Vista: now run by one in five users - Linux

This is a discussion on Vista: now run by one in five users - Linux ; flatfish writes: > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker > wrote: > > >> http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte...nterprise.html >> >>The most optimistic figures show a Vista market penetration of less than 10% >>after one year (yet still half the PC ...

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Thread: Vista: now run by one in five users

  1. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    flatfish writes:

    > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte...nterprise.html
    >>
    >>The most optimistic figures show a Vista market penetration of less than 10%
    >>after one year (yet still half the PC replacement rate, so a lot of this is
    >>still channel stuffing) -- a

    > So?
    >
    > Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >
    > Less than 1 percent...
    >
    > When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    > single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.


    Wrong.

    LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    required documentation.

    And the "advocacy" can kiss my butt. I do more for advocacy in one day
    than the "advocates" here do in a year. *AND* I never installed two
    machines in my local library.

  2. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:29:47 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > "Vista is touching more people than the install percentage numbers suggest,"
    > said Chris Swenson, NPD's director of Software Industry Analysis. By
    > factoring in what he called the "experience index," Vista's footprint is
    > larger. "As of October, approximately one in five of all U.S. respondents
    > have access to at least one computer with Vista installed, either at home or
    > work," he added. The percentage could be higher still when factoring
    > schools, Internet cafes, libraries and other locations outside the home or
    > office."
    >
    > http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte...nterprise.html
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Hey DooFuS - that isn't what it says! Don't you even bother to read your
    material when you post it, or can't you read!!

    >
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    >
    >
    > (note: just testing a little lying spam ala Roy "The Idiot" Schestowitz.
    > cola nut "advocates" NEVER question his lies, so I expect the same
    > courtesy).


    I don't read ****zmepantz's posts - kill filed him a long time ago.


  3. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    On 2007-12-04, Tattoo Vampire claimed:
    > flatfish wrote:
    >
    >> Roy is that you?
    >> Have you gone to the 'dark side' ?

    >
    > "Have access" doesn't equal "use", maybe.


    About two weeks ago, NPD surveyed 586 consumers about their PC
    usage. Based on the survey, the U.S. consumer Vista install base is
    11.4 percent. The business install base—where consumers also use
    Vista at work—is 4.2 percent.

    ......

    Swenson expects holiday sales to hugely increase the consumer Vista
    install base, approaching an estimated 15 percent in the United
    States. "I would estimate total worldwide Vista penetration [to be]
    at 8 to 9 percent today, jumping to the 12 to 13 percent range in
    January after holiday shopping."

    The OP doesn't pass the smell test. The part quoted said "have access
    to" a machine, "either at work or at home". Big deal!

    All it takes is one machine in an office to have 100% of the people
    there having "access" to it.

    A bunch of those people who "have access" at home wish they'd not
    bought it. Even if it's been overwritten with XP, linux, BSD, Win98,
    etc, everybody in the house "has access" to it as long as any restore
    media is available.

    > At work I have "access" to the pitiful handful of Windoze machines in our
    > circulation dept. but I don't use the things.
    >
    > I also have "access" to the printing press, but don't go near it. :-D


    I have "access" to illicit drugs, but don't use them. DooFuS apparently
    does.

    --
    You will cease issuing ultimatums, or else.

  4. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    flatfish wrote:

    > Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?


    On a number of my desktops.

    > Less than 1 percent...


    According to netcraft... other surveys put it higher, though probably not
    more than 10 percent.


    Even 1 percent of billions is still a significant "market".

    BTW, how do you measure computers behind an http proxy?

    > When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    > single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.


    How many people have to install windows on their desktops?

    Windows is already installed on computers when you buy them.

    Windows is effectively free and it is preinstalled.

    Nothing is wrong with linux... its "market" share is determined by an
    effective windows monopoly.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  5. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:

    > flatfish writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    >> wrote:


    >> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >>
    >> Less than 1 percent...
    >>
    >> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.

    >
    > Wrong.
    >
    > LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    > required documentation.


    There's nothing wrong with the documentation of the majority of OSS
    software. Some of it is a bit sparse...

    > And the "advocacy" can kiss my butt. I do more for advocacy in one day
    > than the "advocates" here do in a year. *AND* I never installed two
    > machines in my local library.


    If advocacy is a new word for whining and crying then yes, you do a lot of
    advocacy.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  6. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Gregory Shearman writes:

    > flatfish wrote:
    >
    >> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?

    >
    > On a number of my desktops.
    >
    >> Less than 1 percent...

    >
    > According to netcraft... other surveys put it higher, though probably not
    > more than 10 percent.


    What other surveys? Are you quite *mad*. You *really* think Linux has
    10% of the Desktop market?

    Please. Don't make me laugh. 2-3% tops.

    Or are you only polling yourself? Nothing would surprise me.

    >
    >
    > Even 1 percent of billions is still a significant "market".
    >
    > BTW, how do you measure computers behind an http proxy?


    The same way as each other. How do you poll people who are dead about
    their favorite food? You don't. Take them out of the sample and assume
    those hiding are a typical ratio as deduced from the rest of the
    sample.

    >
    >> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.

    >
    > How many people have to install windows on their desktops?
    >
    > Windows is already installed on computers when you buy them.
    >
    > Windows is effectively free and it is preinstalled.
    >
    > Nothing is wrong with linux... its "market" share is determined by an
    > effective windows monopoly.


    What monopoly? I just bought a PC and installed Linux on it.

    The problem is a simple one. "For Free" does not work in a competitive
    market place. It generates no revenue. No revenue = no advertising. Roy
    and OldTech running around Tesco thrusting scratched copies of "Royz
    Distro" convinces no one. They want to SEE packages on the shelves
    offering SW to help their lives.

    But I forgot. You are on record as saying you are happy for Linux to
    remain difficult to use since you don't want "thick" people using it.

    You are the kind of Linux user who has held it back for too
    long. Fortunately real visionaries like Shuttleworth have appeared who
    know better.

    --
    Love is what you've been through with somebody.
    -- James Thurber

  7. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Gregory Shearman writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> flatfish writes:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    >>> wrote:

    >
    >>> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >>>
    >>> Less than 1 percent...
    >>>
    >>> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >>> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.

    >>
    >> Wrong.
    >>
    >> LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >> required documentation.

    >
    > There's nothing wrong with the documentation of the majority of OSS
    > software. Some of it is a bit sparse...


    Incorrect.

    The majority of OSS SW has spartan/piss poor documentation.

    >
    >> And the "advocacy" can kiss my butt. I do more for advocacy in one day
    >> than the "advocates" here do in a year. *AND* I never installed two
    >> machines in my local library.

    >
    > If advocacy is a new word for whining and crying then yes, you do a lot of
    > advocacy.


    Hint : fighting for a better product is not "crying". I realise you are
    happy to telnet into a nntp server and chat with your RFC by your
    side. Real people are not.

    --
    Bugs, pl. n.:
    Small living things that small living boys throw on small living girls.

  8. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:

    > *cut* *paste* but change the challenged to "Tattoo Vampire".


    A challenge in a newsgroup, how daunting. :-P
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

    Owner and proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

  9. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    flatfish wrote:

    > Surprising.
    > I have yet to see a Vista PC in business.


    We have about 15 older machines in the circulation dept. and business
    office. They run XP and there are no plans to upgrade to Vista. Eventually
    they'll move to Macs like the rest of the newspaper has.
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

    Owner and proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

  10. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:

    > LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    > required documentation.


    Some of the software is indeed crap, but with a user-friendly distro like
    PCLinuxOS or *buntu, most of what's installed right out of the box looks
    good and functions as well as anything in the Windoze world.

    The documentation is largely a fragmented, messy, non-uniform joke. Joe User
    doesn't want to have to browse man pages.
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....Route 666: Highway of the Beast

    Owner and proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

  11. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Tattoo Vampire writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >> required documentation.

    >
    > Some of the software is indeed crap, but with a user-friendly distro like
    > PCLinuxOS or *buntu, most of what's installed right out of the box looks
    > good and functions as well as anything in the Windoze world.
    >
    > The documentation is largely a fragmented, messy, non-uniform joke. Joe User
    > doesn't want to have to browse man pages.


    Glad you agree. Kier will disagree.

    Most of the desktop GUI apps I find to be a POS. The exceptions for me
    are

    IceWeasel (rebranded firefox)
    GIMP
    Amarok (when it works)
    Synaptic
    mplayer
    k3b
    gparted

    Nearly everything else "GUI" I find to be half arsed and
    incomplete. Including OO.

    I do most of my work in Emacs so do not know if the IDEs have
    improved. I know that Eclipse keeps failing to autoupdate, Azureus has
    just plain stopped working, OO is slow and buggy.

    The non gui stuff is generally excellent. I love the way ssh/gpgp all
    work.

    I hate the way that I have to reboot to XP to play modern games.

    --
    Compre un MODEM, navegue en Internet: gane amigos y pierda a su mujer.
    -- Www.frases.com.

  12. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:

    > Tattoo Vampire writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >>> required documentation.

    >>
    >> Some of the software is indeed crap, but with a user-friendly distro like
    >> PCLinuxOS or *buntu, most of what's installed right out of the box looks
    >> good and functions as well as anything in the Windoze world.
    >>
    >> The documentation is largely a fragmented, messy, non-uniform joke. Joe
    >> User doesn't want to have to browse man pages.

    >
    > Glad you agree. Kier will disagree.


    Your typical dishonesty shows up again.
    Kier has not even participated in this thread. Not once, yet you find the
    need to drag him into it with your bull****

    > Most of the desktop GUI apps I find to be a POS.


    Emphasis on *you*
    You find them to be a POS. Most others would disagree

    > The exceptions for me are
    >
    > IceWeasel (rebranded firefox)
    > GIMP
    > Amarok (when it works)
    > Synaptic
    > mplayer
    > k3b
    > gparted


    Small subset of good software

    > Nearly everything else "GUI" I find to be half arsed and
    > incomplete. Including OO.


    You certainly have good reasons for that nonsense, "true linux advocate"
    Hadron Quark.
    You repeat that crap often, yet totally fail to tell us why OO is "half
    arsed and incomplete"

    > I do most of my work in Emacs so do not know if the IDEs have
    > improved. I know that Eclipse keeps failing to autoupdate, Azureus has
    > just plain stopped working, OO is slow and buggy.


    Eclipse just is so widely used, it has to be crap. Naturally.
    All these add-ons for it, from a wide selection of companies even, you
    absolutely must FUD it
    And, BTW, OO is not an IDE. Neither is it slow, those times are long past
    and gone. It also is not in any way, shape or form more "buggy" than MS
    Office is

    > The non gui stuff is generally excellent. I love the way ssh/gpgp all
    > work.


    So the very same programmers who do such "excellent" stuff can't be arsed to
    write good GUI stuff?

    > I hate the way that I have to reboot to XP to play modern games.
    >


    Then don't. Or simply leave your vmware session with linux (running in your
    XP "distro") in the "powered off" state
    --
    Tact, n.:
    The unsaid part of what you're thinking.


  13. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:04:51 +0100, Hadron
    wrote:

    >flatfish writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte...nterprise.html
    >>>
    >>>The most optimistic figures show a Vista market penetration of less than 10%
    >>>after one year (yet still half the PC replacement rate, so a lot of this is
    >>>still channel stuffing) -- a

    >> So?
    >>
    >> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >>
    >> Less than 1 percent...
    >>
    >> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.

    >
    >Wrong.
    >
    >LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >required documentation.
    >
    >And the "advocacy" can kiss my butt. I do more for advocacy in one day
    >than the "advocates" here do in a year. *AND* I never installed two
    >machines in my local library.



    Bad choice of words on my part.
    By product, I don't mean Linux it'self, IOW the software, I mean the
    whole Linux movement.

  14. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:52:26 -0600, Sinister Midget
    wrote:

    >On 2007-12-04, Tattoo Vampire claimed:
    >> flatfish wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy is that you?
    >>> Have you gone to the 'dark side' ?

    >>
    >> "Have access" doesn't equal "use", maybe.

    >
    > About two weeks ago, NPD surveyed 586 consumers about their PC
    > usage. Based on the survey, the U.S. consumer Vista install base is
    > 11.4 percent. The business install base—where consumers also use
    > Vista at work—is 4.2 percent.


    No surprise there.
    Businesses typically take a wait and see approach when a new version
    of anything comes out.
    Look how long it took to wean companies off Win2k?
    Some are still running Win2k because XP does nothing better for them.
    The same thing will happen with Vista.

  15. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    * Peter Khlmann fired off this tart reply:

    > Hadron wrote:


    95% lies and bull****, spiced with the misdirected disdain of the naif,
    and misplaced contempt, as usual.

    >> The non gui stuff is generally excellent. I love the way ssh/gpgp all
    >> work.

    >
    > So the very same programmers who do such "excellent" stuff can't be arsed to
    > write good GUI stuff?


    Don't forget, though, he's an expert in "sampling theory".

    --
    Tux rox!

  16. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Linonut writes:

    > * Peter Köhlmann fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:

    >
    > 95% lies and bull****, spiced with the misdirected disdain of the naif,
    > and misplaced contempt, as usual.
    >
    >>> The non gui stuff is generally excellent. I love the way ssh/gpgp all
    >>> work.

    >>
    >> So the very same programmers who do such "excellent" stuff can't be arsed to
    >> write good GUI stuff?


    Who says they are the same?

    I also listed a load of apps which ARE good.


    >
    > Don't forget, though, he's an expert in "sampling theory".


    What has that to do with it?

    The point is as clear as that chip on your shoulder - a hell of a lot of
    OSS GUI SW is half arsed rubbish with little concistency and rarely any
    documentation. Developer tools and bastions of OSS like Emacs are
    wonderful.

    --
    There's so much to say but your eyes keep interrupting me.

  17. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:

    > Linonut writes:
    >
    >> * Peter Köhlmann fired off this tart reply:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >> 95% lies and bull****, spiced with the misdirected disdain of the naif,
    >> and misplaced contempt, as usual.
    >>
    >>>> The non gui stuff is generally excellent. I love the way ssh/gpgp all
    >>>> work.
    >>>
    >>> So the very same programmers who do such "excellent" stuff can't be
    >>> arsed to write good GUI stuff?

    >
    > Who says they are the same?


    Do you really think that all/most good programmers do CLI, and all the
    VB-converts do GUI? Then you are even dumber than DumbFull****. If that is
    possible at all

    > I also listed a load of apps which ARE good.


    You listed /some/ of those which are good. There are *lots* more

    >>
    >> Don't forget, though, he's an expert in "sampling theory".

    >
    > What has that to do with it?


    Well, it is another area you simply know nothing about
    Like, for example, "kernel hacking". Or CUPS. Or about anything else of
    linux

    > The point is as clear as that chip on your shoulder - a hell of a lot of
    > OSS GUI SW is half arsed rubbish with little concistency and rarely any
    > documentation.


    So you say. Naturally without backiong up that bull**** with any evidence at
    all

    > Developer tools and bastions of OSS like Emacs are wonderful.
    >

    Nobody claimed otherwise.
    And yet those "wonderful Developer tools", used by the "same programmers who
    do such "excellent CLI" stuff" lead to all those "half arsed GUI apps".

    Spot the (many) flaws
    --
    "Against stupidity, the very gods themselves contend in vain."
    Friedrich Schiller


  18. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    On Wednesday 05 Dec 2007 2:50 pm, Peter Köhlmann wrote in
    comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > Hadron wrote:




    >> I hate the way that I have to reboot to XP to play modern games.
    >>

    >
    > Then don't. Or simply leave your vmware session with linux (running in your
    > XP "distro") in the "powered off" state


    Ah, poor Quack. All he wants to do is play games, "Life's a game" etc. What a
    mar00n.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  19. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Hadron wrote:
    > Gregory Shearman writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> flatfish writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >>>>
    >>>> Less than 1 percent...
    >>>>
    >>>> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >>>> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.
    >>> Wrong.
    >>>
    >>> LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >>> required documentation.

    >> There's nothing wrong with the documentation of the majority of OSS
    >> software. Some of it is a bit sparse...

    >
    > Incorrect.
    >
    > The majority of OSS SW has spartan/piss poor documentation.


    Just type "man (program's name)" into the terminal, and you will get
    quite a bit of usually excellent documentation.

    >>> And the "advocacy" can kiss my butt. I do more for advocacy in one day
    >>> than the "advocates" here do in a year. *AND* I never installed two
    >>> machines in my local library.

    >> If advocacy is a new word for whining and crying then yes, you do a lot of
    >> advocacy.

    >
    > Hint : fighting for a better product is not "crying". I realise you are
    > happy to telnet into a nntp server and chat with your RFC by your
    > side. Real people are not.
    >



    --
    "Doomed to waving around penguins with bells attached."

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    Chris Thomas

  20. Re: Vista: now run by one in five users

    Ben Miller-Jacobson writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Gregory Shearman writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> flatfish writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:23:49 +0100, Richard Rasker
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>> Where is desktop Linux after 15 years and considering it is FREE?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Less than 1 percent...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> When something that is free can't manage to even make it into the
    >>>>> single digits, something is seriously wrong with that product.
    >>>> Wrong.
    >>>>
    >>>> LINUX is *excellent*. What is not excellent is the OSS SW and the
    >>>> required documentation.
    >>> There's nothing wrong with the documentation of the majority of OSS
    >>> software. Some of it is a bit sparse...

    >>
    >> Incorrect.
    >>
    >> The majority of OSS SW has spartan/piss poor documentation.

    >
    > Just type "man (program's name)" into the terminal, and you will get
    > quite a bit of usually excellent documentation.


    I use man pages all the time for command line apps. Actually I prefer info.

    First thing I tried was gparted

    ,----
    | gparted(1) gparted(1)
    |
    | NAME
    | gparted - GNOME frontend for parted
    |
    | SYNOPSIS
    | gparted
    |
    | DESCRIPTION
    | gparted uses libparted to detect and manipulate devices and partition
    | tables while several (optional) filesystemtools provide support for
    | filesystems not included in libparted.
    |
    | SEE ALSO
    | parted(8)
    |
    | AUTHOR
    | David Moreno Garza wrote this manpage for inclusion
    | in the Debian Project, but may be used for others.
    |
    `----

    Wonderful.

    A man 8 parted revealed .... nothing.




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