[News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It - Linux ; A Linux-powered iPhone ,----[ Quote ] | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during iPhone’s | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone right on | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at ...

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Thread: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It

  1. [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It

    A Linux-powered iPhone

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during iPhone’s
    | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone right on
    | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it had
    | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    | already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone was
    | denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize someone
    | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    | else’s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve agreed. It
    | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    | would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a much more
    | powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    | combination of beauty and brains.
    |
    | Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some photos
    | of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a Firefox web
    | browser.
    `----

    http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html

    And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and Macs.
    Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because it's too good
    and difficult to avoid).

    Quote:

    "Linux is a very complete and sophisticated operating system. And there is a
    lot of work being done to improve it in and of itself, particularly to make it
    easier to use and easier for people to set up on their personal computers."

    --Paul Maritz, top executive at Microsoft


    Related:

    It's unofficial: Microsoft bets business on Linux

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | What the press statement didn't mention is that Aruba mobility
    | controllers run the Linux operating system which Microsoft has
    | aggressively targeted as being inferior to Windows as part of
    | its "Get the Facts" marketing campaign.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Pandey's appraisal of Aruba's technology is in stark contrast to
    | Microsoft's "Get the Facts" rhetoric which places Windows as a more secure,
    | and higher-performing choice over Linux.
    `----

    http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.p...96;fp;2;fpid;1


    Debian Powers the world

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Looks like Microsoft Researches new website InkblotPasswords[.com] , aimed at
    | helping users come up with hard to crack passwords ( while at the same time
    | saving them in a database ) is powered by Debian and Python
    `----

    http://www.imbrandon.com/2007.12.05/...the-world.html


    Breaking: Newsvine Acquired By Microsoft — What is Microsoft going to do with
    the Linux Hosted site they just bought?

    ,----[ Quote
    | The funny thing is, The site is hosted on Debian Linux...
    `----

    http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=383


    Top secret: Microsoft's $6 billion open source play

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | This month's announcement by Microsoft to acquire digital marketing
    | services firm aQuantive has revealed little on how the companies
    | will integrate their IT, but inside information indicates the deal
    | may be Redmond's largest commitment to free software.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Whether the businesses are complementary or not, Microsoft's integration
    | work will no doubt involve a lot of open source software used by aQuantive.
    |
    | Information available from Atlas' Web site indicates the Internet software
    | company employs extensive use of open source software including Linux,
    | Apache, MySQL, and Solaris.
    |
    | Software engineers at Atlas' Raleigh office do client/server development in
    | C and C++, software maintenance and "scripting", and developing and
    | maintaining custom reporting capabilities.
    `----

    http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.p...31;fp;2;fpid;1


    Microsoft.com uses/used Fedora GNU/Linux here:

    https://www. microsoft.com/ servers/ faces/default.aspx

  2. Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It

    ____/ [H]omer on Friday 11 January 2008 13:37 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >
    >> And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and
    >> Macs.

    >
    > What about the "religion" that compels Windows fanbois to invade COLA to
    > sabotage it, write poison-pen comments on blogs, stalk Linux advocates
    > on Digg, and defend one of the most reprehensible companies in history,
    > whilst stubbornly enduring its abominable software, rather than using
    > the infinitely superior GNU/Linux for free.
    >
    > Talk about fanaticisms ... those guys are lunatics!
    >
    > And they're just the *amateurs*. There's an army of *professional*
    > Shills out there too; writing blogs; pretending to be journalists,
    > analysts, or researchers; working at patent-troll shell companies like
    > IP Innovation LLC and Lancor; coercing politicians to adopt corporate
    > policy as law (lobbying); providing free advertising, and more general
    > corporate promotion ... at the taxpayers expense (MSBBC); giving votes
    > for cash (OOXML), and basically infesting every level of society to
    > further the agenda of that crime syndicate headed by Microsoft.
    >
    > Even fundamentalist Muslims look like Boy Scouts, compared to the
    > religious fanaticism of Microsoft Shills and fanbois.


    Always remember what Microsoft named its (now leaked) memos: "Evangelism is
    War". Even the word "Jihad" (holy war) is spread around these documents.

    Remember Planet of the Apes?



    ,----[ Quote ]
    | When Emory University primatologist Frans de Waal read a news story that
    | said Microsoft's chief executive, Steve Ballmer, had hurled a chair
    | across the room on hearing an employee was going to work for rival
    | Google, the scientist immediately made a connection with his own
    | research: "When I see such behavior, I think of a chimpanzee."
    `----

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...nav=rss_nation


    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Slashdot is standard-compliant... in Japan"
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    17:00:01 up 32 days, 5:48, 4 users, load average: 0.11, 0.73, 1.38
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine

  3. Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    In article <1476009.382pMtDLz1@schestowitz.com>,
    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > A Linux-powered iPhone
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    > | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during
    > | iPhone’s
    > | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone right
    > | on
    > | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it had
    > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > | already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone was
    > | denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize someone
    > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > | else’s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve agreed.
    > | It
    > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > | would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a much
    > | more
    > | powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    > | combination of beauty and brains.
    > |
    > | Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some photos
    > | of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a Firefox web
    > | browser.
    > `----
    >
    > http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html
    >
    > And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and Macs.
    > Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because it's too good
    > and difficult to avoid).


    Where does the article (or the original that your link is based on) say
    it was religious? Did you read Steve's mind to figure that out?

    In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?
    There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    unauthorized modifications to the software. Apple used non-Apple
    firmware in many iPods, so they are not adverse to going outside the
    company if there is a good reason.

    The best case scenario for someone building a Linux-based phone that
    isn't going to be fully open is that they have to spend extra effort
    keeping the GPL stuff separate from the non-GPL stuff (and they are
    going to be bad-mouthed for "Tivoization"). And that's the best case.
    Worst case is that some external force (the carrier their phone is for,
    or worse, a government regulatory agency) subjects them to requirements
    incompatible with GPL, and then they are screwed.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  4. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:06:07 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:

    > In article <1476009.382pMtDLz1@schestowitz.com>,
    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> A Linux-powered iPhone
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>| The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during
    >>| iPhone’s
    >>| software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone right
    >>| on
    >>| time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it had
    >>| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>| already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone was
    >>| denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize someone
    >>| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>| else’s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve agreed.
    >>| It
    >>| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>| would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a much
    >>| more
    >>| powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    >>| combination of beauty and brains.
    >>|
    >>| Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some photos
    >>| of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a Firefox web
    >>| browser.
    >> `----
    >>
    >> http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html
    >>
    >> And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and Macs.
    >> Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because it's too good
    >> and difficult to avoid).

    >
    > Where does the article (or the original that your link is based on) say
    > it was religious? Did you read Steve's mind to figure that out?
    >
    > In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?
    > There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    > legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    > unauthorized modifications to the software. Apple used non-Apple
    > firmware in many iPods, so they are not adverse to going outside the
    > company if there is a good reason.
    >
    > The best case scenario for someone building a Linux-based phone that
    > isn't going to be fully open is that they have to spend extra effort
    > keeping the GPL stuff separate from the non-GPL stuff (and they are
    > going to be bad-mouthed for "Tivoization"). And that's the best case.
    > Worst case is that some external force (the carrier their phone is for,
    > or worse, a government regulatory agency) subjects them to requirements
    > incompatible with GPL, and then they are screwed.


    I thought Rex Ballard invented the iPhone?
    Weren't the plans for it stolen from the trunk of his car or something?
    That's probably Roy's 'inside source' for his 'facts'.
    I'm going to forward Roy's comments along with the links to Apple Corp. and
    see what they say about it.

  5. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    Appil Corporation Asstroturfer Tim Smith wrote on behalf of Appil
    Corporation:

    > In article <1476009.382pMtDLz1@schestowitz.com>,
    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> A Linux-powered iPhone
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >> | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during
    >> | iPhone’s
    >> | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone
    >> | right on
    >> | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it had
    >> | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> | already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone
    >> | was denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize
    >> | someone
    >> |

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> | else’s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve
    >> | agreed. It ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> | would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a
    >> | much more
    >> | powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    >> | combination of beauty and brains.
    >> |
    >> | Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some
    >> | photos of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a
    >> | Firefox web browser.
    >> `----
    >>
    >> http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html
    >>
    >> And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and Macs.
    >> Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because it's too
    >> good and difficult to avoid).

    >
    > Where does the article (or the original that your link is based on) say
    > it was religious? Did you read Steve's mind to figure that out?



    Dumbo, don't you know what religion is?



    > In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?



    And how do you know this?


    > There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    > legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    > unauthorized modifications to the software.


    Thats not GPL issue - its a carrier issue.

    > Apple used non-Apple
    > firmware in many iPods, so they are not adverse to going outside the
    > company if there is a good reason.



    Utterly FALSE! They got all religious about Linux.


    > The best case scenario for someone building a Linux-based phone that
    > isn't going to be fully open is that they have to spend extra effort
    > keeping the GPL stuff separate from the non-GPL stuff (and they are
    > going to be bad-mouthed for "Tivoization"). And that's the best case.
    > Worst case is that some external force (the carrier their phone is for,
    > or worse, a government regulatory agency) subjects them to requirements
    > incompatible with GPL, and then they are screwed.


    Utter bwallocks!
    The best thing is to make something like TrollTech Greephone - 100% open
    as has been done; and not just by them but by many others,
    that are now gathering hoards of open source developers.

    The worst thing is not allow open source developers near it and
    make it less competitve and flat on features.
    It is as cut and dry as that.



  6. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    7 writes:

    > Appil Corporation Asstroturfer Tim Smith wrote on behalf of Appil
    > Corporation:
    >
    >> In article <1476009.382pMtDLz1@schestowitz.com>,
    >> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>> A Linux-powered iPhone
    >>>
    >>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during
    >>> | iPhone’s
    >>> | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone
    >>> | right on
    >>> | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it had
    >>> | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> | already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone
    >>> | was denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize
    >>> | someone
    >>> |

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> | else’s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve
    >>> | agreed. It ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> | would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a
    >>> | much more
    >>> | powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    >>> | combination of beauty and brains.
    >>> |
    >>> | Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some
    >>> | photos of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a
    >>> | Firefox web browser.
    >>> `----
    >>>
    >>> http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html
    >>>
    >>> And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and Macs.
    >>> Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because it's too
    >>> good and difficult to avoid).

    >>
    >> Where does the article (or the original that your link is based on) say
    >> it was religious? Did you read Steve's mind to figure that out?

    >
    >
    > Dumbo, don't you know what religion is?
    >


    It's not him who used the word. He was just asking where it was declared
    as religious. i.e any place other than Spamowitz's corrupted
    imagination?

    >
    >
    >> In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?

    >
    >
    > And how do you know this?


    He's not the one making unfounded accusations. Simple, even for a banjo
    plucker like you I would have thought.

    >
    >> There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    >> legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    >> unauthorized modifications to the software.

    >
    > Thats not GPL issue - its a carrier issue.


    It most definitely IS a GPL issue. The issue being that the GPL is not
    adhered to.


  7. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    Appil Corporation Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Appil Corporation:

    > 7 writes:
    >
    >> Appil Corporation Asstroturfer Tim Smith wrote on behalf of Appil
    >> Corporation:
    >>
    >>> In article <1476009.382pMtDLz1@schestowitz.com>,
    >>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>> A Linux-powered iPhone
    >>>>
    >>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>> | The most interesting part on Wired magazine's revelation was during
    >>>> | iPhone??s
    >>>> | software development. On a very tight deadline to finish the iPhone
    >>>> | right on
    >>>> | time, Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux, since it
    >>>> | had
    >>>> | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> | already been rewritten for use on mobile phones. But, Linux on iPhone
    >>>> | was denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to
    >>>> | utilize someone
    >>>> |

    >>

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> | else??s software. Just imagine the endless possibilities had Steve
    >>>> | agreed. It ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> | would have been a big break for Linux, and iPhone could have been a
    >>>> | much more
    >>>> | powerful and smarter mobile device. It would have been a jaw-dropping
    >>>> | combination of beauty and brains.
    >>>> |
    >>>> | Since Linux powered iPhone is now far from reality, I have here some
    >>>> | photos of make-believe iPhone running with a GNOME desktop and with a
    >>>> | Firefox web browser.
    >>>> `----
    >>>>
    >>>> http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ed-iphone.html
    >>>>
    >>>> And they say Linux users are too 'religious' to choose Windows and
    >>>> Macs. Microsoft, unlike Apple, uses a lot of Linux in-house (because
    >>>> it's too good and difficult to avoid).
    >>>
    >>> Where does the article (or the original that your link is based on) say
    >>> it was religious? Did you read Steve's mind to figure that out?

    >>
    >>
    >> Dumbo, don't you know what religion is?
    >>

    >
    > It's not him who used the word. He was just asking where it was declared
    > as religious. i.e any place other than Spamowitz's corrupted
    > imagination?
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>> In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?

    >>
    >>
    >> And how do you know this?

    >
    > He's not the one making unfounded accusations. Simple, even for a banjo
    > plucker like you I would have thought.
    >
    >>
    >>> There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    >>> legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    >>> unauthorized modifications to the software.

    >>
    >> Thats not GPL issue - its a carrier issue.

    >
    > It most definitely IS a GPL issue. The issue being that the GPL is not
    > adhered to.



    Dumbo its a carrier/design religion issue - there are plenty
    of other open source phones that have NO issues - like green phone
    and many others following in its footsteps.



  8. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    In article ,
    7 wrote:
    > > In particular, how do you know he wasn't concerned with legal issues?

    >
    >
    > And how do you know this?


    There is no possible way to parse your sentence that makes it
    understandable as a response to my question. Would you like to try
    again?

    >
    >
    > > There has been some question as to whether Linux phones are actually
    > > legal under GPL, at least on carriers that lock down the phones against
    > > unauthorized modifications to the software.

    >
    > Thats not GPL issue - its a carrier issue.
    >
    > > Apple used non-Apple
    > > firmware in many iPods, so they are not adverse to going outside the
    > > company if there is a good reason.

    >
    >
    > Utterly FALSE! They got all religious about Linux.


    Most iPods use an operating system developed by Pixo. Pixo is not
    Apple.


    > > The best case scenario for someone building a Linux-based phone that
    > > isn't going to be fully open is that they have to spend extra effort
    > > keeping the GPL stuff separate from the non-GPL stuff (and they are
    > > going to be bad-mouthed for "Tivoization"). And that's the best case.
    > > Worst case is that some external force (the carrier their phone is for,
    > > or worse, a government regulatory agency) subjects them to requirements
    > > incompatible with GPL, and then they are screwed.

    >
    > Utter bwallocks!
    > The best thing is to make something like TrollTech Greephone - 100% open
    > as has been done; and not just by them but by many others,
    > that are now gathering hoards of open source developers.
    >
    > The worst thing is not allow open source developers near it and
    > make it less competitve and flat on features.
    > It is as cut and dry as that.


    Try actually understanding what you respond to.


    --
    --Tim Smith

  9. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:24:04 +0100, Hadron wrote:


    > He's not the one making unfounded accusations. Simple, even for a banjo
    > plucker like you I would have thought.


    Banjo plucker?
    Is this 7 ?

    http://www.destgulch.com/movies/deliver/deliv01.jpg

    Just curious.

  10. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    Moshe Goldfarb writes:

    > On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:24:04 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >
    >> He's not the one making unfounded accusations. Simple, even for a banjo
    >> plucker like you I would have thought.

    >
    > Banjo plucker?
    > Is this 7 ?
    >
    > http://www.destgulch.com/movies/deliver/deliv01.jpg
    >
    > Just curious.


    No, that's his clever cousin Abe.

  11. Re: Roy uses his psychic powers again (was Re: [News] Apple Wanted Linux for the iPhone, But Was Too 'Religious' About It)

    On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:18:54 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:24:04 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> He's not the one making unfounded accusations. Simple, even for a banjo
    >>> plucker like you I would have thought.

    >>
    >> Banjo plucker?
    >> Is this 7 ?
    >>
    >> http://www.destgulch.com/movies/deliver/deliv01.jpg
    >>
    >> Just curious.

    >
    > No, that's his clever cousin Abe.


    Oh Ok I C Now.

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