[Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways... - Linux

This is a discussion on [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways... - Linux ; A rant, indeed a rant. [1] Microsoft Windows Visual Studio 2008. I'll give it points for working, and they have improved the GUI in spots (the list of libraries can now be edited as an actual *list*, for starters). Unfortunately ...

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  1. [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    A rant, indeed a rant.

    [1] Microsoft Windows Visual Studio 2008. I'll give
    it points for working, and they have improved the GUI
    in spots (the list of libraries can now be edited as an
    actual *list*, for starters). Unfortunately it wants to
    convert old format project files and has no backwards
    compatibility mode for project files. MAKE files do
    not have this problem. Not sure regarding GTK/Glade or
    Kdevelop but suspect they're better off in this area, too.

    [2] VS2008 has the bad habit of specifying paths with
    respect to its destination, as opposed to VS2005 which
    specified them with respect to the source. This meant that
    I had to manually retype in paths often. I'll admit to
    some curiosity as to how to properly handle the multihost
    compilation and cross-compilation problems, but at least
    with a Makefile one has a fighting chance.

    [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as

    for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    { ... }
    printf("%d\n", i);

    and

    std::vector::iterator it = NULL;

    to compile.

    The former has since been removed (the variable 'i' is
    local to the for loop now); the latter used to work as
    the iterator was a pointer; however, now it's a class.

    Blech. Not sure if g++ was much better in this regard,
    admittedly. I think I can get by without fixing this
    by reinstalling 2005. Yeah, there's a great option. :-P

    [4] The defragmenter is very weird today; the report says
    "no files were unable to defragment" but the display
    clearly shows a red band, indicating that there's one
    file that has too many fragments. Also, the defragmenter
    defragmented the files but still left the free space rather
    fragmented. I'm going to try to rerun the defragmenter
    after creating a 2 GiB file (I'm running it without a paging
    file at the moment). Of course this will tip it over into
    the below-15% area, which it doesn't like.

    At this point, the best I can do is create 256Mi chunks and
    let it play with those; at least that way I can guarantee
    the chunks are clear.

    A plus: it will create the paging file without a reboot.

    A minus: it's in a weird spot: Control Panel, Change a
    Setting, Performance and Maintenance (OK so far, actually),
    System (as if I'm setting things for someone else's
    system??), Advanced, Performance (what, again?), Advanced
    (again again??), Virtual Memory at the bottom. One can
    specify Custom Size (I would recommend a fixed size),
    system managed size (oh, hello pagefile fragmentation),
    or no paging file (which the system apparently does honor
    now -- but one needs to reboot).

    Not sure if Linux has -- or needs -- an analogue to this
    weirdness. Those "in the know" can do

    dd if=/dev/zero of=/var/tmp/scratch_space bs=1048576 count=size
    mkswap /var/tmp/scratch_space
    swapon /var/tmp/scratch_space

    where size is in megabytes. To remove this,

    swapoff /var/tmp/scratch_space
    rm /var/tmp/scratch_space

    Note that scratch_space must be on a local drive.

    Those not in the know probably should just let the
    installer create the default -- about 2x one's RAM --
    as opposed to allowing for auto-extension, fragmentation,
    system malfunctions, and other such stupidity which is a
    little too common on Windows.

    [5] VS2005 and VS2008 like to copy files into a temp area,
    then extract them to the final location. This tends to use
    more space than it really needs to. To be fair, the other
    method of direct extraction into the destination probably
    gives Windows some interesting headaches. (Linux doesn't
    care too much as long as the package is guaranteed new.)

    Yep, Windows is indeed state of the art. Can we shoot it
    now or wait until the end of the election? :-P

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net -- insert random irritations here
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #992381111:
    while(bit&BITMASK) ;

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  2. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...


    "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    news:ijpv45-rk9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >A rant, indeed a rant.
    >


    Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing proprietary Microsoft
    software but then complains how evil Windows is.



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Dusty Hendrix

    wrote
    on Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:44:09 -0500
    <477d2f54$0$26043$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
    >
    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    > news:ijpv45-rk9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>

    >
    > Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing proprietary Microsoft
    > software but then complains how evil Windows is.
    >


    OK, so you're on record as not liking alternatives, then?

    Good.

    Let me know when Microsoft puts Symbian out of business.
    Last I heard Symbian has about 70% of the mobile OS market.

    I'll give credit to Microsoft for advancing the home
    game console market with their XBox but their Zune has
    been less than spectacular, and the Orange Phone was the
    butt of jokes for awhile. Nevertheless, the preferred
    direction obviously is ensuring that we have one OS vendor,
    everywhere, indivisible, with Windows and Office for all.

    Simplifies things enormously for everyone. (FSVO "everyone".)

    Better tell Apple Computer as well. They really need to
    modernize their MacOSX; it's so crappy it doesn't even
    run on standard PC hardware (it can run on EFI, though,
    and presumably that's where the PC is going) and has such
    capabilities as emulating Windows and Unix, plus 99 cents
    per song.

    And of course there's other pieces of equipment, such
    as the Amiga, which are fondly remembered and may be
    resurrected in some form.

    Can't have that; that just doesn't make sense from a
    business standpoint.

    Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    New Technology? Not There. No Thanks.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  4. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    * Dusty Hendrix fired off this tart reply:

    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    > news:ijpv45-rk9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>A rant, indeed a rant.

    >
    > Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing proprietary Microsoft
    > software but then complains how evil Windows is.


    You've posted the last bit of horse-ass stupidity I'll be seeing.

    Idiot.

    --
    Dusty has expired. Please reactivate Dusty by paying $0.25
    and entering the 30-character activation key that will be emailed to
    your account.

  5. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    * The Ghost In The Machine fired off this tart reply:

    > A rant, indeed a rant.
    >
    > Unfortunately it wants to
    > convert old format project files and has no backwards
    > compatibility mode for project files.


    Of course. They want to nudge everyone on to the new version.

    > [2] VS2008 has the bad habit of specifying paths with
    > respect to its destination, as opposed to VS2005 which
    > specified them with respect to the source. This meant that
    > I had to manually retype in paths often.


    Wow, so MS finally borked that nice feature!

    > [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as
    >
    > for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    > { ... }
    > printf("%d\n", i);
    >
    > and
    >
    > std::vector::iterator it = NULL;
    >
    > to compile.


    Wow, that's a regression from our 2002 version, I think.

    --
    This sig has expired. Please reactivate your sig by paying $0.25
    and entering the 30-character activation key that will be emailed to
    your account.

  6. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 03 January 2008 19:28 : \____

    > Yep, Windows is indeed state of the art. *Can we shoot it
    > now or wait until the end of the election? *:-P


    Windows defines the 'art'. Seriously now, the main issue is that when something
    becomes consistent enough (even buggy behaviour relating to leap years), it is
    perceived as a necessary evil, a standard, or a norm. Some of the things you
    mention above are not seen as odd given consistency. The thought of PCs
    running for years without a reboot seems alien to most people. Elegant
    XML-structured files (as opposed to tree with hexadecimals or even
    binaries) --- likewise.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: 21978 x 4 = 21978 backwards
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    03:05:02 up 24 days, 15:53, 4 users, load average: 0.81, 1.33, 1.84
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  7. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 03 January 2008 21:28 : \____

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Dusty Hendrix
    >
    > wrote
    > on Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:44:09 -0500
    > <477d2f54$0$26043$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
    >>
    >> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    >> news:ijpv45-rk9.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>>A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing proprietary Microsoft
    >> software but then complains how evil Windows is.
    >>

    >
    > OK, so you're on record as not liking alternatives, then?
    >
    > Good.
    >
    > Let me know when Microsoft puts Symbian out of business.
    > Last I heard Symbian has about 70% of the mobile OS market.


    That is correct. Microsoft is good at PR, so it was successful at pretending
    that desktop PCs /WERE/ the computer. Should it not matter that there are
    several billions of smart phones (miniature PCs) out there? Microsoft is
    very,very good at PR (poker face). It manages to convinced people that only an
    O/S (even for phones) with "Shutdown" under some "Start" menu at the
    bottom-left corner of the display is the 'standard'-- the only standard which
    is 'user friendly' (read: like Windows). But guess what? After about 10 years
    in the field and huge spending (losses too, which they hid by combining
    divisions), Microsoft has only 6% market share in this area.

    > I'll give credit to Microsoft for advancing the home
    > game console market with their XBox but their Zune has
    > been less than spectacular, and the Orange Phone was the
    > butt of jokes for awhile. Nevertheless, the preferred
    > direction obviously is ensuring that we have one OS vendor,
    > everywhere, indivisible, with Windows and Office for all.
    >
    > Simplifies things enormously for everyone. (FSVO "everyone".)
    >
    > Better tell Apple Computer as well. They really need to
    > modernize their MacOSX; it's so crappy it doesn't even
    > run on standard PC hardware (it can run on EFI, though,
    > and presumably that's where the PC is going) and has such
    > capabilities as emulating Windows and Unix, plus 99 cents
    > per song.
    >
    > And of course there's other pieces of equipment, such
    > as the Amiga, which are fondly remembered and may be
    > resurrected in some form.
    >
    > Can't have that; that just doesn't make sense from a
    > business standpoint.
    >
    > Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?


    Anywhere which is warmer. Dcottt Douglas lives in Canada and I think that the
    cold weather prevents blood from reaching all of his brain cells.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "I feed my 3 penguins with electricity and love"
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    04:05:01 up 24 days, 16:53, 4 users, load average: 0.79, 1.18, 1.30
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  8. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count theways...

    [snips]

    On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:28:18 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as
    >
    > for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    > { ... }
    > printf("%d\n", i);


    Err... the *2005* version allowed this code? Shoulda burned the damn
    thing, then; there's no excuse for that sort of slop. At the point of
    the printf, i simply does not exist (unless it's in a visible scope from
    elsewhere).

    Their old - VC6 era - compilers allowed this sort of nonsense, but at
    least those ones had the vague excuse of being (initially) pre-standard.


  9. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    On 2008-01-04, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    > [snips]
    >
    > On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:28:18 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as
    >>
    >> for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    >> { ... }
    >> printf("%d\n", i);

    >
    > Err... the *2005* version allowed this code? Shoulda burned the damn
    > thing, then; there's no excuse for that sort of slop. At the point of
    > the printf, i simply does not exist (unless it's in a visible scope from
    > elsewhere).
    >
    > Their old - VC6 era - compilers allowed this sort of nonsense, but at
    > least those ones had the vague excuse of being (initially) pre-standard.
    >


    That doesn't work for me in 2005. I just get:

    error C2056: "i" : undeclared identifer

    If you right click on the solution, and select properties, then select
    C/C++, Language there is an option: Force Conformance In For Loop Scope

    If this value is set to no, then the above will compile. But, the
    default is Yes at least for new projects... I haven't converted any
    older projects, so it is possible that the conversion wizard will set
    this to no for compatability....

    --
    Tom Shelton

  10. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut

    wrote
    on Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:47:58 -0500
    :
    > * The Ghost In The Machine fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately it wants to
    >> convert old format project files and has no backwards
    >> compatibility mode for project files.

    >
    > Of course. They want to nudge everyone on to the new version.


    Not such a bad thing, though one hopes the nudge doesn't
    push anyone off the cliff.

    >
    >> [2] VS2008 has the bad habit of specifying paths with
    >> respect to its destination, as opposed to VS2005 which
    >> specified them with respect to the source. This meant that
    >> I had to manually retype in paths often.

    >
    > Wow, so MS finally borked that nice feature!


    They certainly screwed it up somehow. Granted, this is
    someone else's project so they might have borked it when
    people moved around directories to begin with.

    >
    >> [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as
    >>
    >> for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    >> { ... }
    >> printf("%d\n", i);
    >>
    >> and
    >>
    >> std::vector::iterator it = NULL;
    >>
    >> to compile.

    >
    > Wow, that's a regression from our 2002 version, I think.
    >


    I'll admit to wondering when g++ allowed these constructs;
    I'm old enough to remember this = (SomeClass*) malloc()
    in the constructor in a now very old cfront. :-)

    I'll have to investigate this.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Windows. Multi-platform(1), multi-tasking(1), multi-user(1).
    (1) if one defines "multi" as "exactly one".

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  11. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kelsey Bjarnason

    wrote
    on Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:55:02 GMT
    <5q1155-2i5.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>:
    > [snips]
    >
    > On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:28:18 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> [3] The compiler for 2005 allowed constructs such as
    >>
    >> for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    >> { ... }
    >> printf("%d\n", i);

    >
    > Err... the *2005* version allowed this code? Shoulda burned the damn
    > thing, then; there's no excuse for that sort of slop. At the point of
    > the printf, i simply does not exist (unless it's in a visible scope from
    > elsewhere).
    >
    > Their old - VC6 era - compilers allowed this sort of nonsense, but at
    > least those ones had the vague excuse of being (initially) pre-standard.
    >


    It's possible that I'm misconstruing, and that this project I'm trying
    to retrofit is actually a V6 variant.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #11823822:
    signal(SIGKILL, catchkill);

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  12. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday:
    >> Dusty Hendrix wrote:
    >>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote...
    >>>
    >>>> A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>>
    >>> Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing
    >>> proprietary Microsoft software but then complains how evil
    >>> Windows is.

    >>
    >> OK, so you're on record as not liking alternatives, then?
    >>
    >> Good.
    >>
    >> Let me know when Microsoft puts Symbian out of business.
    >> Last I heard Symbian has about 70% of the mobile OS market.

    >
    > That is correct. Microsoft is good at PR, so it was successful
    > at pretending that desktop PCs /WERE/ the computer. Should it
    > not matter that there are several billions of smart phones
    > (miniature PCs) out there? Microsoft is very,very good at PR
    > (poker face). It manages to convinced people that only an O/S
    > (even for phones) with "Shutdown" under some "Start" menu at
    > the bottom-left corner of the display is the 'standard'-- the
    > only standard which is 'user friendly' (read: like Windows).
    > But guess what? After about 10 years in the field and huge
    > spending (losses too, which they hid by combining divisions),
    > Microsoft has only 6% market share in this area.


    Future is in virtualisation and thin clients. It is easier to
    manage a handful of "terminal servers" serving thin clients
    instead of a slew of thick clients.

    In April last year, Microsoft did an "about face" and now is
    working to support thin clients, albeit at roughly twice the cost
    of their thick client licenses. They are not yet supporting per
    user license. (One has 1,000 machines but only 500 users must
    pay 1,000 licenses, not 500.)

    There are merits in this as the servers maintain the software, an
    upgrade to a server upgrades all thin clients. Also having
    software managed at server level has better control over viruses,
    trojans, root kits, etc. Server can't be back doored or
    "bypassed" through an infected thick client, since thin client is
    essentially a terminal. Backups are simplified since they are
    done as server level. It is inherently easier to backup user files.

    This is where Linux shines. With Linux running an alternative to
    Windows API's to run software applications negates the need for
    the Windows operating system. Vista is the best thing that ever
    happened to Linux.

    >> Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?


    I still remember Corel Linux showing, "Where do you want to go
    tomorrow?" when mouse was hovered over the "Start" button. :-)

    > Anywhere which is warmer. Scottt Douglas lives in Canada and I
    > think that the cold weather prevents blood from reaching all
    > of his brain cells.


    As Microsoft and some major software houses with heavy Microsoft
    ties will not want "food taken off their plate" (AKA maintain the
    monopoly), the FUD campaigns against Linux and other alternative
    operating systems will continue.

    Best form of freedom is for people to simply try Linux and other
    FOSS software out, judge for themselves.

    --
    HPT

  13. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, High Plains Thumper

    wrote
    on Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:40:45 -0700
    :
    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday:
    >>> Dusty Hendrix wrote:
    >>>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote...
    >>>>
    >>>>> A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing
    >>>> proprietary Microsoft software but then complains how evil
    >>>> Windows is.
    >>>
    >>> OK, so you're on record as not liking alternatives, then?
    >>>
    >>> Good.
    >>>
    >>> Let me know when Microsoft puts Symbian out of business.
    >>> Last I heard Symbian has about 70% of the mobile OS market.

    >>
    >> That is correct. Microsoft is good at PR, so it was successful
    >> at pretending that desktop PCs /WERE/ the computer. Should it
    >> not matter that there are several billions of smart phones
    >> (miniature PCs) out there? Microsoft is very,very good at PR
    >> (poker face). It manages to convinced people that only an O/S
    >> (even for phones) with "Shutdown" under some "Start" menu at
    >> the bottom-left corner of the display is the 'standard'-- the
    >> only standard which is 'user friendly' (read: like Windows).
    >> But guess what? After about 10 years in the field and huge
    >> spending (losses too, which they hid by combining divisions),
    >> Microsoft has only 6% market share in this area.

    >
    > Future is in virtualisation and thin clients. It is easier to
    > manage a handful of "terminal servers" serving thin clients
    > instead of a slew of thick clients.


    How "thin" is thin here? I see a multilayer problem, and
    the Web brower is getting extremely fat -- to the point
    of becoming a development environment itself (Javascript
    can do Erastothene's Sieve without much difficulty,
    for example). Contrast this to dumb glass tube terminals
    which might have have to make a decision on where to put
    the cursor based on 8-bit codes, but that's about it.

    X terminals are somewhere in the middle and are very
    rare nowadays. Nowadays it's cheaper to get a new or used
    Laptop and slap Linux on it running an X server and using
    SSH tunnelling.

    >
    > In April last year, Microsoft did an "about face" and now is
    > working to support thin clients, albeit at roughly twice the cost
    > of their thick client licenses. They are not yet supporting per
    > user license. (One has 1,000 machines but only 500 users must
    > pay 1,000 licenses, not 500.)


    Gosh, how nice of them to overcharge us! :-P Of course
    part of the problem with a "thin" client is authenticating
    that client; think of a laptop on a corporate network,
    for example. Best I can do there is put something in .ssh
    and that would allow login to a server; the server can
    also use HTTP for session authentication if the laptop
    has a web browser (even Dillo can handle cookies).

    My previous employer had exactly this problem, as they used
    X Windows to draw their stuff -- and X has an inherent
    remoting capability, which can be exacerbated by various
    proxies to allow more than 1 user to share a window or
    desktop (the most obvious one nowadays is VNC).

    >
    > There are merits in this as the servers maintain the software, an
    > upgrade to a server upgrades all thin clients.


    Actually, it doesn't ... but never mind; I'm being
    pedantic. Suffice it to say that the thin clients do
    not need to upgrade nearly as often as the servers since
    the thin client protocol is relatively simple, and that
    lessens IT work. Of course upgrading the server allows
    the thin clients to access the new version -- transparently.

    No doubt that's what you meant, and it can be a *big* advantage.

    > Also having
    > software managed at server level has better control over viruses,
    > trojans, root kits, etc. Server can't be back doored or
    > "bypassed" through an infected thick client, since thin client is
    > essentially a terminal. Backups are simplified since they are
    > done as server level. It is inherently easier to backup user files.
    >
    > This is where Linux shines. With Linux running an alternative to
    > Windows API's to run software applications negates the need for
    > the Windows operating system. Vista is the best thing that ever
    > happened to Linux.


    And the worst thing to happen to Microsoft. :-)

    >
    >>> Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?

    >
    > I still remember Corel Linux showing, "Where do you want to go
    > tomorrow?" when mouse was hovered over the "Start" button. :-)


    Heh. Can't say I remember that, but that's because I've not
    used that distro.

    >
    >> Anywhere which is warmer. Scottt Douglas lives in Canada and I
    >> think that the cold weather prevents blood from reaching all
    >> of his brain cells.

    >
    > As Microsoft and some major software houses with heavy Microsoft
    > ties will not want "food taken off their plate" (AKA maintain the
    > monopoly), the FUD campaigns against Linux and other alternative
    > operating systems will continue.
    >
    > Best form of freedom is for people to simply try Linux and other
    > FOSS software out, judge for themselves.
    >


    If they're aware of it. At least the "buzz" is still
    around Linux, and if Microsoft denigrates Linux in their
    ads, it is also *mentioning* Linux -- a double-edged sword.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Error 16: Not enough space on file system to delete file(s)

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  14. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> That is correct. Microsoft is good at PR, so it was
    >>> successful at pretending that desktop PCs /WERE/ the
    >>> computer. Should it not matter that there are several
    >>> billions of smart phones (miniature PCs) out there?
    >>> Microsoft is very,very good at PR (poker face). It manages
    >>> to convinced people that only an O/S (even for phones)
    >>> with "Shutdown" under some "Start" menu at the bottom-left
    >>> corner of the display is the 'standard'-- the only
    >>> standard which is 'user friendly' (read: like Windows).
    >>> But guess what? After about 10 years in the field and huge
    >>> spending (losses too, which they hid by combining
    >>> divisions), Microsoft has only 6% market share in this
    >>> area.

    >>
    >> Future is in virtualisation and thin clients. It is easier
    >> to manage a handful of "terminal servers" serving thin
    >> clients instead of a slew of thick clients.

    >
    > How "thin" is thin here? I see a multilayer problem, and the
    > Web brower is getting extremely fat -- to the point of
    > becoming a development environment itself (Javascript can do
    > Erastothene's Sieve without much difficulty, for example).
    > Contrast this to dumb glass tube terminals which might have
    > have to make a decision on where to put the cursor based on
    > 8-bit codes, but that's about it.


    If we are talking about weight, then I guess I am a fat client. :-)

    You are talking about dumb terminals like DEC VT100, VT220,
    Concurrent PE6312, Tektronix 4312, etc., which we back some 20
    years ago called "smart terminals".

    Now we are getting into flavours of virtualisation. That is
    where diligent IT planning and purchase comes into play.

    > X terminals are somewhere in the middle and are very rare
    > nowadays. Nowadays it's cheaper to get a new or used Laptop
    > and slap Linux on it running an X server and using SSH
    > tunnelling.


    True. Haven't tested as of late but a while back had X on a 100
    MHz 486, ran fine.

    >> In April last year, Microsoft did an "about face" and now is
    >> working to support thin clients, albeit at roughly twice
    >> the cost of their thick client licenses. They are not yet
    >> supporting per user license. (One has 1,000 machines but
    >> only 500 users must pay 1,000 licenses, not 500.)

    >
    > Gosh, how nice of them to overcharge us! :-P Of course part
    > of the problem with a "thin" client is authenticating that
    > client; think of a laptop on a corporate network, for example.
    > Best I can do there is put something in .ssh and that would
    > allow login to a server; the server can also use HTTP for
    > session authentication if the laptop has a web browser (even
    > Dillo can handle cookies).


    I am sure there is a way to authenticate. I was referring to
    hardwired clients, not laptops. One would most likely not use
    thin in residences and smallest businesses.

    > My previous employer had exactly this problem, as they used X
    > Windows to draw their stuff -- and X has an inherent remoting
    > capability, which can be exacerbated by various proxies to
    > allow more than 1 user to share a window or desktop (the most
    > obvious one nowadays is VNC).
    >
    >> There are merits in this as the servers maintain the
    >> software, an upgrade to a server upgrades all thin clients.

    >
    > Actually, it doesn't ... but never mind; I'm being pedantic.
    > Suffice it to say that the thin clients do not need to upgrade
    > nearly as often as the servers since the thin client protocol
    > is relatively simple, and that lessens IT work. Of course
    > upgrading the server allows the thin clients to access the new
    > version -- transparently.
    >
    > No doubt that's what you meant, and it can be a *big*
    > advantage.
    >
    >> Also having software managed at server level has better
    >> control over viruses, trojans, root kits, etc. Server can't
    >> be back doored or "bypassed" through an infected thick
    >> client, since thin client is essentially a terminal.
    >> Backups are simplified since they are done as server level.
    >> It is inherently easier to backup user files.
    >>
    >> This is where Linux shines. With Linux running an
    >> alternative to Windows API's to run software applications
    >> negates the need for the Windows operating system. Vista is
    >> the best thing that ever happened to Linux.

    >
    > And the worst thing to happen to Microsoft. :-)
    >
    >>>> Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?

    >>
    >> I still remember Corel Linux showing, "Where do you want to
    >> go tomorrow?" when mouse was hovered over the "Start"
    >> button. :-)

    >
    > Heh. Can't say I remember that, but that's because I've not
    > used that distro.


    It was very nicely done, using KDE 1.0. Those who say that KDE
    was amateurish say without experience, Corel had a very nice
    implementation of it. They even had SMB integration where one
    could see similar to Windows Network Neighborhood other Windows
    clients.

    >>> Anywhere which is warmer. Scottt Douglas lives in Canada
    >>> and I think that the cold weather prevents blood from
    >>> reaching all of his brain cells.

    >>
    >> As Microsoft and some major software houses with heavy
    >> Microsoft ties will not want "food taken off their plate"
    >> (AKA maintain the monopoly), the FUD campaigns against Linux
    >> and other alternative operating systems will continue.
    >>
    >> Best form of freedom is for people to simply try Linux and
    >> other FOSS software out, judge for themselves.

    >
    > If they're aware of it. At least the "buzz" is still around
    > Linux, and if Microsoft denigrates Linux in their ads, it is
    > also *mentioning* Linux -- a double-edged sword.


    You are right about that. The fat lady is singing and they can't
    seem to shut her up. :-)

    --
    HPT

  15. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    High Plains Thumper writes:

    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday:
    >>> Dusty Hendrix wrote:
    >>>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote...
    >>>>
    >>>>> A rant, indeed a rant.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yet another COLA bozo who makes his living writing
    >>>> proprietary Microsoft software but then complains how evil
    >>>> Windows is.
    >>>
    >>> OK, so you're on record as not liking alternatives, then?
    >>>
    >>> Good.
    >>>
    >>> Let me know when Microsoft puts Symbian out of business. Last I
    >>> heard Symbian has about 70% of the mobile OS market.

    >>
    >> That is correct. Microsoft is good at PR, so it was successful
    >> at pretending that desktop PCs /WERE/ the computer. Should it
    >> not matter that there are several billions of smart phones
    >> (miniature PCs) out there? Microsoft is very,very good at PR
    >> (poker face). It manages to convinced people that only an O/S
    >> (even for phones) with "Shutdown" under some "Start" menu at
    >> the bottom-left corner of the display is the 'standard'-- the
    >> only standard which is 'user friendly' (read: like Windows).
    >> But guess what? After about 10 years in the field and huge
    >> spending (losses too, which they hid by combining divisions),
    >> Microsoft has only 6% market share in this area.

    >
    > Future is in virtualisation and thin clients. It is easier to manage
    > a handful of "terminal servers" serving thin clients instead of a slew
    > of thick clients.


    For who? Not for joe soap at home. They dont want their private ****
    being mangled by dorks like you. They want to pay videos, games, audio
    etc. They want a thick client. YOu seem to think this "networking" for
    centralised resources is some sort of new thing. Err, it's not.

    >
    > In April last year, Microsoft did an "about face" and now is working
    > to support thin clients, albeit at roughly twice the cost of their
    > thick client licenses. They are not yet supporting per user license.
    > (One has 1,000 machines but only 500 users must pay 1,000 licenses,
    > not 500.)
    >
    > There are merits in this as the servers maintain the software, an
    > upgrade to a server upgrades all thin clients. Also having software
    > managed at server level has better control over viruses, trojans, root
    > kits, etc. Server can't be back doored or "bypassed" through an
    > infected thick client, since thin client is essentially a terminal.
    > Backups are simplified since they are done as server level. It is
    > inherently easier to backup user files.


    I have never worked on a SW project where the compiling/build
    environments were stored on the local machine. Sure some check outs
    could be, but generally we worked on the network - for obvious reasons
    (which you feel the need to describe (wrongly) at length).

    Your total lack of knowledge here is shocking. What "thin clients" are
    you talking about? HTML? What? Java? AJAX? What?

    >
    > This is where Linux shines. With Linux running an alternative to
    > Windows API's to run software applications negates the need for the
    > Windows operating system. Vista is the best thing that ever happened
    > to Linux.


    And yet Mono is being actively developed. And who are they copying? Yup
    ..... And guess what? MS make servers too. In fact MS servers are
    currently displacing Linux servers. But you knew that.

    >
    >>> Microsoft. Where did you want to go today?

    >
    > I still remember Corel Linux showing, "Where do you want to go
    > tomorrow?" when mouse was hovered over the "Start" button. :-)


    Linonut'esque in it's unfunniness.

    >
    >> Anywhere which is warmer. Scottt Douglas lives in Canada and I
    >> think that the cold weather prevents blood from reaching all
    >> of his brain cells.

    >
    > As Microsoft and some major software houses with heavy Microsoft ties
    > will not want "food taken off their plate" (AKA maintain the
    > monopoly), the FUD campaigns against Linux and other alternative
    > operating systems will continue.


    What FUD campaign?

    >
    > Best form of freedom is for people to simply try Linux and other FOSS
    > software out, judge for themselves.


    Well, its out there. Its free. So what's stopping them. Oh yes. You and
    your kind scare them off.

  16. Re: [Opinion] How annoyed am I at Microsoft? Let me count the ways...

    High Plains Thumper writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> High Plains Thumper writes:
    >>
    >>> Future is in virtualisation and thin clients. It is easier
    >>> to manage a handful of "terminal servers" serving thin
    >>> clients instead of a slew of thick clients.

    >>
    >> For who? Not for joe soap at home. They dont want their
    >> private **** being mangled by dorks like you. They want to pay
    >> videos, games, audio etc. They want a thick client. YOu seem
    >> to think this "networking" for centralised resources is some
    >> sort of new thing. Err, it's not.

    >
    > Your incompetence is showing, Hadron. Where is your common
    > sense? *Most* home users are *unmanaged* (by a local server that
    > is). I was referring to thin client usage in a corporate work
    > environment.


    Then say that.

    >
    > Also you put words in my mouth that I did not say. Thin clients
    > are not a new concept, but until now have been overall not widely
    > used in office environments.


    And are still not.

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