13. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >>
    >>> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than テつ」20 million" as the figure
    >>>>>>>>>> given for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight
    >>>>>>>>>> player. Accepted estimates put the figure at around テつ」100
    >>>>>>>>>> million, which would suggest that Mark Thompson's response should
    >>>>>>>>>> have been " テつ」80 million more than テつ」20 million, in fact, coming
    >>>>>>>>>> to about テつ」100 millions of licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a
    >>>>>>>>>> Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the
    >>>>>>>>> BBC not only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use
    >>>>>>>>> that buggy spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you
    >>>>>>>>> didn't know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush
    >>>>>>>>> about it, but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages you
    >>>>>>>>> visit! People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM
    >>>>>>>>> prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many
    >>>>>>>>> Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported
    >>>>>> on
    >>>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and
    >>>>>> 2.0,
    >>>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the
    >>>>>> Linux version of Silverlight.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>> spending テつ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>
    >>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >>> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >>> this completely wrong statement.
    >>>
    >>> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >>> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.

    >>
    >> No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not
    >> the mention patent and ditribution issues...

    >
    > Of course there's no Silverlight for Linux, nor will there ever be.
    > However, Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Macs nor does it work
    > with Linux.
    >
    > Even the BBC's DG said so.


    No, there isn't. It is called Moonlight
    And it is under development
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    If it starts working, we'll fix it. Pronto.


  14. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    > Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    > spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    > lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >
    > Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.


    Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    balanced Windows-using posters here.

    --
    Kier


  15. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:57:05 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >
    >> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >>>>>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >>>>>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >>>>>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >>>>>>>>> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >>>>>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not
    >>>>>>>> only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy
    >>>>>>>> spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is
    >>>>>>>> spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who
    >>>>>>>> you are and exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about
    >>>>>>>> this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and
    >>>>>>>> IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2.0,
    >>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    >>>>> version of Silverlight.
    >>>>
    >>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>> spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>
    >>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>

    >>
    >> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >> this completely wrong statement.
    >>
    >> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.

    >
    > No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not the
    > mention patent and ditribution issues...


    The Linux player is in development. So unless you can *prove* it is not,
    maybe you'd better stop saying so.

    >
    >> Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari

    >
    > Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm pretty


    What does that have to do with it? It still works on the other platforms
    mentioned.

    > sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    > Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    > investigates this latest scam.


    Maybe you shoul stop and think. There is no 'scam' involved.

    --
    Kier


  16. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:


    > Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >
    > Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?


    Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.

    --
    Kier


  17. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Kier wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >
    >> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>
    >> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >
    > Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.


    No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that

    > And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >

    He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux
    --
    Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.


  18. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Khlmann wrote:

    > Kier wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >>
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>
    >>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >>
    >> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.

    >
    > No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    > He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >
    >> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>

    > He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    > Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux


    Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    Linux in general, knowledgeably.

    --
    Kier


  19. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >
    >> I particularly liked the "More than ツ」20 million" as the figure given
    >> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    >> Accepted estimates put the figure at around ツ」100 million, which would
    >> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " ツ」80 million
    >> more than ツ」20 million, in fact, coming to about ツ」100 millions of
    >> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".
    >>
    >> Heads should roll for this.
    >>
    >> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >
    > What's with ActiveX anyway?
    >


    ActiveX? That's the "hole" that Microsoft innovated, that allows for "rape"
    of your Windows driven computer... It's one of the biggest, single vector
    for third party abuse....

    > It's kind of new to me.
    >


    You're lucky.

    > I saw another article
    > about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    > requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    > called IE (no Firefox support).
    >


    IE supports ActiveX... it's like... a gaping wound and puss... they go hand
    in hand. ActiveX being a proprietary "thing", FireFox/Mozilla doesn't have
    access to it.

    > In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    > indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    > exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC
    > puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    >


    That's how "they" track you... Use windows and ie and get a nice upload from
    MI5... free.

    > How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >


    Time will tell.

    --

    Jerry McBride (jmcbride@mail-on.us)

  20. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Kier wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >> spending ツ」100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>
    >> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.

    >
    > Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    > balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >


    Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?


    --

    Jerry McBride (jmcbride@mail-on.us)

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