Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>> - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>> - Linux ; On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:32:13 +0000, John King wrote: > Linux advocates need to understand that for average Joe, Linux needs to > offer something so far superior to Microsoft that it is worth giving up > all the ...

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Thread: Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

  1. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:32:13 +0000, John King wrote:

    > Linux advocates need to understand that for average Joe, Linux needs to
    > offer something so far superior to Microsoft that it is worth giving up
    > all the software he already owns, learning a new system, finding a
    > suitable Linux version and switching.


    Average Joe always finds that, once he has been soaked by Microsoft, he is
    then dumped as deliberate obsolescence renders his system out of date.

    As someone once said, you can fool some of the people all of the time,
    and even all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the
    people all of the time.

    And by now enough people have been fooled by Microsoft not to fall for it
    any longer. So they are voting with their feet.

  2. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:18:21 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:32:13 +0000, John King wrote:
    >
    >> Linux advocates need to understand that for average Joe, Linux needs to
    >> offer something so far superior to Microsoft that it is worth giving up
    >> all the software he already owns, learning a new system, finding a
    >> suitable Linux version and switching.

    >
    > Average Joe always finds that, once he has been soaked by Microsoft, he
    > is then dumped as deliberate obsolescence renders his system out of
    > date.
    >
    > As someone once said, you can fool some of the people all of the time,
    > and even all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of
    > the people all of the time.
    >
    > And by now enough people have been fooled by Microsoft not to fall for
    > it any longer. So they are voting with their feet.


    I would say somewhat true except for the fact that Microsoft has had a
    history of providing garbage software and yet people still have not left.
    Some may have, but the majority have stayed with Microsoft.

    Windows ME was a mess.
    People stayed.
    Windows XP when first released was a mess.
    People stayed.
    Microsoft Office has had a mixed history.
    People have stayed.

    Which brings us to Vista which people are calling "son of Windows ME".
    Many troubles with that OS and a grand time for Linux to take over yet
    it's not happening.

    The bottom line is that Linux and better yet, Openoffice is free (and
    that works with Windows as well) and yet people still stay with Windows
    and Microsoft Office.

    Why?

    --

    John King
    beerking59@oohay.com
    "Just Say No To DRM"

  3. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However -------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:31:50 +0000, John King wrote:

    > Windows ME was a mess.
    > People stayed.
    > Windows XP when first released was a mess.
    > People stayed.
    > Microsoft Office has had a mixed history.
    > People have stayed.
    >
    > Which brings us to Vista which people are calling "son of Windows ME".
    > Many troubles with that OS and a grand time for Linux to take over yet
    > it's not happening.
    >
    > The bottom line is that Linux and better yet, Openoffice is free (and
    > that works with Windows as well) and yet people still stay with Windows
    > and Microsoft Office.
    >
    > Why?


    Ignorance, inertia, the fact that most other people they know, perhaps
    everyone they know, is using Windows. They're familiar with Windows. They
    don't know about Linux, or have heard it's difficult, they dojn't know how
    to install an OS, don't realsie it's not that hard, have no idea how to
    back up their data and are afraid to lose it, are lazy, or just don't
    care, or they can't do without certain apps that aren't available with
    Linux.

    In spite of all that, though, some people do decide to ditch Windopws for
    Linux. Enough to keep several commercial companies in business, and allow
    for several hundred distros to exist.

    IMO, it's not about Linux taking over, but about Linux providing a good,
    viable alternative for those who want one.

    --
    Kier


  4. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:31:50 +0000, John King wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:18:21 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:32:13 +0000, John King wrote:
    >>
    >>> Linux advocates need to understand that for average Joe, Linux needs
    >>> to offer something so far superior to Microsoft that it is worth
    >>> giving up all the software he already owns, learning a new system,
    >>> finding a suitable Linux version and switching.

    >>
    >> Average Joe always finds that, once he has been soaked by Microsoft, he
    >> is then dumped as deliberate obsolescence renders his system out of
    >> date.
    >>
    >> As someone once said, you can fool some of the people all of the time,
    >> and even all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of
    >> the people all of the time.
    >>
    >> And by now enough people have been fooled by Microsoft not to fall for
    >> it any longer. So they are voting with their feet.

    >
    > I would say somewhat true except for the fact that Microsoft has had a
    > history of providing garbage software and yet people still have not
    > left. Some may have, but the majority have stayed with Microsoft.
    >
    > Windows ME was a mess.
    > People stayed.
    > Windows XP when first released was a mess. People stayed.
    > Microsoft Office has had a mixed history. People have stayed.
    >
    > Which brings us to Vista which people are calling "son of Windows ME".
    > Many troubles with that OS and a grand time for Linux to take over yet
    > it's not happening.
    >
    > The bottom line is that Linux and better yet, Openoffice is free (and
    > that works with Windows as well) and yet people still stay with Windows
    > and Microsoft Office.
    >
    > Why?


    Monopoly Power.
    Inertia.
    People want what everyone else wants.
    Microsoft hasn't introduced validation to Office yet.



    --
    Rick

  5. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:31:50 +0000, John King wrote:

    > Windows ME was a mess.
    > People stayed.
    > Windows XP when first released was a mess.
    > People stayed.


    In those days, people still believed in Microsoft and had not experienced
    being dumped.

    But this issue today is that users of perfectly good Microsoft systems
    such as Windows 98SE and Windows 2000 have been dumped by their deliberate
    obsolescence system.

    As a former Windows 98SE user I thought it was criminal of them to dump
    me, but now I have an alternative.

    And so does every former Microsoft user.

    And we know that anyone who uses Microsoft in future is, quite frankly, a
    mug because they don't give a **** about their end users.

  6. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:36:42 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:31:50 +0000, John King wrote:
    >
    >> Windows ME was a mess.
    >> People stayed.
    >> Windows XP when first released was a mess. People stayed.

    >
    > In those days, people still believed in Microsoft and had not
    > experienced being dumped.
    >
    > But this issue today is that users of perfectly good Microsoft systems
    > such as Windows 98SE and Windows 2000 have been dumped by their
    > deliberate obsolescence system.
    >
    > As a former Windows 98SE user I thought it was criminal of them to dump
    > me, but now I have an alternative.
    >
    > And so does every former Microsoft user.
    >
    > And we know that anyone who uses Microsoft in future is, quite frankly,
    > a mug because they don't give a **** about their end users.


    But still, even with Vista orphaning hardware and software users are
    STILL sticking with Windows just like they did with Windows ME when it
    was so unstable.

    As for dumping, you had better take a look at Suse and Redhat and see how
    often they stop supporting various versions of Linux.
    It's far more frequent than you might think.

    The biggest reason for not using Linux IMHO is the fact that it's free
    and yet has virtually zero desktop market share.
    By what metric you ask?

    Look around.
    Go to your local college and see.
    Unless you happen to walk into MIT or Caltech chances are you are going
    to see Windows and Mac everywhere.
    Go to the bookstore and see for yourself.
    Why are people paying, even student rate, $95.00 for Office when
    OpenOffice (for Windows) is free and students are typically poor?

    There *is* a reason for this.

    Again, I say if Microsoft offered Vista of Office for free there would be
    riots in the streets.

    Why so much interest for products that *this group*
    comp.os.linux.advocacy keep claiming are dying/dead?

    Why?


    --

    John King
    beerking59@oohay.com
    "Just Say No To DRM"

  7. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:56:09 +0000, John King wrote:

    > But still, even with Vista orphaning hardware and software users are
    > STILL sticking with Windows just like they did with Windows ME when it
    > was so unstable.


    No, they ain't.

    IN the days of ME there was no real alternative.

    Nowadays there is, and people are not sticking with Windows any longer.

    The only reason for thinking that they might be is that new systems are
    invariably sold with pre-installed Windows.

    But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.

    However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.

    And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air conditioning.

  8. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However -------->>>>>>>

    Robin T Cox wrote:

    > But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.


    A tiny few are. But practically no one is trying to get Linux.



    > However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.
    >
    > And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air
    > conditioning.


    uh oh! Will MS be dying shortly?



  9. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:36:42 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Robin T Cox wrote:
    >
    >> But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.

    >
    > A tiny few are. But practically no one is trying to get Linux.
    >


    Yet. They can still get XP, but only just. Wait and see what happens when
    M$ stops that possibility, in the near future.

    >
    >
    >> However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.
    >>
    >> And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air
    >> conditioning.

    >
    > uh oh! Will MS be dying shortly?


    What will they be offering? All they have to offer is Vista, and all the
    evidence is that end users are avoiding it in their droves.

    So you tell me what's likely to happen to M$.

  10. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:17:02 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:36:42 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Robin T Cox wrote:
    >>
    >>> But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.

    >>
    >> A tiny few are. But practically no one is trying to get Linux.
    >>
    >>

    > Yet. They can still get XP, but only just. Wait and see what happens
    > when M$ stops that possibility, in the near future.
    >
    >
    >>
    >>> However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.
    >>>
    >>> And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air
    >>> conditioning.

    >>
    >> uh oh! Will MS be dying shortly?

    >
    > What will they be offering? All they have to offer is Vista, and all the
    > evidence is that end users are avoiding it in their droves.
    >
    > So you tell me what's likely to happen to M$.



    The real question is if Vista is so bad, why hasn't Linux's desktop
    market share skyrocketed?
    Linux is free....Vista is not.
    Linux works, at least according to COLA, Vista is a mess, at least
    according to COLA.

    So what gives?
    Free vs cost and still Linux is well below the radar map?
    Doesn't make sense unless Linux is really not all it's cracked up to be.

    --

    John King
    beerking59@oohay.com
    "Just Say No To DRM"

  11. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:26:05 +0000, John King wrote:

    > The real question is if Vista is so bad, why hasn't Linux's desktop
    > market share skyrocketed?


    Where do you suggest looking to find the sales values for free operating
    systems?

    It doesn't make sense to you because you are asking the wrong question.

    If I give you something for nothing, it doesn't appear in the sales
    surveys, as you well know.

    Your question is totally disingenuous.

  12. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:40:48 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:26:05 +0000, John King wrote:
    >
    >> The real question is if Vista is so bad, why hasn't Linux's desktop
    >> market share skyrocketed?

    >
    > Where do you suggest looking to find the sales values for free operating
    > systems?
    >
    > It doesn't make sense to you because you are asking the wrong question.
    >
    > If I give you something for nothing, it doesn't appear in the sales
    > surveys, as you well know.
    >
    > Your question is totally disingenuous.



    I'm saying look around you.
    Take a good look.

    Where is Linux on the desktop?
    Your doctor?
    Your stockbroker?
    Auto dealership?
    Your kids classroom?

    Where is Linux?

    FWIW you can't measure something that is free, however you can take a
    subjective look around and decide.

    So where is Linux?

    I sure as hell don't see it anywhere.


    --

    John King
    beerking59@oohay.com
    "Just Say No To DRM"

  13. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:01:16 +0000, John King wrote:

    > FWIW you can't measure something that is free, however you can take a
    > subjective look around and decide.
    >
    > So where is Linux?
    >
    > I sure as hell don't see it anywhere.


    There's none so blind as those who don't want to see.

  14. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However -------->>>>>>>

    Robin T Cox wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:36:42 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Robin T Cox wrote:
    >>
    >>> But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.

    >>
    >> A tiny few are. But practically no one is trying to get Linux.
    >>

    >
    > Yet. They can still get XP, but only just. Wait and see what happens
    > when M$ stops that possibility, in the near future.


    End of June 2008:
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/f...alescycle.mspx

    I'll tell you exactly what will happen before, during and after XP: Vista
    sales will continue climbing, XP sales will continue falling, and Linux
    desktop adoption will remain as flat as it's always been - declining
    according to http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

    It's not rocket science: Linux isn't a suitable replacement for Windows,
    either at home or in the workplace.



    >>> However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.
    >>>
    >>> And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air
    >>> conditioning.

    >>
    >> uh oh! Will MS be dying shortly?

    >
    > What will they be offering? All they have to offer is Vista, and all
    > the evidence is that end users are avoiding it in their droves.


    There is *no evidence whatsoever* that users are avoiding it in droves. You
    Linux wacks think 10 or 100 anecdotes about "stay away from this Vista crap"
    is meaningful - but it's not.




    > So you tell me what's likely to happen to M$.


    Same as last 10 years: total MS\Windows domination of PC desktop and office
    productivity software, and they'll remain the largest software company in
    the world.




  15. Re: Linux is Probably A Superior Desktop Enviornment. However-------->>>>>>>

    On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:14:04 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Robin T Cox wrote:
    >> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:36:42 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> Robin T Cox wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> But if Vista is on offer, people are trying to get XP instead.
    >>>
    >>> A tiny few are. But practically no one is trying to get Linux.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yet. They can still get XP, but only just. Wait and see what happens
    >> when M$ stops that possibility, in the near future.

    >
    > End of June 2008:
    > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/f...alescycle.mspx
    >
    > I'll tell you exactly what will happen before, during and after XP: Vista
    > sales will continue climbing, XP sales will continue falling, and Linux
    > desktop adoption will remain as flat as it's always been - declining
    > according to http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
    >
    > It's not rocket science: Linux isn't a suitable replacement for Windows,
    > either at home or in the workplace.
    >


    Oh, but it is. In both situations. That's not rocket science either.

    >
    >
    >>>> However, XP will shortly be dumped as well.
    >>>>
    >>>> And then, for Microsoft, the solid matter will hit the air
    >>>> conditioning.
    >>>
    >>> uh oh! Will MS be dying shortly?

    >>
    >> What will they be offering? All they have to offer is Vista, and all
    >> the evidence is that end users are avoiding it in their droves.

    >
    > There is *no evidence whatsoever* that users are avoiding it in droves. You
    > Linux wacks think 10 or 100 anecdotes about "stay away from this Vista crap"
    > is meaningful - but it's not.
    >


    How many user reports do you need before the message sinks in? Vista is
    not popular, end of story. People will do anything rather than have to use
    it.

    >
    >
    >
    >> So you tell me what's likely to happen to M$.

    >
    > Same as last 10 years: total MS\Windows domination of PC desktop and
    > office productivity software, and they'll remain the largest software
    > company in the world.


    That's pure wishful thinking, my friend. All the indications are that M$
    have laid a rotten egg this time, and the stink of it is driving customers
    elsewhere.

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