Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away - Linux ; > > Bill Gates must be saying "It's good to be the Fuhrer" > > Zeig Heil! Should be Sieg Heil. Yes, Leopard does blow Vista away. But it's not just a repetition of the same old story, you know, ...

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Thread: Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

  1. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away


    >
    > Bill Gates must be saying "It's good to be the Fuhrer"
    >
    > Zeig Heil!


    Should be Sieg Heil. Yes, Leopard does blow Vista away. But it's not
    just a repetition of the same old story, you know, Apple is good but
    it costs more and more people are happy with Windows, etc etc.
    Instead, you have to look at the longer term trends. Apple had a
    vastly superior product in the old days before Windows and well into
    the Windows era, but Microsoft caught up in many respects while Apple,
    losing Steve Jobs, entered the doldrums under his lackluster
    successors, who thought that charging ever higher prices for an ever
    smaller market share was a good thing. Also, Microsoft jerked them
    around quite a bit over software. When Jobs returned he made some
    bold moves that could have cost him the whole shebang, but they were
    the right moves and Apple has been running circles around Microsoft
    ever since, especially the last 5 years, both in consumer electronics
    and in the Mac OS. The Mac is still at the pricey upper end, but
    especially since the intel processors have come out they have been
    growing in market share much faster than Windows and are definitely
    cutting into Windows market share. The trolls love to talk about the
    Vista uptake but based on what I've read the total Windows market
    share, including all versions of Windows, is actually down, probably
    mostly due to the Mac. Not a good trend for Gates. Meanwhile Linux
    is threatening the lower end of the market, without a big impact so
    far percentage wise but nevertheless a real threat especially since
    Linux keeps improving. I think BTW that Microsoft's efforts to hinder
    and destroy Linux have been partially successful, and they have
    succeeded in holding up Linux adoption by everything from SCO their
    current patent-troll sockpuppets to file format lock-in to everything
    else. One difference between Linux and Apple is that Apple has an
    advertising budget that has been vicious in its attacks on Microsoft
    and it has had some real effect on the minds of consumers.

    Anecdotally, almost every one of my friends who are Windows users,
    quite a few, are talking about getting a Mac next time instead of
    Vista. It'll mean a new computer anyway, and they've all heard such
    good things about the Mac. Meanwhile, they're open to having me
    install Linux on their old PCs when they do upgrade. The next few
    years will be interesting to see.


  2. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:53:17 -0700, nessuno@wigner.berkeley.edu wrote:

    >>
    >> Bill Gates must be saying "It's good to be the Fuhrer"
    >>
    >> Zeig Heil!

    >
    > Should be Sieg Heil. Yes, Leopard does blow Vista away. But it's not
    > just a repetition of the same old story, you know, Apple is good but
    > it costs more and more people are happy with Windows, etc etc.


    There's even more to it than that. Mac's won't be replacing PC's in any
    large numbers on corporations anytime soon, largely because corporations
    are already invested in PC software, both vertical and horizontal. They're
    not going to be throwing away their Exchange clusters, Their VB apps, their
    150,000 apps they bought that cover their small market niche, etc..

    The thing is, Mac's only appeal to artistic, and largely stand-alone
    environments (where there aren't a lot of client-server apps). Not that
    Mac's can't do Client-server, but there's already so many of those apps on
    Windows, and they can't easily port VB6 apps to Mac's. And they're not
    going to buy a Mac, OSX, VMWare *AND* Windows just to do it.

    > Anecdotally, almost every one of my friends who are Windows users,
    > quite a few, are talking about getting a Mac next time instead of
    > Vista. It'll mean a new computer anyway, and they've all heard such
    > good things about the Mac. Meanwhile, they're open to having me
    > install Linux on their old PCs when they do upgrade. The next few
    > years will be interesting to see.


    If they're not gamers, and they're not running corporate sofware (and need
    corporate connectivity) then a mac will probably just fine for their school
    papers and iTunes purchases.

  3. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > There's even more to it than that. Mac's won't be replacing PC's in any
    > large numbers on corporations anytime soon, largely because corporations
    > are already invested in PC software, both vertical and horizontal. They're
    > not going to be throwing away their Exchange clusters, Their VB apps, their
    > 150,000 apps they bought that cover their small market niche, etc..


    Three too many zeroes.

    --
    Tux rox!

  4. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:01:55 GMT, Linonut wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> There's even more to it than that. Mac's won't be replacing PC's in any
    >> large numbers on corporations anytime soon, largely because corporations
    >> are already invested in PC software, both vertical and horizontal. They're
    >> not going to be throwing away their Exchange clusters, Their VB apps, their
    >> 150,000 apps they bought that cover their small market niche, etc..

    >
    > Three too many zeroes.


    No, there is a missing $ on the front of that. I intended to that to be a
    dollar figure.

  5. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > No, there is a missing $ on the front of that. I intended to that to be a dollar figure.


    Point of order, Mr Chairman .. the actual text is "their VB apps, their
    150,000 apps", so even with a dollor sign inserted "their VB apps, their
    $150,000 apps", it still wouldn't make sense. I mean what single APP
    costs $150,000. What we have here is a clasic case of fuddie
    demonstrating the cannot-ever-admit-to-being-wrong-syndrome.

  6. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    nessuno@wigner.berkeley.edu wrote:

    > The trolls love to talk about the Vista uptake but based on
    > what I've read the total Windows market share, including all
    > versions of Windows, is actually down, probably mostly due to
    > the Mac. Not a good trend for Gates.
    >
    > Meanwhile Linux is threatening the lower end of the market,
    > without a big impact so far percentage wise but nevertheless a
    > real threat especially since Linux keeps improving. I think
    > BTW that Microsoft's efforts to hinder and destroy Linux have
    > been partially successful, and they have succeeded in holding
    > up Linux adoption by everything from SCO their current
    > patent-troll sock puppets to file format lock-in to everything
    > else.


    I agree with you there.

    > One difference between Linux and Apple is that Apple has an
    > advertising budget that has been vicious in its attacks on
    > Microsoft and it has had some real effect on the minds of
    > consumers.


    I have found Apple's ads quite entertaining.

    > Anecdotally, almost every one of my friends who are Windows
    > users, quite a few, are talking about getting a Mac next time
    > instead of Vista. It'll mean a new computer anyway, and
    > they've all heard such good things about the Mac. Meanwhile,
    > they're open to having me install Linux on their old PCs when
    > they do upgrade. The next few years will be interesting to
    > see.


    I have to also agree with you there. So far, none of my friends
    have Vista. They aren't interested in giving up their
    application software that has served them faithfully, nor a
    reason to upgrade their hardware that works fine now. When I
    speak of Linux, it sparks an interest. Thus, it appears that
    Vista is the Ford Edsel of the IT world.

    --
    HPT

  7. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:40:12 +0000, Doug Mentohl wrote:

    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> No, there is a missing $ on the front of that. I intended to that to be a dollar figure.

    >
    > Point of order, Mr Chairman .. the actual text is "their VB apps, their
    > 150,000 apps", so even with a dollor sign inserted "their VB apps, their
    > $150,000 apps", it still wouldn't make sense. I mean what single APP
    > costs $150,000. What we have here is a clasic case of fuddie
    > demonstrating the cannot-ever-admit-to-being-wrong-syndrome.


    Uhh.. dude. $150,000 is *CHEAP* when you start getting into stuff like
    SAP, Vignette, ClearCase, etc... Enterprise applications are often VERY
    expensive because they're aimed at small markets with high development
    costs.

  8. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    On Nov 3, 12:07 pm, High Plains Thumper
    wrote:
    > ness...@wigner.berkeley.edu wrote:
    > > The trolls love to talk about the Vista uptake but based on
    > > what I've read the total Windows market share, including all
    > > versions of Windows, is actually down, probably mostly due to
    > > the Mac. Not a good trend for Gates.

    >
    > > Meanwhile Linux is threatening the lower end of the market,
    > > without a big impact so far percentage wise but nevertheless a
    > > real threat especially since Linux keeps improving. I think
    > > BTW that Microsoft's efforts to hinder and destroy Linux have
    > > been partially successful, and they have succeeded in holding
    > > up Linux adoption by everything from SCO their current
    > > patent-troll sock puppets to file format lock-in to everything
    > > else.

    >
    > I agree with you there.
    >
    > > One difference between Linux and Apple is that Apple has an
    > > advertising budget that has been vicious in its attacks on
    > > Microsoft and it has had some real effect on the minds of
    > > consumers.

    >
    > I have found Apple's ads quite entertaining.


    I have found them very entertaining as well. Especially the Mac Guy
    and PC Guy ads. The good thing is that everything they say about Mac
    is also true about Linux - the main difference is the aesthetics of
    the desktop interface. Linux makes up for that by including a
    rediculous number of competing applications in each genre in addition
    to genres that are not included at all in either Windows/Office or Mac/
    iLife.

    > > Anecdotally, almost every one of my friends who are Windows
    > > users, quite a few, are talking about getting a Mac next time
    > > instead of Vista.


    Yep. Even the MiniMac is a pretty good deal. I will have to admit,
    it's a LOT more expensive than most Vista desktops, about $800 for the
    Mini compared to the bargain basement clearance prices of some of
    these PCs that have dropped below $400. The fact that Apple is still
    selling not just MiniMacs but even the big $2700 Mac Pro as fast as
    they can make them, with people waiting in line for their chance to
    try out the Mac, compared to the 2-3 shoppers per hour walking through
    Staples looking at the Vista PCs like the were looking at 3-day old
    fish and greyish looking beef it a grocery store where there are more
    flies than shoppers.

    I did notice that Staples has switched to a display which allows
    shoppers to test drive the display machines with a Knoppix CD. I've
    also noticed that most of the laptops on the display were "Linux
    Ready" but didn't say so. All but 3 of them were AMD-64 processors,
    and one of them was a Z60m (which I know is Linux ready). There was
    ONE machine that was loaded with Vista Ultimate - but I couldn't get
    AeroGlass to work, so it must have been Linux Ready too.

    > > It'll mean a new computer anyway, and
    > > they've all heard such good things about the Mac. Meanwhile,
    > > they're open to having me install Linux on their old PCs when
    > > they do upgrade. The next few years will be interesting to
    > > see.


    Very true. I went to the Barnes and Nobel and there was an entire
    book case dedicated to Linux. Not Linux and Linux applications, just
    books containing Linux DVDs. The magazine rack had almost shelf feet
    of Linux magazines that contained Linux DVDs.

    > I have to also agree with you there. So far, none of my friends
    > have Vista. They aren't interested in giving up their
    > application software that has served them faithfully, nor a
    > reason to upgrade their hardware that works fine now.


    I actually did go and buy a copy of Vista and a spare hard drive, and
    installed it on my Z61p - for a few hours. The experience wasn't
    pleasing at all. It was slower than XP, it was very "Bare", and just
    wasn't worth all the extra license restrictions. I put XP back on
    (using the other drive).


    > When I speak of Linux, it sparks an interest.


    > Thus, it appears that
    > Vista is the Ford Edsel of the IT world.


    Vista may end up being less popular than Windows ME.

    > --
    > HPT


    Rex


  9. Re: It's Official - Even Microsoft says Leopard Blows Vista Away

    Rex Ballard wrote:

    > Linux makes up for that by including a rediculous
    > number of competing applications....


    You almost got it right: "Linux makes up for that by including a number of
    ridiculous applications..."



    > I did notice that Staples has switched to a display which allows
    > shoppers to test drive the display machines with a Knoppix CD.


    uh oh. There goes another of your MS conspiracy theories.




    > Vista may end up being less popular than Windows ME.


    And you may quit saying bizarre things.




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