On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:57:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:

> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>
>>>> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>
>>> If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor
>>> does its volume change?
>>
>> Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook
>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>
> You're a real mathematician, you are. Too bad you can't get the Hypatia
> treatment.

Doesn't the CIA call that "Waterboarding"?

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:35:21 -0600, alt wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:57:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>>
>>>>> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
>>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>>
>>>> If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor
>>>> does its volume change?
>>>
>>> Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook
>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>
>> You're a real mathematician, you are. Too bad you can't get the Hypatia
>> treatment.
>
> Doesn't the CIA call that "Waterboarding"?

While the rest of us call it what it is: Torture.

--
Kier

"Kier" wrote in message
newsan.2008.01.01.11.24.25.259073@tiscali.co.uk...
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:35:21 -0600, alt wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:57:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
>>>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor
>>>>> does its volume change?
>>>>
>>>> Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook
>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>
>>> You're a real mathematician, you are. Too bad you can't get the
>>> Hypatia
>>> treatment.
>>

>> Doesn't the CIA call that "Waterboarding"?
>
> While the rest of us call it what it is: Torture.

So let's look at a hypothetical case. If a terrorist plants a bomb that
will kill thousands of innocent people and that terrorist is caught.
According to you we should politely ask the terrorist where this
bomb/biological device is. If the terrorist doesn't tell us after we ask
nicely we should *not* do whatever is necessary to get the information from
him.

Is this your position... that torture should *never* be used?





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:38:47 -0500, Antonio Murphie wrote:

>
> "Kier" wrote in message
> newsan.2008.01.01.11.24.25.259073@tiscali.co.uk...
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:35:21 -0600, alt wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:57:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> * SW fired off this tart reply:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dick talks the same **** as the kook
>>>>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I double the length, width, and height of a cube, by what factor
>>>>>> does its volume change?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linonut and Dick talk the same **** as the kook
>>>>> Great1/Wise1/Sage1/Oldtech/Nerdwizard/AHappyCamper/pberry26.
>>>>
>>>> You're a real mathematician, you are. Too bad you can't get the
>>>> Hypatia
>>>> treatment.
>>>
>
>>> Doesn't the CIA call that "Waterboarding"?
>>
>> While the rest of us call it what it is: Torture.
>
> So let's look at a hypothetical case. If a terrorist plants a bomb that
> will kill thousands of innocent people and that terrorist is caught.
> According to you we should politely ask the terrorist where this

No, that isn't what I said, so don't say that it is. Few situations are
ever that black and white outside of Hollywood.

> bomb/biological device is. If the terrorist doesn't tell us after we ask
> nicely we should *not* do whatever is necessary to get the information
> from him.
>
> Is this your position... that torture should *never* be used?

If at all possible, yes, it should not be used. In such a situation,
maybe. But at least be honest about what it is, and don't pretend that
it's right.

If we condemn its use by the enemy, we cannot turn around and condone it
for ourselves.

In any case, it very rarely produces the answers you want.

--
Kier

Antonio Murphie wrote:
>
> So let's look at a hypothetical case. If a terrorist plants a bomb that
> will kill thousands of innocent people and that terrorist is caught.
> According to you we should politely ask the terrorist where this
> bomb/biological device is. If the terrorist doesn't tell us after we ask
> nicely we should *not* do whatever is necessary to get the information from
> him.
>
> Is this your position... that torture should *never* be used?

Wait, I haven't seen that episode of 24 yet; don't tell me how it
ends!

That problem with your scenario is it never happens in the real world.
'High value suspects' are NOT being tortured over suitcase nukes that
are about to go off any minute. Torture is being used as a general
interrogation tool. We try to excuse it by saying it is only used on
'really bad guys'... but how do you decide who the 'really bad guys'
are? What sort of due process is followed? Do you use confessions
obtained through torture to decide if someone should be tortured? If
some guy turns in his neighbor for a $5000 reward, can we be certain
the suspect is guilt? Given some of the known cases in recent years of
innocent people being imprisoned and tortured for several years before
being released, our system of determining who the 'super evil terrorist
bad guys deserving of torture' is far from perfect. Indeed, all it
really does is betray everything our founding fathers set out to
accomplish with this nation. It hands the terrorists a victory by
lowering us to their level.

Lets imagine for a moment that your daughter is picked up as a
terrorist suspect. Perhaps a college acquaintance with actual
terrorist ties uses her computer and leaves a trail of evidence.
Perhaps it is just hijacked remotely and used as a relay.
Nevertheless, the evidence looks like she sent messages related
to an imminent terrorist attack. Should your daughter be picked
up, waterboarded, sexually humiliated, tortured in any way necessary
to learn the truth about the attack? Remember, lives are on the
line... millions could die.

Once we cross that line into justifying torture, it gets blurry and
easier to cross. The slippery slope to a police state is oiled with
the blood of innocent people.

Thad
--
Yeah, I drank the Open Source cool-aid... Unlike the other brand, it had
all the ingredients on the label.