Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux? - Linux

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Thread: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

  1. Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    The COLA minions seem to laud the EU for their diligence in corralling the
    Microsoft stampede, but is it keeping the customers in or out?

    Part of the agreement with the EU was for Microsoft substantially adjust the
    royalties charged for licensing their myriad patents on their
    intercommunications patents. That was seen as forcing MS into compliance,
    but it also seems to me that in doing this, the EU has officially recognized
    the validity of the patents themselves, no matter how high the price for a
    license. The GPL allows for zero payments and as long as they are non-zero
    with Microsoft, the size really doesn't matter. With Stallman on guard,
    they cannot be used in any case, so the payment hardly matters. The patent
    door is now shut more firmly and Linux is guaranteed to suffer from the
    condition.


  2. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?


    "amicus_curious" wrote in message
    news:4720e2f3$0$2919$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.c om...
    > The COLA minions seem to laud the EU for their diligence in corralling the
    > Microsoft stampede, but is it keeping the customers in or out?
    >
    > Part of the agreement with the EU was for Microsoft substantially adjust
    > the royalties charged for licensing their myriad patents on their
    > intercommunications patents. That was seen as forcing MS into compliance,
    > but it also seems to me that in doing this, the EU has officially
    > recognized the validity of the patents themselves, no matter how high the
    > price for a license. The GPL allows for zero payments and as long as they
    > are non-zero with Microsoft, the size really doesn't matter. With
    > Stallman on guard, they cannot be used in any case, so the payment hardly
    > matters. The patent door is now shut more firmly and Linux is guaranteed
    > to suffer from the condition.



    Here's a link another intersting take on the EU court decision that somebody
    here posted earlier.

    http://www.thebusiness.co.uk/news-an...-victory.thtml


    Basically it looks like this article is saying that this case is almost 10
    years old and the court was finally able to beat compliance out of Microsoft
    and force them to reveal some ancient inner workings of their software that
    are no longer relevant in todays world. The court also reaffirmed that
    "Windows dominates linux" and that Windows is thriving in European nations.

    So in the end the linux folk may have gotten a 'court victory' but that's
    about the only thing they've gotten out of it. Microsoft on the other hand
    gets to continue operating pretty much the same as before with a mild
    wrist-slap from something that's dragged on since 1998.





    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?


    amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    > The COLA minions seem to laud the EU for their diligence in corralling the
    > Microsoft stampede, but is it keeping the customers in or out?
    >
    > Part of the agreement with the EU was for Microsoft substantially adjust the
    > royalties charged for licensing their myriad patents on their
    > intercommunications patents. That was seen as forcing MS into compliance,
    > but it also seems to me that in doing this, the EU has officially recognized
    > the validity of the patents themselves, no matter how high the price for a
    > license. The GPL allows for zero payments and as long as they are non-zero
    > with Microsoft, the size really doesn't matter. With Stallman on guard,
    > they cannot be used in any case, so the payment hardly matters. The patent


    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9290318,00.htm
    (Red Hat voices concerns over Microsoft patent model)

    -----
    Angelo Basu, a competition law specialist at Pinsent Masons solicitors,
    told ZDNet.co.uk in an email that Microsoft's compliance with the ruling
    will mainly have a positive effect on the European software industry.

    The main impact on the industry will be to remove the uncertainty that
    would remain had Microsoft appealed the European Court of First
    Instance's ruling to the European Court of Justice, according to Basu.

    "Pending the appeal to the Court of First Instance, Microsoft took a
    tough line and sought to extract terms for interoperability information
    at a much higher rate than was acceptable to the Commission or
    competitors, and it might have been expected to carry on doing so
    pending a further appeal which could itself have taken many years to
    come to a final ruling," wrote Basu. "Now it appears that there will be
    clear terms on which Microsoft will license its information so that
    businesses can go back to developing and selling software, rather than
    fighting with Microsoft."

    Basu wrote that it is possible that Microsoft's decision will also send
    a signal to other IT businesses in a similar position to Microsoft that
    they ought to consider coming to a similar settlement with developers
    they may be in dispute with.

    The settlement will also have given the European Commission renewed
    confidence that it can take effective action against other companies
    which are reluctant to share interoperability information, or which put
    a high price on it, wrote Basu.

    The decision will also have a positive effect on European open-source
    developers, as Microsoft seems to be guaranteeing that it will not
    pursue developers for alleged patent infringements, but instead will
    concentrate on software distributors and end users, wrote Basu.

    "This is likely to be effective in removing the threat of litigation
    from the legions of independent open-source developers who would be
    least able to defend costly lawsuits and would therefore be most likely
    to be deterred from carrying on innovating and developing new products,"
    Basu wrote. Basu added that the decision will focus Microsoft's
    resources so that commercial developers and distributors who decide not
    to accept the agreed licensing terms will be put on notice that
    Microsoft will be able to pursue them.

    "As with the Commission's action against IBM in the 1980s, it is likely
    that the Commission will believe that this investigation and the
    remedies coming out of it should be a 'one time, last time' solution so
    that it will not need to revisit Microsoft's conduct," wrote Basu. "This
    suggests that, short of any egregious behaviour by Microsoft in a way
    which is not covered by the settlement, there will be little room left
    for distributors to argue to get more than what the Commission has
    extracted from Microsoft."
    -----

    :-)

    regards,
    alexander.

    --
    "The revolution might take significantly longer than anticipated."

    -- The GNU Monk Harald Welte

  4. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?


    "Alexander Terekhov" wrote in message
    news:4720EF1C.531D49C6@web.de...
    >
    > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9290318,00.htm
    > (Red Hat voices concerns over Microsoft patent model)



    Funny how Red Hat itself files for (and receives) patents but whines when
    somebody else does the same.






    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  5. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, amicus_curious

    wrote
    on Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:39:19 -0400
    <4720e2f3$0$2919$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>:
    > The COLA minions seem to laud the EU for their
    > diligence in corralling the Microsoft stampede,
    > but is it keeping the customers in or out?
    >
    > Part of the agreement with the EU was for Microsoft
    > substantially adjust the royalties charged for
    > licensing their myriad patents on their
    > intercommunications patents. That was seen as forcing
    > MS into compliance, but it also seems to me that
    > in doing this, the EU has officially recognized
    > the validity of the patents themselves, no matter
    > how high the price for a license. The GPL allows
    > for zero payments and as long as they are non-zero
    > with Microsoft, the size really doesn't matter.
    > With Stallman on guard, they cannot be used in any
    > case, so the payment hardly matters. The patent
    > door is now shut more firmly and Linux is guaranteed
    > to suffer from the condition.
    >


    Why says they cannot be used? It's not Stallman. It's the
    courts. In any event, software patents are here to stay.
    And they should be! The general idea is to encourage
    innovation, allow a head start on the competition, and
    incentive to develop a company, business, or market and
    create value before someone bigger swallows it.

    One might quibble as to individual patents (and a lot
    of them deserve to be quibbled over, apparently), but a
    patent must be recognized *worldwide*, or it's worthless.
    If the, say, Chinese were to ignore patent law, US
    manufacturing (what's left of it) will suffer needlessly
    (since the Chinese are notorious for copying ideas --
    though copying ideas is not limited to the Chinese, of
    course), especially since software is so easily duplicated
    (it takes little more than a computer, a burner/reader,
    some electrical power, and a stack of blanks).

    One might also quibble as to the length of the patent; the
    now-expired GIF patent was innovative in 1989, but PNGs
    arguably have better compression (RFC2083 was finalized
    8 years later, in March 1997). Fortunately, that patent
    (US#4558302) expired in 2003. Unfortunately, artifacts
    regarding PNG continue to exist in a certain browser,
    pre-7 anyway.

    Patents can also be bought and sold, of course. The
    worth of a patent during such a process is a negotiating
    point between the buyer (presumably, a holding company)
    and the seller (the inventor or another holding company).
    One might ask many questions as to what that price should
    be, and what options are available afterwards should a
    discrepancy between price and worth become obvious.

    What problem are we trying to solve here?

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #7878218:
    class C { private: virtual void stupid() = 0; };

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Geppetto Olivio belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > "amicus_curious" wrote in message
    > news:4720e2f3$0$2919$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.c om...
    >> The COLA minions seem to laud the EU for their diligence in corralling the
    >> Microsoft stampede, but is it keeping the customers in or out?
    >>
    >> Part of the agreement with the EU was for Microsoft substantially adjust
    >> the royalties charged for licensing their myriad patents on their
    >> intercommunications patents. That was seen as forcing MS into compliance,
    >> but it also seems to me that in doing this, the EU has officially
    >> recognized the validity of the patents themselves, no matter how high the
    >> price for a license. The GPL allows for zero payments and as long as they
    >> are non-zero with Microsoft, the size really doesn't matter. With
    >> Stallman on guard, they cannot be used in any case, so the payment hardly
    >> matters. The patent door is now shut more firmly and Linux is guaranteed
    >> to suffer from the condition.

    >
    > Here's a link another intersting take on the EU court decision that somebody
    > here posted earlier.
    >
    > http://www.thebusiness.co.uk/news-an...-victory.thtml
    >
    > Basically it looks like this article is saying that this case is almost 10
    > years old and the court was finally able to beat compliance out of Microsoft
    > and force them to reveal some ancient inner workings of their software that
    > are no longer relevant in todays world. The court also reaffirmed that
    > "Windows dominates linux" and that Windows is thriving in European nations.
    >
    > So in the end the linux folk may have gotten a 'court victory' but that's
    > about the only thing they've gotten out of it. Microsoft on the other hand
    > gets to continue operating pretty much the same as before with a mild
    > wrist-slap from something that's dragged on since 1998.


    Ain't it a shame?

    You hear about SanDisk suing 25 companies about patents?

    Somehow, I don't think OSS is the only thing that will suffer from this
    patent crap. In fact, OSS itself will suffer the least. Commercial
    companies will suffer more.

    As far as GPL software goes? My prediction is that there will be two
    parallel worlds using the very same software (for the most part): the
    commercial world and the free world.

    --
    Tux rox!

  7. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Geppetto Olivio belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > "Alexander Terekhov" wrote in message
    > news:4720EF1C.531D49C6@web.de...
    >>
    >> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9290318,00.htm
    >> (Red Hat voices concerns over Microsoft patent model)

    >
    > Funny how Red Hat itself files for (and receives) patents but whines when
    > somebody else does the same.


    Funny how they all whine when they sue each other.

    --
    Tux rox!

  8. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Geppetto Olivio belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    >> As far as GPL software goes? My prediction is that there will be two
    >> parallel worlds using the very same software (for the most part): the
    >> commercial world and the free world.

    >
    > I'll call my psychic friend and see what she thinks.


    Is she your puppet, Geppetto? Are the you Puppet Master?

    --
    Sox rox!

  9. Re: Has Steve managed to mousetrap Linux?

    amicus_curious wrote:

    > That was seen as forcing MS into compliance, but it also seems to me that in doing this, the EU has officially recognized the validity of the patents themselves ..


    You know something, I think you are right and the decision is going to
    turn out to be worthless. better avoid the MICROS~1 protocols
    alltogether ...

    http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic....70928012238284

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