An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz.................................. - Linux

This is a discussion on An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz.................................. - Linux ; Hello Roy, I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is *my* side of the saga. 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, wrongly, ...

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Thread: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

  1. An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    Hello Roy,
    I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    What follows is *my* side of the saga.

    1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, wrongly, that I,
    flatfish am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    toward yourself.
    Totally untrue.
    Have I attacked you?
    Of course.
    At the level you claim?
    Of course NOT.

    2. You claim I am Gary Stewart/Stewert.
    Do you have any proof of this?
    Please provide, because I have not seen a single shred yet you babble
    this on and on and on.
    Personally, for me, I could care less but the various Gary Stewarts
    located in NY are more than likely sick and tired of you ringing them
    up.....

    IOW put up or shut up...

    And BTW should you decide I am who you think I am, don't you realize that
    this is good news to me?
    IOW you are hunting for something that does not exist.

    3. You assume that all attacks on yourself, your sexuality, etc are
    eminating from flatfish.
    Completely untrue.
    If you really believe this, why not offer total proof?
    Surely this can't be too hard for you?
    IOW it's easy for you to accuse, but yet you do not prove.
    Why not?

    4. Again, proof. Where is the proof that all these people you accuse of
    being flatfish are really me?
    Any conrete evidence?

    5. You claim nobody interfered with your mission yet you suddenly stopped
    posting from your universities servers and started leeching off Mark
    Kent's ISP.
    Your response?
    IOW why would you switch if things had not gotten too hot for you?
    You down play this but you really know what happened and BTW it's going
    to happen again because you are being watched for TOS violations.
    Get ready to find a new ISP because they are looking at your SSH
    violations.

    6. In conclusion Roy, your posting speaks for itself.
    Nobody has to offer up anything extra.
    Personally I would hire a toad to clean my toilets before I would hire
    you.
    Anyone sane will reach the same conclusion.
    You spend 24x7 posting to the Internet.
    That is sicko.





    --
    flatfish+++

    "Why do they call it a flatfish?"
    "Is this the year of Linux?"
    "Linux is free only when your time has no value"

  2. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big Corporations:

    > H


    Hello Flatcake,
    ********I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    What follows is my side of the saga.

    1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    toward COLA.
    Totally true.
    I attacked you and COLA?
    Of course.
    At the level you claim?
    Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them
    were my femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.

    2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser.
    Do you have to have any proof of this?
    Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.


  3. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:06:01 +0000, 7 wrote:

    > Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big Corporations:
    >
    >> H

    >
    > Hello Flatcake,
    > ¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    > differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is my
    > side of the saga.
    >
    > 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    > flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    > toward COLA.
    > Totally true.
    > I attacked you and COLA?
    > Of course.
    > At the level you claim?
    > Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them were my
    > femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.
    >
    > 2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser. Do you have to
    > have any proof of this? Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.


    This is a perfect example as to why sniffing glue causes brain damage.




    --
    flatfish+++

    "Why do they call it a flatfish?"
    "Is this the year of Linux?"
    "Linux is free only when your time has no value"

  4. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    On Oct 30, 7:11 pm, flatfish+++ wrote:
    > On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:06:01 +0000, 7 wrote:
    > > Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big Corporations:

    >
    > >> H

    >
    > > Hello Flatcake,
    > > I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    > > differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is my
    > > side of the saga.

    >
    > > 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    > > flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    > > toward COLA.
    > > Totally true.
    > > I attacked you and COLA?
    > > Of course.
    > > At the level you claim?
    > > Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them were my
    > > femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.

    >
    > > 2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser. Do you have to
    > > have any proof of this? Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.

    >
    > This is a perfect example as to why sniffing glue causes brain damage.
    >


    No amount of glue could cause what 7 suffers from. It's a birth defect.


  5. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:26:02 +0000 (UTC), flatfish+++ wrote:

    > Hello Roy,
    > I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    > differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    > What follows is *my* side of the saga.


    How about not?

    Why don't you just grow up? You really have an illness of some sort. And
    I say that sincerely, not as an attack. All this sock puppet shenanigans,
    false "stories", accusing people everything imaginable... it's just not
    "normal".

  6. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote Big Corporations:

    > On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:06:01 +0000, 7 wrote:
    >
    >> Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big Corporations:
    >>
    >>> H

    >>
    >> Hello Flatcake,
    >> I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    >> differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is my
    >> side of the saga.
    >>
    >> 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    >> flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    >> toward COLA.
    >> Totally true.
    >> I attacked you and COLA?
    >> Of course.
    >> At the level you claim?
    >> Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them were my
    >> femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.
    >>
    >> 2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser. Do you have to
    >> have any proof of this? Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.

    >
    > This is a perfect example as to why sniffing glue causes brain damage.



    I assume from your post that no one has deduced yet that you are addicted
    to spliffing? and that you are doing all this to feed your spliffing
    habbits?

    You need to get a life away from all this.




  7. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    Asstroturfer cc wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:

    > On Oct 30, 7:11 pm, flatfish+++ wrote:
    >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:06:01 +0000, 7 wrote:
    >> > Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big
    >> > Corporations:

    >>
    >> >> H

    >>
    >> > Hello Flatcake,
    >> > I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    >> > differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is my
    >> > side of the saga.

    >>
    >> > 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    >> > flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be
    >> > directed toward COLA.
    >> > Totally true.
    >> > I attacked you and COLA?
    >> > Of course.
    >> > At the level you claim?
    >> > Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them were my
    >> > femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.

    >>
    >> > 2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser. Do you have to
    >> > have any proof of this? Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.

    >>
    >> This is a perfect example as to why sniffing glue causes brain damage.
    >>

    >
    > No amount of glue could cause what 7 suffers from. It's a birth defect.


    Why so much birth fixated knowledge?
    Perhaps you are mistaken for some afterbirth often?



  8. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:26:02 +0000 (UTC), flatfish+++ wrote:
    >
    >> Hello Roy,
    >> I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    >> differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    >> What follows is *my* side of the saga.

    >
    > How about not?
    >
    > Why don't you just grow up? You really have an illness of some sort. And
    > I say that sincerely, not as an attack. All this sock puppet shenanigans,
    > false "stories", accusing people everything imaginable... it's just not
    > "normal".


    "Regular is what's normal for you!"

    (Hmmm, I remember that from a commercial for a product that assured
    regularity, but I google for it and *my gawd*).

    http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/stay_h...ody/bowel.html

    --
    Butz flex!

  9. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    On Oct 30, 6:26 pm, flatfish+++ wrote:
    > Hello Roy,
    > I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    > differences in public and attempt to resolve them.


    Fair enough. You don't mind if some the rest of us join in the
    discussion?

    > What follows is *my* side of the saga.


    > 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, wrongly, that I,
    > flatfish am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be directed
    > toward yourself.


    It really gets hard to track all of the nymshifters properly. There
    was a period when you made a number of good "trouble reports" in this
    group, sharing your experiences of attempting to install Linux on
    hardware you knew was unsupported (I found the references on Google in
    less than 10 minutes most of the time.

    Other posters started trying to tell similar tales of woe, but the big
    difference was that these other posters didn't give the specifics the
    way you did, or only gave very limited specifics. Still, these became
    known as "flatfish" postings because they were so similar in style.

    > 2. You claim I am Gary Stewart/Stewert.


    I have received e-mails from you that indicate that you are NOT Gary
    Stuart. I'm not sure what your real name is. Unfortunately, so many
    of the "WinTrolls" on this group try very hard to remain anonymous to
    the point of absurdity. I never know if this is because they are on
    Microsoft's payroll, or because they are just guys on the Football
    team who are playing "Bash the Nerds" by bashing pro-Linux posters on
    Cola.

    Most of the Linux advocates in COLA tend to provide links to web
    sites, resumes, and even tell the uptime on their Linux machines.
    Many of them even post from dedicated IP addresses.

    > Do you have any proof of this?


    The classic WinTroll comeback. Not "I am not Gary", or "here is my
    proof that I'm not Gary, such as a link to a web site, but just a
    demand that the poster "prove" a statement that probably can't be
    proven.

    You know you are not Gary, but you also know that you could prove you
    are not Gary in a single posting by simply providing a link to a web-
    site or web page showing your resume, maybe a picture, and maybe even
    some of the more interesting highlights of your life.

    At least this way we would know more about you and could relate to you
    as a person, rather than as just one of the many nyms and nymshifters
    who seem to demand all of the personal details of our lives, publicly
    humiliate us for what we do share, and then demand that we PROVE that
    we are who we say we are.

    > 3. You assume that all attacks on yourself, your sexuality, etc are
    > eminating from flatfish.


    You HAVE attacked me for my sexuality, but also sent me a letter of
    apology. It's understandable that others may have assumed that you
    just nymshifted to take your shot.

    One of the problems with e-mail in general, and usenet in particular,
    is that it is very hard to trace people's identities. Many usenet
    hosting sites do try to validate their posters in some way, even if
    it's only by processing nominal credit card payments or asking the
    user to fill out a form that includes an e-mail which is used to send
    the registration code or password.

    > 4. Again, proof. Where is the proof that all these people you accuse of
    > being flatfish are really me?


    You know how usenet works, which means you know that it can't be
    proven. Again, you could prove that you are NOT the nymshifters by
    providing links that show your true identity, but you choose not to do
    that. Nothing requires you to do this.

    > 5. You claim nobody interfered with your mission yet you suddenly stopped
    > posting from your universities servers and started leeching off Mark


    > IOW why would you switch if things had not gotten too hot for you?


    I used to make the mistake of posting to usenet from a work related e-
    mail account and found myself totally flooded with spam. There were
    times when it got ridiculous. I got every spam scam e-mail you could
    imagine. These days I pretty much clean out the e-mail account I use
    for usenet postings with a vacuum cleaner.

    In the past I've had to use different usenet accounts because of Job
    changes, ISP changes, ISP mergers, e-mail service changes, and e-mail
    service takeovers.

    > 6. In conclusion Roy, your posting speaks for itself.
    > Nobody has to offer up anything extra.


    Yes, but we love to help Roy out.

    > Personally I would hire a toad to clean
    > my toilets before I would hire you.


    That's your perogative. I can think of a few publishers and political
    compaigns who would love to make use of his uncanny ability to dig out
    lots of great articles on interesting topics related to the main topic
    of this newsgroup.

    > You spend 24x7 posting to the Internet.
    > That is sicko.


    I'm not sure that's true. Roy does manage to find lots of good
    articles on Linux, and then organizes them by theme. He seems to have
    several "burst times" usually in the morning, again around noon, then
    around the dinner hour, and then a couple of new postings in the
    evening.

    There are some, such as DFS, who seem to be getting a salary to post
    to this newsgroup.
    I don't know whether DFS gets paid to post or not. He may just have a
    flex schedule, similar to mine. I have to meet certain objectives for
    the day and the week, but often, it's easier to work later at night,
    or early in the morning, because I'm working with off-shore teams or
    getting output from one team at 5 PM and need to give it to the other
    team at 8 AM. I was in college when I figured out that there were 24
    hours in a day and 7 days in a week, and that I only slept for 6 hours
    a day 7 days a week. Most people work 8 hours a day 5 days a week,
    they spend time around the water cooler, and make small-talk between
    meetings or between calls.

    I'd rather debate whether Windows or Linux will create more economic
    opportunity for the poor, than hang around the cooler and talk about
    who's going to win the World Series, EVEN when the Denver team is
    playing.

    > --
    > flatfish+++
    >
    > "Why do they call it a flatfish?"

    A flatfish is a fish that lies on the bottom of the ocean floor, and
    almost disappears into the sand and the silt. This enables it to hide
    from predators and attack prey by surprise.

    I see the similarities.

    > "Is this the year of Linux?"


    We've already had several "year of Linux" events.
    I think the day when we see Linux, and Linux only, on 75% of all
    desktops and latpops, is still a few years away.

    We are already seeing Linux deployed on over 50 million PCs per year,
    but not to the exclusion of Windows.

    We have seen 100 million Linux devices deployed annually, but these
    were embedded devices such as routers and WiFi hubs.

    We have seen Linux deployed on about 70% of the projects where the
    customer has the option of Linux or Windows, but these are often back-
    end and utility systems rather than high-profile front-ends such as
    web servers.

    We have seen Linux performance go up radically since 1997 when it was
    rated Product of the Year, we've seen Linux introduce hundreds of new
    features to the desktop and server market, often YEARS before they
    were introduced by Microsoft.

    We've seen Microsoft hauled into court numerous times and even when
    they lost their cases, the were still allowed to negotiate settlements
    that allowed them to exclude Linux from the marketplace.

    We've seen HP, Dell, Acer, and Lenovo introduce 64 bit processors on
    laptops and desktops even though the windows operating systems sold
    with them only allowed them to function in 32 bit mode.

    We've seen HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba, and Lenovo all announce "Linux
    Ready" computers.

    We've seen "Linux Ready" models grow from a niche market to the most
    widely sold models. The machines are sold with Windows, but they are
    trivial to convert to Linux.

    > "Linux is free only when your time has no value"


    That's true when you are only considering the time spent to configure
    Linux on a "Linux Hostile" laptop or desktop machine. Now that Linux-
    Ready machines are so much more common, and so much easier to
    identify, even that argument is dissapearing.

    When considering the use of a computer over a 3-5 year period, Linux
    begins to show many advantages over Vista or XP. You know that the
    next version of Windows will be disruptive or "Revolutionary". You
    will spend more time doing manual cut-and-paste operations due to lack
    of ability to script. You will spend more time dealing with viruses,
    dealing with back-ups, installing and updating Windows and Windows
    software, including more reboots and more shifts.



  10. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    ____/ Linonut on Wednesday 31 October 2007 01:56 : \____

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:26:02 +0000 (UTC), flatfish+++ wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hello Roy,
    >>> I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    >>> differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    >>> What follows is *my* side of the saga.

    >>
    >> How about not?
    >>
    >> Why don't you just grow up? You really have an illness of some sort. And
    >> I say that sincerely, not as an attack. All this sock puppet shenanigans,
    >> false "stories", accusing people everything imaginable... it's just not
    >> "normal".

    >
    > "Regular is what's normal for you!"
    >
    > (Hmmm, I remember that from a commercial for a product that assured
    > regularity, but I google for it and *my gawd*).
    >
    > http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/stay_h...ody/bowel.html


    I decided I would not reply to Gary nyms anymore, but he's really pushing it
    here. Gary must really make up his mind. Is she a male or is he a female? She
    needs to decide whether we should refer to him as "his" or "her", otherwise
    we'll just refer to her as "it", or s/h/it.

    By the way, the personal attack from Gary won't be forgotten. The scum would be
    sued if I had the time. I haven't the time, but I have evidence. I have plenty
    of it and I know other people who gather enough evidence about Microsoft
    shills without taking legal action.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Previous signature has been conceded
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  11. Re: An Open Letter To Flat Skate..................................

    On Oct 30, 9:34 pm, 7 wrote:
    > Asstroturfer cc wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Oct 30, 7:11 pm, flatfish+++ wrote:
    > >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:06:01 +0000, 7 wrote:
    > >> > Anti-Linux Asstroturfer flatfish+++ wrote on behalf of Big
    > >> > Corporations:

    >
    > >> >> H

    >
    > >> > Hello Flatcake,
    > >> > I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    > >> > differences in public and attempt to resolve them. What follows is my
    > >> > side of the saga.

    >
    > >> > 1. You and your gang (ie:Mark etc) often assume, correctly, that I,
    > >> > flatcake am responsible for the various attacks that seem to be
    > >> > directed toward COLA.
    > >> > Totally true.
    > >> > I attacked you and COLA?
    > >> > Of course.
    > >> > At the level you claim?
    > >> > Of course NOT by self - they were all my socks; some of them were my
    > >> > femine socks as I like getting in touch with my femmine side.

    >
    > >> > 2. You know I am Gary Stewart/Stewert the cross dresser. Do you have to
    > >> > have any proof of this? Why? Its obvious I am flatcake.

    >
    > >> This is a perfect example as to why sniffing glue causes brain damage.

    >
    > > No amount of glue could cause what 7 suffers from. It's a birth defect.

    >
    > Why so much birth fixated knowledge?
    > Perhaps you are mistaken for some afterbirth often?


    So much birth fixated knowledge? Have I ever remotely talked about
    birth? Even in this instance the emphasis is on "defect." You're an
    embarrassment.


  12. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Linonut on Wednesday 31 October 2007 01:56 : \____
    >
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o'
    >> wisdom:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:26:02 +0000 (UTC), flatfish+++ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Hello Roy,
    >>>> I think maybe it's time that you and I vent our various
    >>>> differences in public and attempt to resolve them.
    >>>> What follows is *my* side of the saga.
    >>>
    >>> How about not?
    >>>
    >>> Why don't you just grow up? You really have an illness of some sort.
    >>> And
    >>> I say that sincerely, not as an attack. All this sock puppet
    >>> shenanigans, false "stories", accusing people everything imaginable...
    >>> it's just not "normal".

    >>
    >> "Regular is what's normal for you!"
    >>
    >> (Hmmm, I remember that from a commercial for a product that assured
    >> regularity, but I google for it and *my gawd*).
    >>
    >> http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/stay_h...ody/bowel.html

    >
    > I decided I would not reply to Gary nyms anymore, but he's really pushing
    > it here. Gary must really make up his mind. Is she a male or is he a
    > female? She needs to decide whether we should refer to him as "his" or
    > "her", otherwise we'll just refer to her as "it", or s/h/it.


    I saw the flatfish+++ post, then binned it & all the others in the group.
    Denied s/he/it's Gary Stewart, yet there are still things that give him
    away. Asks for proof too, so s/he/it *still* doesn't know what gives s/h/it
    away!

    > By the way, the personal attack from Gary won't be forgotten. The scum
    > would be sued if I had the time. I haven't the time, but I have evidence.
    > I have plenty of it and I know other people who gather enough evidence
    > about Microsoft shills without taking legal action.


    When you do have time, I'd go for it.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2, PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA1.5
    Linux systems: Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007,
    Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy"

  13. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    Rex Ballard wrote:

    >(snip troll food)


    Why even entertain the sick fsck flat****, with his "prove they are
    all me" straw-man idiocy? They are not all him, but many are. Fsck
    him.


  14. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    William Poaster writes:

    >
    > I saw the flatfish+++ post, then binned it & all the others in the group.
    > Denied s/he/it's Gary Stewart, yet there are still things that give him
    > away. Asks for proof too, so s/he/it *still* doesn't know what gives s/h/it
    > away!


    Poor Willy Boaster. Still showing off about his secret methods for
    determining who Flatfish is or isn't. You need help Willy. Really.

    >
    >> By the way, the personal attack from Gary won't be forgotten. The scum
    >> would be sued if I had the time. I haven't the time, but I have evidence.
    >> I have plenty of it and I know other people who gather enough evidence
    >> about Microsoft shills without taking legal action.

    >
    > When you do have time, I'd go for it.


    Yes. But you are mad. You believe in MS Shills. It might surprise you,
    but MS really don't care about you and your pudgy bearded friends.

    --
    El poder de moverse a s√* mismo es la esencia del alma.
    -- Platón. (427-347 a.C.) Filósofo griego.

  15. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Hadron belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > Yes. But you are mad. You believe in MS Shills. It might surprise you,
    > but MS really don't care about you and your pudgy bearded friends.


    How would you know?


  16. Re: An Open Letter To Roy Schestowitz..................................

    Linonut wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Hadron belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> Yes. But you are mad. You believe in MS Shills. It might surprise you,
    >> but MS really don't care about you and your pudgy bearded friends.

    >
    > How would you know?


    From his FUD handbook he received from Erik F
    --
    Microsoft: The company that made email dangerous
    And web browsing. And viewing pictures. And...


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