faq? - Linux

This is a discussion on faq? - Linux ; where do i find this group faq if avail please? -- Aspac Hareac asphare3@abbacomm.net...

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  1. faq?

    where do i find this group faq if avail please?

    --
    Aspac Hareac
    asphare3@abbacomm.net



  2. Re: faq?

    Aspac Hareac wrote:
    > where do i find this group faq if avail please?
    >


    Here it is, obtained from Mark Kent's sig:

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/


    Trolls will sometimes post a fake FAQ full of lies and M$ FUD, basically
    saying that Linux sucks. Ignore it.

    --

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    Gilbert Goiter

  3. Re: faq?

    On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    > Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >> where do i find this group faq if avail please?
    >>

    >
    > Here it is, obtained from Mark Kent's sig:
    >
    > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
    >
    >
    > Trolls will sometimes post a fake FAQ full of lies and M$ FUD, basically
    > saying that Linux sucks. Ignore it.


    And other trolls will post the one from Mark Kent's sig, which is just
    as fake. The only difference is that one group of trolls sent their FAQ
    through the rubber-stamp process to get it archived at faqs.org.

  4. Re: faq?

    Tim Smith wrote:
    > On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >> Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >>> where do i find this group faq if avail please?
    >>>

    >> Here it is, obtained from Mark Kent's sig:
    >>
    >> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
    >>
    >>
    >> Trolls will sometimes post a fake FAQ full of lies and M$ FUD, basically
    >> saying that Linux sucks. Ignore it.

    >
    > And other trolls will post the one from Mark Kent's sig, which is just
    > as fake. The only difference is that one group of trolls sent their FAQ
    > through the rubber-stamp process to get it archived at faqs.org.


    I also googled comp os linux advocacy faq and got that one.

    If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    link to the real one. I am fairly new here and had thought the one Mark
    Kent's sig links to was real.

    --

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    toe.mein

  5. Re: faq?

    Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:

    > Tim Smith wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>> Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >>>> where do i find this group faq if avail please?
    >>>>
    >>> Here it is, obtained from Mark Kent's sig:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Trolls will sometimes post a fake FAQ full of lies and M$ FUD, basically
    >>> saying that Linux sucks. Ignore it.

    >>
    >> And other trolls will post the one from Mark Kent's sig, which is just
    >> as fake. The only difference is that one group of trolls sent their FAQ
    >> through the rubber-stamp process to get it archived at faqs.org.

    >
    > I also googled comp os linux advocacy faq and got that one.
    >
    > If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    > link to the real one. I am fairly new here and had thought the one Mark
    > Kent's sig links to was real.
    >


    Although I think that Mark Kent's sigs were not meant to be malicious, that
    is what they have turned into, particularly when he added the Troll list.

    He publishes what he calls a troll list, some are trolls, but not all on his
    list are trolls, some simply disagreed with him in a thread, some he names
    as troll feeders. But there is no place on the site to dispute his personal
    opinion, he can put your news group handle on there with any comments he
    fancies, and you can do nothing about it.

    How dare he say who we can and can not respond to. Not all on his list would
    be classed as trolls in my view, but also in the view of others who have
    been in these news groups for many years. A comment against Linux or for
    Windows is not trolling in my book.

    On his list of troll feeders you have posters who's only crime is a
    willingness to argue a point and often short tempered. Who are willing to
    take on the Windows advocates who post here, because they have confidence
    in their own ability to argue Linux's case.

    Arguments are part and parcel with news groups, broad shoulders and thick
    skulls help. But also some good points come out in the arguments, points of
    view that might not have found another opening.

    For those reasons I wouldn't point anyone at Mark Kent's sig to get a news
    group faq.


  6. Re: faq?

    On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    > If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    > link to the real one. I am fairly new here and had thought the one Mark
    > Kent's sig links to was real.


    There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.

    There is no body, outside the group itself, that will review a FAQ and
    certify that it actually represents any kind of consensus of the group,
    or is at all an accurate representation of anything. All there is is
    faqs.org, which is basically a listing service. They don't check the
    content or the procedure behind the production of the FAQs they list.

    There are actually Q's that are FA'ed here, but no one has shown any
    interest in putting together a FAQ that could actually become *the* FAQ
    for the group.

  7. Re: faq?

    On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:33:20 -0000, Tim Smith
    wrote:

    >On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >> If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    >> link to the real one. I am fairly new here and had thought the one Mark
    >> Kent's sig links to was real.

    >
    >There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    >start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    >the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    >accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >
    >That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    >at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    >None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.


    Of there isn't an official FAQ.

    How can one have a FAQ for a group that calls itself
    "comp.os.linux.advocacy" when their is so little Linux advocacy and so
    much Microsoft bashing here?

    This group vilolates it own "charter" by default.

  8. Re: faq?

    flatfish wrote:
    > On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:33:20 -0000, Tim Smith
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>> If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    >>> link to the real one. I am fairly new here and had thought the one Mark
    >>> Kent's sig links to was real.

    >> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    >> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    >> the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    >> accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>
    >> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    >> at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    >> None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.


    Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because of
    the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more extreme
    advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_ work if
    certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for example) were
    not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as restricting
    freedom of speech.

    > Of there isn't an official FAQ.
    >
    > How can one have a FAQ for a group that calls itself
    > "comp.os.linux.advocacy" when their is so little Linux advocacy and so
    > much Microsoft bashing here?
    >
    > This group vilolates it own "charter" by default.

    Flatfish, you have proven yourself to be a worthless, nymshifting troll.
    As such, I will ignore you in this case. Tim Smith, on the other hand, I
    will listen to.

    --
    "Doomed to waving around penguins with bells attached."

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    Trina Swallows

  9. Re: faq?

    On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    >>> the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    >>> accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>
    >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    >>> at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    >>> None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.

    >
    > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because of
    > the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more extreme
    > advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_ work if
    > certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for example) were
    > not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as restricting
    > freedom of speech.


    There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    answer that could go in a FAQ.

    It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no one
    objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the newbie
    picks up pretty quickly who is who.

  10. Re: faq?

    On Dec 3, 2:21 am, Ben Miller-Jacobson
    wrote:
    > Tim Smith wrote:
    > > On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    > >> Aspac Hareac wrote:
    > >>> where do i find this group faq if avail please?


    Kiss Mark Kent's ass the same way his wife kissed mine. You may also
    get this groups FAQ if you pay Mark Kent when he is pimping for his
    family and join his business.

    > I also googled comp os linux advocacy faq and got that one.


    No you didn't. You are a troll.

    > If you have reason to believe that it is not the real faq, please post a
    > link to the real one.


    Told you, go kiss Mark Kent's ass...but remember to kiss it exactly
    the way his wife kissed mine. Mark Kent will guide you. He was
    watching when his wife and I made love. He isn't there often, but
    indeed, he knows how we do it. You have started off well. You started
    off at the bottom of Mark Kent's [post].

    > I am fairly new here


    No, you are a nymshifting troll.

    > and had thought the one Mark
    > Kent's sig links to was real.


    Yeah right! Come back as Rafael and start from the bottom of Mark
    Kent.

    >
    > --
    >
    > Random Flatfish Nym:
    > toe.mein


    Cool, you are a troll.

  11. Re: faq?

    On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    > On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    > >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    > >>> the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    > >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    > >>> accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    >
    > >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    > >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    > >>> at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    > >>> None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.

    >
    > > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because of
    > > the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more extreme
    > > advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_ work if
    > > certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for example) were
    > > not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as restricting
    > > freedom of speech.

    >
    > There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    > distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    > the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    > answer that could go in a FAQ.


    If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    currently being used by the most people.

    If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.


    > It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no one
    > objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    > all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    > here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the newbie
    > picks up pretty quickly who is who.


    Newbie's Guide To COLA

    1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    everyone is.
    2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    called a troll by someone.
    3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    Poaster, because that's all he knows.


    COLA Charter

    Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    shifting.



    There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    welcome.

  12. Re: faq?

    cc wrote:

    > COLA Charter
    >
    > Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    > flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    > shifting.


    Nice. Can I quote it 20x a day, just like High Plains Thumper?





  13. Re: faq?

    cc wrote:

    > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >> >>> *anyone* can
    >> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done
    >> >>> in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    >>
    >> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >> >>> approval.

    >>
    >> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >> > restricting freedom of speech.

    >>
    >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > currently being used by the most people.
    >
    > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >
    >
    >> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no one
    >> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the newbie
    >> picks up pretty quickly who is who.

    >
    > Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >
    > 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    > everyone is.
    > 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    > called a troll by someone.
    > 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    > 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    > Poaster, because that's all he knows.
    >
    >
    > COLA Charter
    >
    > Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    > flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    > shifting.
    >
    >
    >
    > There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    > welcome.


    Seems pretty concise to me.


  14. Re: faq?

    On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:57:43 -0800, cc wrote:

    > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    >> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    >> >>> the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    >> >>> accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    >>
    >> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    >> >>> at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    >> >>> None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.

    >>
    >> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because of
    >> > the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more extreme
    >> > advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_ work if
    >> > certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for example) were
    >> > not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as restricting
    >> > freedom of speech.

    >>
    >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > currently being used by the most people.


    Actually, that's not the case. The stats refer only to the number of hits
    to the distrowatch pages that refer to each distro, and show only the
    amount of interest shown in a given period. It doesn't indicate usage or
    actually popularity (although it can be used as a rough guide to that,
    it's not intended as such). Ther's a good deal of debate in teh
    distrowatch forum as to whether the stats should be removed altogether or
    taken off the front page, because it tends to cause controversy.

    >
    > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.



    Newbies don't necessarily know exactly what they're looking for in a
    distro, since they've only a vague idea what a 'distro' consists of. Most
    of 'em are coming from Windows, remember.



    I think what's needed is a simple explanation of what Linux is, what free
    software is and which sites to go to to obtain further useful information
    (distrowatch would be top of that list for me) about where to get it.

    --
    Kier

  15. Re: faq?

    On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > cc wrote:
    >
    >> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:


    >>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done
    >>> >>> in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    >>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>
    >>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >>> >>> approval.
    >>>
    >>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >>> > restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>
    >>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >>
    >> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >> currently being used by the most people.
    >>
    >> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>
    >>
    >>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no one
    >>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the newbie
    >>> picks up pretty quickly who is who.

    >>
    >> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>
    >> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >> everyone is.
    >> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >> called a troll by someone.
    >> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >> Poaster, because that's all he knows.


    HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile because
    I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to their tune.

    Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one, see:-
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/

    >> COLA Charter
    >>
    >> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >> shifting.
    >>
    >> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >> welcome.

    >
    > Seems pretty concise to me.


    It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  16. Re: faq?

    On Dec 4, 4:12 am, Kier wrote:
    > On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:57:43 -0800, cc wrote:
    > > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    > >> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:

    >
    > >> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that *anyone* can
    > >> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done in
    > >> >>> the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    > >> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then generally
    > >> >>> accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    >
    > >> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    > >> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There are
    > >> >>> at least three of them now, although only two regularly get mentioned.
    > >> >>> None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for approval.

    >
    > >> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because of
    > >> > the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more extreme
    > >> > advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_ work if
    > >> > certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for example) were
    > >> > not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as restricting
    > >> > freedom of speech.

    >
    > >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    > >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    > >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    > >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    > > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > > currently being used by the most people.

    >
    > Actually, that's not the case. The stats refer only to the number of hits
    > to the distrowatch pages that refer to each distro, and show only the
    > amount of interest shown in a given period. It doesn't indicate usage or
    > actually popularity (although it can be used as a rough guide to that,
    > it's not intended as such). Ther's a good deal of debate in teh
    > distrowatch forum as to whether the stats should be removed altogether or
    > taken off the front page, because it tends to cause controversy.
    >


    I think a rough guide of popularity is a good thing. They're going to
    list all those distros without any sort of ranking now? Needless to
    say I think that's a bad thing.


    >
    > > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.

    >
    > Newbies don't necessarily know exactly what they're looking for in a
    > distro, since they've only a vague idea what a 'distro' consists of. Most
    > of 'em are coming from Windows, remember.


    No, but I don't think explaining it to them will help the situation at
    all. Instead of bouncing back and forth between "Well if you're
    looking for X, pick this distro, but if you're looking for Y pick this
    distro", I think you should just tell them "Use this distro, it's
    worked well for me," and leave it at that. Will that choice always
    work out? No, but those serious about it will come back with more
    specific questions. I think you scare people off when you give a long
    explanation for something they've only heard of but never seen and
    just want to try out.


    >


    It seemed pretty spot on to me.

    > I think what's needed is a simple explanation of what Linux is, what free
    > software is and which sites to go to to obtain further useful information
    > (distrowatch would be top of that list for me) about where to get it.
    >


    A simple explanation would be good for a newbie guide, but really, if
    you're looking up Linux, I think you have the simple explanation
    covered. When you recommend a restaurant do you give a history of the
    establishment, the style the chefs use, chefs' names, etc.? Or do you
    just say, "Go eat here, the food was great." Distros are more
    complicated than restaurants, but I don't think helping newbies should
    be much different than that. Use the popular distro, and you will get
    some good support and probably like it. If not come back and tell us
    what you didn't like and we can help pick another.

  17. Re: faq?

    On Dec 4, 1:08 am, "DFS" wrote:
    > cc wrote:
    > > COLA Charter

    >
    > > Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    > > flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    > > shifting.

    >
    > Nice. Can I quote it 20x a day, just like High Plains Thumper?


    Only if it's all in one thread and totally unnecessary to begin with.
    Oh wait, you said just like HPT, I guess that was implied.

  18. Re: faq?

    On Dec 4, 6:11 am, William Poaster wrote:
    > On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > cc wrote:

    >
    > >> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    > >>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    > >>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    > >>> >>> *anyone* can
    > >>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be done
    > >>> >>> in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the group for
    > >>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    > >>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.

    >
    > >>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    > >>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    > >>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    > >>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    > >>> >>> approval.

    >
    > >>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    > >>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    > >>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    > >>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    > >>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    > >>> > restricting freedom of speech.

    >
    > >>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    > >>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    > >>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    > >>> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > >> If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    > >> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > >> currently being used by the most people.

    >
    > >> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > >> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.

    >
    > >>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no one
    > >>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    > >>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    > >>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the newbie
    > >>> picks up pretty quickly who is who.

    >
    > >> Newbie's Guide To COLA

    >
    > >> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    > >> everyone is.
    > >> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    > >> called a troll by someone.
    > >> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    > >> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    > >> Poaster, because that's all he knows.

    >
    > HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile because
    > I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to their tune.
    >
    > Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one, see:-http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/


    Anonymous said...
    Has incredibly big feet and you know what that means...big shoes.

    February 3, 2007 5:57 PM


    Anonymous said...
    Much cooler than you.

    February 18, 2007 5:37 PM
    Oh no, I sound terrible.


    > >> COLA Charter

    >
    > >> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    > >> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    > >> shifting.

    >
    > >> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    > >> welcome.

    >
    > > Seems pretty concise to me.

    >
    > It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >


    A poor attempt at what? Writing a faq, charter and newbie guide? Well
    feel free to discuss and add to it then. Or just talk about filters,
    killfiles, and trolls like usual.

  19. Re: faq?

    William Poaster wrote:

    > On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in
    > comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >
    >> cc wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:

    >
    >>>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be
    >>>> >>> done in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the
    >>>> >>> group for
    >>>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>>
    >>>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >>>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >>>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >>>> >>> approval.
    >>>>
    >>>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >>>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >>>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >>>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >>>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >>>> > restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>>
    >>>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>
    >>> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >>> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>> currently being used by the most people.
    >>>
    >>> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no
    >>>> one
    >>>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >>>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the
    >>>> newbie picks up pretty quickly who is who.
    >>>
    >>> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>>
    >>> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >>> everyone is.
    >>> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >>> called a troll by someone.
    >>> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >>> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >>> Poaster, because that's all he knows.

    >
    > HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile
    > because I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to
    > their tune.
    >
    > Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one,
    > see:- http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
    >
    >>> COLA Charter
    >>>
    >>> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >>> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >>> shifting.
    >>>
    >>> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >>> welcome.

    >>
    >> Seems pretty concise to me.

    >
    > It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >


    But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't think
    he should be included in Kent's list.

    Ok, he may be a 'touch' impatient with posters, he also seems to have a
    short temper fuse. But neither of those makes him a troll. If you search
    for cc you will find places where he has helped or advised posters, maybe
    not in the way you or I would have said it, but the information is there.

    What is the alternative? Maybe I am, I too have a touch of impatience, when
    a poster asks a question and doesn't seem to latch on to any of the answers
    he/she was given my response is to move on. In effect I have done a worse
    job, because I would leave a poster still confused over his question, where
    the likes of cc would tell them they are being thick or stupid, which might
    make the poster reread the responses and the answer might click into place.

    If you can be a troll for responding in a way that some find unpleasant,
    then you can equally be a troll for not responding when you could.



  20. Re: faq?

    BearItAll wrote:

    > William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in
    >> comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >>
    >>> cc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>>>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>>>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be
    >>>>> >>> done in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the
    >>>>> >>> group for
    >>>>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>>>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>>>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs.
    >>>>> >>> There are at least three of them now, although only two regularly
    >>>>> >>> get mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole
    >>>>> >>> for approval.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far
    >>>>> > because of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the
    >>>>> > more extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It
    >>>>> > _might_ work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens,
    >>>>> > (flatfish, for example) were not allowed to participate, but this
    >>>>> > could be seen as restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >>>> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>> currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no
    >>>>> one
    >>>>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't
    >>>>> be
    >>>>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>>>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the
    >>>>> newbie picks up pretty quickly who is who.
    >>>>
    >>>> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>>>
    >>>> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >>>> everyone is.
    >>>> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >>>> called a troll by someone.
    >>>> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >>>> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >>>> Poaster, because that's all he knows.

    >>
    >> HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile
    >> because I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to
    >> their tune.
    >>
    >> Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one,
    >> see:- http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
    >>
    >>>> COLA Charter
    >>>>
    >>>> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >>>> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >>>> shifting.
    >>>>
    >>>> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >>>> welcome.
    >>>
    >>> Seems pretty concise to me.

    >>
    >> It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >>

    >
    > But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't
    > think he should be included in Kent's list.


    He is one of the most dishonest twits in cola.
    Few have taken to misrepresent what other people say as much as he has
    He is surpassed in that regard only by Hadron Quark

    < snip >
    --
    Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. The answer is NO


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