How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ? - Linux

This is a discussion on How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ? - Linux ; Tim Smith writes: > In article , > Finbarr wrote: >> > I would suggest you learn what computer science is. All your questions >> > have nothing to do with computer science. To put it in non-CS terms, >> ...

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Thread: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

  1. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    Tim Smith writes:

    > In article <1193769240.042082.116470@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
    > Finbarr wrote:
    >> > I would suggest you learn what computer science is. All your questions
    >> > have nothing to do with computer science. To put it in non-CS terms,
    >> > you are like a student preparing to study mechanical engineering asking
    >> > if he should get a car with a manual transmission or an automatic
    >> > transmission. That's an interesting question, but has nothing to do
    >> > with getting a mechanical engineering degree.

    >>
    >> A big thank you to both Rex and Ramon for their lengthy, and
    >> informative, replies. With regard to Tim's reply that I should learn
    >> what computer science is, that is exactly what I am in the process of
    >> doing. I am only 16yrs old and clearly do not know as much as you
    >> guys, which is why I am seeking a range of advice before choosing the
    >> right course for me.

    >
    > Well, that's why I gave you an analogy. Take a look here:
    >
    >
    >
    > That will give you a decent idea of what is covered by computer
    > science.


    Finbarr is a troll as a private email he sent me revealed.

    --
    I don't think anyone should write their autobiography until after
    they're dead. -Samuel Goldwyn

  2. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    cc writes:

    > On Oct 30, 3:49 pm, Peter Köhlmann
    > wrote:
    >> The "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile
    >> expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "newsreader
    >> magician", "hardware maven" and "time coordinator" Hadron Quark, aka Hans
    >> Schneider, aka Damian O'Leary wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:

    >>
    >> >> Hadron did eloquently scribble:
    >> >>> As far as practical "courses" for the languages and tools of interest
    >> >>> keep an eye out for

    >>
    >> >>> C/C++
    >> >>> GDB
    >> >>> Eclipse
    >> >>> Perl
    >> >>> PHP
    >> >>> Python
    >> >>> Apache/Tomcat
    >> >>> Mysql/RDBMS

    >>
    >> >> You forgot java, unless that fad has passed now. It was just introduced
    >> >> as the main computer language for the first year when I was in the
    >> >> second, but then, this was 11 years ago.

    >>
    >> >> Before then we did modula-2.
    >> >> You also forgot SML, occam and prolog, which feature quite greatly in
    >> >> some courses (different programming approaches, AI/expert systems,
    >> >> parallel processing, etc)

    >>
    >> > None of which have any practical usage in an Open Source
    >> > environment.

    >>
    >> Lets see:
    >>
    >> Modula-2: Supplied on SuSE by default
    >> SML: Supplied on SuSE by default
    >> Occam: released for linux in 1999
    >> Prolog: Supplied on SuSE by default
    >>
    >> All of those are also on the Debian disks
    >>
    >> Yes, that certainly reeks of "no practical usage"
    >>
    >> When will you start to get your very first clue about linux, Hadron Quark?
    >>
    >> < snip more Hadron idiocy >

    >
    > Supplied by default does not instantly make it have practical usage.
    > That said, they certainly don't have widespread usage, but are the
    > best choices in certain instances. In general they are good to know
    > just for a different programming paradigm.
    >


    See other reply and use of word "practical". They are rarely used and
    have little if any impact on his job prospects. The skills I listed a
    FAR more likely to be of value with a nod to spike1 for noting I left
    out Java.

    --
    I don't think anyone should write their autobiography until after
    they're dead. -Samuel Goldwyn

  3. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    William Poaster writes:

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> William Poaster wrote:
    >>
    >>> nessuno@wigner.berkeley.edu wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I was surprised to see from other postings that there are clearly some
    >>>>> strong advocates of Microsoft in this Group.
    >>>>
    >>>> There are several of them who post regularly, but one or two of them
    >>>> use a million different aliases so they seem like more. Their main
    >>>> pupose seems to be to disrupt this newsgroup, and they put a huge
    >>>> effort into it, so you wonder what they're getting out of it (like
    >>>> who's paying their bills). Hadron hasn't been around much lately, but
    >>>> he has a nasty style that you will see if you read many of his
    >>>> posts.
    >>>
    >>> He's in alt.os.linux.ubuntu ATM, trying to play all innocent.
    >>>

    >>
    >> And getting the flak from all corners by now
    >>
    >> His MS astroturfing was a bit too obvious

    >
    > Yes, quite a few have noticed that.


    Only you and your cronies Willy.

    --
    I don't think anyone should write their autobiography until after
    they're dead. -Samuel Goldwyn

  4. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    "[H]omer" writes:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that finbarr2008@googlemail.com spake thusly:
    >
    >> Next year I would like to go to University to do a BSc Computer
    >> Science.
    >>
    >> However, I think my job prospects on leaving University would be
    >> greatly enhanced if I had studied Open Source computing. A lot of
    >> companies seem to be using it, but Universities insist on turning out
    >> graduates who seem to only know Microsoft/Windows.

    >
    > IME Universities (in the UK at least) do not teach "Microsoft", they
    > teach the fundamentals of what you need to become a Software Engineer.
    > They may use UNIX, Solaris, Linux, BSD, Mac, or even Windows system
    > throughout the faculties, but at the end of the day, what they actually
    > /teach/ is the analytical and empirical methods of problem solving.
    >
    > You'll learn calculus and algebra, several programming languages, design
    > principles, operating systems, and in later years things like human
    > computer interaction, artificial intelligence, and database systems. The
    > specific platform used to teach those principles is not as important as
    > the principles themselves.


    Absolutely 100% spot on. Swoon. I agree with Omer.

    >
    > Post-graduation, you should then consider vocational training along the
    > lines of RHCE (Linux) or MSCE (Windows). Such courses are expensive, but
    > are often made available as part of employee training, so you may be


    Few real grars with real degrees ever bothered with MSCE in my
    experience. That was more the guys from support/qa who wangled their way
    into development roles for the higher salaries and hotter chicks ....

    > So the short answer is, pick a University because you /like/ it, not
    > because of what software platforms it may or may not use in its
    > curricula. Unless you're a straight "A" student, chances are that you'll
    > just have to make do with whatever the UCAS' clearing system throws at
    > you anyway, so make sure that all five of your choices are good ones.
    > And remember to take the opportunity to actually visit each university,
    > so you can make an informed judgement; they all have open days at least
    > once a year.


    Again I would agree on this. Never trust the prospectus. A feel for a
    place you will be spending 3 or more years at is important.

    >
    > As for job prospects related to Linux training, well just look at the
    > current job market and see for yourself, it's a 50/50 split between
    > database and administrators, and most of it seems to be *nix related,
    > or


    For Linux work maybe in that there are very few paid jobs in real
    development other than embedded systems. Database Admin and or/ System
    Admin are considered very second rate in top notch developers.

    > at least in heterogeneous environments, and those with *nix experience
    > are a highly sought-after commodity, so you'll have /no/ problem
    > securing employment. Indeed, various studies over the last few years
    > indicates a massive IT staff shortage in the UK (and presumably
    > elsewhere too), so you'll end up having your pick of positions.


    Not straight out of Uni he wont. Not in any company worth joining.

    --
    Ninguém está mais longe da verdade do que aquele que conhece todas as
    respostas.

  5. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    Hadron wrote:

    > Tim Smith writes:
    >
    >> In article <1193769240.042082.116470@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
    >> Finbarr wrote:
    >>> > I would suggest you learn what computer science is. All your
    >>> > questions
    >>> > have nothing to do with computer science. To put it in non-CS terms,
    >>> > you are like a student preparing to study mechanical engineering
    >>> > asking if he should get a car with a manual transmission or an
    >>> > automatic
    >>> > transmission. That's an interesting question, but has nothing to do
    >>> > with getting a mechanical engineering degree.
    >>>
    >>> A big thank you to both Rex and Ramon for their lengthy, and
    >>> informative, replies. With regard to Tim's reply that I should learn
    >>> what computer science is, that is exactly what I am in the process of
    >>> doing. I am only 16yrs old and clearly do not know as much as you
    >>> guys, which is why I am seeking a range of advice before choosing the
    >>> right course for me.

    >>
    >> Well, that's why I gave you an analogy. Take a look here:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> That will give you a decent idea of what is covered by computer
    >> science.

    >
    > Finbarr is a troll as a private email he sent me revealed.
    >


    Certainly, Hadron Quark, certainly

    --
    Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a way of life.


  6. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    Hadron did eloquently scribble:
    >> Prolog has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >> How so?
    >> SML has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >> How so?
    >> Occam has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >> How so?


    > "practical"


    > These skills are not widely sort.


    saught
    And widely is not everything, if some skill is rate, when it is needed, the
    price is higher. Some prolog guru looking for a job? He might have to look
    far and wide but I bet when he finds one, the wages and benefits are excellent.

    You have HEARD of expert systems? Haven't you?
    That's what prolog's THERE for.

    > I did Occam back in 1988 I think it was. Haven't seen anything of it
    > since in the wild.


    That's cos the transputer fall flat on its face, alas.
    But it is still of practical use. You learn different ways of doing things
    which opens up different possibilities you never considered before.

    Is that "of no practical use"?

    The same can be said for SML.

    > Yes, these as skills are good for improving someones thinking and
    > strategy but they are not wideley sought skills for professional
    > programmers coming out of University - Open Source or not.


    My point is, "improving someone's thinking" *IS* of practical use, even if
    the method used to do so isn't.
    --
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
    |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
    | in | suck is probably the day they start making |
    | Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. Re: How can I study Computer Science - but avoid Microsoft ?

    spike1@freenet.co.uk did eloquently scribble:
    > Hadron did eloquently scribble:
    >>> Prolog has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >>> How so?
    >>> SML has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >>> How so?
    >>> Occam has no practical use in an open source environment?
    >>> How so?


    >> "practical"


    >> These skills are not widely sort.


    > saught
    > And widely is not everything, if some skill is rate, when it is needed, the

    RARE
    --
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
    |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
    | in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
    | Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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