How easy is this Windows thing, really? - Linux

This is a discussion on How easy is this Windows thing, really? - Linux ; A couple of things over the weekend. [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel. This one giant partition had everything, of course. Had some diskspace ...

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  1. How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    A couple of things over the weekend.

    [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one
    giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel.
    This one giant partition had everything, of course.
    Had some diskspace on another machine, and wanted to
    repartition the laptop.

    1. Boot LiveDisc -- in this case, Gentoo. Detected all
    relevant networking perfectly except for DHCP, which it
    used instead of a static IP address (yes, my one router
    has DHCP capability; I don't use it but I could if I
    really wanted to). This was more or less expected;
    a reconfigure and an edit of /etc/resolv.conf fixed
    that issue.

    2. Mount giant partition read-only, and do some work
    using 'du -sk'. That way one knows how big to make
    the partitions.

    3. Tar it up and ship it over using ssh.

    # cd /mnt/gentoo
    # tar czf - . | \
    ssh user@remotehost "cd /somewhere/there; cat > out.tgz"

    4. Delete existing system partition (*NOT* the /boot partition)
    and repartition using fdisk and mkfs.ext3 (or mkfs.reiserfs or
    mkfs.jfs).

    5. Mount new root partition, writable.

    6. Make necessary directories on the new root filesystem
    (in my case, /var, /usr, and /home), and mount the
    other filesystems.

    7. Restore.

    8. Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to move to the new root (I
    was using a 4-partition system; the new partition
    took hda4 to be extended so the root was /dev/hda5).

    9. Edit /mnt/gentoo/etc/fstab to reflect the new reality.

    10. Unmount everything, shutdown, eject LiveDisc, and reboot.

    Presto! It all works.

    Granted, there's some quirks in there one has to know
    about, and I've left out verification steps for brevity
    (there's a 'd' option for tar that's convenient), but from
    my standpoint, it's quite straightforward.

    Of course, I'm an old Unix-head anyway.

    [2] Windows XP and the Ersatz Domain Controller.

    Granted, part of this is my fault for not having the
    requisite software somewhere -- I probably need Microsoft
    Windows XP Server Something Edition to handle the domain
    control, but all I have is Samba, which apparently has
    some of the capabilities. And of course this is an
    entirely different problem from repartitioning the OS.

    I did get it to work. Once. Now, it no longer works.
    I can't say precisely how it broke, or why it's broken
    (it does let me log into the domain, but it won't restore
    or attempt to restore my profile). With my luck I'll have
    to tweak another registry entry and/or delete my local
    profile, which is now all confused. (I did get my profile
    saved at one point on the remote Samba drive but I deleted
    it in a fit of pique; XP's not tried to save it since).

    Clear as the proverbial mud. At least I got it to
    pick the right IP address. I think. It doesn't respond
    to pings for some reason -- probably a defensive measure.

    I'll have to find the pages I used to put in the hacks that
    allowed login to work (Google using 'Linux domain XP' or
    some such); these were straightforward enough, admittedly,
    but one does have to wonder.

    So...which one is more straightforward? The one that uses
    standard stuff, or the one that uses de-facto standard
    stuff?

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux sucks efficiently, but Windows just blows around
    a lot of hot air and vapor.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  2. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:27:56 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > A couple of things over the weekend.
    >
    > [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one
    > giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel.
    > This one giant partition had everything, of course.
    > Had some diskspace on another machine, and wanted to
    > repartition the laptop.
    >
    > 1. Boot LiveDisc -- in this case, Gentoo. Detected all
    > relevant networking perfectly except for DHCP, which it
    > used instead of a static IP address (yes, my one router
    > has DHCP capability; I don't use it but I could if I
    > really wanted to). This was more or less expected;
    > a reconfigure and an edit of /etc/resolv.conf fixed
    > that issue.
    >
    > 2. Mount giant partition read-only, and do some work
    > using 'du -sk'. That way one knows how big to make
    > the partitions.
    >
    > 3. Tar it up and ship it over using ssh.
    >
    > # cd /mnt/gentoo
    > # tar czf - . | \
    > ssh user@remotehost "cd /somewhere/there; cat > out.tgz"
    >
    > 4. Delete existing system partition (*NOT* the /boot partition)
    > and repartition using fdisk and mkfs.ext3 (or mkfs.reiserfs or
    > mkfs.jfs).
    >
    > 5. Mount new root partition, writable.
    >
    > 6. Make necessary directories on the new root filesystem
    > (in my case, /var, /usr, and /home), and mount the
    > other filesystems.
    >
    > 7. Restore.
    >
    > 8. Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to move to the new root (I
    > was using a 4-partition system; the new partition
    > took hda4 to be extended so the root was /dev/hda5).
    >
    > 9. Edit /mnt/gentoo/etc/fstab to reflect the new reality.
    >
    > 10. Unmount everything, shutdown, eject LiveDisc, and reboot.
    >
    > Presto! It all works.


    Much simpler to just boot the Live CD and use gparted to resize.

    >
    > Granted, there's some quirks in there one has to know
    > about, and I've left out verification steps for brevity
    > (there's a 'd' option for tar that's convenient), but from
    > my standpoint, it's quite straightforward.
    >
    > Of course, I'm an old Unix-head anyway.
    >
    > [2] Windows XP and the Ersatz Domain Controller.
    >
    > Granted, part of this is my fault for not having the
    > requisite software somewhere -- I probably need Microsoft
    > Windows XP Server Something Edition to handle the domain
    > control, but all I have is Samba, which apparently has
    > some of the capabilities. And of course this is an
    > entirely different problem from repartitioning the OS.
    >
    > I did get it to work. Once. Now, it no longer works.
    > I can't say precisely how it broke, or why it's broken
    > (it does let me log into the domain, but it won't restore
    > or attempt to restore my profile). With my luck I'll have
    > to tweak another registry entry and/or delete my local
    > profile, which is now all confused. (I did get my profile
    > saved at one point on the remote Samba drive but I deleted
    > it in a fit of pique; XP's not tried to save it since).
    >
    > Clear as the proverbial mud. At least I got it to
    > pick the right IP address. I think. It doesn't respond
    > to pings for some reason -- probably a defensive measure.
    >
    > I'll have to find the pages I used to put in the hacks that
    > allowed login to work (Google using 'Linux domain XP' or
    > some such); these were straightforward enough, admittedly,
    > but one does have to wonder.
    >
    > So...which one is more straightforward? The one that uses
    > standard stuff, or the one that uses de-facto standard
    > stuff?
    >
    > --
    > #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    > Linux sucks efficiently, but Windows just blows around
    > a lot of hot air and vapor.



  3. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    news:s0ge25-j1j.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >A couple of things over the weekend.
    >
    > [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one
    > giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel.
    > This one giant partition had everything, of course.
    > Had some diskspace on another machine, and wanted to
    > repartition the laptop.
    >
    > 1. Boot LiveDisc -- in this case, Gentoo. Detected all
    > relevant networking perfectly except for DHCP, which it
    > used instead of a static IP address (yes, my one router
    > has DHCP capability; I don't use it but I could if I
    > really wanted to). This was more or less expected;
    > a reconfigure and an edit of /etc/resolv.conf fixed
    > that issue.
    >
    > 2. Mount giant partition read-only, and do some work
    > using 'du -sk'. That way one knows how big to make
    > the partitions.
    >
    > 3. Tar it up and ship it over using ssh.
    >
    > # cd /mnt/gentoo
    > # tar czf - . | \
    > ssh user@remotehost "cd /somewhere/there; cat > out.tgz"
    >
    > 4. Delete existing system partition (*NOT* the /boot partition)
    > and repartition using fdisk and mkfs.ext3 (or mkfs.reiserfs or
    > mkfs.jfs).
    >
    > 5. Mount new root partition, writable.
    >
    > 6. Make necessary directories on the new root filesystem
    > (in my case, /var, /usr, and /home), and mount the
    > other filesystems.
    >
    > 7. Restore.
    >
    > 8. Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to move to the new root (I
    > was using a 4-partition system; the new partition
    > took hda4 to be extended so the root was /dev/hda5).
    >
    > 9. Edit /mnt/gentoo/etc/fstab to reflect the new reality.
    >
    > 10. Unmount everything, shutdown, eject LiveDisc, and reboot.
    >
    > Presto! It all works.
    >
    > Granted, there's some quirks in there one has to know
    > about, and I've left out verification steps for brevity
    > (there's a 'd' option for tar that's convenient), but from
    > my standpoint, it's quite straightforward.


    Good lord. Is this post supposed to be a joke?

    Okay, going through the list of things that are definitely NOT
    straightforward:

    editing resolv.conf --- seriously, you think editing config files manually
    is straightforward?
    mounting read-only --- how is a user supposed to know how to do this?
    "du -sk" --- HUH?
    "tar czf - . | \" --- WUH?
    mounting writeable --- again, how?
    necessary dirs --- you seriously expect people to know what these are?
    restore --- restore what?
    edit menu.lst --- totally straightforward, cuz everyone knows what the hell
    "/dev/hda5" is... not.
    edit fstab --- the reality is that any regular user wouldn't have a clue
    what to do

    Seriously, I don't even have words. How deluded does one have to be to think
    it's reasonable for average people to know how to do this stuff?



  4. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    Mercury wrote:

    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    > message news:s0ge25-j1j.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>A couple of things over the weekend.
    >>
    >> [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one
    >> giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel.
    >> This one giant partition had everything, of course.
    >> Had some diskspace on another machine, and wanted to
    >> repartition the laptop.
    >>
    >> 1. Boot LiveDisc -- in this case, Gentoo. Detected all
    >> relevant networking perfectly except for DHCP, which it
    >> used instead of a static IP address (yes, my one router
    >> has DHCP capability; I don't use it but I could if I
    >> really wanted to). This was more or less expected;
    >> a reconfigure and an edit of /etc/resolv.conf fixed
    >> that issue.
    >>
    >> 2. Mount giant partition read-only, and do some work
    >> using 'du -sk'. That way one knows how big to make
    >> the partitions.
    >>
    >> 3. Tar it up and ship it over using ssh.
    >>
    >> # cd /mnt/gentoo
    >> # tar czf - . | \
    >> ssh user@remotehost "cd /somewhere/there; cat > out.tgz"
    >>
    >> 4. Delete existing system partition (*NOT* the /boot partition)
    >> and repartition using fdisk and mkfs.ext3 (or mkfs.reiserfs or
    >> mkfs.jfs).
    >>
    >> 5. Mount new root partition, writable.
    >>
    >> 6. Make necessary directories on the new root filesystem
    >> (in my case, /var, /usr, and /home), and mount the
    >> other filesystems.
    >>
    >> 7. Restore.
    >>
    >> 8. Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to move to the new root (I
    >> was using a 4-partition system; the new partition
    >> took hda4 to be extended so the root was /dev/hda5).
    >>
    >> 9. Edit /mnt/gentoo/etc/fstab to reflect the new reality.
    >>
    >> 10. Unmount everything, shutdown, eject LiveDisc, and reboot.
    >>
    >> Presto! It all works.
    >>
    >> Granted, there's some quirks in there one has to know
    >> about, and I've left out verification steps for brevity
    >> (there's a 'd' option for tar that's convenient), but from
    >> my standpoint, it's quite straightforward.

    >
    > Good lord. Is this post supposed to be a joke?
    >
    > Okay, going through the list of things that are definitely NOT
    > straightforward:
    >
    > editing resolv.conf --- seriously, you think editing config files manually
    > is straightforward?
    > mounting read-only --- how is a user supposed to know how to do this?
    > "du -sk" --- HUH?
    > "tar czf - . | \" --- WUH?
    > mounting writeable --- again, how?
    > necessary dirs --- you seriously expect people to know what these are?
    > restore --- restore what?
    > edit menu.lst --- totally straightforward, cuz everyone knows what the
    > hell "/dev/hda5" is... not.
    > edit fstab --- the reality is that any regular user wouldn't have a clue
    > what to do
    >
    > Seriously, I don't even have words. How deluded does one have to be to
    > think it's reasonable for average people to know how to do this stuff?


    When I started mucking around with computers, average people found
    themselves knowing all the commands to navigate a system running MS-DOS.
    There was no GUI.

    If you don't want to worry about these commands then don't. No one is
    forcing you.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  5. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    * Mercury fired off this tart reply:

    > editing resolv.conf --- seriously, you think editing config files manually
    > is straightforward?
    > mounting read-only --- how is a user supposed to know how to do this?
    > "du -sk" --- HUH?
    > "tar czf - . | \" --- WUH?
    > mounting writeable --- again, how?
    > necessary dirs --- you seriously expect people to know what these are?
    > restore --- restore what?
    > edit menu.lst --- totally straightforward, cuz everyone knows what the hell
    > "/dev/hda5" is... not.
    > edit fstab --- the reality is that any regular user wouldn't have a clue
    > what to do
    >
    > Seriously, I don't even have words. How deluded does one have to be to think
    > it's reasonable for average people to know how to do this stuff?


    Only techies edit those things.

    I remember back in 2000, Red Hat 5.2, using the GUI called "linuxcong".

    So what are you on about?

    However, it is true that, once you get proficient, you may find it
    easier to fire up the old text editor and edit the file yourself.

    I think you've been imbibing too much mercury, Mercury.

    --
    Mad as a hatter!

  6. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 1:22 pm, Linonut wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > * Mercury fired off this tart reply:
    >
    >> editing resolv.conf --- seriously, you think editing config files manually
    >> is straightforward?
    >> mounting read-only --- how is a user supposed to know how to do this?
    >> "du -sk" --- HUH?
    >> "tar czf - . | \" --- WUH?
    >> mounting writeable --- again, how?
    >> necessary dirs --- you seriously expect people to know what these are?
    >> restore --- restore what?
    >> edit menu.lst --- totally straightforward, cuz everyone knows what the hell
    >> "/dev/hda5" is... not.
    >> edit fstab --- the reality is that any regular user wouldn't have a clue
    >> what to do
    >>
    >> Seriously, I don't even have words. How deluded does one have to be to think
    >> it's reasonable for average people to know how to do this stuff?

    >
    > Only techies edit those things.
    >
    > I remember back in 2000, Red Hat 5.2, using the GUI called "linuxcong".


    Heh. I used RH briefly back in '97, & I'd forgotten about that! Also used
    the 'xconfig' GUI tool to compile a kernel, & 'menuconfig' too....

    > So what are you on about?
    >
    > However, it is true that, once you get proficient, you may find it
    > easier to fire up the old text editor and edit the file yourself.
    >
    > I think you've been imbibing too much mercury, Mercury.
    >


    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  7. Re: How easy is this Windows thing, really?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, ray

    wrote
    on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:19:41 -0700
    :
    > On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:27:56 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> A couple of things over the weekend.
    >>
    >> [1] I have a laptop which I'd initially set up to have one
    >> giant partition, plus a /boot partition for the kernel.
    >> This one giant partition had everything, of course.
    >> Had some diskspace on another machine, and wanted to
    >> repartition the laptop.
    >>
    >> 1. Boot LiveDisc -- in this case, Gentoo. Detected all
    >> relevant networking perfectly except for DHCP, which it


    [snip repartitioning problem for brevity]

    >>
    >> Presto! It all works.

    >
    > Much simpler to just boot the Live CD and use gparted to resize.


    It might be, at that; I'm not familiar enough with GParted
    to say at this point. Wikipedia suggests it can easily
    move ext2 and ext3 partitions, which would make it perfect
    for casual use. Surprisingly, there are a fair number of
    holes (for example, one can't shrink a JFS partition); I
    suspect that's mostly because individuals haven't stepped
    up to the plate and filled them yet (or, in the case of
    reading swap, they're not really needed).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GParted

    Nor is it clear that GParted would have been able to
    move entire subtrees (in my case, /usr, /var, and /home)
    onto other partitions, while simultaneously shrinking the
    existing one.

    That's really what I needed.

    [rest snipped]

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. Because it's there and it works.
    Windows. It's there, but does it work?

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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