On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:11:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> XML vs Open
>
> ,----[ Quote
>| I heard Microsoft claiming that OOXML is open because it is in XML. In "open"
>| they mean that anyone can use, process, manipulate, interpret OOXML
>| documents. Is that really so? I say not!
>|
>| [...]
>|
>| The claim from Microsoft regarding OOXML being open because it is an XML
>| format hits that very point I was making. This is just plain wrong and people
>| need to understand why.
> `----
>
> http://lehors.blogspot.com/2007/10/xml-vs-open.html

From the article:

"This is why the specification is so important, and this is one of the
reasons so many people have been complaining about OOXML. OOXML is so
poorly defined that there is no way two engineers in two different places
in the world can sit down, implement the specification, and except the same
behavior. The OOXML specification has way too many unspecified or
incompletely specified features."

Funny, that's what experts are saying about ODF.

http://testsuite.opendocumentfellows...g/summary.html

Erik Funkenbusch espoused:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:11:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>> XML vs Open
>>
>> ,----[ Quote
>>| I heard Microsoft claiming that OOXML is open because it is in XML. In "open"
>>| they mean that anyone can use, process, manipulate, interpret OOXML
>>| documents. Is that really so? I say not!
>>|
>>| [...]
>>|
>>| The claim from Microsoft regarding OOXML being open because it is an XML
>>| format hits that very point I was making. This is just plain wrong and people
>>| need to understand why.
>> `----
>>
>> http://lehors.blogspot.com/2007/10/xml-vs-open.html
>
> From the article:
>
> "This is why the specification is so important, and this is one of the
> reasons so many people have been complaining about OOXML. OOXML is so
> poorly defined that there is no way two engineers in two different places
> in the world can sit down, implement the specification, and except the same
> behavior. The OOXML specification has way too many unspecified or
> incompletely specified features."
>
> Funny, that's what experts are saying about ODF.
>
> http://testsuite.opendocumentfellows...g/summary.html

So what? ODF is an open standard - anyone can contribute to it.
OOXML is not a standard at all, rather, a collection of incompatible
and incomplete descriptions of a mixed-bag of definitions, some going
back many years, where the definition is sometimes almost as puerile as
"how it was done in word 2.0".

The real standards will develop, the trojan horses will rot and collapse
under the weight of their outer skins, revealing the corrupted and
corrupting mess beneath.

I wonder where you'll be sitting, Mr Off Topic and Anti Charter poster.
Why don't you go to a group proper to your postings?

Ahh... yes, because you don't think the rules should apply to you, do
you? Just like your paymasters, you think it should be different for
you. Well, matey, it's not. Leave, now, please, and take your rotting
corruption with you.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

____/ Mark Kent on Friday 26 October 2007 15:21 : \____

> Erik Funkenbusch espoused:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:11:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> XML vs Open
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote
>>>| I heard Microsoft claiming that OOXML is open because it is in XML. In
>>>| "open" they mean that anyone can use, process, manipulate, interpret OOXML
>>>| documents. Is that really so? I say not!
>>>|
>>>| [...]
>>>|
>>>| The claim from Microsoft regarding OOXML being open because it is an XML
>>>| format hits that very point I was making. This is just plain wrong and
>>>| people need to understand why.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> http://lehors.blogspot.com/2007/10/xml-vs-open.html
>>
>> From the article:
>>
>> "This is why the specification is so important, and this is one of the
>> reasons so many people have been complaining about OOXML. OOXML is so
>> poorly defined that there is no way two engineers in two different places
>> in the world can sit down, implement the specification, and except the same
>> behavior. The OOXML specification has way too many unspecified or
>> incompletely specified features."
>>
>> Funny, that's what experts are saying about ODF.
>>
>> http://testsuite.opendocumentfellows...g/summary.html
>
> So what? ODF is an open standard - anyone can contribute to it.
> OOXML is not a standard at all, rather, a collection of incompatible
> and incomplete descriptions of a mixed-bag of definitions, some going
> back many years, where the definition is sometimes almost as puerile as
> "how it was done in word 2.0".
>
> The real standards will develop, the trojan horses will rot and collapse
> under the weight of their outer skins, revealing the corrupted and
> corrupting mess beneath.
>
> I wonder where you'll be sitting, Mr Off Topic and Anti Charter poster.
> Why don't you go to a group proper to your postings?
>
> Ahh... yes, because you don't think the rules should apply to you, do
> you? Just like your paymasters, you think it should be different for
> you. Well, matey, it's not. Leave, now, please, and take your rotting
> corruption with you.

By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.

Corrupt countries were more likely to support the OOXML document format

,----[ Quote ]
| Is this just a random coincidence? The median of the CPI index of the above
| mentioned 70 countries is 3.95. Of the most corrupted half (CPI index less
| than 3.95) 23 or 77% voted for approval (approval or approval with comments)
| and 7 or 23% for disapproval; 5 abstained. Of the least corrupted half (CPI
| index more than 3.95) 13 or 54% voted for approval and 11 or 46% voted for
| disapproval; 11 abstained - see the table below.
`----

http://www.effi.org/blog/kai-2007-09-05.en.html


Microsoft accused of more OOXML standards fiddling

,----[ Quote ]
| However the 11 new countries are refusing to say how they will vote. These
| include Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, Ecuador, Jamaica, Lebanon, Malta, Pakistan,
| Trinidad and Tobago, Turkey, Uruguay and Venezuela. Most people seem to think
| that these have been put there by Vole to make sure the standard gets pushed
| through.
`----

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=42106

Read it, Erik. Learn what sick monster you play for.

Erik is a Sham. Here's Why.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | GPL - Global Programmer's Law
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:21:25 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:

> So what? ODF is an open standard - anyone can contribute to it.

If by "anyone" you mean Sun and IBM, then yeah. Sun and IBM control the
ODF technical comittee. They don't have to let anything happen they don't
want to have happen.

> I wonder where you'll be sitting, Mr Off Topic and Anti Charter poster.
> Why don't you go to a group proper to your postings?

That's rich, coming from you.. the guy that licks Roy's boots and reposts
everything (no matter how off topic and charter) he writes.

> Ahh... yes, because you don't think the rules should apply to you, do
> you? Just like your paymasters, you think it should be different for
> you. Well, matey, it's not. Leave, now, please, and take your rotting
> corruption with you.

My irony meter is off the scale.

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.

You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.

Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

>My irony meter is off the scale.

It probably needs repair, like your logic meter.

Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

>That is, if you had any shame.

Now MY irony meter is off the scale!

____/ Erik Funkenbusch on Friday 26 October 2007 17:03 : \____

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.
>
> You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
> for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.

What a scummy man you are. Once again changing subject line to accuse people,
eh...?

Is bribery not a crime? Yes? Well, Microsoft bribed people for OOXML.

To borrow a recent example, how about inside trading?

Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet

,----[ Quote ]
| MarketWatch.com reports that Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's
| Entertainment and Devices division, sold $6.2 million of Microsoft
| stock just prior to announcing that Microsoft was going to have to
| extend XBox 360 warranties to three years because of extensive
| failures. The filings note that this was not part of any
| scheduled diversification or selling program; this was a
| conscious, unscheduled sale by the guy in charge of releasing
| news that could affect the value of Microsoft stock.
|
| [...]
|
| Insider trading is a very serious violation of the law; just
| ask Martha Stewart, who served five months in prison for
| avoiding losses of $43,000 through trades that just had suspicious
| timing (no insider trading was actually proven). This is $6.3
| million that went straight into Robbie Bach's pocket.
`----

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...7_id.html?.v=1

That's a crime, Erik. If you defend this behaviour, then you endorse crime. Be
careful.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Switch to GNU/Linux. < http://www.getgnulinux.org/ >
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.57 1.53 2.02 2/129 6326
http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:35:20 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> ____/ Erik Funkenbusch on Friday 26 October 2007 17:03 : \____
>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.
>>
>> You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
>> for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.
>
> What a scummy man you are. Once again changing subject line to accuse people,
> eh...?

You're the one accusing me of being a criminal, asshole.

> Is bribery not a crime? Yes? Well, Microsoft bribed people for OOXML

Whether or not it's true, that has nothing to do with me. So stop lying.

> To borrow a recent example, how about inside trading?

And again, what has that got to do with me? Nothing. You're reaching, and
lying about me at the same time.

Asshole.

> That's a crime, Erik. If you defend this behaviour, then you endorse crime. Be
> careful.

That's rich, considering YOU are the one proven to have broken the law, on
several occasions with your copyright infringement.

Second, that's an awfully slippery slope you're standing on.

Third, since I have never defended those imaginary actions of yours, you're
lying by claiming I have.

Stop it.

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
> Corrupt countries were more likely to support the OOXML
> document format
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> Is this just a random coincidence? The median of the CPI index
> of the above mentioned 70 countries is 3.95. Of the most
> corrupted half (CPI index less than 3.95) 23 or 77% voted for
> approval (approval or approval with comments) and 7 or 23% for
> disapproval; 5 abstained. Of the least corrupted half (CPI
> index more than 3.95) 13 or 54% voted for approval and 11 or
> 46% voted for disapproval; 11 abstained - see the table below.
> `----
>
> http://www.effi.org/blog/kai-2007-09-05.en.html

Interesting article. I found this about EFFI from the article:

What is Effi?

Electronic Frontier Finland ry (Effi) was founded in 2001 to
defend active users and citizens of the Finnish society in the
electronic frontier. Effi influences legislative proposals
concerning for example personal privacy, freedom of speech and
user rights in copyright law. We make statements, press releases
and participate actively in actual public policy and legal
discussion. Effi also works in close cooperation with
organizations sharing same goals and values in the Europe, United
States and elsewhere. Effi is a founding member of the European
Digital Rights (EDRi). The members of the board and many active
members are experts in the fields of law and technology. Many of
us do University-level research on these matters.

They seem to be a reputable consumer's organisation. It seems as
though the convicted monopoly is loading the dice by seeding the
jury, does it not?

--
HPT

Roy Schestowitz espoused:
> ____/ Erik Funkenbusch on Friday 26 October 2007 17:03 : \____
>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.
>>
>> You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
>> for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.
>
> What a scummy man you are. Once again changing subject line to accuse people,
> eh...?
>
> Is bribery not a crime? Yes? Well, Microsoft bribed people for OOXML.
>
> To borrow a recent example, how about inside trading?
>
> Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
>| MarketWatch.com reports that Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's
>| Entertainment and Devices division, sold $6.2 million of Microsoft
>| stock just prior to announcing that Microsoft was going to have to
>| extend XBox 360 warranties to three years because of extensive
>| failures. The filings note that this was not part of any
>| scheduled diversification or selling program; this was a
>| conscious, unscheduled sale by the guy in charge of releasing
>| news that could affect the value of Microsoft stock.
>|
>| [...]
>|
>| Insider trading is a very serious violation of the law; just
>| ask Martha Stewart, who served five months in prison for
>| avoiding losses of $43,000 through trades that just had suspicious
>| timing (no insider trading was actually proven). This is $6.3
>| million that went straight into Robbie Bach's pocket.
> `----
>
> http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...7_id.html?.v=1
>
> That's a crime, Erik. If you defend this behaviour, then you endorse crime. Be
> careful.
>

Roy - you're wasting your time with Erik. He sold his soul decades ago.
I doubt he'd even know how to behave ethically any more. He'll just yell and
shout and abuse, and then go running back to the troll-feeders here, to
continue to spout his off-topic and anti-charter corrupting diatribes.

To look back at the allegorical Lord of the Rings, The One Ring is
ultimate power, and yet it steadily corrupts all who come into contact
with it. Erik is like a Gollum character, he's been in contact with the
ring for so many years now he's forgotten the young, happy, innocent,
ambitious and naive man he was so many years ago, he's now an embittered
sociopathic, owned creature, who's pimped out onto the virtual streets of
the internet to push a political position he probably once could've
analysed, but long ago lost any independence of thought as the
corruption eroded his ability to think.

Killfile him.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

____/ Mark Kent on Saturday 27 October 2007 09:49 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
>> ____/ Erik Funkenbusch on Friday 26 October 2007 17:03 : \____
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>
>>>> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.
>>>
>>> You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
>>> for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.
>>
>> What a scummy man you are. Once again changing subject line to accuse
>> people, eh...?
>>
>> Is bribery not a crime? Yes? Well, Microsoft bribed people for OOXML.
>>
>> To borrow a recent example, how about inside trading?
>>
>> Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| MarketWatch.com reports that Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's
>>| Entertainment and Devices division, sold $6.2 million of Microsoft
>>| stock just prior to announcing that Microsoft was going to have to
>>| extend XBox 360 warranties to three years because of extensive
>>| failures. The filings note that this was not part of any
>>| scheduled diversification or selling program; this was a
>>| conscious, unscheduled sale by the guy in charge of releasing
>>| news that could affect the value of Microsoft stock.
>>|
>>| [...]
>>|
>>| Insider trading is a very serious violation of the law; just
>>| ask Martha Stewart, who served five months in prison for
>>| avoiding losses of $43,000 through trades that just had suspicious
>>| timing (no insider trading was actually proven). This is $6.3
>>| million that went straight into Robbie Bach's pocket.
>> `----
>>
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...7_id.html?.v=1
>>
>> That's a crime, Erik. If you defend this behaviour, then you endorse crime.
>> Be careful.
>>
>
> Roy - you're wasting your time with Erik. He sold his soul decades ago.
> I doubt he'd even know how to behave ethically any more. He'll just yell and
> shout and abuse, and then go running back to the troll-feeders here, to
> continue to spout his off-topic and anti-charter corrupting diatribes.
>
> To look back at the allegorical Lord of the Rings, The One Ring is
> ultimate power, and yet it steadily corrupts all who come into contact
> with it. Erik is like a Gollum character, he's been in contact with the
> ring for so many years now he's forgotten the young, happy, innocent,
> ambitious and naive man he was so many years ago, he's now an embittered
> sociopathic, owned creature, who's pimped out onto the virtual streets of
> the internet to push a political position he probably once could've
> analysed, but long ago lost any independence of thought as the
> corruption eroded his ability to think.
>
> Killfile him.

He already is, but notice the subject line, which elevates score more than
plonks in KNode do (-50). I need to keep looking over the shoulder for slander
like this. Even Erik has resorted to unsubstantiated accusations, just like
the boss of his boss of his boss, Steve "I'm a nuclear bomb" Ballmer.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Reversi for Linux/Win32: http://othellomaster.com
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 2 2007-10-16 15:14 last=
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:47:21 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> He already is, but notice the subject line, which elevates score more than
> plonks in KNode do (-50). I need to keep looking over the shoulder for slander
> like this. Even Erik has resorted to unsubstantiated accusations, just like
> the boss of his boss of his boss, Steve "I'm a nuclear bomb" Ballmer.

Unsubstantiated accusations...

And calling me a criminal is substantiated?

Hypocrite.

Roy Schestowitz espoused:
> ____/ Mark Kent on Saturday 27 October 2007 09:49 : \____
>
>> Roy Schestowitz espoused:
>>> ____/ Erik Funkenbusch on Friday 26 October 2007 17:03 : \____
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:38:24 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By association, Erik is as criminal and corrupt as those whom he defends.
>>>>
>>>> You are going way too far there Roy. Calling people criminals is uncalled
>>>> for, and you should be ashamed of yourself. That is, if you had any shame.
>>>
>>> What a scummy man you are. Once again changing subject line to accuse
>>> people, eh...?
>>>
>>> Is bribery not a crime? Yes? Well, Microsoft bribed people for OOXML.
>>>
>>> To borrow a recent example, how about inside trading?
>>>
>>> Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>| MarketWatch.com reports that Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's
>>>| Entertainment and Devices division, sold $6.2 million of Microsoft
>>>| stock just prior to announcing that Microsoft was going to have to
>>>| extend XBox 360 warranties to three years because of extensive
>>>| failures. The filings note that this was not part of any
>>>| scheduled diversification or selling program; this was a
>>>| conscious, unscheduled sale by the guy in charge of releasing
>>>| news that could affect the value of Microsoft stock.
>>>|
>>>| [...]
>>>|
>>>| Insider trading is a very serious violation of the law; just
>>>| ask Martha Stewart, who served five months in prison for
>>>| avoiding losses of $43,000 through trades that just had suspicious
>>>| timing (no insider trading was actually proven). This is $6.3
>>>| million that went straight into Robbie Bach's pocket.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...7_id.html?.v=1
>>>
>>> That's a crime, Erik. If you defend this behaviour, then you endorse crime.
>>> Be careful.
>>>
>>
>> Roy - you're wasting your time with Erik. He sold his soul decades ago.
>> I doubt he'd even know how to behave ethically any more. He'll just yell and
>> shout and abuse, and then go running back to the troll-feeders here, to
>> continue to spout his off-topic and anti-charter corrupting diatribes.
>>
>> To look back at the allegorical Lord of the Rings, The One Ring is
>> ultimate power, and yet it steadily corrupts all who come into contact
>> with it. Erik is like a Gollum character, he's been in contact with the
>> ring for so many years now he's forgotten the young, happy, innocent,
>> ambitious and naive man he was so many years ago, he's now an embittered
>> sociopathic, owned creature, who's pimped out onto the virtual streets of
>> the internet to push a political position he probably once could've
>> analysed, but long ago lost any independence of thought as the
>> corruption eroded his ability to think.
>>
>> Killfile him.
>
> He already is, but notice the subject line, which elevates score more than
> plonks in KNode do (-50). I need to keep looking over the shoulder for slander
> like this. Even Erik has resorted to unsubstantiated accusations, just like
> the boss of his boss of his boss, Steve "I'm a nuclear bomb" Ballmer.
>

Ah, score such things down, then they won't work any more. He really
isn't worth the time. We have enough trollfeeders here who'll respond
to him, he doesn't need you.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

In article <5o99v4-hdk.ln1@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,
Mark Kent wrote:
> So what? ODF is an open standard - anyone can contribute to it.

Anyone can contribute if Sun approves. That's not "open".