Hadron wrote:

> thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com writes:
>
>> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't even get me started about the Windows look and feel cut and paste
>>> crap that more and more Linux apps are adopting.
>>
>> My girlfriend went on a rant the other day about Windows not using
>> the middle mouse button to paste. She has grown quite used to the
>> Linux/X way of doing things and finds it quite annoying when she
>> occasionally has to use someone's Windows box.
>>
>> Thad
>
> Oh for goodness sake.
>

Do you actually claim that getting used to some of the fine features of
linux is a bad thing, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs
user", "swapfile expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server
admin", "defragger professional", "newsreader magician", "hardware
maven", "time coordinator" and "email sage" Hadron Quark, aka Hans
Schneider, aka Richard, aka Damian O'Leary?

Windows way of cutting/pasting *is* annoying when one works mainly with
linux
--
Linux is not a desktop OS for people whose VCRs are still
flashing "12:00". -- Paul Tomblin

Peter Köhlmann writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>
>> thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com writes:
>>
>>> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Don't even get me started about the Windows look and feel cut and paste
>>>> crap that more and more Linux apps are adopting.
>>>
>>> My girlfriend went on a rant the other day about Windows not using
>>> the middle mouse button to paste. She has grown quite used to the
>>> Linux/X way of doing things and finds it quite annoying when she
>>> occasionally has to use someone's Windows box.
>>>
>>> Thad
>>
>> Oh for goodness sake.
>>
>
> Do you actually claim that getting used to some of the fine features of
> linux is a bad thing, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs

No. Why? I just think that that comment is so mundane as to not worth
mentioning.

BTW which "linux" feature is this Peter?

Or are you confusing desktop manager/window manager with the core OS
again?

But you knew that this is a X thing?

And that it's ALSO available for Windows?

You didn't? Oh dear me. Poor Peter.

http://www.ghacks.net/2006/09/11/cop...-mouse-button/

Hadron wrote:
> Peter Köhlmann writes:


> But you knew that this is a X thing?
>
> And that it's ALSO available for Windows?
>
> You didn't? Oh dear me. Poor Peter.
>
> http://www.ghacks.net/2006/09/11/cop...-mouse-button/



Or you point-click your IntelliMouse system to set your wheel-middle button
to Paste

http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...ddle_paste.png

On Monday 31 Dec 2007 11:51 am, Peter Köhlmann wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

> Hadron wrote:
>
>> thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com writes:
>>
>>> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Don't even get me started about the Windows look and feel cut and paste
>>>> crap that more and more Linux apps are adopting.
>>>
>>> My girlfriend went on a rant the other day about Windows not using
>>> the middle mouse button to paste. She has grown quite used to the
>>> Linux/X way of doing things and finds it quite annoying when she
>>> occasionally has to use someone's Windows box.
>>>
>>> Thad
>>
>> Oh for goodness sake.
>>
>
> Do you actually claim that getting used to some of the fine features of
> linux is a bad thing, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs
> user", "swapfile expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server
> admin", "defragger professional", "newsreader magician", "hardware
> maven", "time coordinator" and "email sage" Hadron Quark, aka Hans
> Schneider, aka Richard, aka Damian O'Leary?
>
> Windows way of cutting/pasting *is* annoying when one works mainly with
> linux

Maybe Quack wants linux distros to be like M$ Windoze. From his whines & moans,
& his "Windows apps are better than linux ones" it would seem so.

--
It takes time, this. One slight error in any of my thirteen billion
calculations and we'll be blasted to smithereens.
Here we go, then: 10, 9, 8, 6, 5--
--Holly - Red Dwarf--

"DFS" writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
>
>
>> But you knew that this is a X thing?
>>
>> And that it's ALSO available for Windows?
>>
>> You didn't? Oh dear me. Poor Peter.
>>
>> http://www.ghacks.net/2006/09/11/cop...-mouse-button/
>
>
>
> Or you point-click your IntelliMouse system to set your wheel-middle button
> to Paste
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...ddle_paste.png


Shhh!!!!

I'm being accused of being negative about kewl "linux things" by Peter!

* Tim Smith fired off this tart reply:

> In article <4778648F.4FE803A0@hovnanian.com>,
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
>> Don't even get me started about the Windows look and feel cut and paste
>> crap that more and more Linux apps are adopting.
>>
>> If you can get both methods to work, fine. But I'm seeing more Linux
>> apps that don't work any way other than the 'Windows Way'.
>
> The Windows way is the standard X way, and has been for many many many
> years:
>
>

You're nuts, Tim. Did you even /read/ the article, or did you stop
reading at this paragraph:

Contrary to what you may have come to believe, copying and pasting
text under X11 works pretty much exactly the same way it does under
MacOS and Windows. Really.

. . .

It happens that X11 programs have a second way of copying and pasting
text that is orthogonal to the Edit/Copy way described above.

--
Tux rox!

* thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com fired off this tart reply:

> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>
>> Don't even get me started about the Windows look and feel cut and paste
>> crap that more and more Linux apps are adopting.
>
> My girlfriend went on a rant the other day about Windows not using
> the middle mouse button to paste. She has grown quite used to the
> Linux/X way of doing things and finds it quite annoying when she
> occasionally has to use someone's Windows box.

Other Windows annoyances (besides Hadron and DFS obtuseness, anyway):

o Lack of auto-focus
o Lack of auto-raise
o Lack of virtual desktops
o Lack of Alt-mouse window movement and resizing (although the
Alt-Space menu is a decent alternative, though not usable if
the title-bar isn't visible.)

And I've gotten quite fond of Fluxbox's window handling.

Questions:

1. Can you customize the Windows desktop keystrokes?

2. Where can you find help for the Windows desktop keystrokes?

--
Tux rox!

* DFS fired off this tart reply:

> Hadron wrote:
>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
>
>
>> But you knew that this is a X thing?
>> And that it's ALSO available for Windows?
>> You didn't? Oh dear me. Poor Peter.
>>
>> http://www.ghacks.net/2006/09/11/cop...-mouse-button/

Cool!

Did Microsoft provide this innovative technology?

Apparently it is not quite the same as X, though. You have to hit the
middle-button once to /copy/ the text, and once to /paste/ it.

Yeah, I'm sure that will comfort the typical X Windows user, who expects
the first middle-button click to /paste/ it.

And here's a comment on it:

Sadly, this application overrides the other middle-mouse button
functions, and it\u2019s somewhat unnerving to discover that it must
come to this price.

> Or you point-click your IntelliMouse system to set your wheel-middle button
> to Paste
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...ddle_paste.png

That handles only the pasting side, unfortunately.

Nice try, though.

--
Tux rox!

Linonut wrote:

> * DFS fired off this tart reply:
>
>> Hadron wrote:
>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
>>
>>
>>> But you knew that this is a X thing?
>>> And that it's ALSO available for Windows?
>>> You didn't? Oh dear me. Poor Peter.
>>>
>>> http://www.ghacks.net/2006/09/11/cop...-mouse-button/
>
> Cool!
>
> Did Microsoft provide this innovative technology?
>
> Apparently it is not quite the same as X, though. You have to hit the
> middle-button once to /copy/ the text, and once to /paste/ it.
>
> Yeah, I'm sure that will comfort the typical X Windows user, who expects
> the first middle-button click to /paste/ it.
>
> And here's a comment on it:
>
> Sadly, this application overrides the other middle-mouse button
> functions, and it\u2019s somewhat unnerving to discover that it must
> come to this price.

Hadron expects actually that I use a program like that?
Why not ask directly to install the next round of malware willingly?
Apart from disabling functions which are needed more

>> Or you point-click your IntelliMouse system to set your wheel-middle
>> button to Paste
>>
>> http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...ddle_paste.png
>
> That handles only the pasting side, unfortunately.
>
> Nice try, though.
>

And totally useless for anyone without IntelliMouse

So, no, still no viable windows alternative provided

Poor Hadron
--
Windows: Because everyone needs a good laugh!

Hadron wrote:
>>
>> Do you actually claim that getting used to some of the fine features of
>> linux is a bad thing, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs
>
> No. Why? I just think that that comment is so mundane as to not worth
> mentioning.

Humble appologies... I promise to strive for stomach twisting excitement
in all future posts. :P Seriously, the GF prefers the X middle-button
paste and claims she can work faster without having to hit the keyboard
or hunt through drag down menus. Chalk it up to 'people like and are
more productive with what they are used to' if you wish. I am just
relaying some second hand Linux advocacy. You prefer I go do it in
alt.os.ms.windows.my.pc.is.borked?

Thad
--
Yeah, I drank the Open Source cool-aid... Unlike the other brand, it had
all the ingredients on the label.

In article ,
Linonut wrote:
> > The Windows way is the standard X way, and has been for many many many
> > years:
> >
> >
>
> You're nuts, Tim. Did you even /read/ the article, or did you stop
> reading at this paragraph:
>
> Contrary to what you may have come to believe, copying and pasting
> text under X11 works pretty much exactly the same way it does under
> MacOS and Windows. Really.
>
> . . .
>
> It happens that X11 programs have a second way of copying and pasting
> text that is orthogonal to the Edit/Copy way described above.

I don't consider that to be copy and paste. It is something...else.
It's more grab and paste. Consider that if you select something, it is
not actually copied anywhere at that point. If you go to another app,
and the first app exists, you can't paste it in, for example. If the
first app is still running, however, then you can have it go and grab
the selection from the first app and enter it.

But woe until you if you happen to select something in the destination
app first--now you've lost the selection in the first app.

But if you want to be pedantic (the pedantic side is strong in you...you
will come over to the pedantic side sometime...don't fight it...), then
I should have said the Windows way is *a* standard X way, and has been
so for many many many years.

--
--Tim Smith

* Tim Smith fired off this tart reply:

> I don't consider that to be copy and paste. It is something...else.
> It's more grab and paste. Consider that if you select something, it is
> not actually copied anywhere at that point. If you go to another app,
> and the first app exists, you can't paste it in, for example. If the
> first app is still running, however, then you can have it go and grab
> the selection from the first app and enter it.

I'm not sure what the heck you are saying in the paragraph above. It
doesn't make sense to me.

> But woe until you if you happen to select something in the destination
> app first--now you've lost the selection in the first app.

True. However, if you're running Gnome, the gnome clipboard will have
all selections (I think -- I've only seen that when running gnome-session
under fluxbox. Gnome-session takes over the clipboard. After I learned
that, I switch back to using xfce-mcs-manager).

And if you are not running Gnome, you can always run xclipboard, a
primitive-looking (you can fix it up with some standard X options like
-geometry, -fn, -fg, and -bg, of course) but quite useful little
app.

It can even grab stuff that Edit/Copy-only web pages or apps will copy.
(I've had Firefox selections give me an <> in certain
web pages, and this case requires using Edit/Copy).

> But if you want to be pedantic (the pedantic side is strong in you...you
> will come over to the pedantic side sometime...don't fight it...), then
> I should have said the Windows way is *a* standard X way, and has been
> so for many many many years.

If so, that would seem to be by chance . Anyway, I've grown to
prefer the X Windows middle-click mantra to the One Windows Way. As
I've said before, I find Windows pretty confining now. And I can't be
"arsed" to go out of my way to track down some shareware to cope with
Windows deficiencies.

--
Tux rox!

Linonut wrote:
>
[snip]

> If so, that would seem to be by chance . Anyway, I've grown to
> prefer the X Windows middle-click mantra to the One Windows Way. As
> I've said before, I find Windows pretty confining now. And I can't be
> "arsed" to go out of my way to track down some shareware to cope with
> Windows deficiencies.

And try selecting/pasting between clients running on different Windows
systems. Oh, wait. You can't even direct multiple Windows hosts to a
single display (without major hacks or 3rd party s/w).

You can do the above between any clients that use X as a native display,
regardless of their underlying O/S. In fact, (with the aforementioned
major hacks and 3rd party s/w), a Windows desktop can be displayed as a
single window on an X display. And then the standard X select/paste
operations using mouse buttons alone work.

> --
> Tux rox!

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
The world is coming to an end. Please log off.

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
news:477EE959.B83509AB@hovnanian.com...
> Linonut wrote:
>>
> [snip]
>
>> If so, that would seem to be by chance . Anyway, I've grown to
>> prefer the X Windows middle-click mantra to the One Windows Way. As
>> I've said before, I find Windows pretty confining now. And I can't be
>> "arsed" to go out of my way to track down some shareware to cope with
>> Windows deficiencies.
>
> And try selecting/pasting between clients running on different Windows
> systems. Oh, wait. You can't even direct multiple Windows hosts to a
> single display (without major hacks or 3rd party s/w).
>
Works just fine on Windows. Use Remote Desktop to connect to a number of
other Windows machines. Then you can cut/paste between them all you want.

..

* Paul Hovnanian P.E. fired off this tart reply:

> You can do the above between any clients that use X as a native display,
> regardless of their underlying O/S. In fact, (with the aforementioned
> major hacks and 3rd party s/w), a Windows desktop can be displayed as a
> single window on an X display. And then the standard X select/paste
> operations using mouse buttons alone work.

You can set up VMware so that a Ctrl-C (copy) of text in Windows can
then be middle-click pasted into a document.

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* amicus_curious fired off this tart reply:

> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
> news:477EE959.B83509AB@hovnanian.com...
>> Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> If so, that would seem to be by chance . Anyway, I've grown to
>>> prefer the X Windows middle-click mantra to the One Windows Way. As
>>> I've said before, I find Windows pretty confining now. And I can't be
>>> "arsed" to go out of my way to track down some shareware to cope with
>>> Windows deficiencies.
>>
>> And try selecting/pasting between clients running on different Windows
>> systems. Oh, wait. You can't even direct multiple Windows hosts to a
>> single display (without major hacks or 3rd party s/w).
>>
> Works just fine on Windows. Use Remote Desktop to connect to a number of
> other Windows machines. Then you can cut/paste between them all you want.

Maybe Paul thinks RDP is a "major hack". (If so, then so is VNC on
Windwos ).

By default (at least in my usage of RDP at home to connect from Linux to
an XP box), the RDP logon kicks off the current user of the XP
desktop. I assume that's a function of XP Pro not being a server, and
hence not being licensed for multiple simultaneous users.

This feature matrix indicates that RDP is pretty feature-full compared
to other remoting protocols, although the union of protocols featured
for X WIndows seems to match the feature set of RDP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...sktop_software

Has anyone here used Sun Secure Global Desktop?

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On Jan 5, 11:03 am, Linonut wrote:
> * amicus_curious fired off this tart reply:
> > "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message

> >> And try selecting/pasting between clients running on different Windows
> >> systems. Oh, wait. You can't even direct multiple Windows hosts to a
> >> single display (without major hacks or 3rd party s/w).
>
> > Works just fine on Windows. Use Remote Desktop to connect to a number of
> > other Windows machines. Then you can cut/paste between them all you want.
>
> Maybe Paul thinks RDP is a "major hack". (If so, then so is VNC on
> Windwos ).

He might not think so, but Microsoft does. If you read the Windows XP
EULA very carefully, Microsoft forbids remote access of the desktop
from a machine that is not licensed with Windows XP. So even if you
put VNC server on a dozen Windows workstations, you can't access any
them from a Linux system, unless the box was purchased with an XP
Professional license.

I'm not sure how Microsoft gets away with that, given that they are
expressly forbidden by the DOJ settlement from taking actions that
exclude Linux users from accessing Windows servers, even if those
servers are workstations, but that doesn't seem to stop Microsoft, and
the Bush administration doesn't seem to think this is a problem.

> By default (at least in my usage of RDP at home to connect from Linux to
> an XP box), the RDP logon kicks off the current user off the XP
> desktop.

There are actually several products which will allow a Linux user to
access a Windows console, but Microsoft's license mandates that the
Linux box must be licensed for Windows XP.

Vista doesn't even allow this. In fact, the Vista license expressly
forbids calling any Vista library function from any system other than
Vista, even if the machine also runs Linux. If you buy Vista Business
edition, you can run Vista as a virtual client, but then again, who
would want to, it's a memory pig.

> I assume that's a function of XP Pro not being a server, and
> hence not being licensed for multiple simultaneous users.

Actually, it's a restriction in the workstation, and even though you
only have one user accessing the remote workstation, the workstation
has to be licensed for Windows XP. Perhaps this is why so many Linux
users order their machines with Windows XP preinstalled.

amicus_curious wrote:
>
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
> news:477EE959.B83509AB@hovnanian.com...
> > Linonut wrote:
> >>
> > [snip]
> >
> >> If so, that would seem to be by chance . Anyway, I've grown to
> >> prefer the X Windows middle-click mantra to the One Windows Way. As
> >> I've said before, I find Windows pretty confining now. And I can't be
> >> "arsed" to go out of my way to track down some shareware to cope with
> >> Windows deficiencies.
> >
> > And try selecting/pasting between clients running on different Windows
> > systems. Oh, wait. You can't even direct multiple Windows hosts to a
> > single display (without major hacks or 3rd party s/w).
> >
> Works just fine on Windows. Use Remote Desktop to connect to a number of
> other Windows machines. Then you can cut/paste between them all you want.

Sorry. The stuff I need isn't on Windows machines.

And its a nightmare of license restrictions and EULAs to access Windows
machines from non-Windows systems or vice versa. Its just not worth our
time.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
I love guns. Its bullets that I can't stand.

Linonut wrote:
>
> * Paul Hovnanian P.E. fired off this tart reply:
>
> > You can do the above between any clients that use X as a native display,
> > regardless of their underlying O/S. In fact, (with the aforementioned
> > major hacks and 3rd party s/w), a Windows desktop can be displayed as a
> > single window on an X display. And then the standard X select/paste
> > operations using mouse buttons alone work.
>
> You can set up VMware so that a Ctrl-C (copy) of text in Windows can
> then be middle-click pasted into a document.

Too many extra keystrokes. I can just feel my carpal tunnel flaring up
thinking about it

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.