Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish - Linux

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Thread: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

  1. Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    Just popped in to say a fond farewell. I am moving on to another company and
    a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more, but
    actually I have been losing interest anyway, my heart just isn't in this
    anymore.

    On a possitive note (the previous paragraph was probably a possitive note
    for some) let me tell you what I am moving on to, because it's a nice bit
    of Linux advocacy.

    It is a company that wants to be pure Linux, servers and clients. They hold
    very sensitive data and a great deal of it, but have had loss of data as
    well as data protection problems.

    We all have our favourite servers, my personal current favourite server
    distro is SLES except for the reason I'll tell you about in a moment, but
    this particular system I am taking over will be better on Redhats, so that
    is likely the way I will go. Anyway, I am getting less impressed with SLES
    lately, I mentioned some time ago of the terrible install around LDAP, I
    don't install or use LDAP, but I got it anyway, and then it did a very
    terrible thing, instead of waiting for me to set a LDAP source and doing
    nothing if I didn't, it went off over the internet looking for one. That is
    such an incredibly bad thing to do. Do you have a slow SLES and don't see
    anything in top that suggests a problem? Then have a sniff of your internet
    traffic, not much in Linux rocks my socks off these days, but that little
    discovery did it.

    As for the desks, there are a massive number of desktops spread around the
    country all moving to Linux.

    The one thing that this company does have is great communications, so I am
    confident that the vast proportion of my work, once they are on Linux
    clients, can be done from one location.

    As for the clients, I haven't set it in stone just yet, but I am leaning
    towards SLED. The reason I am thinking that way rather than my second
    choice of pure Debian, Debian would be easier for me to maintain centrally
    (thinking of the number of desktops) but SLED is much more pleasant for the
    users.

    The company also has a couple of MS servers, which are also under spec for
    the workload. My instinct tells me to replace them and merge the tasks into
    the Linux servers, for no other reason than I can not look after MS servers
    with the same confidence that I can Linux servers. But actually I am
    starting to consider keeping one of them, updated and on better hardware.

    Shock horror, why would I want a MS Server? Well the future of all computing
    what ever the OS is going to be remote applications, trust me, if you don't
    like or believe anything else I ever say trust me in this one thing, remote
    applications, on your servers or on your Internet are going to be the norm
    eventually.

    Linux is a natural for that obviously, UNIX had this capability when Linux
    was just a glint in someone's eye. But we can't ignore the fact that MS is
    also quickly coming up to speed in this area.

    ..NET3.x-Ajax is incredibly good, I would now put .NET on a par with
    php-ajax. Java is still the key to full apps, but that too is changing in
    all the right ways.

    So ignoring MS in that area would be a terrible mistake, these silly OS wars
    we have now will become more and more insignificant as the years roll on
    until the time comes when people don't actually know what OS is running
    their applications, they shouldn't need to know.

    So, it's goodbuy from me. Obviously I'll be popping back to see if anyone
    misses me, but only to look rather than respond, because my PDA is great
    for reading news groups but a right pain in the arse if you try to post
    from it I sent a post to a redhat group once and my dad called me
    because he was totally confused by the email he just received, '... and by
    the the what is a vm server and where should I get it from?'.




  2. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    BearItAll wrote:

    >Just popped in to say a fond farewell. I am moving on to another company and
    >a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more,


    L8er, dude!


  3. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    ____/ BearItAll on Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:15 : \____

    Will you still be on teh intranets? Good. :-) So there probably will never be a
    goodbye.

    > So ignoring MS in that area would be a terrible mistake, these silly OS wars
    > we have now will become more and more insignificant as the years roll on
    > until the time comes when people don't actually know what OS is running
    > their applications, they shouldn't need to know.


    "OS wars" is probably the wrong term to use. The OSes are tools. There is a
    broader picture. There is a network and a system that is controlled by and
    exists to serve the users. There are also networks on system that are there to
    give Big Vendors control of people. As time goes by, the latter gets worse and
    worse (censorship, remote death switches, tiered Web, pricey software,
    spyware, forced upgrades, etc.). GNU/Linux, among other Free O/Ses, are tools
    for you to ensure you can stay human, not some chicken in a coop. Preferring
    one O/S over another in this case is not like being a fan of one football team
    and not another. That would be Mac vs PC 'wars' (both companies are quite
    vicious). Software can become a commodity, or at least the basic parts of it
    can. We should take this for granted and ask questions like "we don't pay for
    water, light, and air, so why pay for an operating platform and then be
    knocked offline because some WGA server failed?"

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Run a Linux server, then learn how to knit
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    17:20:02 up 23:40, 3 users, load average: 0.85, 0.84, 0.60
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  4. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    * Roy Schestowitz fired off this tart reply:

    > "OS wars" is probably the wrong term to use. The OSes are tools. There is a
    > broader picture. There is a network and a system that is controlled by and
    > exists to serve the users. There are also networks on system that are there to
    > give Big Vendors control of people. As time goes by, the latter gets worse and
    > worse (censorship, remote death switches, tiered Web, pricey software,
    > spyware, forced upgrades, etc.).


    I believe you have it pegged here, Roy.

    > GNU/Linux, among other Free O/Ses, are tools
    > for you to ensure you can stay human, not some chicken in a coop.


    That's why they call if "software libre".

    > Preferring
    > one O/S over another in this case is not like being a fan of one football team
    > and not another. That would be Mac vs PC 'wars' (both companies are quite
    > vicious). Software can become a commodity, or at least the basic parts of it
    > can. We should take this for granted and ask questions like "we don't pay for
    > water, light, and air, so why pay for an operating platform and then be
    > knocked offline because some WGA server failed?"


    Right now, especially for consumers, "All your computer are belong to
    us."

    --
    Tux rox!

  5. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    On Dec 5, 6:15 am, BearItAll wrote:
    > Just popped in to say a fond farewell. I am moving on to another company and
    > a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more, but
    > actually I have been losing interest anyway, my heart just isn't in this
    > anymore.
    >


    His Royal Highness Mark Kent wanted me to say goodbye for him because
    he just couldn't bare to respond to an off topic, anti-charter, troll
    post such as this. William Poaster sends word to remember to killfile.
    Roy Schestowitz will now give a 21 Microsoft [News] post salute.

  6. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    cc wrote:

    > On Dec 5, 6:15 am, BearItAll wrote:
    >> Just popped in to say a fond farewell. I am moving on to another company
    >> and a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more,
    >> but actually I have been losing interest anyway, my heart just isn't in
    >> this anymore.
    >>

    >
    > His Royal Highness Mark Kent wanted me to say goodbye for him because
    > he just couldn't bare to respond to an off topic, anti-charter, troll
    > post such as this. William Poaster sends word to remember to killfile.
    > Roy Schestowitz will now give a 21 Microsoft [News] post salute.


    The two seem to be enjoying themselves in the 'faq' thread, they are
    trolling to each other, by their own measure not mine.


  7. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:26:11 +0000, BearItAll
    wrote:

    >cc wrote:
    >
    >> On Dec 5, 6:15 am, BearItAll wrote:
    >>> Just popped in to say a fond farewell. I am moving on to another company
    >>> and a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more,
    >>> but actually I have been losing interest anyway, my heart just isn't in
    >>> this anymore.
    >>>

    >>
    >> His Royal Highness Mark Kent wanted me to say goodbye for him because
    >> he just couldn't bare to respond to an off topic, anti-charter, troll
    >> post such as this. William Poaster sends word to remember to killfile.
    >> Roy Schestowitz will now give a 21 Microsoft [News] post salute.

    >
    >The two seem to be enjoying themselves in the 'faq' thread, they are
    >trolling to each other, by their own measure not mine.



    They are the two biggest gasbags in the group.
    So many words.........so little content....

  8. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:48:48 +0000, Roy Schestowitz
    wrote:


    >Choice can be taken away if competitors suffocate.


    So why all the objection to OLPC clones?

  9. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    flatfish wrote:
    > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:48:48 +0000, Roy Schestowitz
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Choice can be taken away if competitors suffocate.

    >
    > So why all the objection to OLPC clones?


    Thats how COLA works. Bunch of liars and hypocrites makes up the cola
    gang!

  10. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    flatfish wrote:
    > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:48:48 +0000, Roy Schestowitz
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Choice can be taken away if competitors suffocate.

    >
    > So why all the objection to OLPC clones?


    Thats how COLA works. Bunch of liars and hypocrites makes up the cola
    gang!

  11. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    On Dec 5, 5:15 am, BearItAll wrote:
    > Just popped in to say a fond farewell.


    Whatever. Go **** yourself, jerk!

    > I am moving on to another company


    In other words, your momma is moving and you are switching basements.
    Yeah, got it. Now get lost.

    > and
    > a new life so am very unlikely to be able to get on here any more


    You are a nymshifting troll like HPT and Nessuno. You will be back
    with a different nym.



  12. Re: Goodbuy and thanks for all the fish

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ BearItAll on Thursday 06 December 2007 14:11 : \____
    >



    >
    >> That is one of the main reasons that I like Novell and still hold them in my
    >> mind as the leaders in their field. Simply because they are not afraid to
    >> take a chance, they are not afraid to try something new, risk advances us
    >> far more quickly than 'comfort zone' development ever will. But who is
    >> depicted as Linux's greatest enemy after MS? Well it's Novell, and all
    >> because they signed an agreement that the activists do not like. I don't
    >> give a diddly squat what bits of paper Novell sign, if Novell are putting
    >> out good products and advancing Linux with new directions and take-a-chance
    >> development then they can stand on the 1st place box on my podium.

    >
    > I know that you're fond of SLES and SLED and I know you haven't anything
    > against Novell. The story to be told is very long, but Novell is helping
    > Microsoft deform Linux into a 'cheap Windows' that is actually not so cheap in
    > terms of cost, because of software patents. The whole concept of "Linux will
    > win by its own merits" goes down the toilet. Mono, Moonlight, OOXML... all
    > second-class citizen on a desktop/server that is _no longer free_ (Microsoft
    > collects royalty). Is /this/ your idea of the path to Linux success? Can you
    > foresee Linux laughing down at Microsoft with a stack that
    > contains .NET/Silverlight/OOXML?


    The GPL has been successful precisely because it disconnects the success
    of foss from that of individual companies. Clearly this is not all that
    well understood everywhere. Novell's influence is not positive, rather,
    its trying desperately to survive on handouts from Microsoft. It's
    accounts, when published, might well be the last accounts Novell ever
    publish. I can see that VCs might be coming along to take it all apart.

    >
    >> So there we have it, I love Linux and as I have said it is an amazing
    >> product, server and client,


    Well, it's not a product, though. It's software...

    >> but as I have also said I do not believe that
    >> the current direction of the vast majority of currently popular Linux will
    >> advance Linux, instead I believe it will be it's downfall. Who would have
    >> thought it, it should be that the more users you have the more chance of
    >> success you have, but it isn't like that at all, instead we have a great
    >> product that is carrying the weight of ten elephants so that it can't move
    >> or turn or do anything usefull any more, too much is holding it back and
    >> what is holding it back isn't Linux, it is it's users.

    >


    The success of Linux and other GPLed code has been built, to a great
    extent, on the willingness of its users to use it, and to come back to
    developers and to report their problems. Further, then, that the
    developers respond to those reports, and make fixes.

    The rate of progress which Linux distributions are showing continues to
    rise, and whilst the current favourite distribution would appear to be
    Ubuntu from a desktop user perspective, the most important growth is in
    devices such as the N770/800/810, Chumby, GP2X, Asus Eee, and other
    similar machines.

    The "battle for the desktop" can never be won, because the desktop is
    being replaced by disruptive technologies, technologies which have been
    enabled by Linux. It's perhaps ironic to note that the reasons why linux
    is such an excellent choice for an XO OLPC or an N810 or an Asus Eee is
    because it's been tailored so effectively to perform all the desktop
    capabilities anyone would need. It has spreadsheets, wordprocessors,
    drawing and presentation packages, email clients, browsers, video and
    audio players, games, a highly modular design enabling front-ends to
    be tailored to suit devices, and has been designed to be multi-user and
    networkable from the very begining. Further, since it has an excellent
    security model, there's no need for virusguards to slice up processor
    time, and no need for defragging, and there's no likelyhood of dll-hell
    bringing the machine to its knees.

    Of course, people will still buy Microsoft-based computers, just like
    people continued to buy British Leyland cars long after the vast
    majority had been shown to be greatly inferior to German and Japanese
    models. But, plenty of people will take the new devices, just like
    plenty of people bought German and Japanese cars. In the end, it'll no
    longer be a crime to say "Linux is better" just like it was no longer a
    crime to say that "Japanese cars are better" in the end.

    I still find it surprising to see how many people do not recognise the
    end of the desktop, the growth of the ultra-mobile devices, and the
    dominance which Linux will have in that environment.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

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