What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported toLinux but that's a language, not a API) - Linux

This is a discussion on What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported toLinux but that's a language, not a API) - Linux ; On Dec 29, 12:44*am, Rex Ballard wrote: > He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely > supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every > language, application type, and IDE toolkit. > ...

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Thread: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported toLinux but that's a language, not a API)

  1. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 29, 12:44*am, Rex Ballard wrote:
    > He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely
    > supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every
    > language, application type, and IDE toolkit.
    >



    Ah. Aha. Now I see. So in your previous post you gave me a data
    dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    Microsoft specific, but apparently they allow people to target Linux--
    interesting, and of course part of MSFT's game plan to make C# a cross-
    platform language, which I thought had died), and in your previous
    post you mention SQL and gave me some complicated links for
    professional programmers that want to target Linux, but now, NOW, you
    make a casual throwaway comment like the above, which makes it sound
    so easy.

    Now Rex, if API kits for practically every language exist, and for
    MySQL, then kindly give me the best example of such a kit: (1) that
    supports MySQL, (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL
    Server 2005 (via C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007, and (3)
    has an extensive user support group so I can just ask a question on a
    Usenet group and have a dozen answers within a few hours.

    I think (2) and (3) will be a tall order for you to fill.

    RL

  2. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported to Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    raylopez99 wrote:

    > On Dec 29, 12:44*am, Rex Ballard wrote:
    >> He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely
    >> supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every
    >> language, application type, and IDE toolkit.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Ah. Aha. Now I see. So in your previous post you gave me a data
    > dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    > Microsoft specific,


    It still is proprietory vendor lock in if you use any of their
    standards busted features.


    > but apparently they allow people to target Linux--


    Yes apparently in order to avoid anti-trust issues and to
    waste other people's time with proprietory lock-in
    extention schemes.


    > interesting, and of course part of MSFT's game plan to make C# a cross-
    > platform language,


    Which it isn't. Its a mish mash of crap that can only
    compete with other vendor lock in crap.
    It doesn't say produce software as good as gcc compiled code
    or say an array of modules called by Gambas GUI interface.


    > which I thought had died), and in your previous
    > post you mention SQL and gave me some complicated links for
    > professional programmers that want to target Linux, but now, NOW, you
    > make a casual throwaway comment like the above, which makes it sound
    > so easy.


    You should always use stored procedures if you are doing serious
    business logic and not go it alone with SQL coded into web pages
    and other cruddy hidden areas that are difficult for DBAs to maintain.


    > Now Rex, if API kits for practically every language exist, and for
    > MySQL, then kindly give me the best example of such a kit: (1) that
    > supports MySQL,


    Gambas

    > (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL
    > Server 2005 (via C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007,


    Gambas

    > and (3)
    > has an extensive user support group so I can just ask a question on a
    > Usenet group and have a dozen answers within a few hours.


    Gambas forums

    > I think (2) and (3) will be a tall order for you to fill.


    The problem is that you a windummy needs to UN-LEARN WINDOPWS fast
    and stop promoting proprietory crap
    before you can learn Linux or any other open source stuff.


    > RL



  3. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 29, 8:05*am, 7 wrote:
    > raylopez99 wrote:
    > > On Dec 29, 12:44*am, Rex Ballard wrote:
    > >> He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely
    > >> supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every
    > >> language, application type, and IDE toolkit.

    >
    > > Ah. *Aha. *Now I see. *So in your previous post you gave me a data
    > > dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    > > Microsoft specific,

    >
    > It still is proprietory vendor lock in if you use any of their
    > standards busted features.


    RIght. So you admit that Linux APIs can be standards busting. So you
    essentially admit that Linux is a variant of Windows. Thanks. Next.

    >
    > > but apparently they allow people to target Linux--

    >
    > Yes apparently in order to avoid anti-trust issues and to
    > waste other people's time with proprietory lock-in
    > extention schemes.
    >
    > > interesting, and of course part of MSFT's game plan to make C# a cross-
    > > platform language,

    >
    > Which it isn't. Its a mish mash of crap that can only
    > compete with other vendor lock in crap.
    > It doesn't say produce software as good as gcc compiled code
    > or say an array of modules called by Gambas GUI interface.
    >


    Gambas is Visual Basic. It's kludge if you like a strongly typed
    logical language. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambas

    In software development, Gambas is an object-oriented dialect of the
    BASIC programming language, along with an integrated development
    environment to accompany it, which runs on Linux and other Unix-like
    computer operating systems. It is intended to provide a similar
    experience for developing BASIC programs to Visual Basic. Gambas is
    intended to be an alternative for former Visual Basic developers who
    have decided to migrate to Linux.

    'Gambas' is a recursive acronym for Gambas Almost Means Basic. Gambas
    is also the word for prawn in the Spanish language, from which the
    project's logo is derived.

    Developed in Paris by Benoţt Minisini since 1999, Gambas is free
    software, released under the GNU General Public Licence. The current
    version as of July 2007, is 1.0.19.


    > You should always use stored procedures if you are doing serious
    > business logic and not go it alone with SQL coded into web pages
    > and other cruddy hidden areas that are difficult for DBAs to maintain.
    >


    Thanks. I appreciate the tip. I agree, and can see the value of a
    strongly typed language like C#.NET under the Visual Studio, unlike
    Visual Basic, as Visual Basic, an interpreted language like Gamba,
    allows all kinds of bugs to creep in it seems to me. But Gamba =
    Basic, so your side has the same rap.


    > > Now Rex, if API kits for practically every language exist, and for
    > > MySQL, then kindly give me the best example of such a kit: *(1) that
    > > supports MySQL,

    >
    > Gambas
    >
    > > (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL
    > > Server 2005 (via C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007,

    >
    > Gambas
    >
    > > and (3)
    > > has an extensive user support group so I can just ask a question on a
    > > Usenet group and have a dozen answers within a few hours.

    >
    > Gambas forums
    >


    Says you. I don't believe you. But even if true, why switch from
    something that works fairly OK (Visual Basic) to something that works
    "almost" like VB (Gamba)? Just so I can say "I'm different" or
    "kewl"?

    That's for posing losers like...sorry.

    RL

  4. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:01:18 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > On Dec 29, 8:05┬*am, 7 wrote:
    >> raylopez99 wrote:
    >> > On Dec 29, 12:44┬*am, Rex Ballard wrote:
    >> >> He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely
    >> >> supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every
    >> >> language, application type, and IDE toolkit.

    >>
    >> > Ah. ┬*Aha. ┬*Now I see. ┬*So in your previous post you gave me a data
    >> > dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    >> > Microsoft specific,

    >>
    >> It still is proprietory vendor lock in if you use any of their
    >> standards busted features.

    >
    > RIght. So you admit that Linux APIs can be standards busting. So you
    > essentially admit that Linux is a variant of Windows. Thanks. Next.


    Are you really that stupid?

    >
    >
    >> > but apparently they allow people to target Linux--

    >>
    >> Yes apparently in order to avoid anti-trust issues and to waste other
    >> people's time with proprietory lock-in extention schemes.
    >>
    >> > interesting, and of course part of MSFT's game plan to make C# a
    >> > cross- platform language,

    >>
    >> Which it isn't. Its a mish mash of crap that can only compete with
    >> other vendor lock in crap. It doesn't say produce software as good as
    >> gcc compiled code or say an array of modules called by Gambas GUI
    >> interface.
    >>
    >>

    > Gambas is Visual Basic. It's kludge if you like a strongly typed
    > logical language. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambas
    >
    > In software development, Gambas is an object-oriented dialect of the
    > BASIC programming language, along with an integrated development
    > environment to accompany it, which runs on Linux and other Unix-like
    > computer operating systems. It is intended to provide a similar
    > experience for developing BASIC programs to Visual Basic. Gambas is
    > intended to be an alternative for former Visual Basic developers who
    > have decided to migrate to Linux.
    >
    > 'Gambas' is a recursive acronym for Gambas Almost Means Basic. Gambas is
    > also the word for prawn in the Spanish language, from which the
    > project's logo is derived.
    >
    > Developed in Paris by Benoît Minisini since 1999, Gambas is free
    > software, released under the GNU General Public Licence. The current
    > version as of July 2007, is 1.0.19.


    Where's the kludge part?

    >
    >
    >> You should always use stored procedures if you are doing serious
    >> business logic and not go it alone with SQL coded into web pages and
    >> other cruddy hidden areas that are difficult for DBAs to maintain.
    >>
    >>

    > Thanks. I appreciate the tip. I agree, and can see the value of a
    > strongly typed language like C#.NET under the Visual Studio, unlike
    > Visual Basic, as Visual Basic, an interpreted language like Gamba,
    > allows all kinds of bugs to creep in it seems to me. But Gamba = Basic,
    > so your side has the same rap.
    >
    >
    >> > Now Rex, if API kits for practically every language exist, and for
    >> > MySQL, then kindly give me the best example of such a kit: ┬*(1) that
    >> > supports MySQL,

    >>
    >> Gambas
    >>
    >> > (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL Server 2005
    >> > (via C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007,

    >>
    >> Gambas
    >>
    >> > and (3)
    >> > has an extensive user support group so I can just ask a question on a
    >> > Usenet group and have a dozen answers within a few hours.

    >>
    >> Gambas forums
    >>
    >>

    > Says you. I don't believe you. But even if true, why switch from
    > something that works fairly OK (Visual Basic) to something that works
    > "almost" like VB (Gamba)? Just so I can say "I'm different" or "kewl"?


    Does Visual Basic run natively in a Linux distro?

    >
    > That's for posing losers like...sorry.
    >


    You must consider yourself the biggest loser of all.

    --
    Rick

  5. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:53:14 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > why are we
    > here? What is the purpose of this newsgroup?


    The purpose of this group is for a troll to come along and propose to
    install DSL and then bitch that it doesn't have feature x out of the box,
    which at least four others distros do, or feature x is easily installed.
    Then, to later admit to never having had a genuine interest in installing
    Linux.

    This is a variation on that them. BTW, just out of curiosity, how is
    rails "locked-in" to anything? It even runs on Windows, imagine that.
    Why you would want to is another question

    Interesting, ruby on rails is distributed with the same license as
    Linux. You also see Linux as a lock-in? What an, err, interesting
    position.



    -Thufir

  6. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:24:49 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL Server 2005 (via
    > C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007



    What are you talking about? Various IDE's will generate code, to a
    degree. Netbeans does so.



    -Thufir

  7. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:28:46 -0800, Rex Ballard wrote:

    > Even worse, there are foreign key
    > relationships, but they have been removed from the "production"
    > databases for performance reasons.



    Access does this very weird thing with foreign keys, IIRC, where it
    creates an extra field with a new index which defeats the purpose. This
    is the weirdness you refer to?


    -Thufir

  8. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 30, 6:11*am, Thufir wrote:
    > On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:28:46 -0800, Rex Ballard wrote:
    > > *Even worse, there are foreign key
    > > relationships, but they have been removed from the "production"
    > > databases for performance reasons.

    >
    > Access does this very weird thing with foreign keys, IIRC, where it
    > creates an extra field with a new index which defeats the purpose. *This
    > is the weirdness you refer to?
    >
    > -Thufir


    True, I am having problems with FKs in Access right now, and have
    posted about the same, but I'm not an expert on dB languages (which
    all seem stuck from the 1950s to me) like apparently you.

    All the dB langauges are essentially non-OO, 'macro' SQL based
    languages, so my comment about "kludge" applies to all such variants
    (including Ruby on Rails for Linux). But my point: if you're going to
    be "locked in" to a language, like you will be for Linux's version of
    SQL / SQL programming, you might as well be "locked into" a winner OS
    like Windows, with over 90% market share--don't you agree? Or do you
    like being the perpetual underdog (loser)?

    An American football analogy: Windows = New England Patriots (this
    year's best and strongest team), Linux = weak team of amateurs. Who
    is going to win the Super Bowl next month? (Hint: NEP--which is also
    the acronym for Lenin's communist version of capitalism--you Linux
    nuts should know communist ideology).

    RL

  9. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 29, 5:24 am, raylopez99 wrote:
    > On Dec 29, 12:44 am, Rex Ballard wrote:
    >
    > > He probably doesn't realize that MySQL is one of the most widely
    > > supported APIs in the industry, with API kits for practically every
    > > language, application type, and IDE toolkit.

    >
    > Ah. Aha. Now I see. So in your previous post you gave me a data
    > dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    > Microsoft specific, but apparently they allow people to target Linux--
    > interesting, and of course part of MSFT's game plan to make C# a cross-
    > platform language, which I thought had died),


    In an interesting twist of irony, Microsoft attempted to promote C# as
    an alternative to Java because Sun and Microsoft were in the middle of
    a very ugly lawsuit which prevented Microsoft from installing newer
    versions of Java in their preinstalled images. One of their attempts
    to make C# more "acceptable" to the OSS community was to give them a
    very small subset of C# which became part of Mono. According to
    Miguel Icaza, in a face-to-face discussion, he told me that they only
    had about 20% of the functionality required to make Mono competitive
    with Microsoft's toolkit.

    Over the years, Icaza and the Mono team developed a pretty robust
    implementation of C# for Mono which included a number of desktop as
    well as server interfaces and utilities. It's still not that robust,
    compared to the Microsoft Visual Studio, which makes calls directly to
    Microsoft's Windows DLLs and ActiveX controls, but it is more secure.

    The result is that many of those who did adopt C# prefer to only
    implement the Mono subset, which gives them portability to Linux and
    other OSS supported platforms, as well as Windows, without having to
    worry about "painting ourselves into a corner" by implementing Windows-
    Only calls and features that are not supported on teh OSS platforms.

    Meanwhile, Microsoft and Sun made their peace, and Microsoft agreed to
    allow Sun to release their Java 2 implementations, which were truly
    "Write once, run anywhere" and were equally well supported on Linux as
    well as Windows. Today, Sun offers Java 1.5 as their "best" version,
    and those who subscribe to the automatic update service are offered
    the opportunity to download a free copy of OpenOffice at no cost, and
    in less than 10 minutes, they have a new Office Suite.

    As a result, Microsoft now heavily and aggressively promotes Visual
    Basic as their "Strategic" platform - for those willing to implement
    "Microsoft-only" applications, while most of the industrial
    applications prefer to use muti-platform JAVA as their primary
    development platform and language.

    > and in your previous
    > post you mention SQL and gave me some complicated links for
    > professional programmers that want to target Linux, but now, NOW, you
    > make a casual throwaway comment like the above, which makes it sound
    > so easy.


    SQL itself is pretty easy. There are standard interfaces and API sets
    such as ODBC and JDBC. These are usually the primary building blocks
    for portable interfaces for various other languages. This allows you
    to use standard "wrappers" which can be used to send SQL queries and
    commands to a SQL server, and then process the results of these
    requests and commands correctly.

    > Now Rex, if API kits for practically every language exist, and for
    > MySQL, then kindly give me the best example of such a kit: (1) that
    > supports MySQL, (2) that has a drag-and-drop Wizard interface like SQL
    > Server 2005 (via C# Visual Studio 2005) or Access 2003/2007, and (3)
    > has an extensive user support group so I can just ask a question on a
    > Usenet group and have a dozen answers within a few hours.


    You are very confused. An API is an APPLICATION **PROGRAMMER**
    INTERFACE. Not some GUI interface that let's you "drag and drop".
    The GUI interface is actually just an application, and is an IDE
    interface to the API.

    There are several IDEs which support ODBC and/or JDBC, including
    Eclipse, Kdevelop, and Rational Studio. Some of them are free, others
    are more expensive.

    The best equivalent to Access is Open Office Base, or Star Office
    Base. This is a nice GUI interface that will give you a the ability
    to create tables, views, and queries without having to actually know
    much about SQL itself. It won't make you a DBA, but then neither will
    Access.

    The best equivalents to Visual Studio would be commercial software
    such as Borland's Kylix, Rational Application Developer, Eclipse, or
    WebSphere Application Developer (older). There are also good JDBC
    toolkits for Java provided by Sun as well.

    Eclipse and Kdevelop are OSS software, and available for free. They
    can easily be downloaded, and many Linux distributors include one or
    both of them as installable optional software in their distributions.

    Both Eclipse and Kdevelop have large user support communities.
    Most can easily be looked up in Google. Because the MySQL database
    uses standard interfaces and industry standard SQL, it should be very
    easy to use the same code with a number of other databases, including
    DB2, Oracle, or SQL Server, as well.

    Here are a few links I found in a few minutes.
    http://eclipsesql.sourceforge.net/
    http://www-128.ibm.com/developerwork...cldbint-i.html
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipsesql

    http://www.digitalmediaminute.com/ar...or-for-eclipse
    http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com/


    > I think (2) and (3) will be a tall order for you to fill.


    Remember that Microsoft likes to mangle a lot of industry standards
    and then give it their own proprietary terminology and commercial
    trade-names.

    If you like the features of ADO and .NET, you should be looking at UML
    tools. UML, which stands for Uniform Modelling Language. It's an
    industry standard set of tools, including diagrams and models, which
    can be used to document, and even generate, solutions, based on
    industry standard practices.

    Often, UML tools include the tools required to generate classes from
    tables or views, and/or the tools required to generate tables and
    views for persistent objects.

    There are several excellent UML tools, including several for Eclipse.

    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/of...clipseuml.html
    http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/?project=uml2
    http://www.visual-paradigm.com/produ...ityedition.jsp
    http://www.myeclipseide.com/htmlpage...ay-pid-19.html

    There are also several UML toolkits for Linux including
    Umbrello
    http://uml.sourceforge.net/index.php

    http://www.visual-paradigm.com/
    http://www.magicdraw.com/?gclid=CMyf...FQGnPAoddzWDXg
    http://www.excelsoftware.com/quickumllinux.html

    > RL


    Unfortunately, many of these topics such as UML are considered more
    "advanced" than an entry level "database 101" course. If all you need
    is a GUI interface to a SQL database, you should probably stick with
    OpenOffice BASE.

    As for User Community support, OpenOffice and StarOffice are very well
    supported, as is Eclipse. Java is probably the single most widely
    supported language used today. Although Sun "owns" Java, they are
    very open to input from other vendors such as HP and IBM, and are
    always eager to support new OSS tools.

    There are several levels of Java, including J2SE - "Stand-alone"
    edition, which is most widely distributed as a run-time environment,
    which is included with Windows, Explorer, and Linux, as well as most
    other versions of UNIX.

    There is also Java 2 Enterprise Edition (J2EE) which includes tools
    widely used in highly scalable servers and server clusters.

    There are also extensions to Apache such as Tomcat, Jakarta, Struts,
    and JBOSS, which provide various useful interfaces to the J2EE
    extensions.

    There are also toolkits like Spring, which provide support for more
    advanced models designed to support larger clusters and grid
    databases.

    Most of these, you won't begin to explore until your Junior or Senior
    year in College, by which time you will be quite comfortable with
    Java, Basic, and C or C++, as well as PERL and several shell
    programming languages such as BASH and/or KSH.

    If the ONLY goal of your college is to get you to pass the MCSE exam,
    you should find another college as soon as possible. Even if you pass
    the current exam, there is a good chance that your certification will
    be worthless when Windows Server 2008 is released. Most of these MCSE
    exams don't actually test your understanding of the fundamental
    principles or actual programming skills, they test your ability to
    memorize the mouse-clicks required to perform standard
    configurations. There usually isn't even much material on how to
    automate these procedures, only how to do them using "mice and
    Windows".

    These days, there are lots of MCSEs who are scrambling to learn and
    get accredited in Java, Unix, and even Linux, because these are now
    considered "Must Have" skills for even most entry level jobs. And
    these days, it's just assumed that if you know Linux and Unix, that
    you would also know PERL, shell programming, and at least some C
    programming. It would also be assumed that if you know Java, you know
    J2EE and at least some of the Eclipse and Apache extensions for Java.

    There is still a huge "legacy" market, for MCSEs who are top-notch
    gurus in Visual Basic and SQL Server, but these "one trick ponies" are
    a vanishing breed, as outsourcing, Service Oriented Architecture,
    Software as a Service, and the integration of enterprises tends to
    force the migration away from single platform graphical interfaces.


  10. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 29, 10:01 am, raylopez99 wrote:
    > On Dec 29, 8:05 am, 7 wrote:


    > > > Ah. Aha. Now I see. So in your previous post you gave me a data
    > > > dump of all the stuff that relates to C# (which I thought was
    > > > Microsoft specific,

    >
    > > It still is proprietory vendor lock in if you use any of their
    > > standards busted features.

    >
    > RIght. So you admit that Linux APIs can be standards busting. So you
    > essentially admit that Linux is a variant of Windows. Thanks. Next.


    Actually, it's the other way around. Linux APIs are extremely
    portable, even to Windows.

    Microsoft APIs on the other hand, are typically only available as
    subsets on other platforms. For example, when Microsoft promised UNIX
    support for DCOM, all they offered was a minimal subset to allow the
    creation of DCOM servers.

    The competition at the time was CORBA and MQSeries. Sun's Java
    provided the integration with CORBA and RMI which made it possible to
    call CORBA servers written in C++ or COBOL or other low level
    languages, from Java servlets or even Java Applets.

    One of the first toolkits IBM ported to Linux was MQSeries, which
    allowed Linux gateway servers to act as intefaces between Windows
    desktops and mainframes, as well as high end UNIX databases and
    systems such as SAP, Seibel, and JDE.

    If you write an application using PERL/TK, Python, or Ruby, you can
    easily run it on not only Linux, but also all versions of UNIX that
    support GCC compilers. If you want to run the application on Windows,
    there is a cygwin library as well as Windows implementations of these
    languages which will allow you to run the applications quite easily.

    for more information about running Linux applications on Windows go
    to
    http://www.cygwin.com

    Cygwin is published by Red Hat, and provides the simplest way for
    Windows users to quickly and easily access Linux capabilities without
    having to replace Windows with Linux.

    For more information about how to run Linux on Windows as an
    application, try
    http://www.vmware.com/download/player/
    and for some free copies of Linux try

    http://www.vmware.com/appliances/

    Among the most frequently downloaded are Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon, SUSE
    10.3 Workstation, and even the Fedora 8 image.

    These appliances just start like standard Windows applications. Click
    the ESX file and vmware player loads it up for you. Windows fights
    hard before giving up memory, so it will take a few minutes to get the
    appliance "up to speed".



  11. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported to Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:25:25 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > An American football analogy: Windows = New England Patriots (this
    > year's best and strongest team), Linux = weak team of amateurs. Who
    > is going to win the Super Bowl next month? (Hint: NEP--which is also
    > the acronym for Lenin's communist version of capitalism--you Linux
    > nuts should know communist ideology).
    >


    More trollcrap. Get some sense.

    --
    Kier


  12. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:22:54 -0800, Rex Ballard wrote:


    > The result is that many of those who did adopt C# prefer to only
    > implement the Mono subset, which gives them portability to Linux and
    > other OSS supported platforms, as well as Windows, without having to
    > worry about "painting ourselves into a corner" by implementing Windows-
    > Only calls and features that are not supported on teh OSS platforms.



    IronRuby is, or will be, in a similar position? Or is it different?


    -Thufir

  13. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:25:25 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:


    > True, I am having problems with FKs in Access right now, and have posted
    > about the same, but I'm not an expert on dB languages (which all seem
    > stuck from the 1950s to me) like apparently you.


    ROFL, that was very complimentary of you.


    -Thufir

  14. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isportedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:25:25 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > All the dB langauges are essentially non-OO, 'macro' SQL based
    > languages, so my comment about "kludge" applies to all such variants
    > (including Ruby on Rails for Linux). But my point: if you're going to
    > be "locked in" to a language, like you will be for Linux's version of
    > SQL / SQL programming, you might as well be "locked into" a winner OS
    > like Windows, with over 90% market share--don't you agree? Or do you
    > like being the perpetual underdog (loser)?



    If you really want to know about DB stuff, ask actual DB Admin's through
    http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.db.mysql.general .


    Oh, I see where you're coming from. First, from Rex:

    "You are very confused. An API is an APPLICATION **PROGRAMMER**
    INTERFACE. Not some GUI interface that let's you "drag and drop".
    The GUI interface is actually just an application, and is an IDE
    interface to the API."

    With regards to languages, Ruby is GPL'ed and absolutely I'm biased
    towards the GPL; be that Linux, Java or Ruby. I prefer Ruby to Java
    because I find Ruby more intuitive ("easier") and *far* quicker to
    develop in, but that's neither here nor there with regards to your
    questions.

    However, there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JRuby to get ruby running
    on a JVM and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronRuby to do the same but
    for .NET; however, Ruby *and* rails both work from Windows as they are.
    See http://bitnami.org/stack/rubystack, and I see no reason to believe
    that the bitnami effort will ever fail or fall behind. Also, from the
    FAQ:

    3. Installing Ruby
    3.1 What operating systems support Ruby?
    Ruby is developed under Linux, and is written in fairly straightforward
    C. It runs under UNIX, DOS, Windows 95/98/NT/2000, Mac OS X, BeOS, Amiga,
    Acorn Risc OS, and OS/2.

    So, Ruby runs on Windows fine, as does Ruby on Rails -- no market share
    issues there. However, what you're looking for, I believe, is a GUI DB
    admin tool to match Access. For that you probably would like:


    MicroOLAP Database Designer for MySQL
    Single User License With 1 Year Update Subscription $99.96

    http://www.microolap.com/products/da...ysql-designer/


    It seems to be a Windows only product probably because most Linux users
    looking for an interface to MySQL just use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Phpmyadmin . I don't think the demand is there for a Linux GUI tool like
    the above, although, as Rex has written at least twice now, Open Office
    is getting there.

    For all I know there's another company out there which does make a GUI
    front-end like the above for MySQL which you can purchase -- I found one
    example, turned out to be non-Linux, and stopped looking.

    BTW: Foreign keys in MS Access are pointless to my recollection.




    -Thufir

  15. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported to Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    raylopez99 wrote:
    > On Dec 30, 6:11 am, Thufir wrote:
    >> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:28:46 -0800, Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>> Even worse, there are foreign key
    >>> relationships, but they have been removed from the "production"
    >>> databases for performance reasons.

    >>
    >> Access does this very weird thing with foreign keys, IIRC, where it
    >> creates an extra field with a new index which defeats the purpose.
    >> This is the weirdness you refer to?
    >>
    >> -Thufir

    >
    > True, I am having problems with FKs in Access right now, and have
    > posted about the same, but I'm not an expert on dB languages (which
    > all seem stuck from the 1950s to me) like apparently you.


    What kind of problems?

    Here's a query to show you how many foreign keys you have to each referenced
    table.column:

    SELECT [szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn] AS
    ParentTableColumn,
    COUNT([szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn]) AS CountFK
    FROM MSysRelationships
    WHERE ccolumn=1
    GROUP BY [szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn];



    > All the dB langauges are essentially non-OO, 'macro' SQL based
    > languages, so my comment about "kludge" applies to all such variants
    > (including Ruby on Rails for Linux). But my point: if you're going to
    > be "locked in" to a language, like you will be for Linux's version of
    > SQL / SQL programming, you might as well be "locked into" a winner OS
    > like Windows, with over 90% market share--don't you agree? Or do you
    > like being the perpetual underdog (loser)?


    They just plain hate MS is all, and it doesn't matter how great the MS
    technology is.


    > An American football analogy: Windows = New England Patriots (this
    > year's best and strongest team),


    That game last night was damn good football. Down 12 points and they rally
    to win by 3. Sweet!



    > Linux = weak team of amateurs. Who
    > is going to win the Super Bowl next month? (Hint: NEP--which is also
    > the acronym for Lenin's communist version of capitalism--you Linux
    > nuts should know communist ideology).


    Didn't they hear communism and socialism are failures as political and
    social ideologies? Capitalism, private ownership and the pursuit of
    personal wealth are far, far, far greater motivators than "working for the
    community".




  16. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is ported to Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    Thufir wrote:

    > If you really want to know about DB stuff, ask actual DB Admin's
    > through http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.db.mysql.general .


    comp.databases.oracle.misc
    comp.databases.ms-sqlserver
    http://asktom.oracle.com
    http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlqueryprocessing/default.aspx
    http://www.celko.com/



    > BTW: Foreign keys in MS Access are pointless to my recollection.


    As usual when a cola bozo recollects anything about MS, it's wrong.





  17. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 30, 4:23*pm, "DFS" wrote:
    >
    > > True, I am having problems with FKs in Access right now, and have
    > > posted about the same, but I'm not an expert on dB languages (which
    > > all seem stuck from the 1950s to me) like apparently you.

    >
    > What kind of problems?
    >
    > Here's a query to show you how many foreign keys you have to each referenced
    > table.column:
    >
    > SELECT [szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn] AS
    > ParentTableColumn,
    > COUNT([szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn]) AS CountFK
    > FROM MSysRelationships
    > WHERE ccolumn=1
    > GROUP BY [szReferencedObject] & '.' & [szReferencedColumn];
    >


    Nice, I'll save this query for future reference. Seems like
    szReferencedObject is the table, and the *Column is the column, but
    I'll play around with it.

    BTW, my problem with Access turned out not to be a big deal, it's that
    I had a subform (dependent child table) that had some weird
    relationships and it was messing up my parent table when I changed the
    keys and schema (architecture) stuff "mid-stream", with all kinds of
    data still embedded in the dB from a previous schema...so it was a
    specific problem just for my kludgy dB I'm learning from (but even
    after 1 week of programming without even knowing Visual Basic--I know
    C, C#, C++ under Visual Studio, I have a pretty slick looking dB under
    Access--I doubt "Ruby on Rails" or whatever would allow me to do
    that).


    > They just plain hate MS is all, and it doesn't matter how great the MS
    > technology is.
    >


    Yes, true. I like Rex Ballard's long-winded 'insider' posts, but when
    I read them carefully it seems that he's selling a load of rap--it's
    too slick and easy. Even under the excellent world class Visual
    Studio you run into problems a lot, so I can't imagine the first
    generation crude Linux coding tools are any better.

    > That game last night was damn good football. *Down 12 points and they rally
    > to win by 3. *Sweet!


    Yeah the NEP are making up for some dreadful years in the cellar back
    in the days. They are a dynasty, and let's see if somebody can knock
    them off their pedestal. I don't watch that much sports (for one
    thing they don't carry US sports in Euroland), but American football
    rules and beats boring old soccer that they watch over here. How many
    1-0 soccer games can you enjoy (unless it's the World Cup finals)?

    >
    > > Linux = weak team of amateurs. *Who
    > > is going to win the Super Bowl next month? *(Hint: NEP--which is also
    > > the acronym for Lenin's communist version of capitalism--you Linux
    > > nuts should know communist ideology).

    >
    > Didn't they hear communism and socialism are failures as political and
    > social ideologies? *Capitalism, private ownership and the pursuit of
    > personal wealth are far, far, far greater motivators than "working for the
    > community".


    LOL, how true!

    RL

  18. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL isported to Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:29:47 -0500, DFS wrote:


    >> BTW: Foreign keys in MS Access are pointless to my recollection.

    >
    > As usual when a cola bozo recollects anything about MS, it's wrong.


    It was lookup fields I was thinking of:

    #
    # Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name
    won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a
    criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a
    value list, the data in the table can be over-written.

    # Another relationship is created which then creates another set of
    indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database
    unnecessarily.

    # If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is
    applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter
    and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the
    value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error).

    # Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data,
    causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be
    modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up
    within a proper relationship) may not be optimized.


    http://www.mvps.org/access/lookupfields.htm



    -Thufir

  19. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 30, 8:36*pm, Thufir wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:29:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
    > >> BTW: *Foreign keys in MS Access are pointless to my recollection.

    >
    > > As usual when a cola bozo recollects anything about MS, it's wrong.

    >
    > It was lookup fields I was thinking of:


    As usual when a Cola bozo thinks of something about MS, it's wrong.

    Here is a screenshot of the power of lookup fields in Access:

    http://www.databasedev.co.uk/subform-total.html

    And if it looks good, it is good, and your client is happy and you get
    paid. Sounds like something COLA members have never experienced.

    RL

  20. Re: What Linux programming tools for SQL are there? (MySQL is portedto Linux but that's a language, not a API)

    On Dec 31 2007, 9:55 am, raylopez99 wrote:
    [...]
    > And if it looks good, it is good, and your client is happy and you get
    > paid. Sounds like something COLA members have never experienced.



    Which fails to address the MVP's arguments.


    -thufir

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