[News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux ; -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:25 +0100, Hadron wrote: > Kier writes: > >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote: >> >>> Kier wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan ...

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Thread: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

  1. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

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    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:25 +0100,
    Hadron wrote:
    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>
    >>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.
    >>>
    >>> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >>> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>>
    >>>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>
    >>> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >>> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux

    >>
    >> Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    >> Linux in general, knowledgeably.

    >
    > And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    > suppose?


    Ignoring the obvious typo, Flatfish does the same, it's called salting
    the claim when he does it, the jury's still out on you. Personally, I
    think you're just an asshole who like to rile people up. Which is
    pretty much the textbook definition of a troll.


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication.

  2. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

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    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:19:52 +0000,
    Kier wrote:
    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:57 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    >> ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>
    >>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>
    >>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    >>> correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.

    >>
    >> Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has port 25.
    >> It doesn't mean s***.

    >
    > Tom's history here is that of a genuine Windows/Linux user. I have *no*
    > reason to believe the contrary. Take some deep breaths and stop being so
    > paranoid. Not everyone who uses Windows is the enemy.
    >



    Agreed, Tom's fine. Disagree with him all you want, his opionions/posts
    are IMNSHO, honest. The same can not be said for the many nymed ones.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

  3. Re: Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Jan 16, 2:17 pm, "[H]omer" wrote:
    > Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    >
    > > Some of these prejudices are fairly obvious.

    >
    > > [1] Arcanity. Linux is characterized by some as being abstruse,
    > > arcane, requiring typing in of very odd command sequences that look
    > > like chicken scratchings.

    >
    > Arcane?
    >
    > Like the requirement to use floppy disks to install RAID adaptor drivers
    > during Windows setup? Then having to go out and *buy* a FDD because you
    > haven't even seen one in years, much less used one.
    >
    > Or having a 10 user connection limit?
    >
    > Or having to resort to something even more basic than BusyBox (recovery
    > console) to repair a corrupt configuration file (Registry)?
    >
    > Or still not having an (official) LiveCD for Windows?
    >


    You forgot editing the registry.

  4. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    In article ,
    Kier wrote:
    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:57 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > Tom's history here is that of a genuine Windows/Linux user. I have *no*
    > reason to believe the contrary. Take some deep breaths and stop being so
    > paranoid. Not everyone who uses Windows is the enemy.


    Roy has stated that anyone who says in public they like anything about
    Windows *must* be being paid to say so. It is simply inconceivable to
    Roy that someone might actually *like* parts of Windows.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  5. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

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    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:05:22 -0800,
    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer
    >
    > wrote
    > on Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:17:23 +0000
    >:
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> Some of these prejudices are fairly obvious.
    >>>
    >>> [1] Arcanity. Linux is characterized by some as being abstruse,
    >>> arcane, requiring typing in of very odd command sequences that look
    >>> like chicken scratchings.

    >>
    >> Arcane?
    >>
    >> Like the requirement to use floppy disks to install RAID adaptor drivers
    >> during Windows setup? Then having to go out and *buy* a FDD because you
    >> haven't even seen one in years, much less used one.

    >
    > I'm not sure if that's arcane or just stupid. Of course
    > I'll admit to wondering how one would set up a Linux
    > RAID in any event; I've yet to have to worry about RAID0,
    > let alone the more complicated varieties.
    >


    With Fedora/Redhat/CentOS etc it's easy, simply put the driver disk on
    the PXE boot server as an image Kickstart it from there. Works great,
    ask me how I know

    > Presumably, a tutorial is available Somewhere On The Net(tm).
    > That's the real power of OpenSource; the main problem with
    > such tutorials is that they can get stale (an issue for me
    > with Tomcat and JBoss, and to a lesser extent with Linux
    > proper).
    >
    >>
    >> Or having a 10 user connection limit?

    >
    > There's always a limit (each user has to be stored in
    > RAM, even if only as a socket endpoint), but 10 is just
    > so arbitrary.
    >


    and nothing to do with the capabilities of the hardware.

    It's MS's call, so they can set whatever limit they want. Even a stupid
    one.




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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    You know, there's a word for people who
    think that everyone is out to get them...'
    `Yes! Perceptive!' --Woody Allen

  6. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Jim Richardson espoused:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:19:52 +0000,
    > Kier wrote:
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:57 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>
    >>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    >>>> correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>
    >>> Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has port 25.
    >>> It doesn't mean s***.

    >>
    >> Tom's history here is that of a genuine Windows/Linux user. I have *no*
    >> reason to believe the contrary. Take some deep breaths and stop being so
    >> paranoid. Not everyone who uses Windows is the enemy.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Agreed, Tom's fine. Disagree with him all you want, his opionions/posts
    > are IMNSHO, honest. The same can not be said for the many nymed ones.
    >


    Nah, he's in my killfile because he has a history of trolling. His
    remarks regarding the Silverlight/iPlayer being a good example. They're
    incorrect, misleading etc.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  7. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Jim Richardson espoused:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:25 +0100,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Kier writes:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Kier wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.
    >>>>
    >>>> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >>>> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>>>
    >>>>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >>>> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux
    >>>
    >>> Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    >>> Linux in general, knowledgeably.

    >>
    >> And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    >> suppose?

    >
    > Ignoring the obvious typo, Flatfish does the same, it's called salting
    > the claim when he does it, the jury's still out on you. Personally, I
    > think you're just an asshole who like to rile people up. Which is
    > pretty much the textbook definition of a troll.
    >
    >


    Kier is very much a troll. His agenda is less obvious, but I think one
    can pick out a thread. His behaviour is too consistent for it not to be
    considered, in my view.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  8. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:02 : \____
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:57:05 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than £20 million" as the figure
    >>>>>>>>>>> given for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight
    >>>>>>>>>>> player. Accepted estimates put the figure at around £100 million,
    >>>>>>>>>>> which would suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been "
    >>>>>>>>>>> £80 million more than £20 million, in fact, coming to about £100
    >>>>>>>>>>> millions of licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only
    >>>>>>>>>>> player".
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC
    >>>>>>>>>> not only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that
    >>>>>>>>>> buggy spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't
    >>>>>>>>>> know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it,
    >>>>>>>>>> but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages you visit! People
    >>>>>>>>>> must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and forces
    >>>>>>>>>> you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are
    >>>>>>>>>> there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>>>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and
    >>>>>>> 2.0,
    >>>>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the
    >>>>>>> Linux version of Silverlight.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >>>> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >>>> this completely wrong statement.
    >>>>
    >>>> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >>>> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.
    >>>
    >>> No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not
    >>> the mention patent and ditribution issues...

    >>
    >> The Linux player is in development. So unless you can *prove* it is not,
    >> maybe you'd better stop saying so.
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari
    >>>
    >>> Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm
    >>> pretty

    >>
    >> What does that have to do with it? It still works on the other platforms
    >> mentioned.

    >
    > No, not Linux. There is no Silverlight for Linux. Moonlight is a half-hearted
    > clone with a patent baggage.
    >
    >>> sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    >>> Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    >>> investigates this latest scam.

    >>
    >> Maybe you shoul stop and think. There is no 'scam' involved.

    >
    > Yes, none. There's never bribery, just "marketing help". There's never
    > astroturfing, just "evangelism". There's never a restriction,
    > just "enablement". The BBC can spin this all they want, but I know what they
    > did and why they did this. Ask Erik Microsoft Huggers for starters.
    >


    Ah, there's no point feeding the Kier troll, Roy, he'll just keep you
    going back over and over. Even the BBC's own Director General has
    confirmed most of this, and Kier, and Shelton, *still* won't accept it.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  9. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    [H]omer espoused:
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
    >
    >> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of
    >> making Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows.
    >> After spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the
    >> BBC DG was lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an
    >> "error".

    >
    > Moonlight is little more than a hack on Silverlight, and will likely
    > never have full Silverlight functionality due to licensing and patent
    > restrictions. Therefore the possibility of implementing a version of
    > iPlayer on GNU/Linux is very slim indeed, particularly as the Microsoft
    > DRM infrastructure needed for the "protected" content is unlikely to
    > ever be developed for Linux either.
    >
    > I found a reliable source for the 100 Million figure, by the way:
    >
    > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...0/dlbbc120.xml
    >
    > The "lie" that Thomson made was actually WRT the capabilites of the
    > iPlayer "you can do that [download content] now". The lie WRT the total
    > *cost* of iPlayer was actually made by the woman on his right (whoever
    > she is ... I didn't catch the name). Thomson didn't deny her (false)
    > claim though.
    >


    Ahh, sneaky, he got a prole to lie for him. Nasty b*gger. Considering
    that he's the DG of the BBC, and has been brought to talk about the
    Silverlight/iPlayer, it's truly incredible that he doesn't have the
    figures to hand, wouldn't you say? The guy should be looking for
    another role.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  10. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    [H]omer espoused:
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Jerry McBride spake thusly:
    >
    >> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?


    Quite. He's in the wrong group. That's not a good start point.

    >
    > I use Windows, albeit extremely infrequently. If I didn't, then I'd
    > never have any basis for comparison to criticise its deficiencies
    > compared to GNU/Linux.
    >
    > There are at least two reasonable Windows regulars in COLA, jim@home is
    > one, and AFAICT Tom Shelton is another. Certainly they're not frothing
    > Microsoft fanbois like DooFy and Co.
    >


    Tom Shelton is in my killfile, so clearly he's been trolling in the
    past. I don't recall what, and I don't much care. People who go in
    there rarely come out, for jolly good reason. It's a very very special
    leopard indeed which can change its spots.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  11. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

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    On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:59:47 +0000,
    Mark Kent wrote:
    > Jim Richardson espoused:
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:25 +0100,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> Kier writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Kier wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >>>>> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >>>>> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    >>>> Linux in general, knowledgeably.
    >>>
    >>> And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    >>> suppose?

    >>
    >> Ignoring the obvious typo, Flatfish does the same, it's called salting
    >> the claim when he does it, the jury's still out on you. Personally, I
    >> think you're just an asshole who like to rile people up. Which is
    >> pretty much the textbook definition of a troll.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Kier is very much a troll. His agenda is less obvious, but I think one
    > can pick out a thread. His behaviour is too consistent for it not to be
    > considered, in my view.
    >



    You're barking up the wrong tree there Mark,. Personally, you are a lot
    higher on the troll index than Kier or Tom.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Those who live by the sword are shot by those who don't.

  12. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    So anyway, it was like, 13:21 CET Jan 16 2008, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
    Jerry McBride was all like, "Dude,

    > Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?


    Should posters who use windows be banned from posting here, do you
    think? Disregarding the "how", for the moment, please explain why.

    --
    Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
    09:17:38 up 5 days, 15:55, 2 users, load average: 0.59, 1.13, 0.69
    Linux 2.6.23.12 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

  13. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Johan Lindquist espoused:
    > So anyway, it was like, 13:21 CET Jan 16 2008, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
    > Jerry McBride was all like, "Dude,
    >
    >> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?

    >
    > Should posters who use windows be banned from posting here, do you
    > think? Disregarding the "how", for the moment, please explain why.
    >


    I don't think this is quite what he meant.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  14. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > [H]omer espoused:
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Jerry McBride spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?

    >
    > Quite. He's in the wrong group. That's not a good start point.
    >
    >>
    >> I use Windows, albeit extremely infrequently. If I didn't, then I'd
    >> never have any basis for comparison to criticise its deficiencies
    >> compared to GNU/Linux.
    >>
    >> There are at least two reasonable Windows regulars in COLA, jim@home is
    >> one, and AFAICT Tom Shelton is another. Certainly they're not frothing
    >> Microsoft fanbois like DooFy and Co.
    >>

    >
    > Tom Shelton is in my killfile, so clearly he's been trolling in the
    > past.


    Wrong. You have /perceived/ him as trolling. That does not make it so

    --
    Microsoft: which revised Eula do you want to accept today?


  15. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    >
    > If he wants to learn, or even be "convinced"
    > A trait sadly shared by no windows user except Tom Shelton.
    >

    I'm currently posting this on Windows XP - I am about to revert to Linux
    on both my desktop and laptop. I'm just trying to convince myself that
    my ill-advised "investment" in MS Office 2007 can be written off....
    ;-)

    --
    Say No to OXML
    http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
    Email address not monitored - reply to group

  16. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:58:35 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > Jim Richardson espoused:
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:19:52 +0000,
    >> Kier wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:57 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    >>>>> correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>
    >>>> Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has port 25.
    >>>> It doesn't mean s***.
    >>>
    >>> Tom's history here is that of a genuine Windows/Linux user. I have *no*
    >>> reason to believe the contrary. Take some deep breaths and stop being so
    >>> paranoid. Not everyone who uses Windows is the enemy.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Agreed, Tom's fine. Disagree with him all you want, his opionions/posts
    >> are IMNSHO, honest. The same can not be said for the many nymed ones.
    >>

    >
    > Nah, he's in my killfile because he has a history of trolling. His
    > remarks regarding the Silverlight/iPlayer being a good example. They're
    > incorrect, misleading etc.



    No, what you mean is they disagree with yours. Tom Shelton has *never*
    been a troll.

    --
    Kier


  17. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:59:47 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > Jim Richardson espoused:
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:25 +0100,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> Kier writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Kier wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >>>>> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >>>>> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    >>>> Linux in general, knowledgeably.
    >>>
    >>> And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    >>> suppose?

    >>
    >> Ignoring the obvious typo, Flatfish does the same, it's called salting
    >> the claim when he does it, the jury's still out on you. Personally, I
    >> think you're just an asshole who like to rile people up. Which is
    >> pretty much the textbook definition of a troll.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Kier is very much a troll. His agenda is less obvious, but I think one
    > can pick out a thread. His behaviour is too consistent for it not to be
    > considered, in my view.


    YOur view is incorrect, I'm afraid.

    --
    Kier


  18. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Mark Kent on Thursday 17 January 2008 08:03 : \____

    > [H]omer espoused:
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of
    >>> making Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows.
    >>> After spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the
    >>> BBC DG was lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an
    >>> "error".

    >>
    >> Moonlight is little more than a hack on Silverlight, and will likely
    >> never have full Silverlight functionality due to licensing and patent
    >> restrictions. Therefore the possibility of implementing a version of
    >> iPlayer on GNU/Linux is very slim indeed, particularly as the Microsoft
    >> DRM infrastructure needed for the "protected" content is unlikely to
    >> ever be developed for Linux either.
    >>
    >> I found a reliable source for the £100 Million figure, by the way:
    >>
    >>

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...0/dlbbc120.xml
    >>
    >> The "lie" that Thomson made was actually WRT the capabilites of the
    >> iPlayer "you can do that [download content] now". The lie WRT the total
    >> *cost* of iPlayer was actually made by the woman on his right (whoever
    >> she is ... I didn't catch the name). Thomson didn't deny her (false)
    >> claim though.
    >>

    >
    > Ahh, sneaky, he got a prole to lie for him. Nasty b*gger. Considering
    > that he's the DG of the BBC, and has been brought to talk about the
    > Silverlight/iPlayer, it's truly incredible that he doesn't have the
    > figures to hand, wouldn't you say? The guy should be looking for
    > another role.


    I hear there are many vacancies for high roles at Microsoft. The top staff has
    been quitting the company since the year began and I can't help wondering if
    this has something to do with the seemingly-infinite OOXML corruptions, the
    recent briberies, the stock buybacks, and the VP's illegal inside-trading
    activity, not to mention closure of two branches worldwide for alleged fraud
    and antitrust litigations in the EU.

    Oh, I went off topic there. Anyway, my point was that the DG might find those
    vacancies at Microsoft interesting.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Mem: 515500k total, 445440k used, 70060k free, 1500k buffers
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

  19. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Mark Kent on Thursday 17 January 2008 08:01 : \____

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:02 : \____
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:57:05 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than £20 million" as the figure
    >>>>>>>>>>>> given for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight
    >>>>>>>>>>>> player. Accepted estimates put the figure at around £100 million,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> which would suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been
    >>>>>>>>>>>> " £80 million more than £20 million, in fact, coming to about
    >>>>>>>>>>>> £100 millions of licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft-only player".
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC
    >>>>>>>>>>> not only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that
    >>>>>>>>>>> buggy spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't
    >>>>>>>>>>> know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it,
    >>>>>>>>>>> but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages you visit!
    >>>>>>>>>>> People must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and
    >>>>>>>>>>> forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox
    >>>>>>>>>>> users are there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported
    >>>>>>>> on
    >>>>>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and
    >>>>>>>> 2.0,
    >>>>>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the
    >>>>>>>> Linux version of Silverlight.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >>>>> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >>>>> this completely wrong statement.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >>>>> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.
    >>>>
    >>>> No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not
    >>>> the mention patent and ditribution issues...
    >>>
    >>> The Linux player is in development. So unless you can *prove* it is not,
    >>> maybe you'd better stop saying so.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari
    >>>>
    >>>> Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm
    >>>> pretty
    >>>
    >>> What does that have to do with it? It still works on the other platforms
    >>> mentioned.

    >>
    >> No, not Linux. There is no Silverlight for Linux. Moonlight is a
    >> half-hearted clone with a patent baggage.
    >>
    >>>> sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    >>>> Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    >>>> investigates this latest scam.
    >>>
    >>> Maybe you shoul stop and think. There is no 'scam' involved.

    >>
    >> Yes, none. There's never bribery, just "marketing help". There's never
    >> astroturfing, just "evangelism". There's never a restriction,
    >> just "enablement". The BBC can spin this all they want, but I know what they
    >> did and why they did this. Ask Erik Microsoft Huggers for starters.
    >>

    >
    > Ah, there's no point feeding the Kier troll, Roy, he'll just keep you
    > going back over and over. Even the BBC's own Director General has
    > confirmed most of this, and Kier, and Shelton, *still* won't accept it.


    There's always some odd one who is prepared to defend OJ Simpson. After all,
    he's a good football player, right? What's not to like?

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | #00ff00 Day - Basket Case
    http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.26 0.76 1.21 1/168 27346
    http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative

  20. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ chrisv on Wednesday 16 January 2008 18:33 : \____

    >> Hadron trolled:
    >>
    >>> Kier writes:
    >>>>
    >>>> Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.
    >>>
    >>> Thank you! Some common sense.

    >
    > Why, then, do you attack advocates if they even use Windows on the job,
    > you piece of ****?
    >
    >>> A Windows user SHOULD come here to be convinced of Linux.
    >>>
    >>> Instead they get killfiled by the "advocates".
    >>>
    >>> Ridiculous.

    >
    > Prove that anyone has been kill-filed simply because they were a Windows
    > user, asshole.


    The point here is different. This is a pro-Linux newsgroup. If someone is here
    to defend Windows most of the time, become suspicious.
    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: There are five regular polyhedra
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

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