[News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies - Linux ; The Perfect Crime ,----[ Quote ] | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't | have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart around | with words. If ...

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Thread: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

  1. [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    The Perfect Crime

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't
    | have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart around
    | with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the Linux name he
    | didn't care.
    |
    | He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's using
    | his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy for its own
    | product.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    | fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine and
    | Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    |
    | Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    `----

    http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml

    It seems like Sun is having similar issues.

    The SCO-ification of NetApp

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Meanwhile PJ has announced that Groklaw is officially following the case and
    | she has a few questions she’d like to ask NetApp.
    | So it would appear that NetApp is now the next SCO in the eyes of many,
    | whether is wants to be or not. Is there anything the company could do to
    | avoid such a fate?
    |
    | Sun has said what it would do if it emerged victorious - some explanation
    | from NetApp as to how it would deal with ZFS and the open source community if
    | it were to get a decision in its favor might help.
    `----

    http://blogs.the451group.com/opensou...ion-of-netapp/

  2. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > The Perfect Crime
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't
    >| have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart around
    >| with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the Linux name he
    >| didn't care.
    >|
    >| He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's using
    >| his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy for its own
    >| product.
    >|
    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    >| fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine and
    >| Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    >|
    >| Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    > `----
    >
    > http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml
    >


    Hehe - bring on Peter K! They can rant together.

    Someone, somewhere, will finally realise that if it weren't for the GPL,
    there wouldn't be any Linux. Unfortunately, few people are able to
    think forwards to the damage the software patents fiasco is going to
    cause. forward-thinking is always harder than ranting, though.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  3. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    ____/ Mark Kent on Saturday 27 October 2007 10:13 : \____

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> The Perfect Crime
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>| And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't
    >>| have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart
    >>| around with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the Linux name
    >>| he didn't care.
    >>|
    >>| He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's using
    >>| his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy for its own
    >>| product.
    >>|
    >>| [...]
    >>|
    >>| Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    >>| fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine and
    >>| Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    >>|
    >>| Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    >> `----
    >>
    >> http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml
    >>

    >
    > Hehe - bring on Peter K! They can rant together.
    >
    > Someone, somewhere, will finally realise that if it weren't for the GPL,
    > there wouldn't be any Linux. Unfortunately, few people are able to
    > think forwards to the damage the software patents fiasco is going to
    > cause. forward-thinking is always harder than ranting, though.


    Watch this (particularly the last 2 minutes):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwFO11UsH7w

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    In an Open world without walls or fences, who needs Windows or Gates? -- ??
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  4. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > The Perfect Crime
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    > | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't
    > | have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart around
    > | with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the Linux name he
    > | didn't care.
    > |
    > | He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's using
    > | his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy for its own
    > | product.
    > |
    > | [...]
    > |
    > | Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    > | fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine and
    > | Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    > |
    > | Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    > `----
    >
    > http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml


    That article is complete ****, Roy.


  5. Re: Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    On Oct 27, 9:59 am, Linonut wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >
    >
    > > The Perfect Crime

    >
    > > ,----[ Quote ]
    > > | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He didn't
    > > | have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not fart around
    > > | with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the Linux name he
    > > | didn't care.
    > > |
    > > | He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's using
    > > | his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy for its own
    > > | product.
    > > |
    > > | [...]
    > > |
    > > | Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    > > | fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine and
    > > | Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    > > |
    > > | Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    > > `----

    >
    > >http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml

    >


    > That article is complete ****, Roy.


    Nope, I wouldn't define it as ****. Far form it. It is a nice example
    of propaganda. We all know that "sex sells", but this guy is
    considering the unique characteristics of his audience (read: customer
    base). Just like the tabloids sell ads based on scandals, this guy is
    selling some "Xfile" application and the best he could come up with
    was to write a controversial article (full of crap, I agree) to
    attract our eyes.

    -Ramon




  6. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    [H]omer wrote:

    > The whole point of the name "GNU/Linux" is respectful attribution of
    > the primary components that comprise the actual operating system
    > environment ... not some /hijacking/ attempt. It seems that the
    > author not only lacks common sense, but good manners as well.



    You can barely type a sentence without revealing your hypocrisy, disrespect
    and lack of manners:

    Results 1 - 9 of 9 for "GNU/Linux" author:[H]omer
    Results 1 - 10 of about 1,540 for "Linux" author:[H]omer



  7. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    ____/ [H]omer on Saturday 27 October 2007 23:13 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >
    >> The Perfect Crime

    >
    > I must say I'm surprised to see you cite an article like this. I can
    > only assume you meant it as a talking point.
    >
    > The "variants" that the author can't seem to find are GNU/Hurd and
    > GNU/BSD, both of which are available as Debian systems:
    >
    > http://www.debian.org/ports/#nonlinux
    >
    > Which of course makes the point that Linux (the kernel) is not exactly
    > irreplaceable in the GNU system.
    >
    > As to the assertion that Stallman hijacked the Linux name, it is IMHO
    > quite the opposite, as I've stated before. Linux is a kernel, that's
    > all. GNU comprises most of the rest of the core components that make a
    > system actually usable. For someone to describe e.g. Ubuntu as a "Linux
    > distro" is to ignore attribution of a huge proportion of the core
    > system. One might just as easily call it "Ubuntu Gnome" or "Ubuntu KDE",
    > as "Ubuntu Linux".
    >
    > The whole point of the name "GNU/Linux" is respectful attribution of the
    > primary components that comprise the actual operating system environment
    > ... not some /hijacking/ attempt. It seems that the author not only
    > lacks common sense, but good manners as well.


    Yes, I saw what I cited (didn't read the /whole/ thing) and thought the same
    thing. GNU makes up 15% of Debian, IIRC, whereas Linux is just 3% (in terms of
    LOCs). It's amazing that only a tiny fragment of the O/S often gets all the
    credit. In the case of Ubuntu (and many users don't even know it's Linux),
    it's the wrapper that gets all the credit. Very few Ubuntu users know about
    the roots in Debian.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Ping this IP, see if it collapses" --Windows TCP
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 123 total, 1 running, 121 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  8. Re: Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    ____/ Ramon F Herrera on Saturday 27 October 2007 19:50 : \____

    > On Oct 27, 9:59 am, Linonut wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > The Perfect Crime

    >>
    >> > ,----[ Quote ]
    >> > | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He
    >> > | didn't have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not
    >> > | fart around with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the
    >> > | Linux name he didn't care.
    >> > |
    >> > | He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's
    >> > | using his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy
    >> > | for its own product.
    >> > |
    >> > | [...]
    >> > |
    >> > | Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    >> > | fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine
    >> > | and Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    >> > |
    >> > | Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    >> > `----

    >>
    >> >http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml

    >>

    >
    > > That article is complete ****, Roy.

    >
    > Nope, I wouldn't define it as ****. Far form it. It is a nice example
    > of propaganda. We all know that "sex sells", but this guy is
    > considering the unique characteristics of his audience (read: customer
    > base). Just like the tabloids sell ads based on scandals, this guy is
    > selling some "Xfile" application and the best he could come up with
    > was to write a controversial article (full of crap, I agree) to
    > attract our eyes.
    >
    > -Ramon


    Speaking of controversy and propaganda, this one comes to mind.

    Interview with Dr Andrew S Tanenbaum

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Andrew S Tanenbaum: A couple of years ago this guy called Ken Brown
    | wrote a book saying that Linus stole Linux from me, from Minix,
    | and therefore the intellectual property rights are unclear and
    | therefore companies shouldn't use Linux because I might sue them.
    |
    | It later came out that Microsoft had paid him to do this --
    | and I defended Linus. I wrote on my Web site saying that this
    | guy Brown came through, visited me and I gave him the
    | [correct] story.
    `----

    http://www.builderau.com.au/strategy...9273224,00.htm
    http://tinyurl.com/3c78xz


    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | The most satisfying eXPerience is UNIX
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    01:00:01 up 11 days, 10:45, 3 users, load average: 1.30, 0.81, 0.96
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine

  9. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ [H]omer on Saturday 27 October 2007 23:13 : \____
    >
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> The Perfect Crime

    >>
    >> I must say I'm surprised to see you cite an article like this. I can
    >> only assume you meant it as a talking point.
    >>
    >> The "variants" that the author can't seem to find are GNU/Hurd and
    >> GNU/BSD, both of which are available as Debian systems:
    >>
    >> http://www.debian.org/ports/#nonlinux
    >>
    >> Which of course makes the point that Linux (the kernel) is not exactly
    >> irreplaceable in the GNU system.
    >>
    >> As to the assertion that Stallman hijacked the Linux name, it is IMHO
    >> quite the opposite, as I've stated before. Linux is a kernel, that's
    >> all. GNU comprises most of the rest of the core components that make a
    >> system actually usable. For someone to describe e.g. Ubuntu as a "Linux
    >> distro" is to ignore attribution of a huge proportion of the core
    >> system. One might just as easily call it "Ubuntu Gnome" or "Ubuntu KDE",
    >> as "Ubuntu Linux".
    >>
    >> The whole point of the name "GNU/Linux" is respectful attribution of the
    >> primary components that comprise the actual operating system environment
    >> ... not some /hijacking/ attempt. It seems that the author not only
    >> lacks common sense, but good manners as well.

    >
    > Yes, I saw what I cited (didn't read the /whole/ thing) and thought the same
    > thing. GNU makes up 15% of Debian, IIRC, whereas Linux is just 3% (in terms of
    > LOCs). It's amazing that only a tiny fragment of the O/S often gets all the
    > credit. In the case of Ubuntu (and many users don't even know it's Linux),
    > it's the wrapper that gets all the credit. Very few Ubuntu users know about
    > the roots in Debian.
    >


    This is the whole issue around credit, unfortunately. Everyone will
    always want to get the credit for their own piece, naturally, but the
    public at large really don't care a great deal for such things - they
    want their celebrities to be wrapped, packaged and delivered by tabloid
    newspaper, glossy magazine and trash-television programming.

    I would point out that although the GNU parts of the OS are not that
    huge, glibc and gcc are linked to and compiled with by probably 75% or
    more of every package in any major distribution. This includes the
    kernel, of course.

    I have great sympathy with Richard Stallman wanting the term GNU/Linux
    to be adopted for distributions. He's never attempted to take the
    credit for the kernel, although many people have accused him of such,
    in an effort to damage his credibility.

    Still, we have many such people here, even a large number of people who
    would claim to be on-topic posters, who seem to believe that if they
    repeat the same maltruths over and over, they will magically become
    true.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  10. Re: Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Ramon F Herrera on Saturday 27 October 2007 19:50 : \____
    >
    >> On Oct 27, 9:59 am, Linonut wrote:
    >>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> > The Perfect Crime
    >>>
    >>> > ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> > | And what did the real player Linus Torvalds say about all this? He
    >>> > | didn't have time to quabble. His was to create an operating system, not
    >>> > | fart around with words. If Stallman was going to latch 'GNU' onto the
    >>> > | Linux name he didn't care.
    >>> > |
    >>> > | He should have. For Stallman's taken the next step in his theft: he's
    >>> > | using his weapon of words to completely remove 'Linux' from relevancy
    >>> > | for its own product.
    >>> > |
    >>> > | [...]
    >>> > |
    >>> > | Stallman's is playing a very dirty game. FOSS is being attacked on two
    >>> > | fronts: the merciless unrelenting Microsoft market manipulation machine
    >>> > | and Richard M Stallman. FOSS needs better; the world needs better.
    >>> > |
    >>> > | Why is Linus Torvalds doing nothing?
    >>> > `----
    >>>
    >>> >http://rixstep.com/2/1/20071026,01.shtml
    >>>

    >>
    >> > That article is complete ****, Roy.

    >>
    >> Nope, I wouldn't define it as ****. Far form it. It is a nice example
    >> of propaganda. We all know that "sex sells", but this guy is
    >> considering the unique characteristics of his audience (read: customer
    >> base). Just like the tabloids sell ads based on scandals, this guy is
    >> selling some "Xfile" application and the best he could come up with
    >> was to write a controversial article (full of crap, I agree) to
    >> attract our eyes.
    >>
    >> -Ramon

    >
    > Speaking of controversy and propaganda, this one comes to mind.
    >
    > Interview with Dr Andrew S Tanenbaum
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| Andrew S Tanenbaum: A couple of years ago this guy called Ken Brown
    >| wrote a book saying that Linus stole Linux from me, from Minix,
    >| and therefore the intellectual property rights are unclear and
    >| therefore companies shouldn't use Linux because I might sue them.
    >|
    >| It later came out that Microsoft had paid him to do this --
    >| and I defended Linus. I wrote on my Web site saying that this
    >| guy Brown came through, visited me and I gave him the
    >| [correct] story.
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.builderau.com.au/strategy...9273224,00.htm
    > http://tinyurl.com/3c78xz
    >


    Yeah - this was part of the SCO legal activity, wasn't it? Trying to
    "prove" that Linux couldn't possibly have been written, even though
    every step of the development of it is public domain information.

    Maybe they should've recruited Dan Brown instead. We could've had a new
    bestseller "The Linux Code"....

    arghhhhhhhh - sorry folks :-)

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  11. Re: [News] Linus Torvalds, RMS, and Attention to More Proxies

    ____/ Mark Kent on Monday 29 October 2007 08:11 : \____

    > Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >> ____/ [H]omer on Saturday 27 October 2007 23:13 : \____
    >>
    >>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>>
    >>>> The Perfect Crime
    >>>
    >>> I must say I'm surprised to see you cite an article like this. I can
    >>> only assume you meant it as a talking point.
    >>>
    >>> The "variants" that the author can't seem to find are GNU/Hurd and
    >>> GNU/BSD, both of which are available as Debian systems:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.debian.org/ports/#nonlinux
    >>>
    >>> Which of course makes the point that Linux (the kernel) is not exactly
    >>> irreplaceable in the GNU system.
    >>>
    >>> As to the assertion that Stallman hijacked the Linux name, it is IMHO
    >>> quite the opposite, as I've stated before. Linux is a kernel, that's
    >>> all. GNU comprises most of the rest of the core components that make a
    >>> system actually usable. For someone to describe e.g. Ubuntu as a "Linux
    >>> distro" is to ignore attribution of a huge proportion of the core
    >>> system. One might just as easily call it "Ubuntu Gnome" or "Ubuntu KDE",
    >>> as "Ubuntu Linux".
    >>>
    >>> The whole point of the name "GNU/Linux" is respectful attribution of the
    >>> primary components that comprise the actual operating system environment
    >>> ... not some /hijacking/ attempt. It seems that the author not only
    >>> lacks common sense, but good manners as well.

    >>
    >> Yes, I saw what I cited (didn't read the /whole/ thing) and thought the same
    >> thing. GNU makes up 15% of Debian, IIRC, whereas Linux is just 3% (in terms
    >> of LOCs). It's amazing that only a tiny fragment of the O/S often gets all
    >> the credit. In the case of Ubuntu (and many users don't even know it's
    >> Linux), it's the wrapper that gets all the credit. Very few Ubuntu users
    >> know about the roots in Debian.
    >>

    >
    > This is the whole issue around credit, unfortunately. Everyone will
    > always want to get the credit for their own piece, naturally, but the
    > public at large really don't care a great deal for such things - they
    > want their celebrities to be wrapped, packaged and delivered by tabloid
    > newspaper, glossy magazine and trash-television programming.
    >
    > I would point out that although the GNU parts of the OS are not that
    > huge, glibc and gcc are linked to and compiled with by probably 75% or
    > more of every package in any major distribution. This includes the
    > kernel, of course.
    >
    > I have great sympathy with Richard Stallman wanting the term GNU/Linux
    > to be adopted for distributions. He's never attempted to take the
    > credit for the kernel, although many people have accused him of such,
    > in an effort to damage his credibility.
    >
    > Still, we have many such people here, even a large number of people who
    > would claim to be on-topic posters, who seem to believe that if they
    > repeat the same maltruths over and over, they will magically become
    > true.


    Yesterday I watched this 1-hour TV program (not Revolution OS) and it contained
    some good bits on credit and the way GNU and Linux are connected.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15745977&hl=en

    Recommended!

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Rid your machine from malware. Install GNU/Linux.
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 116 total, 1 running, 115 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

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