Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It. - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It. - Linux ; HEMI-Powered wrote: >I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My nephew >and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a hobby and >will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild. From time-to- >time, ...

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Thread: Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

  1. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    HEMI-Powered wrote:

    >I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My nephew
    >and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a hobby and
    >will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild. From time-to-
    >time, he tries to interest me in leaving the Dark Side and
    >joining the Force. So, I ask him the same question: is Linux
    >REALLY ready for prime time on the desktop? What I mean is, will
    >ALL my software run,


    You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do you
    think that's reasonable?

    >my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
    >at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie again.
    >After lobbying me about open source, he eventually says,
    >sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many HW driver
    >issues, some things can only be done command line, GUI still
    >quirky, etc."


    Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality, none of
    those things are real and significant issues.

    >I don't know what version he's using now, at one
    >time it was Red Hat.
    >
    >I am going to just continue to do what doctors call "watchful
    >waiting"


    You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch without
    learning some new ways of doing things.


  2. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....

    >>I've been quietly watching the Linux debate for years. My
    >>nephew and PC builder really likes it but he views it as a
    >>hobby and will sit up all night doing a full system rebuild.
    >>From time-to- time, he tries to interest me in leaving the
    >>Dark Side and joining the Force. So, I ask him the same
    >>question: is Linux REALLY ready for prime time on the desktop?
    >>What I mean is, will ALL my software run,

    >
    > You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
    > you think that's reasonable?


    Gee, hadn't really thought about it. Don't know if that is
    reasonable or not. Wait! I did think about it! And, I've been
    reading about it for years! As best I can tell, the people who
    are high advocates of Linux seem to fall into two categories:

    1) those who have forsaken ALL Windows apps and ALL Windows
    drivers and ALL Windows utilities and ALL Windows anything, used
    the equivalent Open Source stuff (which I do not at all
    understand), and they believe that Linux works just fine.

    2) those who want for good, bad, or indifferent reasons NOT to
    have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the apps,
    utilities, and hardware they have when they move from the Dark
    Side and join the Force. these people appear to believe that
    Linux does not work at all.

    Now, I don't know if there are any middle of the road positions
    between those 2 extremes, but I am not about to try - YET. When -
    IF? - Linux CAN run my apps and CAN support my HW, I MAY create a
    second boot sector and give it a whirl.

    Honestly, Chris, the main reason I say very little when Linux
    comes up in a number of NGs I visit is precisely because I cannot
    detect a clear consensus on its usability. As best I can
    analogize, it is like watching the Democrats and Republicans
    argue. It is often impossible to even tell they're talking about
    the same thing, but it is crystal clear that they BOTH cannot be
    right.

    So, back to your query? No, again, I do not know what is or what
    is not "reasonable". I don't even have a good definition of
    "reasonable" in this context. The jury is still out on Vista, but
    then, it is a rather new product and there's bound to be some
    bumps and grinds for the early adopters. But, in looking in on
    thee Vista NGs, it appears to be at least a feasible O/S, abeit
    not one I want to try. Next, I can look in on the XP NGs, where
    people talk about a very mature product and there are STILL bumps
    and grinds. That causes me heartburn trying to rationalize all of
    this. To wit:

    1) Win XP doesn't always work for all of the people all of the
    time. Is it reasonable to expect that it should? Don't know
    2) Win Vista appears to work for a majority of users with more
    problems than XP but at least people can work, but it does have
    serious issues. Since it doesn't work for all the people all of
    the time, is it reasonable to expect that it should. Don't know
    3) Linux appears to work well or even very well for some
    percentage of users, work mediocre for some other percentage of
    users, and poorly/not at all for a 3rd percentage. I don't know
    what the percentages are, they change from day to day. Since
    Linux does not work all the time for all the people, is it
    reasonable that it should, which was your question to me? Don't
    know that either!

    I'm not pulling your chain, Chris, I REALLY don't know!

    >>my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
    >>at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie
    >>again. After lobbying me about open source, he eventually
    >>says, sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many
    >>HW driver issues, some things can only be done command line,
    >>GUI still quirky, etc."

    >
    > Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality,
    > none of those things are real and significant issues.


    Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that. I know the capabilities of
    my nephew across old DOS, new DOS, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win
    2000, Win XP, and just starting to look at Vista. He has a fair
    but not complete knowledge of generic Unix. He APPEARS to be a
    rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have more
    than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does wrt
    Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
    judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
    slender data, I'm not sure it is wise to make a statement like
    "...is without a clue". Perhaps you can see that your comment is
    insulting to me, as it suggests that I also do not have a clue,
    else I'd not be defending my nephew that you've already
    condemned.

    >>I am going to just continue to do what doctors call "watchful
    >>waiting"

    >
    > You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch
    > without learning some new ways of doing things.
    >

    I already said I am not trying to pull your chain. I will simply
    repeat my philosophy and mantra: a PC is to me nothing more than
    an incredibly powerful adding machine with a slick looking
    interface. If you boil it down, all a PC can really do is crunch
    ones and zeros (yes, yes, yes, I know about 32 and 64-bit words,
    HW floating point, and the like). Yet, my PC is now, and has been
    for years in older versions, an incredibly productive tool to me
    at home for my hobbies and for some 20 years at work until I
    retired about 6 years ago.

    Let me finish my "rant" with this analogy: while I am certainly
    open to trying new things, e.g., a completely different category
    of vehicle than I have ever driven before, I do have the somewhat
    old-fashioned and romantic idea that it will have at least 4
    wheels, brakes, an engine and transmission, a steering wheel, and
    it will more or less get me from one place to another. That has
    been true since PRIOR to the Model T to today's wonders of
    technocracy. That is definitely NOT true of a gut-wrenching
    change from one philosophy of O/S to another.

    So, if it is OK with you, I'd like to do two things right now:
    stop annoying others in this NG by arguing about things I know
    nothing about,i.e., Linux, and keep on a waitin' until /I/ think
    that it can be at least as productive for me as XP.

    Thank you for your views and observations and have a great week!

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

  3. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.


    "HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
    news:Xns99C3E8AF3E092ReplyScoreID@140.99.99.130...

    >> You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
    >> you think that's reasonable?

    >
    > Gee, hadn't really thought about it. Don't know if that is
    > reasonable or not. Wait! I did think about it! And, I've been
    > reading about it for years! As best I can tell, the people who
    > are high advocates of Linux seem to fall into two categories:
    >
    > 1) those who have forsaken ALL Windows apps and ALL Windows
    > drivers and ALL Windows utilities and ALL Windows anything, used
    > the equivalent Open Source stuff (which I do not at all
    > understand), and they believe that Linux works just fine.
    >
    > 2) those who want for good, bad, or indifferent reasons NOT to
    > have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the apps,
    > utilities, and hardware they have when they move from the Dark
    > Side and join the Force. these people appear to believe that
    > Linux does not work at all.


    There is the third kind that use open source applications on windows (and
    why not, they work fine).
    I have yet to find a useful open source application that doesn't run on
    windows but YMMV.

    Linux is a *tiny* part of open source but some of them shout a lot
    (and usually aren't talking about Linux anyway).



  4. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    HEMI-Powered wrote:

    >chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    >>
    >> You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do
    >> you think that's reasonable?

    >
    >(big snip)
    >
    >I'm not pulling your chain, Chris, I REALLY don't know!


    Well, it's not reasonable. Some people are going to have some apps
    which they like and that only run under Windows. OTOH, many people
    will be satisfied with the Linux equivalent "main" applications, and
    don't have any "oddball" Windows apps that they cannot live without.

    May this involve some compromise? Sure. But there's the upside of
    low/free cost, and improved security.

    >>>my HD such as printer and scanner work, etc.
    >>>at all, or must I roll up my sleeves and become a techie
    >>>again. After lobbying me about open source, he eventually
    >>>says, sheepishly, "no, it's isn't ready quite yet, too many
    >>>HW driver issues, some things can only be done command line,
    >>>GUI still quirky, etc."

    >>
    >> Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality,
    >> none of those things are real and significant issues.

    >
    >He APPEARS to be a
    >rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have more
    >than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does wrt
    >Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
    >judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
    >slender data,


    Well, maybe you mis-quoted him, but the above quotations are highly
    flawed.

    Most people will not encounter "HW driver issues" if they select their
    HW with Linux support in mind. And no, for most people, that's not a
    big "drawback" - it's not like Linux-friendly hardware is hard to find
    or extra expensive.

    The fact the "some" things can only be done via command line" should
    not bother anyone, either. Very few things, IF any, on a new
    installation, MAY require typing on a command line. See that big
    thing in front of y our monitot? It's called a keyboard. It's there
    for a reason. It won't bite you.

    And "GUI still quirky"? What the hell is that suppose to mean? It's
    no more "quirky" than Windows is, often less. Different is not the
    same as worse.

    >> You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch
    >> without learning some new ways of doing things.

    >
    >(snip car analogy)
    >
    >That is definitely NOT true of a gut-wrenching
    >change from one philosophy of O/S to another.


    Linux has essentially the same functionality as Windows, so excuse me
    if I say your analogy is false. Learning some new ways of doing
    things need not be "gut-wrenching".

    >Thank you for your views and observations and have a great week!


    Burn yourself a couple live CD's and try them, instead of relying on
    your nephew's opinions.


  5. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....

    >>> Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In
    >>> reality, none of those things are real and significant
    >>> issues.

    >>
    >>He APPEARS to be a
    >>rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have
    >>more than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does
    >>wrt Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
    >>judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
    >>slender data,

    >
    > Well, maybe you mis-quoted him, but the above quotations are
    > highly flawed.


    Chris, I neither want to pick a fight for no good reason with you nor take on and
    maybe insult my nephew. Right now, I am in lurk/watchful waiting mode and not
    serious enough to bug my nephew.

    Again, please try to understand. I am 60, want to do useful work and not play with
    an O/S and try to find software that I like that works and also get my older HW to
    work. I have health issues that sap my energy and greatly reduce my ability to
    withstand frustration, and I have FAR more important things to do right now.
    Again, no insult meant to you or anyone on either side of the Linux debate, it
    just isn't for me. So, if you're trying to convince me, please understand you're
    digging a dry well.

    > Most people will not encounter "HW driver issues" if they
    > select their HW with Linux support in mind. And no, for most
    > people, that's not a big "drawback" - it's not like
    > Linux-friendly hardware is hard to find or extra expensive.
    >
    > The fact the "some" things can only be done via command line"
    > should not bother anyone, either. Very few things, IF any, on
    > a new installation, MAY require typing on a command line. See
    > that big thing in front of y our monitot? It's called a
    > keyboard. It's there for a reason. It won't bite you.
    >
    > And "GUI still quirky"? What the hell is that suppose to
    > mean? It's no more "quirky" than Windows is, often less.
    > Different is not the same as worse.


    I obviously DO do old-fashioned "command line" things in Win XP, but only when I
    absolutely must. Again, please try to understand that my keyboard is for typing
    letters and for corresponding with people on Usenet, as now. It is NOT for me to
    revert to the DOS days. That's the whole idea behind the GUI revolution that
    became minimally usable at Win 3.1 and more reasonable with Win 95/98, but really
    didn't become stable - for me - until XP. Sorry, but I'm not in the mood for
    learning Unix-style command line strings and switches in the best tradition of DOS
    4.0.
    >
    > Linux has essentially the same functionality as Windows, so
    > excuse me if I say your analogy is false. Learning some new
    > ways of doing things need not be "gut-wrenching".


    Chris, I am very happy for you that you are happy with Linux. What got me
    embroiled in this "debate" was the OP's subject line - "Linux just sucks" - which
    would appear at least for a first glance to indicate that not everyone is anywhere
    near as happy as you are. That's Okey, Dokey, as hardly everyone is a happy camper
    right now with Vista. Some folks were forced into Vista because they bought a new
    PC. Some were duped into upgraded by the MS marketing machine, some are people
    that just like to have the latest of anything, and some who did a deep dive,
    decided Vista was for them, and made a conscious decision to buy it. In ANY of
    those categories, as best I can observe in lurking in the Vista NGs is that there
    are plenty of problems. But then, after all these years, there's still problems
    with XP.

    I'll leave you with this quote: "better the devil you know than the devil you
    don't know", meaning, I know, understand, and am pretty satisfied with XP Pro SP2,
    and not at all willing to buy a Mac, upgrade or clean install Vista OR even dual-
    boot Linux. It just isn't in the cards for me. Again, as I have said a number of
    times, I take nothing away from people who like Linux, such as you. Or my nephew,
    whether he his elevator goes all the way to the top or not, he likes it.

    >>Thank you for your views and observations and have a great
    >>week!

    >
    > Burn yourself a couple live CD's and try them, instead of
    > relying on your nephew's opinions.
    >

    Chris, Chris, Chris, are you like a religious evangelist who goes around Bible in
    hand trying to convert pagans to Christianity? Why on God's Green Earth would I
    spend ANY time other than typing a few replies to you? I am just NOT going to go
    to Linux any time soon, maybe not for years and years, maybe never. Nothing you
    say, anybody says including my nephew whether he is sane or not is going to change
    my mind right now. XP works. I am satisfied.

    Gotta run, the Republican presidential candidates debate is on, far more important
    right now than my PC.

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

  6. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    HEMI-Powered wrote:

    > It is NOT for me to revert to the DOS days.


    Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.


  7. Re: Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

    > HEMI-Powered wrote:
    >
    >> It is NOT for me to revert to the DOS days.

    >
    > Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.
    >
    >

    I'm trolling no one. YOU are a total mental defective in arguing a
    case for a dozen posts that you cannot possibly win. Why don't you
    spend your energy on making your **** Linux do what you like and
    leave me alone. In short, I am no longer going to reply to your
    mind numbing stupid arguments. You can either plonk or ignore me in
    future, but I'm outta here.

    Now, to any normal people wondering about whether Ubandu or
    whatever Linux is or is not a viable alternative to Windows
    anything, I will certainly read your rational comments on either
    side of the controversy. We only learn by hearing new things; where
    I draw the line is when learning turns into some sort of activity
    where I might say is over-zealousness.

    To everyone else, have a very pleasant week.

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

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