A critisism of Fedora 8 - Linux

This is a discussion on A critisism of Fedora 8 - Linux ; In the interest of fairness and balance, I feel compelled to say a few harsh words about the latest release of Fedora, version 8. When Fedora Core 2 was released, I branded it "b0rken Core" because it had a slew ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: A critisism of Fedora 8

  1. A critisism of Fedora 8

    In the interest of fairness and balance, I feel compelled to say a few
    harsh words about the latest release of Fedora, version 8.

    When Fedora Core 2 was released, I branded it "b0rken Core" because it
    had a slew of problems (mainly kernel related). Fedora Core 4 had an
    even nastier bug that invalidated hard drives, due to a conflict between
    the new method used by the kernel disk subsystem to calculate disk
    geometries, and userland tools like parted still using the old method.

    But with the exception of those two issues, every other release of
    Fedora from 1 to 6 inclusive has been excellent. There were few
    compatibility issues, the releases were stable - despite the general
    "bleeding-edge" status of Fedora, package availability was high -
    approaching the level seen at Debian, and the overall presentation was
    slick and intuitive.

    With the release of Fedora 7 there was a severe issue related to
    mkinitrd, LVM and RAID that required manual intervention. The
    maintainers sat on the problem for months, despite it being a blocker
    that essentially prevented installing or upgrading to F7, for those
    affected (including myself). I did what one is supposed to do in the
    FOSS community, and /contributed/. The patch I provided solved the
    problem, and allowed those held back by this bug to finally proceed,
    without requiring manual intervention (important for those unwilling or
    unable to do so, since it was fairly technical in nature).

    The problem may have been solved, but what concerns me is that the
    maintainers didn't seem to be that motivated to do any work, and left
    the *entire* process to a voluntary contributor (me). This is worrying,
    but I put it down as an anomalous event.

    Now we have Fedora 8. I won't mince my words; it sucks.

    After what promised to be the best version of Fedora yet, the final
    release has, if anything, probably more problems than FC2, and that's
    quite an indictment. It seems that F8 is not so much "bleeding edge" as
    "bleeding awful". The Fedora maintainers should be ashamed.

    Once again, I find myself unable to install Fedora, because of a bug so
    fundamental that it stops the installation dead in its tracks. The bug
    has not yet been fully diagnosed, but it appears that either the kernel
    has a nasty regression, or the sweeping changes made to Anaconda were
    not fully tested. Problems of this nature and severity are unacceptable
    for a final release IMHO.

    However, I was prepared to try to work through this bug, just like the
    last time, until I checked the mailing list and discovered that this was
    only one of a huge number of problems experienced by many others. What
    really concerns me is that most of these problems are manifesting as
    users being unable to even install Fedora at all, to a degree I've never
    seen before with Fedora, in terms of the number of affected user.

    A review of the mailing list also reveals problems with NetworkManager,
    Yum and yum-updatesd, broken dependencies in the repos, python, more
    general problems with the kernel, Java (Icedtea), audio, NTFS support,
    and a range of other issues much larger than I've seen with previous
    releases (other than FC2).

    Right now, my only upgrade path is a dist-upgrade using yum, but this
    method is fraught with difficulties, since it tends to leave a mess of
    broken dotfiles that need manual adjustment. On the whole, it would just
    be easier and safer to do a clean install, should such a thing be
    possible - which for many (including myself) currently is not.

    The test releases of F8 exhibited none of these problems, that I'm
    personally aware of, which is why I was so confident that Fedora 8 would
    be the best version yet, so I am bitterly disappointed that the final
    release is such a mess. As such, I find myself unable to perform a clean
    upgrade, and extremely unwilling to take a chance on a dist-upgrade that
    may turn out to be futile, especially since subsequent yum "updates" to
    the present release will essentially break the system.

    The best I can hope for, is that the Fedora Unity team produce a respin
    some time in the future that will incorporate subsequent fixes, but
    given the current Fedora maintainers' apparent apathy and/or ineptitude,
    those fixes may take so long that Fedora 9 will be available before
    then, so I may as well wait for the next release.

    Meanwhile I will continue to contribute, just as I always have, and
    perhaps (like last time) I will find a solution that means I (and
    others) can finally install Fedora 8. However, I find myself greatly
    disillusioned with the Fedora Project at this point.

    On the whole, GNU/Linux continues to be a superior system to Windows,
    both in terms of technical merit and philosophy, but retaining that
    superior status requires that people actually *do* the work required for
    that to happen, and in the case of the Fedora Project they no longer
    seem to have the necessary commitment and/or skills. I have no idea what
    has happened at Red Hat/Fedora over the past year, but whatever it is, I
    don't like it.

    I recently talked about spinning my own distro, as a measure intended to
    flush out certain undesirable components (Mono, etc.). It seems that
    this initiative is becoming more and more necessary by the day. At least
    if I release my own distro then I have no one to blame but myself when
    things go wrong.

    For those who put a lot of time, care and attention into their part of
    Fedora 8, I extend my gratitude, and my condolences that their efforts
    have been utterly destroyed by those who didn't.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    Red Hat/Fedora user, contributor, and past maintainer, since 1998.

    Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.9-91.fc7
    21:02:53 up 15:16, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.24, 0.28

  2. Re: A critisism of Fedora 8


    "[H]omer" wrote in message news:2e7k05-isk.ln1@sky.matrix...
    > In the interest of fairness and balance, I feel compelled to say a few
    > harsh words about the latest release of Fedora, version 8.
    >
    > When Fedora Core 2 was released, I branded it "b0rken Core" because it
    > had a slew of problems (mainly kernel related). Fedora Core 4 had an
    > even nastier bug that invalidated hard drives, due to a conflict between
    > the new method used by the kernel disk subsystem to calculate disk
    > geometries, and userland tools like parted still using the old method.
    >
    > But with the exception of those two issues, every other release of
    > Fedora from 1 to 6 inclusive has been excellent. There were few
    > compatibility issues, the releases were stable - despite the general
    > "bleeding-edge" status of Fedora, package availability was high -
    > approaching the level seen at Debian, and the overall presentation was
    > slick and intuitive.
    >






    Well I've been using Linux since I first installed RH5.2 about 7 years
    ago...
    and since RH7 on have pretty much liked either RH or Fedora Core...
    however a few months back I discovered PCLinuxOS
    and was quite impressed.
    I may be done with FC now



  3. Re: A critisism of Fedora 8

    ____/ philo on Sunday 11 November 2007 23:31 : \____

    > "[H]omer" wrote in message news:2e7k05-isk.ln1@sky.matrix...
    >> In the interest of fairness and balance, I feel compelled to say a few
    >> harsh words about the latest release of Fedora, version 8.
    >>
    >> When Fedora Core 2 was released, I branded it "b0rken Core" because it
    >> had a slew of problems (mainly kernel related). Fedora Core 4 had an
    >> even nastier bug that invalidated hard drives, due to a conflict between
    >> the new method used by the kernel disk subsystem to calculate disk
    >> geometries, and userland tools like parted still using the old method.
    >>
    >> But with the exception of those two issues, every other release of
    >> Fedora from 1 to 6 inclusive has been excellent. There were few
    >> compatibility issues, the releases were stable - despite the general
    >> "bleeding-edge" status of Fedora, package availability was high -
    >> approaching the level seen at Debian, and the overall presentation was
    >> slick and intuitive.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Well I've been using Linux since I first installed RH5.2 about 7 years
    > ago...
    > and since RH7 on have pretty much liked either RH or Fedora Core...
    > however a few months back I discovered PCLinuxOS
    > and was quite impressed.
    > I may be done with FC now


    For quite some time, Red Hat (not the Fedora community) has been working behind
    the curtains.

    Red Hat Preps Desktop Blitz, Regional Events

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The VAR Guy hears. After focusing mainly on x86 servers in recent years, Red
    | Hat will move both downstream and upstream while rallying partners at
    | regional events later this year.
    `----

    http://techiqmag.com/2007/03/22/red-...artner-events/


    Red Hat Global Desktop to appear in November

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | When Red Hat announced its upcoming Linux desktop at its annual summit in
    | May, the company predicted the Red Hat Global Desktop would be out by
    | September. Now, delayed a bit, the new desktop Linux will be appearing in
    | November, company executives are saying.
    `----

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6584091276.html


    Red Hat Offers Global Desktop for Linux

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | With Red Hat launching a new Linux-based desktop operating system,
    | called Global Desktop for Linux, one analyst is saying the software
    | could be "huge" for Linux, particularly in developing countries that
    | haven't gone the Microsoft Windows route. Red Hat's Global Desktop
    | for Linux is a commercial spinoff of the One Laptop Per Child project.
    `----

    http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Red-H...d=0110001A6OI0


    Some deals signed ALREADY. Sheesh.

    Red Hat small business desktops available in Australia early 2008

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | According to Mr Riveros, Red Hat's new Linux desktop release will be easy to
    | implement by small businesses with no Linux expertise in house and will
    | require less security knowledge than for Microsoft Windows.
    `----

    http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13943/53/


    Dell beefs up Precision portable workstation line

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Dell is adding more power to its high-end line of mobile workstations with
    | the debut of the Precision M6300, a 17" notebook geared at engineers,
    | developers, video editors and others who need to tote around some serious
    | silicon.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | RedHat Linux 5.1 will be available on the system in October.
    `----

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09...ecision_m6300/


    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | $> unzip; ping; mount /usr; grep; umount& sleep
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

  4. Re: A critisism of Fedora 8

    philo wrote:

    >
    > "[H]omer" wrote in message
    > news:2e7k05-isk.ln1@sky.matrix...
    >> In the interest of fairness and balance, I feel compelled to say a few
    >> harsh words about the latest release of Fedora, version 8.
    >>
    >> When Fedora Core 2 was released, I branded it "b0rken Core" because it
    >> had a slew of problems (mainly kernel related). Fedora Core 4 had an
    >> even nastier bug that invalidated hard drives, due to a conflict between
    >> the new method used by the kernel disk subsystem to calculate disk
    >> geometries, and userland tools like parted still using the old method.
    >>
    >> But with the exception of those two issues, every other release of
    >> Fedora from 1 to 6 inclusive has been excellent. There were few
    >> compatibility issues, the releases were stable - despite the general
    >> "bleeding-edge" status of Fedora, package availability was high -
    >> approaching the level seen at Debian, and the overall presentation was
    >> slick and intuitive.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Well I've been using Linux since I first installed RH5.2 about 7 years
    > ago...
    > and since RH7 on have pretty much liked either RH or Fedora Core...
    > however a few months back I discovered PCLinuxOS
    > and was quite impressed.
    > I may be done with FC now


    Same here. I'm not a programmer I've never written a single piece of
    software in my life but I love computers. I've been using Linux since 2000,
    first Mandrake then Redhat then Fedora and Debian and I've learned a lot.
    Like you I recently discovered PCLinuxOS and have never looked back. I
    prefer KDE desktop to Gnome anyway and PCLinuxOS is very slick in it's
    presentation. The guys producing that distro have done an excellent job.
    The flavour of the month at the moment seems to be Ubuntu/Kubuntu yet IMHO
    PCLinuxOS beats those hands down. I only wish PCLinuxOS had a 64bit version
    too.......

  5. Re: A critisism of Fedora 8

    Rich R writes:

    > Same here. I'm not a programmer I've never written a single piece of
    > software in my life but I love computers. I've been using Linux since 2000,
    > first Mandrake then Redhat then Fedora and Debian and I've learned a
    > lot.


    Using it to do what?

    > Like you I recently discovered PCLinuxOS and have never looked back. I
    > prefer KDE desktop to Gnome anyway and PCLinuxOS is very slick in it's
    > presentation. The guys producing that distro have done an excellent
    > job.


    How is it's KDE presentation any better or worse than any other distro?
    Compare it to, say, Kubuntu feisty.

    > The flavour of the month at the moment seems to be Ubuntu/Kubuntu yet IMHO
    > PCLinuxOS beats those hands down. I only wish PCLinuxOS had a 64bit version
    > too.......


    What do you know of Ubuntu to compare? You already admit it beats PCLOS
    in the 64 bit department. In what areas does PCLOS beat Ubuntu? I am
    sure you have a host of valid reasons and not just some paper thin, half
    arsed fan boy preferences designed to ingratiate yourself into the COLA
    faithful.

    --
    The better the state is established, the fainter is humanity.
    To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task.
    -- Nietzsche

  6. Re: A critisism of Fedora 8



    > >
    > > Well I've been using Linux since I first installed RH5.2 about 7 years
    > > ago...
    > > and since RH7 on have pretty much liked either RH or Fedora Core...
    > > however a few months back I discovered PCLinuxOS
    > > and was quite impressed.
    > > I may be done with FC now

    >
    > Same here. I'm not a programmer I've never written a single piece of
    > software in my life but I love computers. I've been using Linux since

    2000,
    > first Mandrake then Redhat then Fedora and Debian and I've learned a lot.
    > Like you I recently discovered PCLinuxOS and have never looked back. I
    > prefer KDE desktop to Gnome anyway and PCLinuxOS is very slick in it's
    > presentation. The guys producing that distro have done an excellent job.
    > The flavour of the month at the moment seems to be Ubuntu/Kubuntu yet IMHO
    > PCLinuxOS beats those hands down. I only wish PCLinuxOS had a 64bit

    version
    > too.......



    Although I did install Ubuntu on a few MACs and it worked fine...
    on a PC I prefer PCLOS to any other version of Linux.

    Though Ubuntu has worked OK for me I still don;t see what all the hype is
    about.

    Anyway...since I;ve started fooling around with Linux I sure have learned a
    lot.

    I was a complete novice when I started...and it literally took me months
    before I had my first
    Linux installation working properly.


    My first attempt was on a 486 with a 170 meg HD...
    I only had room for a very small portion of the RH5.2 distro.

    My next move was a P-1 with a 20 gig HD booting win98 and RH5.2



+ Reply to Thread