Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD? - Linux

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Thread: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

  1. Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    Hi all, including you nuts at C.O.L.A--laugh all you want.

    System in question: Core 2 Duo (E65xx, 2.33 GHz), ConRoe 1333-D667
    Mobo, 2 GB PC 667 RAM, one 233 SATAII HD. OS that will not boot up
    into the HD (but installs): Vista Ultimate

    I need some encouragement along the lines of "seen that", rather than
    specific advice.

    Vista Ultimate OS seems to load and install (i.e. I can tell using
    various CD-ROM utilities that it seems to be sitting on the NTFS
    formated HD) but the system, once past the POST stage, won't boot into
    the HD but hangs (though it does work off the CD/DVD). Tried playing
    with various boot sequences, but nothing seems to work.

    Installing Vista: when Vista gets to the menu window: Copy Windows |
    Expand files | Install feature | Complete Install | and then reboot
    (after 10 seconds countdown) the system hangs after POST (blinking
    underscore cursor). You can only boot into the CD-ROM (with a
    bootable CD). Tried reformatting (using Acronis Disc manager CD) and
    stripping down the system to no add-on graphics card (using the system
    graphics port only) and no other cards, and still I get the same
    problem.

    Bought the above hardware very very cheap (Asia)--about 20% of the US
    price. The seller managed to make it work, using a legal copy of
    Windows Vista Ultimate. But he had problems doing so. I am pretty
    experienced (about a half dozen systems built from scratch), so I
    figured no problem. But the first hint of a problem was when trying
    to load Windows 2000 from the reformatted (clean) HD--won't work
    (supposed "invalid key" problem, not true). Then Windows XP, using
    legal copies of the same, the same message "Invalid Key" (or along
    those lines). But the keys are not invalid. So something on the boot
    sector of the HD is corrupt I surmise.

    Checked for viruses on the CD--but none. However, here is a
    possibility: the Windows Ultimate DVD I'm using is a pirate version
    (cost $3!), and often these have viruses (relax, I intend to register
    with Microsoft, as I've done in the past--the pirate DVD was simply to
    get the ball rolling rather than download or wait for a legal copy).
    Though this pirate DVD passed all antivirus tests by Kaspersky and
    others, there's a chance that an encrypted virus was on the disk that
    was decrypted/unpacked during installation and now sits on my boot
    sector, and somehow survives reformatting by the Acronis utility (also
    I've been warm rebooting most of the time, which doesn't help).
    However, to be frank, I doubt this is the reason. All contrary
    opinions welcome.

    Crappy MoBo BIOS settings might be the reason--but I did set the
    defaults, set everything as plain as I could, and still no response.
    However, system does work from the CD. Weird--anybody seen this
    before?

    Question: I just want to load an OS on this system--not Vista
    necessarily. I'll even settle for Linux (I tried Linux Mandriva just
    now, but the CD-ROM was not bootable--can anybody point me to a .ISO
    format image file of a bootable Linux OS for a clean system like
    mine?) [I also will reformat the HD to FAT32 once I get a bootable
    LInux OS DVD/CD since I realize Linux doesn't recognize NTFS format]

    Really what I'm looking for in this post is a reply by an experienced
    installer who says: "been there, done that, it could be X,Y,Z...and
    good luck". Morale support more than anything.

    I'm going to bed now...four hours of battling this problem is enough
    for one day. Luckily this system I'm going to give to a friend and
    it's not needed to do my work, otherwise I'd be going frantic!

    Thanks,

    RL


  2. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On Nov 23, 4:19 pm, raylopez99 wrote:

    > Bought the above hardware very very cheap (Asia)--about 20% of the US
    > price. The seller managed to make it work, using a legal copy of
    > Windows Vista Ultimate. But he had problems doing so. I am pretty
    > experienced (about a half dozen systems built from scratch), so I
    > figured no problem. But the first hint of a problem was when trying
    > to load Windows 2000 from the reformatted (clean) HD--won't work
    > (supposed "invalid key" problem, not true). Then Windows XP, using
    > legal copies of the same, the same message "Invalid Key" (or along
    > those lines). But the keys are not invalid. So something on the boot
    > sector of the HD is corrupt I surmise.


    I meant "load Windows 2000 onto the clean HD", using a CD of the same,
    not "from" the HD.

    Also what's weird is that I know this system can work, since the
    seller had a legal copy of Windows Ultimate and made it work (after a
    lot of reboots and fiddling to be sure).

    But the main question is: not how to make Vista Ultimate work on this
    particular system necessarily, but how to get *ANY OS* to load onto
    this system (even Linux!). Tommorrow I will play around with Windows
    98 and even DOS in an attempt to achieve this goal. And yes, Linux-
    nuts, please do tell me of a distro to try...like I said I do have a
    non-bootable (!) CD of Mandriva 2007, and "TinyLinux" (or somesuch
    name) somewhere as well. I need a nice step by step HowTo (but no
    need to be too specific since I'm not a rank beginner).

    Please advise.

    RL

  3. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    * raylopez99 fired off this tart reply:

    > But the main question is: not how to make Vista Ultimate work on this
    > particular system necessarily, but how to get *ANY OS* to load onto
    > this system (even Linux!). Tommorrow I will play around with Windows
    > 98 and even DOS in an attempt to achieve this goal. And yes, Linux-
    > nuts, please do tell me of a distro to try...like I said I do have a
    > non-bootable (!) CD of Mandriva 2007, and "TinyLinux" (or somesuch
    > name) somewhere as well. I need a nice step by step HowTo (but no
    > need to be too specific since I'm not a rank beginner).
    >
    > Please advise.


    http://www.geeksquad.com/

    --
    Tux rox!

  4. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:19:00 -0800 (PST), raylopez99 wrote:

    > Really what I'm looking for in this post is a reply by an experienced
    > installer who says: "been there, done that, it could be X,Y,Z...and
    > good luck". Morale support more than anything.


    I have seen the problem before. Things to check:

    Do you have any USB devices attached? I know, stupid question, you've
    already whittled it down, just double check. Some BIOS's can have goofy
    results with certain USB devices attached.

    Is the drive configured to be a primary master? Some bios's won't boot off
    secondary or slave drives. Also, set it to Master explicitly, don't rely
    on cable-select.

    Try removing the CD-Rom after the OS is installed. Just for kicks.

    Try "resetting" the BIOS to defaults. I've seen corrupted CMOS do that.
    Also try clearing the CMOS via jumper.

    Try something stupid, like download a DOS boot disk from bootdisk.com.

    Swap out the IDE cable, i've seen bad cables cause all kinds of weird
    issues. You may have to re-install because a bad pin on the cable could
    mean it never wrote the data to the right sector.

    If you have an older drive, even if it's ancient, try that.. just to see if
    it's the drive itself causing problems.

    If you have the ability to flash the BIOS to a later revision, try that
    too.

  5. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?


    "raylopez99" wrote in message
    news:5422cc26-eb69-4b3c-abfa-c2791acb4452@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
    > Hi all, including you nuts at C.O.L.A--laugh all you want.
    >
    > System in question: Core 2 Duo (E65xx, 2.33 GHz), ConRoe 1333-D667
    > Mobo, 2 GB PC 667 RAM, one 233 SATAII HD. OS that will not boot up
    > into the HD (but installs): Vista Ultimate
    >
    > I need some encouragement along the lines of "seen that", rather than
    > specific advice.
    >
    > Vista Ultimate OS seems to load and install (i.e. I can tell using
    > various CD-ROM utilities that it seems to be sitting on the NTFS
    > formated HD) but the system, once past the POST stage, won't boot into
    > the HD but hangs (though it does work off the CD/DVD). Tried playing
    > with various boot sequences, but nothing seems to work.
    >
    > Installing Vista: when Vista gets to the menu window: Copy Windows |
    > Expand files | Install feature | Complete Install | and then reboot
    > (after 10 seconds countdown) the system hangs after POST (blinking
    > underscore cursor). You can only boot into the CD-ROM (with a
    > bootable CD). Tried reformatting (using Acronis Disc manager CD) and
    > stripping down the system to no add-on graphics card (using the system
    > graphics port only) and no other cards, and still I get the same
    > problem.
    >
    > Bought the above hardware very very cheap (Asia)--about 20% of the US
    > price. The seller managed to make it work, using a legal copy of
    > Windows Vista Ultimate. But he had problems doing so. I am pretty
    > experienced (about a half dozen systems built from scratch), so I
    > figured no problem. But the first hint of a problem was when trying
    > to load Windows 2000 from the reformatted (clean) HD--won't work
    > (supposed "invalid key" problem, not true). Then Windows XP, using
    > legal copies of the same, the same message "Invalid Key" (or along
    > those lines). But the keys are not invalid. So something on the boot
    > sector of the HD is corrupt I surmise.
    >
    > Checked for viruses on the CD--but none. However, here is a
    > possibility: the Windows Ultimate DVD I'm using is a pirate version
    > (cost $3!), and often these have viruses (relax, I intend to register
    > with Microsoft, as I've done in the past--the pirate DVD was simply to
    > get the ball rolling rather than download or wait for a legal copy).
    > Though this pirate DVD passed all antivirus tests by Kaspersky and
    > others, there's a chance that an encrypted virus was on the disk that
    > was decrypted/unpacked during installation and now sits on my boot
    > sector, and somehow survives reformatting by the Acronis utility (also
    > I've been warm rebooting most of the time, which doesn't help).
    > However, to be frank, I doubt this is the reason. All contrary
    > opinions welcome.
    >
    > Crappy MoBo BIOS settings might be the reason--but I did set the
    > defaults, set everything as plain as I could, and still no response.
    > However, system does work from the CD. Weird--anybody seen this
    > before?
    >
    > Question: I just want to load an OS on this system--not Vista
    > necessarily. I'll even settle for Linux (I tried Linux Mandriva just
    > now, but the CD-ROM was not bootable--can anybody point me to a .ISO
    > format image file of a bootable Linux OS for a clean system like
    > mine?) [I also will reformat the HD to FAT32 once I get a bootable
    > LInux OS DVD/CD since I realize Linux doesn't recognize NTFS format]
    >
    > Really what I'm looking for in this post is a reply by an experienced
    > installer who says: "been there, done that, it could be X,Y,Z...and
    > good luck". Morale support more than anything.
    >
    > I'm going to bed now...four hours of battling this problem is enough
    > for one day. Luckily this system I'm going to give to a friend and
    > it's not needed to do my work, otherwise I'd be going frantic!
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > RL
    >


    Two things...
    Are you hitting 'F6' during the install and loading the SATA drivers?
    If not, this may be why Vista doesn't see your drive.
    2nd, try Ubuntu for a downloadable, bootable Linux distro:
    http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
    You can run it from the CD, or install.
    IHTH,
    Jack R



  6. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    Seeing as how this is posted to Linux groups, I guess you're looking for
    advice along the lines of:

    install a recent Linux distro on the same disk and let it sort out the
    dual boot for you.


  7. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On Nov 23, 5:13 pm, "Jack R" wrote:
    > > Really what I'm looking for in this post is a reply by an experienced
    > > installer who says: "been there, done that, it could be X,Y,Z...and
    > > good luck". Morale support more than anything.

    >
    >
    >
    > Two things...
    > Are you hitting 'F6' during the install and loading the SATA drivers?
    > If not, this may be why Vista doesn't see your drive.
    > 2nd, try Ubuntu for a downloadable, bootable Linux distro:http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
    > You can run it from the CD, or install.
    > IHTH,
    > Jack R



    Jack,
    Tx. I'm downloading Ubuntu now, but it's gonna take 2 hours.

    THis problem is, as I researched your suggestion more, a problem with
    SATA drives. See a suggestion here: http://weblogs.asp.net/jkey/archive/...28/423901.aspx

    But it 's gonna cost me at least a day...I'll report back any progress
    made.

    My latest thinking: try installing Windows2000 again but load the
    driver for SATA Hitachi HD (if I can find it--it wasn't on the CD the
    seller gave me).

    See below.

    Actually my latest thinking is that I have a spare IDE drive, and
    since this is just a gift, I'll unload the SATA drives, which causes
    real pain, and install an IDE drive. Maybe I'll use the Hitachi SATA
    drive for another system.

    RL

    WikiAnswers:
    First answer by 70.241.88.69. Last edit by 70.241.88.69. Question
    popularity: 1 [recommend question]


    INSTALLING WIN XP ON SATA DRIVE

    YOU NEED TO LOAD 3RD PARTY DRIVERS WHEN INSTALLING XP FROM CD WATCH
    CLOSE WHEN INSTALL START FOR "PRESS F6 FOR 3RD PARY DRIVERS" IT WILL
    THEN KEEP LOADING WINDOWS AWHILE THEN STOP AND ASK FOR A FLOPPY WITH
    YOU SATA/SCSI DRIVERS ON IT. YOU MAY HAVE TO SLAVE A FLOPPY IN JUST
    FOR THIS OPERATION. YOU CAN USUALLY GET THESE DRIVERS OFF YOU
    MOTHERBOARD DRIVERS CD OR THE MOTHERBOARD MANUFACTURES WEBSITE. I RUN
    INTO THIS PROBLEM ON ABOUT 20-40% OF SATA DRIVES WHEN I NEED TO
    INSTALL XP. GOOD LUCK

  8. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 03:26:30 -0800, raylopez99 wrote:

    > Verdict: installation of OSes suck, and I doubt Linux is any
    > better.


    Well, actually, in that you would be quite wrong. Linux is, for the most
    part, amazingly easy to install. I should know, since I've installed a
    great many distros on various machines, both laptop and desktop, over the
    past few years. At first it was a modest challenge, but nowadays it's a
    breeze.

    For one thing, the modern distros all have built in partioning tools
    (Mandriva is one of the best in this regard, their GUI partitioner is
    absolutely excellent and very straight-forward and simple to use and
    understand). Also, most a the required drivers for hardware and present
    upion installation. YOu can also choose what software you want to install,
    or just go for the defaults.

    Most distros will also pick up any Windows installation and add it to the
    sequence so it can be chosen at boot time.

    So basically, unless you are very unlucky with your hardware - which tends
    to happen less and less these days - installing Linux doesn't suck at all.

    --
    Kier


  9. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    * raylopez99 fired off this tart reply:

    > INSTALLING WIN XP ON SATA DRIVE
    >
    > YOU NEED TO LOAD 3RD PARTY DRIVERS WHEN INSTALLING XP FROM CD WATCH
    > CLOSE WHEN INSTALL START FOR "PRESS F6 FOR 3RD PARY DRIVERS" IT WILL
    > THEN KEEP LOADING WINDOWS AWHILE THEN STOP AND ASK FOR A FLOPPY WITH
    > YOU SATA/SCSI DRIVERS ON IT. YOU MAY HAVE TO SLAVE A FLOPPY IN JUST
    > FOR THIS OPERATION. YOU CAN USUALLY GET THESE DRIVERS OFF YOU
    > MOTHERBOARD DRIVERS CD OR THE MOTHERBOARD MANUFACTURES WEBSITE. I RUN
    > INTO THIS PROBLEM ON ABOUT 20-40% OF SATA DRIVES WHEN I NEED TO
    > INSTALL XP. GOOD LUCK


    SATA used to be a problem when installed Debian. The install would fail
    if you were installing the 2.6 kernel. You had to install the 2.4
    kernel, and then later figure out how to install the 2.6 kernel yourself
    and switch all your partitions from the /dev/hdN naming to /dev/sdN
    naming.

    These days, the only problem I run into is when building a new kernel
    from the install .config -- for some reason sata_nv (Nvidia chipset)
    isn't picked up by mkinitrd. The workaround is easy, just compile it
    into the kernel.

    --
    Tux rox!

  10. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On Nov 24, 5:52 am, Linonut wrote:

    > SATA used to be a problem when installed Debian. The install would fail
    > if you were installing the 2.6 kernel. You had to install the 2.4
    > kernel, and then later figure out how to install the 2.6 kernel yourself
    > and switch all your partitions from the /dev/hdN naming to /dev/sdN
    > naming.
    >
    > These days, the only problem I run into is when building a new kernel
    > from the install .config -- for some reason sata_nv (Nvidia chipset)
    > isn't picked up by mkinitrd. The workaround is easy, just compile it
    > into the kernel.
    >


    Listen to you, Linonut. You are quite the pro. Imagine now, somebody
    like me, who actually programs as a hobby (using the super user
    friendly MS Visual Studio suite for C#, C++.NET), not being able to
    install an OS easily where the HDs are SATA. Now picture Joe and
    Sally Average trying to do it.

    No wonder Linux has <1% market share.

    RL

  11. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On 24 Nov, 18:03, raylopez99 wrote:
    > On Nov 24, 5:52 am, Linonut wrote:
    >
    > > SATA used to be a problem when installed Debian. The install would fail
    > > if you were installing the 2.6 kernel. You had to install the 2.4
    > > kernel, and then later figure out how to install the 2.6 kernel yourself
    > > and switch all your partitions from the /dev/hdN naming to /dev/sdN
    > > naming.

    >
    > > These days, the only problem I run into is when building a new kernel
    > > from the install .config -- for some reason sata_nv (Nvidia chipset)
    > > isn't picked up by mkinitrd. The workaround is easy, just compile it
    > > into the kernel.

    >
    > Listen to you, Linonut. You are quite the pro. Imagine now, somebody
    > like me, who actually programs as a hobby (using the super user
    > friendly MS Visual Studio suite for C#, C++.NET), not being able to
    > install an OS easily where the HDs are SATA. Now picture Joe and
    > Sally Average trying to do it.
    >
    > No wonder Linux has <1% market share.


    You must be deliberately misreading what Linonut said. He says that
    SATA /used/ to be a problem; that nowadays he runs into problems when
    building a new kernel. Joe and Sally Average are unlikely to be
    building new kernels, don't you think?

    And anyway, you haven't even tried to install Linux yet. You haven't
    even downloaded it yet.

    So please tell us: how does Linonut's comment explain why "Linux has
    <1% market share"?


  12. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:16:34 -0800 (PST), raylopez99 wrote:

    >> I will assume that you've checked you boot sequence. You probably
    >> want to make sure that your primary SATA drive has been properly
    >> installed. The BIOS also has a "Compatibility" mode for the SATA
    >> drives. This may have been defaulted to the harder to support AHCI
    >> interface. The compatibility mode lets the BIOS "emulate" an IDE
    >> drive (OS sees the drive as IDE instead of SATA). This does prevent
    >> the command queing features of SATA-II.

    >
    > Interesting. I just checked out AHCI on Wikipedia and it looks
    > tough. I think you may be onto something, since the BIOS mentioned
    > "spread spectrum" is the default for SATA on this board (the mobo is a
    > cheap but somewhat functional product by ASRock ConRoe133-D667 release
    > 2.0)--it only has one IDE slot for example which necessitated hooking
    > the DVD/CD as a "slave" to the EIDE I am using now as a primary HD-see
    > my previous post just now to this thread)


    Spread Spectrum is not a setting for hard disks, that's a memory setting,
    typically used to reduce problems with electrically noisy environments.

    You also want to make sure it's not in RAID mode if such a mode is
    available, usually you have to disable RAID or set RAID mode to "Legacy" or
    SATA or something like that.

    >>> > Is the drive configured to be a primary master? Some bios's won't boot off
    >>> > secondary or slave drives. Also, set it to Master explicitly, don't rely
    >>> > on cable-select.

    >>
    >> SATA drives don't have any selection jumpers. Since the SATA cables
    >> are smaller, it's easier to run 4 separate cables instead of two
    >> multiconnector "bus" cables.

    >
    > True, true. SATA is nice and fast but on this system hard to
    > configure.


    Sorry, didn't notice that it was SATA. It's still strange, because you
    should at least get to the boot manager.

    Have you tried pressing F8 just after POST (you might have to do it
    repeatedly) to see if the boot menu comes up?

  13. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On Nov 24, 12:48 pm, Erik Funkenbusch
    wrote:

    > You also want to make sure it's not in RAID mode if such a mode is
    > available, usually you have to disable RAID or set RAID mode to "Legacy" or
    > SATA or something like that.
    >


    > Sorry, didn't notice that it was SATA. It's still strange, because you
    > should at least get to the boot manager.
    >
    > Have you tried pressing F8 just after POST (you might have to do it
    > repeatedly) to see if the boot menu comes up?


    Thanks Erik, I'll take note of this for future reference and when I
    install a SATA non-primary, secondary drive to the EIDE that's the C:
    drive.

    RL


  14. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    * raylopez99 fired off this tart reply:

    > On Nov 24, 5:52 am, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> SATA used to be a problem when installed Debian. The install would fail
    >> if you were installing the 2.6 kernel. You had to install the 2.4
    >> kernel, and then later figure out how to install the 2.6 kernel yourself
    >> and switch all your partitions from the /dev/hdN naming to /dev/sdN
    >> naming.
    >>
    >> These days, the only problem I run into is when building a new kernel
    >> from the install .config -- for some reason sata_nv (Nvidia chipset)
    >> isn't picked up by mkinitrd. The workaround is easy, just compile it
    >> into the kernel.

    >
    > Listen to you, Linonut. You are quite the pro. Imagine now, somebody
    > like me, who actually programs as a hobby (using the super user
    > friendly MS Visual Studio suite for C#, C++.NET), not being able to
    > install an OS easily where the HDs are SATA. Now picture Joe and
    > Sally Average trying to do it.
    >
    > No wonder Linux has <1% market share.


    You didn't get the "these days" reference? Or you chose to ignore it?
    Which is it?

    Imagine someone installing a recent distro, already properly configured,
    such as Ubuntu.

    Now imagine DELL selling it.

    Or imagine Walmart selling gOs.

    I don't think much of your imagination. Nor of your concept of "market
    share".

    Nor of your comparison of me, the Linonut, who just loves tinkering with
    things, even risking breaking them royally and destroying data (and I
    have done that), with your average Joe who depends upon the kindness of
    others in order to have a working system.

    And I'm not even /close/ to being a Linux expert. Not even /close/.

    --
    Tux rox!

  15. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    Linonut wrote:
    [ gratuitous deletia ... ]
    >
    > And I'm not even /close/ to being a Linux expert. Not even /close/.


    Well, I'll go ahead and claim to be a Linux expert (at least I play
    one in the consulting world), and even I rarely compile a kernel unless
    I'm working on an embedded project. With modern distros and their use
    of kernel modules, I've typically been fine running the generic kernel.
    I suppose I could shave some boot time by eliminating some of that
    unnecessary hardware probing, but why bother... I've got more important
    stuff to do.

    The truth is Linux is currently better than Windows in regards to
    hardware detection and ease of installation. People only think
    otherwise because they usually buy their system with Windows already
    installed on it.

    Thad


  16. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:

    > The truth is Linux is currently better than Windows in regards to
    > hardware detection and ease of installation.


    I haven't experienced any real problem w/ Linux hardware detection (if you
    don't count Slackware not seeing the USB key when I plugged it in, and if
    you don't count it seeing my monitor as a generic monitor on several
    occasions), but your claim about ease of installation will not fly because
    it's obvious you haven't done a Vista install, which is by far the easiest
    Windows or Linux install I've ever done.




  17. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:17:32 -0600,
    thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    > [ gratuitous deletia ... ]
    >>
    >> And I'm not even /close/ to being a Linux expert. Not even /close/.

    >
    > Well, I'll go ahead and claim to be a Linux expert (at least I play
    > one in the consulting world), and even I rarely compile a kernel unless
    > I'm working on an embedded project. With modern distros and their use
    > of kernel modules, I've typically been fine running the generic kernel.
    > I suppose I could shave some boot time by eliminating some of that
    > unnecessary hardware probing, but why bother... I've got more important
    > stuff to do.
    >


    we had to compile a kernel at work a few months ago. Wanted drivers in
    the kernel that weren't supported at the time. Might as well not have
    bothered, as the next kernel version had them, and we didn't do any
    installs with the version we made in the interim.

    > The truth is Linux is currently better than Windows in regards to
    > hardware detection and ease of installation. People only think
    > otherwise because they usually buy their system with Windows already
    > installed on it.



    Bingo!

    Oh the grief our Windows guy goes through with XP installs compared to
    the Linux desktops! oy, I feel sorry for the guy.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    I'd explain it all to you, but your brain would explode.

  18. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    DFS wrote:
    > thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    >
    >> The truth is Linux is currently better than Windows in regards to
    >> hardware detection and ease of installation.

    >
    > I haven't experienced any real problem w/ Linux hardware detection (if you
    > don't count Slackware not seeing the USB key when I plugged it in, and if
    > you don't count it seeing my monitor as a generic monitor on several
    > occasions), but your claim about ease of installation will not fly because
    > it's obvious you haven't done a Vista install, which is by far the easiest
    > Windows or Linux install I've ever done.


    Actually, I recently helped a friend install Vista on her system and we
    resorted to booting from an Ubuntu live CD to download the mobo drivers.
    I'll grant that it went relatively smooth after that if you don't count
    the hassle of software registration and an extra reboot compared to a
    typical Ubuntu install. Her only real complaint has been that the
    system seems slow to her compared to the XP that used to be on the
    system.

    I'll note that on the same system, Ubuntu detected all the hardware and
    loaded all the appropriate drivers, no extra downloading needed.

    Thad


  19. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean,formated HD?

    On Nov 25, 7:49 am, Linonut wrote

    > Nor of your comparison of me, the Linonut, who just loves tinkering with
    > things, even risking breaking them royally and destroying data (and I
    > have done that), with your average Joe who depends upon the kindness of
    > others in order to have a working system.
    >
    > And I'm not even /close/ to being a Linux expert. Not even /close/.
    >


    So, you love to tinker with OSes rather than use them to do real
    work. This is known as having a hobby. I would not quit my day job.

    Linux is hobbyware--the thrill is just getting it to work, nothing
    else.

    RL

  20. Re: Boot sector problem with Vista? Howto load Linux onto a clean, formated HD?

    * raylopez99 fired off this tart reply:

    > On Nov 25, 7:49 am, Linonut wrote
    >
    >> And I'm not even /close/ to being a Linux expert. Not even /close/.

    >
    > So, you love to tinker with OSes rather than use them to do real
    > work.


    Who said that? I love to tinker with OSes /in/ /addition/ /to/ using
    them to do real work.

    > This is known as having a hobby. I would not quit my day job.


    Computing is my hobby. Computing is my day job.

    What can I say? Computers are my life, much to my wife's chagrin.

    > Linux is hobbyware--the thrill is just getting it to work, nothing
    > else.


    Bull****, pure and simple. The thrill of Linux comes from many sources,
    depending on who is using it.

    Your thrill with it comes from using it to make fun of its users,
    certainly a callow and ignoble motive.

    Perhaps you imbibe too much of the product of your friend and namesake,
    Pepe Lopez?

    --
    The nectar of the agave!

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