Extent of cross-platform development in free applications - Linux

This is a discussion on Extent of cross-platform development in free applications - Linux ; What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and Windows? One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to replace the most popular applications with free ones. If the user can run the same apps ...

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  1. Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and Windows?

    One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    replace the most popular applications with free ones.

    If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    apps also increase that demand.

    We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    and OpenOffice.

    The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    and music composition, to name a few.

    What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    licenses similar to GPL?


  2. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    On Dec 11, 1:57 pm, Matt wrote:
    > What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and Windows?

    [snip]
    > What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    > applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    > licenses similar to GPL?


    There are quite a number of GPL'ed apps that run on Linux and Windows.
    Since Mac is essentially a Unix system, almost anything that runs on
    Linux runs on Mac as well.

    You might want to check out http://www.winlibre.com/en/index.php among
    others

  3. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    On Dec 11, 1:57 pm, Matt wrote:
    > What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and Windows?

    [snip]
    > What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    > applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    > licenses similar to GPL?


    There are quite a number of GPL'ed apps that run on Linux and Windows.
    Since Mac is essentially a Unix system, almost anything that runs on
    Linux runs on Mac as well.

    You might want to check out http://www.winlibre.com/en/index.php among
    others

  4. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Matt wrote:

    > What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and
    > Windows?
    >
    > One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    > replace the most popular applications with free ones.
    >
    > If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    > aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    > less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    > OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    > apps also increase that demand.
    >
    > We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    > large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    > and OpenOffice.
    >
    > The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    > applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    > and music composition, to name a few.
    >
    > What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    > applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    > licenses similar to GPL?




    There are some 20,000 to 40,000 open source apps out there.
    You couldn't evaluate them all even if you tried.
    The best way is to define what YOU need for yourself,
    then install something like Ubuntu and search the repositors
    for the things that are missing in your opinion using synaptic.

    The cross platform approach is a just a waste of time in my opinion.
    Have two separate machines or a virtual PC running in Linux with your
    must have windopws app. After a while you begin to see the need to
    stop using windopws applications and rely more on formats that
    interoperate between apps. Linux is king when it comes to interoperability
    because the source code is available to make all things interoperate.
    Even if you didn't have some feature in a particular app,
    just ring up some open source orgs, offer a bounty, and some coder will
    extend your app to include that functionality.
    I would dearly like for example right now for Gambas (a VB clone) to have
    DXF output feature. I could write it myself taking code from QCad or pay
    someone to do it for me. Thats how open source works.

    Not so long ago, I wanted a feature in Gimp to save an image as a C file
    with the data in the C file which you would then compile and then output to
    an LCD. And lo and behold, someone had already thought of this and had done
    it beforehand!!! So you really really have to search for what you need
    as well, because there are so many features in these packages that are
    available, that you don't get time to track them down if you are not careful
    with your search querries and end up duplicating the effort.

    So in my humble opinion, cross platfor stuff is a waste of time. Stick
    to open source and may be a virtual PC for stuff thats been locked up
    and then rely on document interchange
    standards to get your data back and forth between apps which is where
    it all matters in the end when you are engaged in commercial use of IT.



  5. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Matt wrote:

    > What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and
    > Windows?
    >
    > One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    > replace the most popular applications with free ones.
    >
    > If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    > aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    > less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    > OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    > apps also increase that demand.
    >
    > We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    > large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    > and OpenOffice.
    >
    > The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    > applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    > and music composition, to name a few.
    >
    > What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    > applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    > licenses similar to GPL?




    There are some 20,000 to 40,000 open source apps out there.
    You couldn't evaluate them all even if you tried.
    The best way is to define what YOU need for yourself,
    then install something like Ubuntu and search the repositors
    for the things that are missing in your opinion using synaptic.

    The cross platform approach is a just a waste of time in my opinion.
    Have two separate machines or a virtual PC running in Linux with your
    must have windopws app. After a while you begin to see the need to
    stop using windopws applications and rely more on formats that
    interoperate between apps. Linux is king when it comes to interoperability
    because the source code is available to make all things interoperate.
    Even if you didn't have some feature in a particular app,
    just ring up some open source orgs, offer a bounty, and some coder will
    extend your app to include that functionality.
    I would dearly like for example right now for Gambas (a VB clone) to have
    DXF output feature. I could write it myself taking code from QCad or pay
    someone to do it for me. Thats how open source works.

    Not so long ago, I wanted a feature in Gimp to save an image as a C file
    with the data in the C file which you would then compile and then output to
    an LCD. And lo and behold, someone had already thought of this and had done
    it beforehand!!! So you really really have to search for what you need
    as well, because there are so many features in these packages that are
    available, that you don't get time to track them down if you are not careful
    with your search querries and end up duplicating the effort.

    So in my humble opinion, cross platfor stuff is a waste of time. Stick
    to open source and may be a virtual PC for stuff thats been locked up
    and then rely on document interchange
    standards to get your data back and forth between apps which is where
    it all matters in the end when you are engaged in commercial use of IT.



  6. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    "7" schreef in bericht
    news:ZhC7j.61437$c_1.20410@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
    > Matt wrote:
    >
    >> What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and
    >> Windows?
    >>
    >> One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    >> replace the most popular applications with free ones.
    >>
    >> If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    >> aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    >> less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    >> OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    >> apps also increase that demand.
    >>
    >> We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    >> large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    >> and OpenOffice.
    >>
    >> The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    >> applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    >> and music composition, to name a few.
    >>
    >> What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    >> applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    >> licenses similar to GPL?

    >
    >
    > Terhe are smoe 20,000 to 40,000 oepn scuore apps out tehre.
    > You cnuold't etaalvue tehm all eevn if you teird.
    > The bset way is to denife waht YOU need for ylroesuf,
    > tehn ilantsl smniethog lkie Untubu and sercah the rierootpss
    > for the tngihs taht are misinsg in yuor onpiion unisg stniapyc.


    > The cosrs potrfalm aprocaph is a jsut a watse of tmie in my opoinin.
    > Hvae two srtaapee mcenhias or a vrtauil PC rnnniug in Lnuix wtih yuor
    > msut hvae wndowips app. Atefr a whlie you beign to see the need t


    > sotp using winpwods aiptpnoiacls and rley mroe on frtaoms that
    > ittnreorapee btweeen apps. Lniux is knig wehn it comes to itrbeorapinlitey
    > basuece the suroce cdoe is ailvlaabe to mkae all thgnis ieprtnaerote.
    > Eevn if you didn't hvae smoe faeurte in a pairacultr app,
    > jsut rnig up smoe oepn scuroe orgs, ofefr a btnouy, and smoe ceodr will
    > etexnd yuor app to ilcunde taht fniiuattonlcy.
    > I would dalery lkie for elpaxme rhigt now for Gmabas (a VB cnloe) to hvae
    > DXF otuupt fetaure. I culod witre it meyslf tnkaig cdoe form QaCd or pay
    > soenmoe to do it for me. Thats how oepn srouce works.


    > Not so lnog aog, I wneatd a frteuae in Gmip to svae an imgae as a C flie
    > wtih the dtaa in the C flie whcih you wloud tehn cmiolpe and tehn ouutpt t


    > an LDC. And lo and bhoeld, sneomoe had arelday tuhohgt of tihs and had
    > done
    > it bnehreafod!!! So you rellay rlaley hvae to seacrh for waht you need
    > as well, bcasuee tehre are so mnay ftareeus in thsee pgcakaes taht are
    > ablliaave, taht you don't get tmie to tacrk tehm dwon if you are not
    > caefurl
    > wtih yuor scaerh qeeriurs and end up dnpicitlaug the efroft.


    > So in my hblume onopiin, cross platofr sfutf is a wstae of time. Stcik
    > to oepn soucre and may be a virtual PC for sfutf taths been leckod up
    > and tehn rley on dnoumect irncnahtege
    > sanrtddas to get yuor dtaa bcak and ftroh beteewn apps whcih is wehre
    > it all mretats in the end wehn you are eaggend in cicmmaerol use of IT.


    WHAT??
















































  7. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    7 wrote:
    > Matt wrote:
    >
    >> What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and
    >> Windows?
    >>
    >> One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    >> replace the most popular applications with free ones.
    >>
    >> If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    >> aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    >> less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    >> OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    >> apps also increase that demand.
    >>
    >> We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    >> large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    >> and OpenOffice.
    >>
    >> The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    >> applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    >> and music composition, to name a few.
    >>
    >> What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    >> applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    >> licenses similar to GPL?

    >
    >
    >
    > There are some 20,000 to 40,000 open source apps out there.
    > You couldn't evaluate them all even if you tried.
    > The best way is to define what YOU need for yourself,
    > then install something like Ubuntu and search the repositors
    > for the things that are missing in your opinion using synaptic.


    It seems you have pretty much missed my point.

    I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.

    Get the idea?

  8. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    7 wrote:
    > Matt wrote:
    >
    >> What applications commonly available for Linux also run on Mac and
    >> Windows?
    >>
    >> One of the main strategies in breaking Microsoft lock-in should be to
    >> replace the most popular applications with free ones.
    >>
    >> If the user can run the same apps on different OSes, he can become less
    >> aware of the OS. As the OS becomes less relevant to the user, there is
    >> less objection in switching away from Windows. The rise of non-Windows
    >> OSes increases the general demand for cross-platform apps. Web-based
    >> apps also increase that demand.
    >>
    >> We have seen a start to this scenario with the rise of several
    >> large-niche cross-platform apps, most importantly Firefox, Thunderbird,
    >> and OpenOffice.
    >>
    >> The next step would be cross-platform implementations of smaller-niche
    >> applications, such as those for image processing, internet conferencing,
    >> and music composition, to name a few.
    >>
    >> What is the current general situation regarding portability of free
    >> applications, notably those now available for Linux and covered by
    >> licenses similar to GPL?

    >
    >
    >
    > There are some 20,000 to 40,000 open source apps out there.
    > You couldn't evaluate them all even if you tried.
    > The best way is to define what YOU need for yourself,
    > then install something like Ubuntu and search the repositors
    > for the things that are missing in your opinion using synaptic.


    It seems you have pretty much missed my point.

    I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.

    Get the idea?

  9. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    * Matt fired off this tart reply:

    > I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    > Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    > development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    > the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    > as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.
    >
    > Get the idea?


    We do. We're already quite a few years into this program.

    Unless you are already steeped in Microsoft lore, it is very simple to
    write cross-platform apps, even in C. There are so many libraries
    already out there, that there is little excuse to not make your
    application cross-platform to start with.

    Heck, you can even make it free of Microsoft technology (but just try
    side-stepping Microsoft patents ).

    It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    write code that is Windows-only.

    --
    I GNU there was something up here!

  10. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    * Matt fired off this tart reply:

    > I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    > Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    > development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    > the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    > as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.
    >
    > Get the idea?


    We do. We're already quite a few years into this program.

    Unless you are already steeped in Microsoft lore, it is very simple to
    write cross-platform apps, even in C. There are so many libraries
    already out there, that there is little excuse to not make your
    application cross-platform to start with.

    Heck, you can even make it free of Microsoft technology (but just try
    side-stepping Microsoft patents ).

    It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    write code that is Windows-only.

    --
    I GNU there was something up here!

  11. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Thanks for your reply.

    Linonut wrote:

    > * Matt fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    >> Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    >> development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    >> the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    >> as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.
    >>
    >> Get the idea?

    >
    > We do. We're already quite a few years into this program.


    I see that _you_ do.

    >
    > Unless you are already steeped in Microsoft lore, it is very simple to
    > write cross-platform apps, even in C. There are so many libraries
    > already out there, that there is little excuse to not make your
    > application cross-platform to start with.


    Agreed that it isn't so hard to do. As I mentioned, we have FF, TBird,
    and OO. I am asking about the extent to which smaller-niche apps are
    _actually_ being built to run cross-platform. Lew Pitcher provided an
    informative link to winlibre.com.

  12. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Thanks for your reply.

    Linonut wrote:

    > * Matt fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> I am talking about part of a five or ten or twenty year program to break
    >> Microsoft's (for that matter anyone's) general stranglehold on software
    >> development. This is to be done partly by removing OS dependencies from
    >> the source code of increasingly-many applications---by using tools such
    >> as GTK+, Qt, OpenGL, and Java in increasingly-many apps.
    >>
    >> Get the idea?

    >
    > We do. We're already quite a few years into this program.


    I see that _you_ do.

    >
    > Unless you are already steeped in Microsoft lore, it is very simple to
    > write cross-platform apps, even in C. There are so many libraries
    > already out there, that there is little excuse to not make your
    > application cross-platform to start with.


    Agreed that it isn't so hard to do. As I mentioned, we have FF, TBird,
    and OO. I am asking about the extent to which smaller-niche apps are
    _actually_ being built to run cross-platform. Lew Pitcher provided an
    informative link to winlibre.com.

  13. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Linonut wrote:
    > It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    > write code that is Windows-only.


    Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and why people
    are still writing code that is *nix-only.

  14. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Linonut wrote:
    > It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    > write code that is Windows-only.


    Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and why people
    are still writing code that is *nix-only.

  15. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >> write code that is Windows-only.

    >
    > Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    > why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.


    Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    Windows.

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! Everybody gets free
    at BORSCHT!
    visi.com

  16. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >> write code that is Windows-only.

    >
    > Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    > why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.


    Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    Windows.

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! Everybody gets free
    at BORSCHT!
    visi.com

  17. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Grant Edwards wrote:
    > On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >>> write code that is Windows-only.

    >> Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    >> why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.

    >
    > Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    > Windows.


    I expect that also you have no need or desire for Linux share on the
    desktop to rise above one-half percent.

    But who do you mean by "we"?

  18. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Grant Edwards wrote:
    > On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >>> write code that is Windows-only.

    >> Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    >> why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.

    >
    > Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    > Windows.


    I expect that also you have no need or desire for Linux share on the
    desktop to rise above one-half percent.

    But who do you mean by "we"?

  19. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Matt wrote:

    > Grant Edwards wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    >>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >>>> write code that is Windows-only.
    >>> Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    >>> why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.

    >>
    >> Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    >> Windows.

    >
    > I expect that also you have no need or desire for Linux share on the
    > desktop to rise above one-half percent.


    You are writing like some kind of loon.
    The open source movement has no such desires.
    What it offers is choice.
    You are given the choice to run open source or closed source
    equivalent.

    > But who do you mean by "we"?


    Everyone in the open source movement.


  20. Re: Extent of cross-platform development in free applications

    Matt wrote:

    > Grant Edwards wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-12, Matt wrote:
    >>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>> It's a matter of ignorance and carelessness, really, that makes people
    >>>> write code that is Windows-only.
    >>> Well, it is a problem, isn't it? Now I might ask whether and
    >>> why people are still writing code that is *nix-only.

    >>
    >> Because we don't have any need or desire to make it run under
    >> Windows.

    >
    > I expect that also you have no need or desire for Linux share on the
    > desktop to rise above one-half percent.


    You are writing like some kind of loon.
    The open source movement has no such desires.
    What it offers is choice.
    You are given the choice to run open source or closed source
    equivalent.

    > But who do you mean by "we"?


    Everyone in the open source movement.


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