Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux - Linux ; ____/ [H]omer on Friday 19 October 2007 05:47 : \____ > Dumping Vista - A divorce with a happy ending > > .---- > | I just dumped Vista for Linux and my family no longer wants to > | ...

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Thread: Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

  1. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    ____/ [H]omer on Friday 19 October 2007 05:47 : \____

    > Dumping Vista - A divorce with a happy ending
    >
    > .----
    > | I just dumped Vista for Linux and my family no longer wants to
    > | return my new laptop.
    > `----
    >
    >

    http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/madgr...y-ending-19844

    Vista disappointment, bug, and fiasco stories are so many and so common (even
    those publicised on the Web every hour of the day) that they have almost
    become a bore. It's no longer a challenge to show that Vista is innately
    broken, but every now and then, Slashdot will pick another classic example.
    Most recently it was the 'out of memory'/copy bug, which I think was spotted
    about 8 months ago. There are many bugs that are associated with simple I/O,
    not even scheduling or more cosmetic things.

    Vista gets it wrong even where crucial data -- the user's bread and butters --
    is concerned. The EULA says it's all part of the deal and Microsoft holds no
    liability. It figures.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Reversi for free: http://othellomaster.com
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    08:20:09 up 2 days, 17:06, 3 users, load average: 3.65, 2.29, 1.90
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  2. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > Vista gets it wrong even where crucial data -- the user's bread and
    > butters -- is concerned. The EULA says it's all part of the deal and
    > Microsoft holds no liability. It figures.



    Only thing that figures is Roy "On Dad's Dole Forever - And Lovin' It!"
    Schestowitz thinks if he sleazily "forgets" to mention the GPL everyone else
    will forget it's liability copouts are virtually identical to the EULAs':


    15. Disclaimer of Warranty.

    THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY
    APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT
    HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY
    OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
    THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
    PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM
    IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF
    ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

    16. Limitation of Liability.

    IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING
    WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS
    THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY
    GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE
    USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF
    DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD
    PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS),
    EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
    SUCH DAMAGES.

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt




  3. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > 15. Disclaimer of Warranty.
    >
    > THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY
    > APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT
    > HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY
    > OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
    > THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
    > PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM
    > IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF
    > ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
    >
    > 16. Limitation of Liability.
    >
    > IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING
    > WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS
    > THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY
    > GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE
    > USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF
    > DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD
    > PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS),
    > EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
    > SUCH DAMAGES.
    >
    > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt


    Ah, yes, very sensible for free software that can be copied and modified
    by anybody at any time.

    Thanks for the clarification, DFS. You're a great GPL advocate!

    --
    Tux rox!

  4. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    DFS did eloquently scribble:
    > Linonut wrote:


    >>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt

    >>
    >> Ah, yes, very sensible for free software that can be copied and
    >> modified by anybody at any time.


    > Very sensible for any complex product used in untold and unknown scenarios.


    > And free has nothing to do with it, you paid Windows developer you
    > Vendors offering paid distros don't offer liability protection either.


    Why should they
    You're paying for the packaging, the support and the media/books/etc.
    The software is available free. All you're paying for is the convenience and
    support.

    How much would you recommend the GPL licensor pay if the software breaks?
    The cost to the customer? as in, a full refund perhaps? Fine, 0 paid, 0
    returned. Simple.

    With microsoft you're paying to use the software.
    And microsoft shares that clause. Doesn't it doofy.
    Are you going to start attacking microsoft which is a COMMERCIAL company?
    for not abiding by any warranties?

    And they limit their liability to how much? $5 or something silly isn't it?
    Even if you paid $600 for their Vista PoS?
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
    | | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
    |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
    | in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
    | Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  5. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    ____/ [H]omer on Friday 19 October 2007 15:47 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
    >
    >> Ah, yes, very sensible for free software that can be copied and
    >> modified by anybody at any time.
    >>
    >> Thanks for the clarification, DFS. You're a great GPL advocate!

    >
    > He's not the sharpest stick in the woodpile, is he?
    >
    > Tip for DooFy, Microsoft /owns/ Windows ... they are liable for the
    > products they /license/ to other, regardless of what they'd like to
    > disclaim.
    >
    > Who /owns/ a GPL program?
    >
    > Everyone.
    >
    > Who is liable?
    >
    > Everyone ... and therefore no one.
    >
    > It's copy*right* versus copy*left*. Subtle, but important. Obviously too
    > subtle for DooFy's rather blunt wits.


    Parable:

    With Microsoft Windows, user borrows pegleg, loses it, and gets kicked up the
    arse (oWned).

    With Free software, user builds leg of steel and kicks whatever he or she
    wants. He or she controls his/her own foot and see if it messes up with one's
    own physical health.

    Okay, poor example... what were we talking about again? Oh! Files being lost.
    Well, with source code, one can mend and report a bug. Would you trust a bunch
    of underpaid guys in closed cubicles or an army of curious GNU developers and
    a large number of Linux companies that have inspected the code and maintained
    it separately from the whole (with collaboration)?

    It was said last year (WSJ, IIRC) that Microsoft build an O/S like spaghetti.
    It's like a bunch of codeslingers toying to stick bits of code together at the
    90th minute, which is why Longhorn (Vista desktop) needed a "reboot"
    (Ballmer's words). Guess what? The incarnation from 2005 needed yet _another_
    reboot because Vista is clearly broken.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | GNU is Not Universal (begin recursion)
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    run-level 2 2007-10-16 15:14 last=
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine

  6. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer

    wrote
    on Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:47:19 +0100
    :
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
    >
    >> Ah, yes, very sensible for free software that can be copied and
    >> modified by anybody at any time.
    >>
    >> Thanks for the clarification, DFS. You're a great GPL advocate!

    >
    > He's not the sharpest stick in the woodpile, is he?
    >
    > Tip for DooFy, Microsoft /owns/ Windows ... they are liable for the
    > products they /license/ to other, regardless of what they'd like to
    > disclaim.
    >
    > Who /owns/ a GPL program?
    >
    > Everyone.


    I have my doubts on that, mostly because not everyone
    is a code modifier. However, everyone is a *potential*
    code modifier, so one could argue both ways. It gets even
    more fun when person A writes a block of code, and person
    B submits a patch that discards person A's code with his
    own block that performs a different (and hopefully better)
    function. Who owns what?

    Nevertheless, such near-anarchy, which is at least
    manageable with a good code management solution (CVS is
    fair; not sure about Subversion as I've not worked with
    it much -- and both of course are freeware) produces some
    interesting, and as it turns out high-quality, products.

    Linux code reminds me of salt-water taffy; however much
    one pulls at it, it tends to retain its connectivity,
    though it might stretch quite a fair distance.

    Microsoft code appears much more brittle -- in this
    metaphor, a large lollipop. (Also known, as it happens,
    by the colloquialism "sucker"...insert your own joke
    here. :-) )

    Were Linux code bug-riddled garbage (which clearly
    it isn't!), Microsoft would probably see no point in
    (allegedly) astroturfing such areas as COLA, and trying
    to enforce various DRM issues and stealthy upgrades.

    In a way, astroturfing is a win; it acknowledges we're
    a viable threat to their hegemony.

    >
    > Who is liable?
    >
    > Everyone ... and therefore no one.


    A possibility that Microsoft may already have considered.
    Presumably, someone tried to sneak a fast one past Linus
    et al, though I'm having trouble finding it at the moment.

    (IIRC, it was along the lines of "= 0" as opposed to "== 0"
    in an if() statement -- a common enough issue in C.)

    >
    > It's copy*right* versus copy*left*. Subtle, but important.
    > Obviously too subtle for DooFy's rather blunt wits.
    >


    His loss. Presumably, freeware *is* protected by copyright
    laws, but the license under which those laws and the
    freeware operate allows free modification for personal use,
    and almost-free modification for general publication/use
    (the main issues appear to be giving proper credit where
    credit's due, and including the source and license in the
    distributed copy).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Windows. Because it's not a question of if.
    It's a question of when.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  7. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > DFS did eloquently scribble:


    DFS is an idiot.

    I give up on him.

    --
    Tux rox!

  8. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Linonut wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this bit o'
    > wisdom:
    >
    >> DFS did eloquently scribble:

    >
    > DFS is an idiot.


    I found that out a long time ago.

    > I give up on him.


    So should everyone, IMO. Just ignore the jerk.

    --
    Operating systems: FreeBSD 6.2, PC-BSD 1.4,
    Testing: FreeBSD 7.0
    Linux systems: Debian 4.0, PCLinuxOS 2007,
    Kubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy"

  9. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Linonut wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    > bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> DFS did eloquently scribble:

    >
    > DFS is an idiot.
    >
    > I give up on him.


    Lemme hear a plonk!




  10. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    DFS :
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    >> bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>> DFS did eloquently scribble:

    >>
    >> DFS is an idiot.
    >>
    >> I give up on him.

    >
    > Lemme hear a plonk!


    If you were an ice cream flavor you'd be pralines and
    dick!


    --
    You can never trust a woman; she may be true to you.

    http://www.websterscafe.com

  11. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Handover Phist wrote:
    > DFS :
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    >>> bit o' wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>> DFS did eloquently scribble:
    >>>
    >>> DFS is an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> I give up on him.

    >>
    >> Lemme hear a plonk!

    >
    > If you were an ice cream flavor you'd be pralines and
    > dick!


    Asphinctersays 'What'?






  12. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    >> bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>> DFS did eloquently scribble:

    >>
    >> DFS is an idiot.
    >>
    >> I give up on him.

    >
    > Lemme hear a plonk!


    Nah. Just going to take a vacation from ya.

    --
    Tux rox!

  13. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    DFS did eloquently scribble:
    > Handover Phist wrote:
    >> DFS :
    >>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    >>>> bit o' wisdom:
    >>>>
    >>>>> DFS did eloquently scribble:
    >>>>
    >>>> DFS is an idiot.
    >>>>
    >>>> I give up on him.
    >>>
    >>> Lemme hear a plonk!

    >>
    >> If you were an ice cream flavor you'd be pralines and
    >> dick!


    > Asphinctersays 'What'?


    Yes, it did, didn't it?
    --
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
    |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
    | in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
    | Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  14. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    William Poaster espoused:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this bit o'
    >> wisdom:
    >>
    >>> DFS did eloquently scribble:

    >>
    >> DFS is an idiot.

    >
    > I found that out a long time ago.
    >
    >> I give up on him.

    >
    > So should everyone, IMO. Just ignore the jerk.
    >


    Feeding the trolls is a waste of time and bandwidth.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  15. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Linonut espoused:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this
    >>> bit o' wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>> DFS did eloquently scribble:
    >>>
    >>> DFS is an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> I give up on him.

    >>
    >> Lemme hear a plonk!

    >
    > Nah. Just going to take a vacation from ya.
    >


    Say, 30 years?

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  16. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 23 October 2007 13:30 : \____

    > William Poaster espoused:
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this bit o'
    >>> wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>> DFS did eloquently scribble:
    >>>
    >>> DFS is an idiot.

    >>
    >> I found that out a long time ago.
    >>
    >>> I give up on him.

    >>
    >> So should everyone, IMO. Just ignore the jerk.
    >>

    >
    > Feeding the trolls is a waste of time and bandwidth.


    It's also clutter, which is why filtering can be more fruitful than just
    ignoring.

    It's rather amazing to see that almost nobody trolls the Windows and Mac
    advocacy groups. Linux gets all the attention (people who are fearful). That
    ought to be a compliment and confirmation of the fact that Linux is bound to
    dominate the desktop as well, eventually. It already dominates many other
    areas, but it's hard to track usage of something which is free and not
    controlled by companies that unleash many press releases and prod journalists.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Viruses to Linux are like cancer to a shark
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 126 total, 1 running, 124 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

  17. Re: [News] Another Microsoft victim dumps Vista for Linux

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 23 October 2007 13:30 : \____
    >
    >> William Poaster espoused:
    >>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, spike1@freenet.co.uk belched out this bit o'
    >>>> wisdom:
    >>>>
    >>>>> DFS did eloquently scribble:
    >>>>
    >>>> DFS is an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> I found that out a long time ago.
    >>>
    >>>> I give up on him.
    >>>
    >>> So should everyone, IMO. Just ignore the jerk.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Feeding the trolls is a waste of time and bandwidth.

    >
    > It's also clutter, which is why filtering can be more fruitful than just
    > ignoring.
    >
    > It's rather amazing to see that almost nobody trolls the Windows and Mac
    > advocacy groups. Linux gets all the attention (people who are fearful). That
    > ought to be a compliment and confirmation of the fact that Linux is bound to
    > dominate the desktop as well, eventually.


    You're quite right, it says very much about the difference between the
    philosophies of the free software world versus those of the proprietary
    world. The proprietary folk apparently see nothing wrong with invading
    a space, polluting it with off-topic offensive anti-charter material in
    support of their paymasters and philosophies.

    You don't see the free software folk doing the same, thankfully.

    > It already dominates many other
    > areas, but it's hard to track usage of something which is free and not
    > controlled by companies that unleash many press releases and prod journalists.
    >


    There is still very much the view that success can be bought. In spite
    of the constant growth of free software over the last 15 years plus,
    there are *still* some who think it can be stopped with negative press.

    Those people who believe this are the ones who, in my view, are most
    living in the past, or "in denial", as Cosmopolitan would put it.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

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