[News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified - Linux ; * Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo: > Kier wrote: >> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. > > No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll > He is sometimes very much ...

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Thread: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

  1. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    * Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Kier wrote:
    >> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.

    >
    > No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    > He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >
    >> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>

    > He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.


    I'll back him up on that one. He made a really cool clean fluxbox
    desktop and posted it quite awhile back.

    In any case, although there are definite technical differences in Linux
    vice Windows, the overlap in functionality is very high. The
    differences would be less of an issue if Microsoft were a good corporate
    citizen. Maybe once Ballmer is out.

    --
    Don't put too fine a point to your wit for fear it should get blunted.
    -- Miguel de Cervantes

  2. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Jerry McBride writes:

    > Kier wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>
    >>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.

    >>
    >> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>

    >
    > Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?


    "Ummm" to be advocated to?

  3. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >
    >> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>
    >> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >
    > Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    > correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.


    There you go Kier. Mark and Roy doing what they do best : telling lies,
    bull****ting and generally scaring people away. You think they
    "advocate"? Hah. People like them have scared people from Linux for
    years.

  4. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> Kier wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>
    >>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>
    >>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.

    >>
    >> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>
    >>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>

    >> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux

    >
    > Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    > Linux in general, knowledgeably.


    And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    suppose?

  5. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Hadron wrote:

    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?
    >>>>
    >>>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.
    >>>
    >>> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >>> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>>
    >>>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>>
    >>> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.
    >>> Even filth like flatfish, DFS or Hadron Quark claim that they use linux

    >>
    >> Yes, but they are trolls, while he is not. And he has discussed it, and
    >> Linux in general, knowledgeably.

    >
    > And you have been blind when I have posted good things about Linus I
    > suppose?


    As did flatfish. Repeatedly.
    Does not mean a thing. Nobody is dumb enough to not look at the whole of
    your posts.
    And those peg you squarely among the filth here.
    --
    Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?


  6. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:21:18 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:

    > Kier wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>
    >>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.

    >>
    >> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>

    >
    > Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?


    Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.

    --
    Kier


  7. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On 2008-01-16, Jerry McBride wrote:
    > Kier wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>
    >>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.

    >>
    >> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>

    >
    > Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?
    >
    >


    Because I use Linux as well. I mostly just browse the articles, and
    hey, some of the flame wars are fun to read

    --
    Tom Shelton

  8. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On 2008-01-16, Linonut wrote:
    > * Peter Khlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Kier wrote:
    >>> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll.

    >>
    >> No, I don't think he was (or is) a troll
    >> He is sometimes very much pro-MS, but he is certainly entitled to that
    >>
    >>> And if I recall correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.
    >>>

    >> He definately said so, although *that* claim isn't worth much.

    >
    > I'll back him up on that one. He made a really cool clean fluxbox
    > desktop and posted it quite awhile back.
    >


    Thanks! Your recent fluxbox post, made me jump back in to it again. I
    can't believe I ever went back to KDE! Right now,I'm running a slightly
    modified blackend theme...

    > In any case, although there are definite technical differences in Linux
    > vice Windows, the overlap in functionality is very high. The
    > differences would be less of an issue if Microsoft were a good corporate
    > citizen. Maybe once Ballmer is out.
    >


    I agree.

    --
    Tom Shelton

  9. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:39:15 -0600, Tom Shelton wrote:

    > On 2008-01-16, Jerry McBride wrote:
    >> Kier wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>
    >>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>
    >>> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >>> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Because I use Linux as well. I mostly just browse the articles, and
    > hey, some of the flame wars are fun to read


    The radical Linux loonies have adopted a philosophy where you are either
    with them totally or against them.

    To bad they don't practice what they preach, ie: [Homer] refusing to post
    the source code to his bogus weekly COLA stats script.

  10. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:21:18 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:
    >
    >> Kier wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>
    >>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>
    >>> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >>> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?

    >
    > Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.


    Thank you! Some common sense.

    A Windows user SHOULD come here to be convinced of Linux. Instead they
    get killfiled by the "advocates".

    Ridiculous.

  11. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:02 : \____

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:57:05 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    >> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 16 January 2008 07:40 : \____
    >>
    >>> On 2008-01-16, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    >>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >>>>>>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than £20 million" as the figure
    >>>>>>>>>> given for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight
    >>>>>>>>>> player. Accepted estimates put the figure at around £100 million,
    >>>>>>>>>> which would suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been "
    >>>>>>>>>> £80 million more than £20 million, in fact, coming to about £100
    >>>>>>>>>> millions of licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only
    >>>>>>>>>> player".
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Heads should roll for this.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another
    >>>>>>>>> article about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC
    >>>>>>>>> not only requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that
    >>>>>>>>> buggy spyware called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't
    >>>>>>>>> know, IE7 is spyware indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it,
    >>>>>>>>> but it knows who you are and exactly what Web pages you visit! People
    >>>>>>>>> must be told about this. The BBC puts you in DRM prison and forces
    >>>>>>>>> you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous. How many Firefox users are
    >>>>>>>>> there in the UK?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    >>>>>>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    >>>>>>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    >>>>>> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and
    >>>>>> 2.0,
    >>>>>> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the
    >>>>>> Linux version of Silverlight.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>
    >>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> You are a real peice of work, Mark. I pointed you to a link with the
    >>> supported platforms and browsers, yet you continue to insist on making
    >>> this completely wrong statement.
    >>>
    >>> Silverlight supported platfomrs: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Mac OS
    >>> (PPC and Intel). Linux support is in development.

    >>
    >> No, no Silverlight for Linux. And Moonlight ain't Silverlight either. Not
    >> the mention patent and ditribution issues...

    >
    > The Linux player is in development. So unless you can *prove* it is not,
    > maybe you'd better stop saying so.
    >
    >>
    >>> Broswers: IE6, IE7, FireFox (1.5 and 2.0), Safari

    >>
    >> Did you know that Silverlight is said to "work better" with Vista? I'm
    >> pretty

    >
    > What does that have to do with it? It still works on the other platforms
    > mentioned.


    No, not Linux. There is no Silverlight for Linux. Moonlight is a half-hearted
    clone with a patent baggage.

    >> sure I read this somewhere that's reliable. It's about making everyone but
    >> Microsoft a second-class citizen _on the Web_. Not to worry. The EU
    >> investigates this latest scam.

    >
    > Maybe you shoul stop and think. There is no 'scam' involved.


    Yes, none. There's never bribery, just "marketing help". There's never
    astroturfing, just "evangelism". There's never a restriction,
    just "enablement". The BBC can spin this all they want, but I know what they
    did and why they did this. Ask Erik Microsoft Huggers for starters.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | if ("if"=inv("fi")) print("foo/bar")
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

  12. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Hadron wrote:

    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:21:18 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of
    >>>>> making
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG
    >>>>> was lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >>>> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?

    >>
    >> Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.

    >
    > Thank you! Some common sense.
    >
    > A Windows user SHOULD come here to be convinced of Linux.


    If he wants to learn, or even be "convinced"
    A trait sadly shared by no windows user except Tom Shelton.

    > Instead they get killfiled by the "advocates".
    >
    > Ridiculous.


    You should point out which advocates have killfiled whom

    Instead of making ridiculous claims
    --
    Avoid reality at all costs.


  13. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >
    >> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>
    >> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >
    > Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    > correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.


    Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has port 25.
    It doesn't mean s***.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Free software is what's left and what's also right
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 165 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  14. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    ____/ Jerry McBride on Wednesday 16 January 2008 12:19 : \____

    >> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?
    >>

    >
    > Time will tell.


    You're telling me...

    If this is true as the article suggests, then the BBC isn't just assaulting all
    platforms other than Windows but also all browsers other than Internet
    Explorer.... At the taxpayers' expense, preventing people from accessing
    material they have already paid for.

    Outrage, I tell you! :-)

    Search YouTube for 'agents of monopolization' from Georg Greve. That's what the
    BBC became. That's just fascistic, IMHO.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Free software is what's left and what's also right
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 165 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  15. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:57 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >>
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>
    >>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >>
    >> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    >> correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.

    >
    > Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has port 25.
    > It doesn't mean s***.


    Tom's history here is that of a genuine Windows/Linux user. I have *no*
    reason to believe the contrary. Take some deep breaths and stop being so
    paranoid. Not everyone who uses Windows is the enemy.

    --
    Kier


  16. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Kier on Wednesday 16 January 2008 10:04 : \____
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:15:39 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:

    >>
    >>> Silverlight/iPlayer doesn't work with Firefox, Mac, Linux...
    >>>
    >>> Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?

    >>
    >> Tom Shelton is not, and never has been, a troll. And if I recall
    >> correctly, he uses Gentoo as well as Windows.

    >
    > Classic trolls pretend to use or actually use Linux too. Microsoft has
    > port 25. It doesn't mean s***.
    >


    Trolls post trollish stuff. Tom Shelton certainly does not
    --
    Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to sue us,
    would you like me to delete all of your files?"


  17. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > Roy - stop feeding the shelton troll, please?


    Tom's not a troll. He's ok.


  18. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    > Hadron trolled:
    >
    >> Kier writes:
    >>>
    >>> Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.

    >>
    >> Thank you! Some common sense.


    Why, then, do you attack advocates if they even use Windows on the job,
    you piece of ****?

    >> A Windows user SHOULD come here to be convinced of Linux.
    >>
    >> Instead they get killfiled by the "advocates".
    >>
    >> Ridiculous.


    Prove that anyone has been kill-filed simply because they were a Windows
    user, asshole.


  19. Re: [News] Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:43:28 +0100
    :
    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:21:18 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:24 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    >>>>> Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    >>>>> spending £100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    >>>>> lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Stop lying, Mark. I'm not a troll, and Tom Shellton is one of the most
    >>>> balanced Windows-using posters here.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Hmmm.... why is a windows using poster, here in COLA?

    >>
    >> Because he also uses Linux. The two are not always mutually exclusive.

    >
    > Thank you! Some common sense.
    >
    > A Windows user SHOULD come here to be convinced of Linux. Instead they
    > get killfiled by the "advocates".
    >
    > Ridiculous.


    There's a difference between being convinced -- which
    might be done easily enough by lurking, all other things
    being equal -- and trying to throw a monkey wrench in
    communications by disparaging Linux and/or appealing
    to prejudice.

    Some of these prejudices are fairly obvious.

    [1] Arcanity. Linux is characterized by some as being abstruse,
    arcane, requiring typing in of very odd command sequences that
    look like chicken scratchings.
    [2] Slow. For various reasons some think other solutions are faster.
    [3] Lacking in applications.
    [4] Cannot support devices.
    [5] Cannot support users.
    [6] Is not as good as that other solution.

    I'll attempt to address these one at a time.

    [1] Arcanity. Sure, Linux qua Linux the kernel is arcane.
    Does everyone know int $0x80? I doubt it. However,
    given what most mean by "Linux" around here (really,
    Ubuntu, OpenSuSE, Fedora, or in my case Gentoo), the
    arcanity is put in its place, largely hidden unless
    one wants to dig for it. It's not perfect, but then
    what is?

    [2] Slow. By all accounts Linux is by and large *faster*
    than that other solution, especially when that other
    solution gobbles up all of one's RAM and asks for more.
    (Bear in mind memory access is a million times faster
    than disk access. Once a machine starts to swap, one's
    going to slow down regardless of OS.)

    [3] Lacking in applications. This is probably Linux's
    most difficult point but there's a fair number of
    competition now in, among other places, spreadsheets,
    of which there are at least three: MS's Excel,
    Gnumeric, and OpenOffice's oocalc). Games might be
    tougher to crack but a high-end gamester has strange
    needs anyway, mostly at the hardware level. For its
    part, however, Linux does have excellent OpenGL
    support, and some games have made it over here --
    Quake 4, DOOM 3, and Unreal Tournament come to mind.
    And of course Linux is almost completely immune to
    packet-attacking worms and classical MBR and executable
    infection viruses. One still has to look out for
    trojans, though these are also partly eviscerated
    as well; trojans can't infect the system though they
    can trash the user's account. There's also scripting
    interpreters that Badbunny can attempt to leverage.

    (Personally, I think scripts in a spreadsheet are
    akin to attaching roller skates to the space shuttle;
    it doesn't quite fit.)

    [4] Cannot support devices. The only devices Linux can't
    support are the more esoteric ones nowadays. I have
    a Winmodem that Linux can't support for some reason,
    for example. Such considerations are becoming
    increasingly irrelevant. Of course if one is purchasing
    a new unit, one will want to exercise some care so
    as to maximally utilize its devices.

    [5] Cannot support users. Well, it's a communications
    exercise, after all; a user adapts to an OS no
    matter what, really. I type 'ls' without thinking,
    for example. Admittedly, I'm not sure how Linux would
    support users using e.g. a phone call (and Linux wouldn't
    anyway; one has to call Ubuntu, SuSE (Novell), Red Hat,
    or Gentoo and open a support ticket -- and there's no
    guarantees in the case of Gentoo although one can file a
    bug report, and someone might look at it; one can also
    submit a fix, though I'd have to look up the details.)

    [6] Goodness is in the eye of the beholder. OSX in
    particular is very attractive visually, and has some
    interesting capabilities that Linux distros might
    do well to borrow. Windows is of course ubiquitous,
    and Linux applications might borrow some of Windows'
    file formats. (More likely, Linux apps will be
    able to read them, but write standard formats.)
    Old Unix scripts are still out there; Linux might
    run some of them (depending on how many proprietary
    commands are in those scripts). Internet Explorer
    is demostrably inferior to Mozilla in many areas,
    and might be superior in a few.

    Make of all this what one will, but Wintrools come by often.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Error 16: Not enough space on file system to delete file(s)

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  20. Re: Linux Fury at MSBBC Claimed to be Justified

    On Jan 16, 12:23 am, Mark Kent wrote:
    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >
    >
    >
    > > ____/ Tom Shelton on Tuesday 15 January 2008 23:52 : \____

    >
    > >> On 2008-01-15, Kier wrote:
    > >>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:06 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    >
    > >>>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > >>>>> ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:23 : \____

    >
    > >>>>>> I particularly liked the "More than 20 million" as the figure given
    > >>>>>> for the skin the BBC bought for Microsoft's Silverlight player.
    > >>>>>> Accepted estimates put the figure at around 100 million, which would
    > >>>>>> suggest that Mark Thompson's response should have been " 80 million
    > >>>>>> more than 20 million, in fact, coming to about 100 millions of
    > >>>>>> licence-fee cash spent on a skin for a Microsoft-only player".

    >
    > >>>>>> Heads should roll for this.

    >
    > >>>>>> Also, how can a DG /not/ know what the numbers were?

    >
    > >>>>> What's with ActiveX anyway? It's kind of new to me. I saw another article
    > >>>>> about this later and they both seem to suggest that the BBC not only
    > >>>>> requires that you use Windows, but also that you use that buggy spyware
    > >>>>> called IE (no Firefox support). In case you didn't know, IE7 is spyware
    > >>>>> indeed... Microsoft keeps hush-hush about it, but it knows who you are and
    > >>>>> exactly what Web pages you visit! People must be told about this. The BBC
    > >>>>> puts you in DRM prison and forces you to use Windows and IE. Outrageous.
    > >>>>> How many Firefox users are there in the UK?

    >
    > >>>> The Microsoft Silverlight/iPlayer wasn't ever intended to promote
    > >>>> Firefox, rather, it was intended to use BBC Licence-payer cash to
    > >>>> support Microsoft's attack on Firefox, Mac and Linux.

    >
    > >>> Do you have any actual proof for this silly claim?

    >
    > >> Especially since his full of total crap... Silverlight is supported on
    > >> Windows and Mac OS X (PPC and Intel) and by IE6,IE7, FireFox 1.5 and 2..0,
    > >> and Safari. And MS is working with Novel to produce Moonlight - the Linux
    > >> version of Silverlight.

    >
    > > We're talking about ActiveX (I was anyway).

    >
    > The point remains that Microsoft have never had any intention of making
    > Silverlight/iPlayer functional on anything other than Windows. After
    > spending 100 million of licence-fee payer's cash, even the BBC DG was
    > lying to MPs about this, although later claimed an "error".
    >
    > Kier is here to troll, as is Shelton. They're best ignored, Roy.
    >
    > --
    > | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    > | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    > | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    > | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |


    I would like to post a partial apology... Reading more about the
    situation, you are correct in that iPlayer is windows only (well,
    actually that's only partially true - the mac version has been
    released, but it doesn't support downloads yet). I thought you were
    talking about silverlight - which does in fact work on other platforms
    and browsers. So, the problem is with the iPlayer not with
    silverlight. But, the Linux version and Mac (downloadable content)
    version are expected to be operational sometime this year.

    So, there you have it.

    --
    Tom Shelton

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