People do NOT want Vista - Linux

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Thread: People do NOT want Vista

  1. People do NOT want Vista


    These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of people,
    and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on numerous
    occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with Linux
    computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work just
    fine, and that's all there is to say about it.

    But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of those
    conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's total crap.
    Some people had bought a new computer with Vista preinstalled, and some had
    even tried to get used to it for several weeks, but in the end, *all* of
    these people dumped it, and either reverted to XP (often at a
    non-significant cost) or sold off their Vista box and got a Mac (at an even
    higher cost).
    Even now that Vista is almost a year on the market, I still have to meet
    even *one* single person who is positive about it. People hate it. Not only
    do they not want it, but this time round, they percieve very clearly how
    Microsoft is trying to shove it down their throat nonetheless, with no
    option to upgrade their Vista installation to XP (unless you pay again).

    Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    well as Linux.

    And oh, I almost forgot: I've got no less than eleven new Linux installs in
    my calendar for next week. An all-time high. Newbies, single mothers,
    technically unsavvy people, but also experienced Windows users -- all
    people who need a computer, but decided that they'd rather spend a few
    dozen bucks on trying this "new" Linux thing on their old computer (or even
    on a brand new bare-bone computer) than spending hundreds of dollars on
    Vista crap.
    And I can guarantee one thing: at least 90% of these new users will never
    look at Microsoft products, ever again.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl/

  2. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Richard Rasker writes:

    > These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of people,
    > and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on numerous
    > occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with Linux
    > computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work just
    > fine, and that's all there is to say about it.
    >
    > But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of those
    > conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's total
    > crap.


    Well, well, There's a surprise. The man who had to post an apology after
    running around super stores trying to burn a cd on other people's HW.

    > Some people had bought a new computer with Vista preinstalled, and some had
    > even tried to get used to it for several weeks, but in the end, *all* of
    > these people dumped it, and either reverted to XP (often at a
    > non-significant cost) or sold off their Vista box and got a Mac (at an even
    > higher cost).


    How many moved to Linux and then didn't dump it in favor of going back
    to XP?

    People don't do change well. And there is a learning curve coming into
    Linux from Windows you must admit. Hell, there are a spate of posts
    recently with people complaining that getting Linux too easy to use is
    not a good thing!

    > Even now that Vista is almost a year on the market, I still have to meet
    > even *one* single person who is positive about it. People hate it. Not
    > only


    Most people I know dont have an opinion on it. They just use it happily
    enough. not power users by any means. But it "works for them".

    > do they not want it, but this time round, they percieve very clearly how
    > Microsoft is trying to shove it down their throat nonetheless, with no
    > option to upgrade their Vista installation to XP (unless you pay again).
    >
    > Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    > and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    > to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    > equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    > well as Linux.


    10 to 20 times the resources? Are you mad?

    >
    > And oh, I almost forgot: I've got no less than eleven new Linux installs in
    > my calendar for next week. An all-time high. Newbies, single mothers,
    > technically unsavvy people,


    A wonderful advert for an OS there .....


    > but also experienced Windows users -- all
    > people who need a computer, but decided that they'd rather spend a few
    > dozen bucks on trying this "new" Linux thing on their old computer (or even
    > on a brand new bare-bone computer) than spending hundreds of dollars on
    > Vista crap.
    > And I can guarantee one thing: at least 90% of these new users will never
    > look at Microsoft products, ever again.


    Unless they want to run quicken or play new games that is. or run
    itunes or .....

  3. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Richard Rasker wrote:
    > These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of
    > people, and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on
    > numerous occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work
    > with Linux computers every day, and they're actually totally boring.
    > They work just fine, and that's all there is to say about it.


    Sure they do - if you don't have to power them up and use them. When you do
    that, well, then you run into the usual half-ass Linux problems due to
    amateurs being let loose: apps that don't launch, apps that crash and freeze
    and hang, screens that go black, no working 3d, a desktop where you can
    always see the faint outline of the 3d beryl cube, package updaters that
    throw errors, KNode that crashes over and over and over, etc.



    > But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of
    > those conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's
    > total crap.


    ==============================================
    64-bit Vista superlatives:

    Really the Ultimate!
    A Step Up
    There is NO way I'm going back to XP
    Fantastic
    Microsoft Windows at it's Best
    Excellent for those who can afford it
    Not a single problem yet
    Don't listen to the haters
    Lovin` it
    Great OS
    Good Deal!
    Vista Rocks
    Great O/S
    * Absolutely Stunning *
    WOW!
    Happy, happy ... Joy, joy!
    I LOVE IT
    definetly works for me!
    No Problems
    I love it!
    IT IS XP on STEROIDS
    OS is fine.
    It's really nice!
    GET THIS NOW
    Looks and cooks
    Got to love Vista!
    Vistacular!
    Excellent Operating System
    My fav OS yet!
    MICROSOFT ROCKS!
    Pleasantly Suprised!
    Fantastic

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116215 (sort
    by highest rating)

    ==============================================
    "I have been using Vista for 4 months now and it has been a fantastic
    experience."
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ting=-1&Page=3

    Rasker, you be sure to logon and let us know the next time someone describes
    Linux as a "fantastic experience".

    ==============================================
    Hundreds of Excellent and Good Vista reviews (~50% more are Excellent than
    just Good)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116213
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116202
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116215
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116143
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116141

    Why can't you find such a collection of positive Linux reviews in one place?
    Well, that's because basically nobody uses the junk.
    ==============================================

    > Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty
    > promises and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat,


    Bloated, yes. But you also get a fast, stable, relatively secure OS with a
    beautiful Aero Glass theme and some decent apps included. And it runs well
    on the kind of crappy older hardware you Linux cheapos salivate over.



    > guzzling up ten to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux
    > distribution takes for equal performance.


    I recall you explicitly disproving this to yourself a long time ago. So why
    are you still spewing it?



    > Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as well as Linux.


    From day one, Windows Vista has made Linux look like the OSS crap it is (and
    judging by where it's at 16 years and millions of contributors later, always
    will be).



    > And oh, I almost forgot: I've got no less than eleven new Linux
    > installs in my calendar for next week. An all-time high.


    Followed shortly by 10.9 uninstalls.


    > Newbies,
    > single mothers, technically unsavvy people, but also experienced
    > Windows users -- all people who need a computer, but decided that
    > they'd rather spend a few dozen bucks on trying this "new" Linux
    > thing on their old computer (or even on a brand new bare-bone
    > computer) than spending hundreds of dollars on Vista crap.


    huh? A Vista Home Premium machine from Dell costs $50 more than an Ubuntu
    system from Dell.


    > And I can guarantee one thing: at least 90% of these new users will
    > never look at Microsoft products, ever again.


    You can't guarantee a thing, except that you'll definitely obsess over
    Windows - and the attendant loss of income from 'rejecting' it - forever.





  4. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:03:13 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > Richard Rasker wrote:
    >> These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of
    >> people, and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on
    >> numerous occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with
    >> Linux computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They
    >> work just fine, and that's all there is to say about it.

    >
    > Sure they do - if you don't have to power them up and use them. When you
    > do that, well, then you run into the usual half-ass Linux problems due to
    > amateurs being let loose: apps that don't launch, apps that crash and
    > freeze and hang, screens that go black, no working 3d, a desktop where you
    > can always see the faint outline of the 3d beryl cube, package updaters
    > that throw errors, KNode that crashes over and over and over, etc.
    >


    Remind me now. Did you forget to remember or remember to forget whether
    you tried any of this before making these claims? Or did you remomber
    to remember that you never tried it? Or perhaps you forgot to forget that
    you never tried it.

    There is one thing you said that is true. Screens do go black. It's a
    power saving feature. Hit any key and it comes back to life. I'm surprised
    Windows does not have this feature.

    Bug





  5. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    DFS wrote:

    > Why can't you find such a collection of positive Linux reviews in one place?
    > Well, that's because basically nobody uses the junk.


    Didn't YOU claim to be a Linux user, D00FuS?
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie!"...till you find a rock.

    Owner and proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

  6. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Hadron wrote:

    > Richard Rasker writes:
    >
    >> These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of
    >> people, and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on
    >> numerous occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with
    >> Linux computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work
    >> just fine, and that's all there is to say about it.
    >>
    >> But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of those
    >> conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's total
    >> crap.

    >
    > Well, well, There's a surprise. The man who had to post an apology after
    > running around super stores trying to burn a cd on other people's HW.


    The only thing I had to apologize about was that the widely unsupported
    burning format Vista used was actually the well-defined UDF standard,
    renamed by Microsoft to Live-something. And it's still widely unsupported.
    For all the rest, the detailed report on my experiences with Vista shows
    clearly that it is a buggy, unreliable, resource-hogging piece of crap,
    with things going wrong at the drop of a hat.

    >> Some people had bought a new computer with Vista preinstalled, and some
    >> had even tried to get used to it for several weeks, but in the end, *all*
    >> of these people dumped it, and either reverted to XP (often at a
    >> non-significant cost) or sold off their Vista box and got a Mac (at an
    >> even higher cost).

    >
    > How many moved to Linux and then didn't dump it in favor of going back
    > to XP?


    Some 100 out of 110 or so, estimated. I installed well over a 100 Linux
    boxes, and I know that 80 of those are still running Linux, because they
    opted in on one of my network services (backup and connectivity check,
    mostly), and/or occasionally call me with questions on how to do some thing
    or other. So far, I only know of three people who indeed reverted to XP;
    I'm not sure about the remaining two dozen.

    > People don't do change well.


    I know. An estimated five percent of my Linux users migrate back to Windows
    one day or other. And come running back to me now that they're confronted
    with the dismal prospect of migrating to Vista.

    > And there is a learning curve coming into Linux from Windows you must
    > admit. Hell, there are a spate of posts recently with people complaining
    > that getting Linux too easy to use is not a good thing!


    Um, which spate of posts? Can you point me to a few examples? I can't seem
    to find any ...

    >> Even now that Vista is almost a year on the market, I still have to meet
    >> even *one* single person who is positive about it. People hate it. Not
    >> only

    >
    > Most people I know dont have an opinion on it. They just use it happily
    > enough. not power users by any means. But it "works for them".


    These are the people who have no real demands, who just want to browse the
    Web, perhaps look at a few photographs(*), and are even afraid to change
    the default desktop background. But as soon as people really want to get
    things done, Vista isn't any help -- instead, it gets in their way. It is
    crap.

    *: And these are exactly the people who don't need a 3.8GHz CPU + 4GB RAM
    Vista computer, but instead would get along just perfectly with an elderly
    Linux box. And I know, because the majority of my users fit this profile,
    and *does* get along perfectly well on the type of hardware mentioned.

    >> do they not want it, but this time round, they percieve very clearly how
    >> Microsoft is trying to shove it down their throat nonetheless, with no
    >> option to upgrade their Vista installation to XP (unless you pay again).
    >>
    >> Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    >> and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    >> to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes
    >> for equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform
    >> as well as Linux.

    >
    > 10 to 20 times the resources? Are you mad?


    Nope. Four to eight times the amount of RAM, double to triple the CPU speed
    and a way heavier graphics card *is* between ten to twenty times the system
    resources. When will you winidiots understand proper maths?
    Just tonight, I replaced a broken sound card in a PIII-500MHz system with
    only 256MB of RAM and a 32MB VRAM video card, running Mandriva 2006 -- and
    I was actually amazed how swift and responsive this rather limited system
    was. And to think that KDE 4 will be even more agile, with a smaller memory
    footprint ... I've seen Vista perform far worse one a 1GB RAM, 3.4GHz CPU
    system. It's plain crap.

    >> And oh, I almost forgot: I've got no less than eleven new Linux installs
    >> in my calendar for next week. An all-time high. Newbies, single mothers,
    >> technically unsavvy people,

    >
    > A wonderful advert for an OS there .....


    Yup, because, these people have used Windows, and are fed up with it. They
    simply can't cope any more with malware, maintenance and all the other crap
    mr. Bill Gates has made the world believe is somehow "normal" with
    computers. In the words of one of these people who has seen Linux in
    action:
    "No more anti-virus needed? No more defragmentation and disk cleaning? No
    more slowing down? All the software I need already installed? Automatic
    updates of *everything*? And what about MSN -- it simply works? Erm, what
    about my pokerstars.com? Huh? It runs with this Wine thing? And my kids
    need MS Office for school -- but you say OpenOffice is compatible? And my
    MP3's? And DVD's? What did you just say? 15,000 Internet radio streams to
    choose from? And it'll all play? And it's all free? No illegal ****? Why
    hasn't anyone told me before!??

    >> but also experienced Windows users -- all
    >> people who need a computer, but decided that they'd rather spend a few
    >> dozen bucks on trying this "new" Linux thing on their old computer (or
    >> even on a brand new bare-bone computer) than spending hundreds of dollars
    >> on Vista crap.
    >> And I can guarantee one thing: at least 90% of these new users will never
    >> look at Microsoft products, ever again.

    >
    > Unless they want to run quicken


    Quicken isn't an issue here in the Netherlands; several popular local
    accounting apps are available in Linux versions as well.

    > or play new games that is.


    Not everyone plays store-bought games. Plus Linux game support is getting
    better rapidly. But OK, there are still professionals who use e.g. AutoCAD
    or SolidWorks. And OK, these people will have to stick to Windows for a
    while yet. But there's a bit of a performance problem under Vista. Many
    popular CAD programs run up to 90% slower on Vista than on XP. One of the
    people I mentioned who hated Vista is a cousin of mine, mechanical
    engineer, who made the huge mistake of shelling out $1400 for a new Vista
    laptop machine last summer -- only to find that a) his favourite CAD
    software ran way slower than it did before (and several features stopped
    working altogether) and b) there was no way to upgrade his Vista machine to
    a properly working XP machine because of lack of drivers. So he returned
    his new machine to the store, and got an XP machine instead.

    > or run itunes or .....


    Or what? Your Windows ice floe is getting smaller by the month, while Linux
    is gaining traction all the time. People do not want Vista. Face it.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl/

  7. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    bugbuster wrote:

    > There is one thing you said that is true. Screens do go black. It's
    > a power saving feature. Hit any key and it comes back to life.


    StartCom EL 5: log out of a KDE session and the screen goes black and the
    login screen never reappears. Nothing to do but hardboot.

    It's great software! Really gives your hardware a workout. No wonder so
    many people use it.




    > I'm surprised Windows does not have this feature.


    I'm not surprised you have to lie - you're a Linux "advocate" after all.







  8. Re: People do NOT want Vista


    "Richard Rasker" wrote in message
    news:fl9dan$o0v$1@saturn.z74.net...
    >
    > These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of

    people,
    > and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on numerous
    > occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with Linux
    > computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work just
    > fine, and that's all there is to say about it.
    >
    > But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of those
    > conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's total crap.
    > Some people had bought a new computer with Vista preinstalled, and some

    had
    > even tried to get used to it for several weeks, but in the end, *all* of
    > these people dumped it, and either reverted to XP (often at a
    > non-significant cost) or sold off their Vista box and got a Mac (at an

    even
    > higher cost).
    >




    Although it certainly may be true that "people do NOT want Vista"
    They sure are buying it! Lots of new computers too.

    I have one drive that I did a test install on.

    The machine runs Win2k, XP and Linux very well and very fast.

    With Vista it barely runs at all.

    It's an AMD XP-3200 with 1 gig of ram and a 128meg video card...
    but that is no where near good enough to run Vista.
    (Now days...that H/W is considered obsolete junk I guess)

    That's progress for you.
    Buy new H/W and new software once every year or so!



  9. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:31:26 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > bugbuster wrote:
    >
    >> There is one thing you said that is true. Screens do go black. It's a
    >> power saving feature. Hit any key and it comes back to life.

    >
    > StartCom EL 5: log out of a KDE session and the screen goes black and the
    > login screen never reappears. Nothing to do but hardboot.
    >
    > It's great software! Really gives your hardware a workout. No wonder so
    > many people use it.
    >
    >


    You never answered the question. Or did you forget already?

    >
    >
    >> I'm surprised Windows does not have this feature.

    >
    > I'm not surprised you have to lie - you're a Linux "advocate" after all.


    What lie?

    Bug


  10. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    ____/ Richard Rasker on Monday 31 December 2007 00:32 : \____

    > These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of people,
    > and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on numerous
    > occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with Linux
    > computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work just
    > fine, and that's all there is to say about it.
    >
    > But what sort of struck me, was the fact that each and every one of those
    > conversational partners had a very clear view on Vista: it's total crap.
    > Some people had bought a new computer with Vista preinstalled, and some had
    > even tried to get used to it for several weeks, but in the end, *all* of
    > these people dumped it, and either reverted to XP (often at a
    > non-significant cost) or sold off their Vista box and got a Mac (at an even
    > higher cost).
    > Even now that Vista is almost a year on the market, I still have to meet
    > even *one* single person who is positive about it. People hate it. Not only
    > do they not want it, but this time round, they percieve very clearly how
    > Microsoft is trying to shove it down their throat nonetheless, with no
    > option to upgrade their Vista installation to XP (unless you pay again).
    >
    > Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    > and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    > to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    > equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    > well as Linux.
    >
    > And oh, I almost forgot: I've got no less than eleven new Linux installs in
    > my calendar for next week. An all-time high. Newbies, single mothers,
    > technically unsavvy people, but also experienced Windows users -- all
    > people who need a computer, but decided that they'd rather spend a few
    > dozen bucks on trying this "new" Linux thing on their old computer (or even
    > on a brand new bare-bone computer) than spending hundreds of dollars on
    > Vista crap.
    > And I can guarantee one thing: at least 90% of these new users will never
    > look at Microsoft products, ever again.


    It doesn't matter. Microsoft still lives in a fantasy world where people can
    only choose between vanilla and white.

    Microsoft hasn’t denied consumer choice, it IS consumer choice.

    --John L. Warden, Microsoft’s lead attorney


    Also, about Vista:

    If you can’t make it good, at least make it look good.

    --Bill Gates

    Yes, that sums it all up. It's broken, so use some lipstick.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Viruses to Linux are like cancer to a shark
    http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Cpu(s): 24.6%us, 4.0%sy, 1.0%ni, 66.3%id, 3.7%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.1%si, 0.0%st
    http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information

  11. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Hadron wrote:
    > Richard Rasker writes:
    >
    >> These past few days, with Christmas and all, I met quite a number of people,
    >> and me being a nerd, the topic of "computers" was raised on numerous
    >> occasions -- not even so much by yours truly. Heck, I work with Linux
    >> computers every day, and they're actually totally boring. They work just
    >> fine, and that's all there is to say about it.
    >>


    >>
    >> Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    >> and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    >> to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    >> equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    >> well as Linux.

    >
    > 10 to 20 times the resources? Are you mad?
    >



    Dick talks the same **** as the kook
    Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.

  12. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    > The only thing I had to apologize about was that the widely unsupported
    > burning format Vista used was actually the well-defined UDF standard,
    > renamed by Microsoft to Live-something.


    UDF is supported by the Linux kernel. What's the problem? It is widely
    supported enough for me.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  13. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Tattoo Vampire wrote:

    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Why can't you find such a collection of positive Linux reviews in one
    >> place? Well, that's because basically nobody uses the junk.

    >
    > Didn't YOU claim to be a Linux user, D00FuS?


    Yeah, but he hates every second of it.... 8-)

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  14. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    Gregory Shearman wrote:

    > Richard Rasker wrote:
    >
    >> The only thing I had to apologize about was that the widely unsupported
    >> burning format Vista used was actually the well-defined UDF standard,
    >> renamed by Microsoft to Live-something.

    >
    > UDF is supported by the Linux kernel. What's the problem? It is widely
    > supported enough for me.


    The problems are a) that Microsoft has renamed it to the confusing hype
    lingo term "Live File System" (and calls it "a new type of file system", at
    that, b) further adds to the confusion to have some tucked-away menu
    listing no less than four different versions, c) that Vista by default uses
    a version which is not supported by Linux (2.01), d) that this default
    setting can't be changed permanently, and e) that no warning whatsoever is
    given that especially older CD drives can't handle UDF at all.

    The result is that you never know whether you can actually read a disk
    burned with Vista(*), and neither does Vista allow you to you permanently
    set your own preference for burning disks.

    *: And at least two people I know got (yup) burned by this "feature": they
    thought they'd created a universally readable disk on a Vista machine, only
    to find out many hours later (and, in one case, hundreds of miles away)
    that they couldn't read it on another machine. Embarrassment and anger were
    the result, together with "no more Vista for me".

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl/

  15. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    * Richard Rasker fired off this tart reply:

    > Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >>
    >> UDF is supported by the Linux kernel. What's the problem? It is widely
    >> supported enough for me.

    >
    > The problems are a) that Microsoft has renamed it to the confusing hype
    > lingo term "Live File System" (and calls it "a new type of file system", at
    > that, b) further adds to the confusion to have some tucked-away menu
    > listing no less than four different versions, c) that Vista by default uses
    > a version which is not supported by Linux (2.01), d) that this default
    > setting can't be changed permanently, and e) that no warning whatsoever is
    > given that especially older CD drives can't handle UDF at all.


    You sure about the 2.01 support?

    > The result is that you never know whether you can actually read a disk
    > burned with Vista(*), and neither does Vista allow you to you permanently
    > set your own preference for burning disks.


    /etc/fstab:

    /dev/hda /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0

    > *: And at least two people I know got (yup) burned by this "feature": they
    > thought they'd created a universally readable disk on a Vista machine, only
    > to find out many hours later (and, in one case, hundreds of miles away)
    > that they couldn't read it on another machine. Embarrassment and anger were
    > the result, together with "no more Vista for me".


    Looks like udftools is pretty out-of-date.

    --
    Tux rox!

  16. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    * SW fired off this tart reply:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Richard Rasker writes:
    >>
    >>> Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    >>> and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    >>> to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    >>> equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    >>> well as Linux.

    >>
    >> 10 to 20 times the resources? Are you mad?

    >
    > Dick talks the same **** as the kook
    > Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.


    If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor does
    its volume change?

    --
    Tux rox!

  17. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    On Dec 30, 7:32 pm, Richard Rasker wrote:

    > Even now that Vista is almost a year on the market, I still have to meet
    > even *one* single person who is positive about it. People hate it. Not only
    > do they not want it, but this time round, they percieve very clearly how
    > Microsoft is trying to shove it down their throat nonetheless, with no
    > option to upgrade their Vista installation to XP (unless you pay again).


    Let's see.

    If I have T-40 with Windows XP, it runs very nicely on 512 meg of RAM,
    and marginally better on 1 Gig of RAM if I'm running lots of
    concurrent applications.

    If I run Vista on a 2 Ghz dual-core Intel machine, with 2 Gigabytes,
    the performance is no faster, and in many cases even slower than XP on
    the lighter machine.

    With XP, I would have Symantic firewall, antivirus, and anti-spyware
    applications, I can run XP Professional as a VMWare client, and/or I
    can get lots of applications (which I've already paid for).

    With Vista, Microsoft provides the firewall which is much more
    limited, the antivirus, which is much more unreliable, and the license
    FORBIDS me from blocking spyware that has been licensed and authorized
    by Microsoft. The old drivers don't work, because the drivers aren't
    signed. The old applications don't work, because they aren't signed.
    I have to buy new versions of MS-Office, and some of my favorite
    applications like Lotus Notes, don't like Vista very much.

    As for the Aero-Glass interface, and 64 bit processor speed, I'm not
    sure what you have to buy to get that. You have to have a machine
    with a special video card that won't work with Linux (or XP?). You
    have to have Vista Ultimate - which costs an extra $200. You have to
    have LOTS more RAM, and does it make you more productive? Appearantly
    not.

    Linux on the other hand, has built-in firewall and antivirus, with
    commercial versions available as an option. You have lots of
    applications that are just included, and numerous applications written
    in Java that are now available for Linux. You have better desktop
    management, fewer "hangs" where the machine just freezes for
    extensions, and you can use your old XP license with VMWare Converter
    to create an image that runs on Linux under VMWare player that lets
    you have Windows XP capabilities as well as Linux.

    Linux gives me 64 bit performance, even when I'm running 32 bit
    applications (since all OS functions are 64 bit), and Linux gives me
    very nice 3D capabilities using widely available graphics cards used
    on most Laptops and Desktop machines.

    As for productivity, I have lots of collaboration tools, so I can work
    nicely with others, whether they are in the next Cubicle, or on the
    other side of the world. I have virtual desktops, so I don't have to
    shut down or minimize applications to get things organized the way I
    want them.




  18. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:

    > * SW fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> Richard Rasker writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Of course I could only agree with them. After six years of empty promises
    >>>> and vaporware, all you get is a ludicrous piece of bloat, guzzling up ten
    >>>> to twenty times the system resources a decent Linux distribution takes for
    >>>> equal performance. Erm, let me correct this: Vista will never perform as
    >>>> well as Linux.
    >>>
    >>> 10 to 20 times the resources? Are you mad?

    >>
    >> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
    >> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.

    >
    > If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor does
    > its volume change?
    >



    Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.

  19. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    On Dec 30, 8:03 pm, "DFS" wrote:
    > Richard Rasker wrote:
    > 64-bit Vista superlatives:


    [snip]

    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116215 (sort
    > by highest rating)
    >

    I found this links interesting as well
    Vista Home Premium (what most people get)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116202
    only 40% rated excellent, 31% considered it fair to poor, and the
    comments indicated that they really hated it.

    Many of those who rated it "good" (4 eggs) said "I'd rather have a
    Mac".

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116208
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116139
    And Vista Business was REALLY hated!

    It's beginning to look like nearly ALL of the Vista Business systems
    are actually being shipped with Windows XP.

    But then again, we both know that these ratings represent a very small
    and narrowly defined group of users who are self-selected in
    responding.

  20. Re: People do NOT want Vista

    * SW fired off this tart reply:

    > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * SW fired off this tart reply:
    >>
    >>> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
    >>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.

    >>
    >> If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor does
    >> its volume change?

    >
    > Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook
    > Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.


    You're a real mathematician, you are. Too bad you can't get the Hypatia
    treatment.

    --
    Tux rox!

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