faq? - Linux

This is a discussion on faq? - Linux ; On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 1:07 pm, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy: > William Poaster wrote: > >> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in >> comp.os.linux.advocacy: >> >>> cc wrote: >>> >>>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, ...

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Thread: faq?

  1. Re: faq?

    On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 1:07 pm, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in
    >> comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >>
    >>> cc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>>>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>>>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be
    >>>>> >>> done in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the
    >>>>> >>> group for
    >>>>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>>>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>>>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >>>>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >>>>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >>>>> >>> approval.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >>>>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >>>>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >>>>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >>>>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >>>>> > restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >>>> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>> currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no
    >>>>> one
    >>>>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >>>>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>>>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the
    >>>>> newbie picks up pretty quickly who is who.
    >>>>
    >>>> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>>>
    >>>> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >>>> everyone is.
    >>>> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >>>> called a troll by someone.
    >>>> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >>>> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >>>> Poaster, because that's all he knows.

    >>
    >> HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile
    >> because I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to
    >> their tune.
    >>
    >> Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one,
    >> see:- http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
    >>
    >>>> COLA Charter
    >>>>
    >>>> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >>>> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >>>> shifting.
    >>>>
    >>>> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >>>> welcome.
    >>>
    >>> Seems pretty concise to me.

    >>
    >> It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >>

    >
    > But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't think
    > he should be included in Kent's list.


    Kent's list?? Where?

    > Ok, he may be a 'touch' impatient with posters, he also seems to have a
    > short temper fuse. But neither of those makes him a troll. If you search
    > for cc you will find places where he has helped or advised posters, maybe
    > not in the way you or I would have said it, but the information is there.
    >
    > What is the alternative? Maybe I am, I too have a touch of impatience, when
    > a poster asks a question and doesn't seem to latch on to any of the answers
    > he/she was given my response is to move on. In effect I have done a worse
    > job, because I would leave a poster still confused over his question, where
    > the likes of cc would tell them they are being thick or stupid, which might
    > make the poster reread the responses and the answer might click into place.
    >
    > If you can be a troll for responding in a way that some find unpleasant,
    > then you can equally be a troll for not responding when you could.


    Bull****, he is a troll.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  2. Re: faq?

    William Poaster espoused:
    > On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 1:07 pm, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >
    >> William Poaster wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in
    >>> comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >>>
    >>>> cc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>>>>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>>>>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be
    >>>>>> >>> done in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the
    >>>>>> >>> group for
    >>>>>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>>>>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>>>>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >>>>>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >>>>>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >>>>>> >>> approval.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >>>>>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >>>>>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >>>>>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >>>>>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >>>>>> > restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>>> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >>>>> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>>> currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>>> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no
    >>>>>> one
    >>>>>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >>>>>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>>>>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the
    >>>>>> newbie picks up pretty quickly who is who.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >>>>> everyone is.
    >>>>> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >>>>> called a troll by someone.
    >>>>> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >>>>> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >>>>> Poaster, because that's all he knows.
    >>>
    >>> HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile
    >>> because I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to
    >>> their tune.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one,
    >>> see:- http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
    >>>
    >>>>> COLA Charter
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >>>>> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >>>>> shifting.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >>>>> welcome.
    >>>>
    >>>> Seems pretty concise to me.
    >>>
    >>> It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >>>

    >>
    >> But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't think
    >> he should be included in Kent's list.

    >
    > Kent's list?? Where?


    Carved in ancient runic script in tablets of stone..?

    Beats me, mate!

    >
    >> Ok, he may be a 'touch' impatient with posters, he also seems to have a
    >> short temper fuse. But neither of those makes him a troll. If you search
    >> for cc you will find places where he has helped or advised posters, maybe
    >> not in the way you or I would have said it, but the information is there.
    >>
    >> What is the alternative? Maybe I am, I too have a touch of impatience, when
    >> a poster asks a question and doesn't seem to latch on to any of the answers
    >> he/she was given my response is to move on. In effect I have done a worse
    >> job, because I would leave a poster still confused over his question, where
    >> the likes of cc would tell them they are being thick or stupid, which might
    >> make the poster reread the responses and the answer might click into place.
    >>
    >> If you can be a troll for responding in a way that some find unpleasant,
    >> then you can equally be a troll for not responding when you could.

    >
    > Bull****, he is a troll.
    >


    I would have thought that not responding is, by definition, not
    trolling.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  3. Re: faq?

    On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > currently being used by the most people.
    >
    > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.


    That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    My answer is:

    Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    installation where you might not have network access.

    Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.

  4. Re: faq?

    On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 4:49 pm, Mark Kent wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > William Poaster espoused:
    >> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 1:07 pm, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >>
    >>> William Poaster wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tuesday 04 Dec 2007 8:47 am, BearItAll wrote in
    >>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy:
    >>>>
    >>>>> cc wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> >>> There is no *the* real one. The way FAQs work on Usenet is that
    >>>>>>> >>> *anyone* can
    >>>>>>> >>> start a FAQ for a non-moderated group. Sometimes, this will be
    >>>>>>> >>> done in the open, and the proposed FAQ will be submitted to the
    >>>>>>> >>> group for
    >>>>>>> >>> voting, and a majority of the group will approve. It is then
    >>>>>>> >>> generally accepted that this is the FAQ for the group.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> >>> That has not happened in COLA. Different small groups that were
    >>>>>>> >>> constantly fighting with each other produced their own FAQs. There
    >>>>>>> >>> are at least three of them now, although only two regularly get
    >>>>>>> >>> mentioned. None were ever submitted to the group as a whole for
    >>>>>>> >>> approval.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> > Such a FAQ would be a good idea, but I doubt it would get far because
    >>>>>>> > of the inevitable argument between worthless trolls and the more
    >>>>>>> > extreme advocates with everyone else caught in the middle. It _might_
    >>>>>>> > work if certain particularly unpleasant specimens, (flatfish, for
    >>>>>>> > example) were not allowed to participate, but this could be seen as
    >>>>>>> > restricting freedom of speech.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>>>> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>>>> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>>>> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you're new to Linux then go to www.distrowatch.com and download the
    >>>>>> most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>>>> currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>>>> Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It would be useful to have a newbie's guide to COLA, but there is no
    >>>>>>> one
    >>>>>>> objective enough to write it. And, come to think of it, it wouldn't be
    >>>>>>> all that useful. For all their faults, at least none of the factions
    >>>>>>> here is overly shy about expressing their opinion, so I think the
    >>>>>>> newbie picks up pretty quickly who is who.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Newbie's Guide To COLA
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 1. Read posts for at least a day before posting so you know who
    >>>>>> everyone is.
    >>>>>> 2. Don't ask anything about any poster by name. You will be instantly
    >>>>>> called a troll by someone.
    >>>>>> 3. Chrisv will plonk you at least once because that's all he knows.
    >>>>>> 4. If you need help filtering or killfiling posters, ping William
    >>>>>> Poaster, because that's all he knows.
    >>>>
    >>>> HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh I know *lot* more than just that. I filter & killfile
    >>>> because I'm not interested in reading drivel from trolls, & dancing to
    >>>> their tune.
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone wanting to know about trolls in COLA, of whom Carbon Copy is one,
    >>>> see:- http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
    >>>>
    >>>>>> COLA Charter
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Discuss Linux. Unless there is not much Linux news for the day, then
    >>>>>> flame each other about Microsoft, sexual preferences, and nym-
    >>>>>> shifting.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There, the new official COLA faq, charter, and newbie guide. You're
    >>>>>> welcome.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Seems pretty concise to me.
    >>>>
    >>>> It seems just another poor attempt by the "cc" troll to me.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't think
    >>> he should be included in Kent's list.

    >>
    >> Kent's list?? Where?

    >
    > Carved in ancient runic script in tablets of stone..?
    >
    > Beats me, mate!
    >
    >>
    >>> Ok, he may be a 'touch' impatient with posters, he also seems to have a
    >>> short temper fuse. But neither of those makes him a troll. If you search
    >>> for cc you will find places where he has helped or advised posters, maybe
    >>> not in the way you or I would have said it, but the information is there.
    >>>
    >>> What is the alternative? Maybe I am, I too have a touch of impatience, when
    >>> a poster asks a question and doesn't seem to latch on to any of the answers
    >>> he/she was given my response is to move on. In effect I have done a worse
    >>> job, because I would leave a poster still confused over his question, where
    >>> the likes of cc would tell them they are being thick or stupid, which might
    >>> make the poster reread the responses and the answer might click into place.
    >>>
    >>> If you can be a troll for responding in a way that some find unpleasant,
    >>> then you can equally be a troll for not responding when you could.

    >>
    >> Bull****, he is a troll.
    >>

    >
    > I would have thought that not responding is, by definition, not
    > trolling.


    So would I.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  5. Re: faq?

    mark.kent.is.owned@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 2:21 am, Ben Miller-Jacobson
    > wrote:
    >> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>>> Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >>>>> where do i find this group faq if avail please?

    >


    >> I also googled comp os linux advocacy faq and got that one.

    >
    > No you didn't. You are a troll.


    Yes I did, here is a link.

    http://wwwm.google.com/search?hl=en&...aq&btnG=Search

    I am not a troll. You are Gary Stewart.



    --
    "Doomed to waving around penguins with bells attached."

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    mark.kent.is.owned

  6. Re: faq?

    On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    > On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    > >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    > >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    > >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    > >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    > > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > > currently being used by the most people.

    >
    > > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.

    >
    > That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    > My answer is:
    >
    > Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    > books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    > and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    > you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    > installation where you might not have network access.
    >
    > Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    > book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    > yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.


    That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    though? I've never used one myself.

  7. Re: faq?

    On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:

    > On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >>
    >> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    >> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >> > currently being used by the most people.

    >>
    >> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.

    >>
    >> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    >> My answer is:
    >>
    >> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    >> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    >> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    >> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    >> installation where you might not have network access.
    >>
    >> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    >> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    >> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.

    >
    > That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    > though? I've never used one myself.


    Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.

    --
    Kier


  8. Re: faq?

    On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:41:43 -0800, Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >where do i find this group faq if avail please?


    What good would it do you? You're too stupid to even manage the trick of going
    to google and typing the magic words "comp.os.linux.advocacy FAQ".


  9. Re: faq?

    Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    > mark.kent.is.owned@gmail.com wrote:
    >> On Dec 3, 2:21 am, Ben Miller-Jacobson
    >> wrote:
    >>> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>> On 2007-12-03, Ben Miller-Jacobson wrote:
    >>>>> Aspac Hareac wrote:
    >>>>>> where do i find this group faq if avail please?

    >>

    >
    >>> I also googled comp os linux advocacy faq and got that one.

    >>
    >> No you didn't. You are a troll.

    >
    > Yes I did, here is a link.
    >
    > http://wwwm.google.com/search?hl=en&...aq&btnG=Search


    Sorry, typo.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...aq&btnG=Search


    > I am not a troll. You are Gary Stewart.
    >
    >
    >



    --
    "Doomed to waving around penguins with bells attached."

    Random Flatfish Nym:
    Stephen Townshend

  10. Re: faq?

    Kier writes:

    > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:
    >
    >> On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>
    >>> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    >>> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>> > currently being used by the most people.
    >>>
    >>> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>
    >>> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    >>> My answer is:
    >>>
    >>> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    >>> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    >>> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    >>> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    >>> installation where you might not have network access.
    >>>
    >>> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    >>> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    >>> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.

    >>
    >> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    >> though? I've never used one myself.

    >
    > Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.


    Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?


  11. Re: faq?

    Mark Kent wrote:

    >>>
    >>> But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't
    >>> think he should be included in Kent's list.

    >>
    >> Kent's list?? Where?

    >
    > Carved in ancient runic script in tablets of stone..?
    >
    > Beats me, mate!
    >


    Well, hows that. Both William and Kent doing the very thing they accuse cc
    of doing, you both know very well what is meant by Kent's list because it
    is what this part of this thread has been about, but you deliberately
    pretend to not know so you can make a trollish response.

    So both of you then should be added to kent's list of trolls.



  12. Re: faq?

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:42:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>
    >>>> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    >>>> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>> > currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>
    >>>> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    >>>> My answer is:
    >>>>
    >>>> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    >>>> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    >>>> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    >>>> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    >>>> installation where you might not have network access.
    >>>>
    >>>> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    >>>> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    >>>> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.
    >>>
    >>> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    >>> though? I've never used one myself.

    >>
    >> Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.

    >
    > Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?


    Are you quite without a brain? You seem not to have read the thread or
    paid any attention to the discussion at all. YOu whine about lack of good
    documentation, then throw a fit when someone suggests getting a good book
    about using Linux.

    We're talking about newbies, here. People who may not have even used a
    *computer* before, never mind Linux. One of the most sensible ways to get
    the most out of Linux is to buy a good book aimed at taching all the
    basics. Or are you too arrogant to grasp that?

    --
    Kier


  13. Re: faq?

    On Wednesday 05 Dec 2007 8:40 am, BearItAll wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

    > Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >>>>
    >>>> But that to me is wrong. Because I don't see cc as a troll so I don't
    >>>> think he should be included in Kent's list.
    >>>
    >>> Kent's list?? Where?

    >>
    >> Carved in ancient runic script in tablets of stone..?
    >>
    >> Beats me, mate!




    Idiot.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2 (64bit), PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA 3
    Linux systems: Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy" amd64,
    Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007.

  14. Re: faq?

    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:42:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Kier writes:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    >>>>> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>>> > currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>>> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    >>>>> My answer is:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    >>>>> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    >>>>> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    >>>>> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    >>>>> installation where you might not have network access.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    >>>>> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    >>>>> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    >>>> though? I've never used one myself.
    >>>
    >>> Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.

    >>
    >> Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?

    >
    > Are you quite without a brain? You seem not to have read the thread or
    > paid any attention to the discussion at all. YOu whine about lack of good
    > documentation, then throw a fit when someone suggests getting a good book
    > about using Linux.


    You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?

  15. Re: faq?

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:49:19 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:42:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>>> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>>>> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    >>>>>> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    >>>>>> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    >>>>>> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comand download the
    >>>>>> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    >>>>>> > currently being used by the most people.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    >>>>>> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    >>>>>> My answer is:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    >>>>>> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    >>>>>> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    >>>>>> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    >>>>>> installation where you might not have network access.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    >>>>>> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    >>>>>> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    >>>>> though? I've never used one myself.
    >>>>
    >>>> Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.
    >>>
    >>> Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?

    >>
    >> Are you quite without a brain? You seem not to have read the thread or
    >> paid any attention to the discussion at all. YOu whine about lack of good
    >> documentation, then throw a fit when someone suggests getting a good book
    >> about using Linux.

    >
    > You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?


    YOu're the one saying there's no good documentation. Your whole argumnent
    makes zero sense, you're just whining for the sake of it.

    Some people, amazingly enough, still like to use books. And a good book
    allied to an appropriate Linux distro is one way of helping a newbie to
    get to know Linux. What's your problem with that?

    --
    Kier


  16. Re: faq?


    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:49:19 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?

    >
    > YOu're the one saying there's no good documentation. Your whole argumnent
    > makes zero sense, you're just whining for the sake of it.


    Let's take it slowly. I find it incredible that so many people do indeed
    buy a book for Linux. In some ways it can be justified because of the
    total environment change. Things are MUCH more complicated in Linux land
    - even just learning the basics can be hard because of the
    "choice". However, decent desktop tutorials/introductions and
    documentation would remove the need for half the books out there.

    Yes, I like good books. And I do own the Debian Bible. But thats more
    for browsing hints n tips than "getting going".

    >
    > Some people, amazingly enough, still like to use books. And a good book
    > allied to an appropriate Linux distro is one way of helping a newbie to
    > get to know Linux. What's your problem with that?


    It shouldn't be mandatory. Sometimes it seems it almost is.

    --
    Love is what you've been through with somebody.
    -- James Thurber

  17. Re: faq?

    Hadron wrote:

    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:42:18 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Kier writes:
    >>>


    < snip >

    >>>>> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    >>>>> though? I've never used one myself.
    >>>>
    >>>> Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.
    >>>
    >>> Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?

    >>
    >> Are you quite without a brain? You seem not to have read the thread or
    >> paid any attention to the discussion at all. YOu whine about lack of good
    >> documentation, then throw a fit when someone suggests getting a good book
    >> about using Linux.

    >
    > You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?


    That has to be the reason why there are so many books about windows.

    After all, if there is an OS with shoddy documentation, it is windows
    The windows help (for the OS itself) is basically useless, so for any good
    documenation you absolutely *need* additional books.

    And the windows help for apps is mostly at the same level as the linux one:
    Extremely good for several, good enough for most and quite bad for some

    So, score one for linux in this case, as the OS documentation is actually
    better than the windows one.
    That does *not* mean that there is no need for additional books. Obviously
    there is, else they would not exist
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    It could be worse, but it'll take time.


  18. Re: faq?

    On Dec 4, 10:42 pm, Hadron wrote:
    > Kier writes:
    > > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:37 -0800, cc wrote:

    >
    > >> On Dec 4, 11:59 am, Tim Smith wrote:
    > >>> On 2007-12-04, cc wrote:

    >
    > >>> > On Dec 3, 8:54 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
    > >>> >> There's actually only one Q that is FAed, as far as I've seen: which
    > >>> >> distro should I use? Since the opinions on that change as fashion and
    > >>> >> the group's composition change, I'm not sure that really has a good
    > >>> >> answer that could go in a FAQ.

    >
    > >>> > If you're new to Linux then go towww.distrowatch.comanddownload the
    > >>> > most popular one. Guaranteed to have alot of support since it is
    > >>> > currently being used by the most people.

    >
    > >>> > If you're not new, post what you're looking for in a distro for
    > >>> > Christ's sake. We're not mind readers.

    >
    > >>> That's a common answer to that question. However, I disagree with it.
    > >>> My answer is:

    >
    > >>> Go to a bookstore and find the Linux section. Browse through the
    > >>> books and find one you like, that has a CD included. Buy that book,
    > >>> and start with the distro on that CD. Having a good book at hand as
    > >>> you learn will be very helpful, especially for those steps of
    > >>> installation where you might not have network access.

    >
    > >>> Later, after you are comfortable with the distro that came with the
    > >>> book, you will be knowledgeable enough to evaluate other distros
    > >>> yourself. Start at distrowatch.com.

    >
    > >> That's a good one too. How good are the Linux books for beginners
    > >> though? I've never used one myself.

    >
    > > Most I've looked at seem to be pretty good.

    >
    > Why would you need a f*cking book to use an OS?!?!?!?!??!?


    Well I've used Linux in a Nutshell before as a reference for instance.
    They sell Windows books too, but it's not like it's necessary to run
    the OS. Books make people feel comfortable and they're more
    authoritative than an Internet reference. Assuming they don't buy a
    crap book (like I said, never tried a beginners guide myself), if the
    book says, "If you want to do X, click on Y," or something similar,
    it's going to work for the distro on their CD. So I think it could be
    of some use, but I don't think people would "need" it.

  19. Re: faq?

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:11:17 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    >
    > Kier writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:49:19 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?

    >>
    >> YOu're the one saying there's no good documentation. Your whole argumnent
    >> makes zero sense, you're just whining for the sake of it.

    >
    > Let's take it slowly. I find it incredible that so many people do indeed


    Leave out the patronising crap.

    > buy a book for Linux. In some ways it can be justified because of the
    > total environment change. Things are MUCH more complicated in Linux land
    > - even just learning the basics can be hard because of the
    > "choice". However, decent desktop tutorials/introductions and
    > documentation would remove the need for half the books out there.


    So? That wasn't the point being discussed. And the fact is, a lot of
    people are much more comfortable learning from books. Particularly those
    who're older and haven't been reared on computers.

    >
    > Yes, I like good books. And I do own the Debian Bible. But thats more
    > for browsing hints n tips than "getting going".


    ?? You're not serious. A couple of books I found useful (still do, at
    times) are The Linux Cookbook, and How Linux Works. I doubt very much the
    Debian Bible is filled with trivia like browsing hints n tips, either.
    Even if it were, you are missing the point *still*. We're talking about
    newbies, some of whom may not have even used Windows, let alone Linux.

    >
    >>
    >> Some people, amazingly enough, still like to use books. And a good book
    >> allied to an appropriate Linux distro is one way of helping a newbie to
    >> get to know Linux. What's your problem with that?

    >
    > It shouldn't be mandatory. Sometimes it seems it almost is.


    No one suggested it was, or should be, the only way to get information.
    Just that it's one very good way.

    --
    Kier


  20. Re: faq?

    Kier writes:

    > On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:11:17 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Kier writes:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:49:19 +0100, Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> You do realise that good documentation removes the need for a book?
    >>>
    >>> YOu're the one saying there's no good documentation. Your whole argumnent
    >>> makes zero sense, you're just whining for the sake of it.

    >>
    >> Let's take it slowly. I find it incredible that so many people do indeed

    >
    > Leave out the patronising crap.
    >
    >> buy a book for Linux. In some ways it can be justified because of the
    >> total environment change. Things are MUCH more complicated in Linux land
    >> - even just learning the basics can be hard because of the
    >> "choice". However, decent desktop tutorials/introductions and
    >> documentation would remove the need for half the books out there.

    >
    > So? That wasn't the point being discussed. And the fact is, a lot of
    > people are much more comfortable learning from books. Particularly those
    > who're older and haven't been reared on computers.
    >
    >>
    >> Yes, I like good books. And I do own the Debian Bible. But thats more
    >> for browsing hints n tips than "getting going".

    >
    > ?? You're not serious. A couple of books I found useful (still do, at
    > times) are The Linux Cookbook, and How Linux Works. I doubt very much the
    > Debian Bible is filled with trivia like browsing hints n tips, either.
    > Even if it were, you are missing the point *still*. We're talking about
    > newbies, some of whom may not have even used Windows, let alone
    > Linux.


    No I am NOT missing the point. I am saying a NOOb should not have to buy
    a book to learn the basics of a desktop OS.

    We could go around in circles for days on this.

    Yes, maybe, a book on advanced configuration for networking or some such
    or maybe shell scripts - but that is not "desktop OS" IMO.

    The bottom line for me is that MOST, not all, OSS documentation is
    crap. Programmers rarely document well. And that is an issue. Real
    companies put a lot of time and effort into their publications
    department. For a reason.

    I have my Debian bible to browse in order to get ideas for other things
    to do with my machine - certainly not for how to get started.

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