Re: 463 kernel developers missing! - Kernel

This is a discussion on Re: 463 kernel developers missing! - Kernel ; On 28/07/08 15:45, Jon Smirl wrote: > Here's a new .mailmap file for the kernel that cleans up the horrible > mess of names and email addresses in the log. To use it put it at the > root of ...

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Thread: Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

  1. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 28/07/08 15:45, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > Here's a new .mailmap file for the kernel that cleans up the horrible
    > mess of names and email addresses in the log. To use it put it at the
    > root of your kernel tree and type 'git shortlog'. Before the clean up
    > there were 4,284 developers, after 3,821. There are 5,051 unique
    > emails.
    >
    > The mailmap file contains all email addresses that have been used to
    > submit patches to the kernel. Don't freak out about your email address
    > being in the file, if it is in the file it is already in Google since
    > the kernel log is already in Google.


    Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to
    send spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.

    Please read git-shortlog(1) and then remove me from this file because
    it won't change anything.

    --
    Simon Arlott
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  2. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > On 28/07/08 15:45, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >
    > > Here's a new .mailmap file for the kernel that cleans up the horrible
    > > mess of names and email addresses in the log. To use it put it at the
    > > root of your kernel tree and type 'git shortlog'. Before the clean up
    > > there were 4,284 developers, after 3,821. There are 5,051 unique
    > > emails.
    > >
    > > The mailmap file contains all email addresses that have been used to
    > > submit patches to the kernel. Don't freak out about your email address
    > > being in the file, if it is in the file it is already in Google since
    > > the kernel log is already in Google.
    > >

    >
    > Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to send
    > spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.


    You need to be in the file since you have submitted patches using three aliases.

    > Please read git-shortlog(1) and then remove me from this file because it
    > won't change anything.
    >
    > --
    > Simon Arlott
    >



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  3. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 28/07/08 18:05, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    >> On 28/07/08 15:45, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >>
    >> > Here's a new .mailmap file for the kernel that cleans up the horrible
    >> > mess of names and email addresses in the log. To use it put it at the
    >> > root of your kernel tree and type 'git shortlog'. Before the clean up
    >> > there were 4,284 developers, after 3,821. There are 5,051 unique
    >> > emails.
    >> >
    >> > The mailmap file contains all email addresses that have been used to
    >> > submit patches to the kernel. Don't freak out about your email address
    >> > being in the file, if it is in the file it is already in Google since
    >> > the kernel log is already in Google.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to send
    >> spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.

    >
    > You need to be in the file since you have submitted patches using three aliases.


    No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two - one is
    a typo).

    >> Please read git-shortlog(1) and then remove me from this file because it
    >> won't change anything.


    Try running "git shortlog" too, you'll see I only appear once using the
    existing 99-line .mailmap file.

    --
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  4. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > On 28/07/08 18:05, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >
    > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > >
    > > > On 28/07/08 15:45, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Here's a new .mailmap file for the kernel that cleans up the horrible
    > > > > mess of names and email addresses in the log. To use it put it at the
    > > > > root of your kernel tree and type 'git shortlog'. Before the clean up
    > > > > there were 4,284 developers, after 3,821. There are 5,051 unique
    > > > > emails.
    > > > >
    > > > > The mailmap file contains all email addresses that have been used to
    > > > > submit patches to the kernel. Don't freak out about your email address
    > > > > being in the file, if it is in the file it is already in Google since
    > > > > the kernel log is already in Google.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to

    > send
    > > > spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.
    > > >

    > >
    > > You need to be in the file since you have submitted patches using three

    > aliases.
    > >

    >
    > No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two - one is
    > a typo).


    That's the whole point of this list. When you submit patches in the
    future we can check your name/email against the list and flag it if it
    isn't there. That will alert you that you've made a typo.

    A later version of this list could separate the valid current
    names/addresses from the entries that are fixing typos or that have
    old emails. That would improve the validation. But I don't have an
    automated way to tell me which alias is the current one. Access to the
    current LKML subscriber list would supply the needed info as to which
    one to pick.

    > >
    > > > Please read git-shortlog(1) and then remove me from this file because

    > it
    > > > won't change anything.
    > > >

    > >

    >
    > Try running "git shortlog" too, you'll see I only appear once using the
    > existing 99-line .mailmap file.
    >
    > --
    > Simon Arlott
    >



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  5. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > A later version of this list could separate the valid current
    > names/addresses from the entries that are fixing typos or that have
    > old emails. That would improve the validation. But I don't have an
    > automated way to tell me which alias is the current one. Access to the
    > current LKML subscriber list would supply the needed info as to which
    > one to pick.


    Please dont use LKML subscriptions as the authority of one's preferred
    email address.

    I, for instance, am *only* subscribed to LKML using my gmail account.
    I prefer that nobody ever email my gmail account directly -- I use my
    gmail account as a filter -- gmail filters my mails and fwd's specific
    mails to my other specific email addresses -- I rarely read gmail
    directly, and I am unlikely to ever read an email addressed to my
    gmail box.

    I favor my "at linuxtv dot org" account for my kernel work, and I hope
    that is the email that shows up as primary for me (I would only guess
    that I have one or two aliases in this .mailmap file.)

    Regards,

    Mike
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  6. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 28/07/08 18:22, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    >> On 28/07/08 18:05, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >> > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    >> > > Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to

    >> send
    >> > > spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > You need to be in the file since you have submitted patches using three

    >> aliases.
    >> >

    >>
    >> No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two - one is
    >> a typo).

    >
    > That's the whole point of this list. When you submit patches in the
    > future we can check your name/email against the list and flag it if it
    > isn't there. That will alert you that you've made a typo.


    I don't make typos in my name or email address.

    > A later version of this list could separate the valid current
    > names/addresses from the entries that are fixing typos or that have
    > old emails. That would improve the validation. But I don't have an
    > automated way to tell me which alias is the current one. Access to the
    > current LKML subscriber list would supply the needed info as to which
    > one to pick.


    Validation of what?
    The current alias is the most recent active one.

    I'm not subscribed to the LKML with a public address.
    Please Cc: me if you submit a patch for this so I can add a Nacked-By:
    and/or cleanup the list by removing redundant entires. Even if git-shortlog
    is changed to distinguish between people who share the same name, it would
    still be a list of exceptions rather than everyone.

    --
    Simon Arlott
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  7. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Michael Krufky wrote:
    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:

    >
    > > A later version of this list could separate the valid current
    > > names/addresses from the entries that are fixing typos or that have
    > > old emails. That would improve the validation. But I don't have an
    > > automated way to tell me which alias is the current one. Access to the
    > > current LKML subscriber list would supply the needed info as to which
    > > one to pick.

    >
    >
    > Please dont use LKML subscriptions as the authority of one's preferred
    > email address.


    I was only going to use it to help decide which alias was the right
    alias, not to generate new entries. In your case it wouldn't help.

    >
    > I, for instance, am *only* subscribed to LKML using my gmail account.
    > I prefer that nobody ever email my gmail account directly -- I use my
    > gmail account as a filter -- gmail filters my mails and fwd's specific
    > mails to my other specific email addresses -- I rarely read gmail
    > directly, and I am unlikely to ever read an email addressed to my
    > gmail box.
    >
    > I favor my "at linuxtv dot org" account for my kernel work, and I hope
    > that is the email that shows up as primary for me (I would only guess
    > that I have one or two aliases in this .mailmap file.)


    You have used four aliases: krufky, infradead, linuxtv, m1k.

    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Mike
    >



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  8. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > On 28/07/08 18:22, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >
    > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > >
    > > > On 28/07/08 18:05, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > > > > > Just because anyone can grep the kernel log for email addresses [to
    > > > send
    > > > > > spam to], doesn't mean that you need to do it for them.
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > You need to be in the file since you have submitted patches using

    > three
    > > > aliases.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two - one

    > is
    > > > a typo).
    > > >

    > >
    > > That's the whole point of this list. When you submit patches in the
    > > future we can check your name/email against the list and flag it if it
    > > isn't there. That will alert you that you've made a typo.
    > >

    >
    > I don't make typos in my name or email address.


    You just admitted six lines early that you made a typo.

    > > A later version of this list could separate the valid current
    > > names/addresses from the entries that are fixing typos or that have
    > > old emails. That would improve the validation. But I don't have an
    > > automated way to tell me which alias is the current one. Access to the
    > > current LKML subscriber list would supply the needed info as to which
    > > one to pick.
    > >

    >
    > Validation of what?
    > The current alias is the most recent active one.
    >
    > I'm not subscribed to the LKML with a public address.
    > Please Cc: me if you submit a patch for this so I can add a Nacked-By:
    > and/or cleanup the list by removing redundant entires. Even if git-shortlog
    > is changed to distinguish between people who share the same name, it would
    > still be a list of exceptions rather than everyone.


    Comparing to LKML subscribers would not be used to generate new email
    addresses. It would only help to identify which existing alias is your
    current one. But we don't have to do it that way, I can use the email
    of your most recent commit as your current address and you can fix it
    if it is wrong. Only email addresses that appear in the kernel log
    should appear in the mailmap file.


    >
    > --
    > Simon Arlott
    >



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  9. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 28/07/08 19:19, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    >> On 28/07/08 18:22, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >> > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    >> > > No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two - one
    >> > > is a typo).
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > That's the whole point of this list. When you submit patches in the
    >> > future we can check your name/email against the list and flag it if it
    >> > isn't there. That will alert you that you've made a typo.
    >> >

    >>
    >> I don't make typos in my name or email address.

    >
    > You just admitted six lines early that you made a typo.


    No, all I said was that one is a typo. I did not make it.

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  10. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > On 28/07/08 19:19, Jon Smirl wrote:
    >
    > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > >
    > > > On 28/07/08 18:22, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > > > On 7/28/08, Simon Arlott wrote:
    > > > > > No, I've submitted patches using three email addresses (well, two -

    > one
    > > > > > is a typo).
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > That's the whole point of this list. When you submit patches in the
    > > > > future we can check your name/email against the list and flag it if it
    > > > > isn't there. That will alert you that you've made a typo.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > I don't make typos in my name or email address.
    > > >

    > >
    > > You just admitted six lines early that you made a typo.
    > >

    >
    > No, all I said was that one is a typo. I did not make it.


    Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.

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  11. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    > names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.
    >


    You keep using the word "need"; I do not think it means what you think
    it does. :-)

    Seriously, why is it so important? It's a nice to have, and I
    recognize that you've spent a bunch of time on it. But if the goal is
    to get better statistics, and in exchange we forcibly map all Mark
    Browns to one e-mail address, and/or force them to all adopt middle
    initials (what if there are two Dan Smith's that don't have middle
    initials) just for the convenience of your statistics gathering, I
    would gently suggest to you that you've forgotten which is the tail,
    and which is the dog.

    Regards,

    - Ted
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  12. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Theodore Tso wrote:
    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    > > names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.
    > >

    >
    >
    > You keep using the word "need"; I do not think it means what you think
    > it does. :-)
    >
    > Seriously, why is it so important? It's a nice to have, and I
    > recognize that you've spent a bunch of time on it. But if the goal is
    > to get better statistics, and in exchange we forcibly map all Mark
    > Browns to one e-mail address, and/or force them to all adopt middle
    > initials (what if there are two Dan Smith's that don't have middle
    > initials) just for the convenience of your statistics gathering, I
    > would gently suggest to you that you've forgotten which is the tail,
    > and which is the dog.


    There are over 1,000 typos in the logs. No validation being done on
    the names/addresses in the logs. Many email addresses aren't
    syntactically valid. Why not put some checks in place to try and clean
    this up? Signed-off-by is worthless if it is full of garbage.

    The are two Mark Browns in the file:
    Mark Brown
    Mark Brown

    I don't know if these are two different people or one person with two
    emails. But the file doesn't force that decision. It's git shortlog
    that is combining them.

    The file serves two purposes:
    Map people using multiple email aliases a human single name, It can be
    any name they choose. Existing file already does this but the list is
    not complete.
    Enumerate all email addresses used in the log so that it is possible
    to tell when a new address is encountered. Allows simple validation to
    be implemented.

    In it's current form it doesn't indicate which aliases is the
    developer's currently active one.

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  13. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:22:36PM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    > > names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.
    > >

    >
    > You keep using the word "need"; I do not think it means what you think
    > it does. :-)
    >
    > Seriously, why is it so important? It's a nice to have, and I
    > recognize that you've spent a bunch of time on it. But if the goal is
    > to get better statistics, and in exchange we forcibly map all Mark
    > Browns to one e-mail address, and/or force them to all adopt middle
    > initials (what if there are two Dan Smith's that don't have middle
    > initials) just for the convenience of your statistics gathering, I
    > would gently suggest to you that you've forgotten which is the tail,
    > and which is the dog.


    I'm beginning to question just how useful the continued measuring
    of things like Signed-off-by's is. Last week at OLS, I overheard
    a conversation where someone was talking about the "top 10" lists
    that Greg has been talking about at various conferences.
    The conversation went along the lines of "my manager really wants
    to see us on that list, at any cost".
    Whilst the niave may think 'more patches == more better', this isn't
    necessarily the case given we have nowhere near enough review bandwidth
    *now*, and flooding with a zillion trivial patches really isn't going
    to make that job any easier.

    Getting patches into the tree is easy, we've proven that.
    As things stand now, it's also fairly easy to 'game' the system
    by committing something in 10 changesets when it could be done
    just as easily in 2-3.

    How about we start measuring things that actually matter, like..

    "How many patches were reviewed before they went in"
    "How many patches were directly responsible for a bug"
    "How many patches actually fixed something anyone cares about"
    "How many patches are responsible for just 'churn'"

    Dave

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  14. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:46:24 -0400 Dave Jones wrote:

    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:22:36PM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
    > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > > Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    > > > names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.
    > > >

    > >
    > > You keep using the word "need"; I do not think it means what you think
    > > it does. :-)
    > >
    > > Seriously, why is it so important? It's a nice to have, and I
    > > recognize that you've spent a bunch of time on it. But if the goal is
    > > to get better statistics, and in exchange we forcibly map all Mark
    > > Browns to one e-mail address, and/or force them to all adopt middle
    > > initials (what if there are two Dan Smith's that don't have middle
    > > initials) just for the convenience of your statistics gathering, I
    > > would gently suggest to you that you've forgotten which is the tail,
    > > and which is the dog.

    >
    > I'm beginning to question just how useful the continued measuring
    > of things like Signed-off-by's is. Last week at OLS, I overheard
    > a conversation where someone was talking about the "top 10" lists
    > that Greg has been talking about at various conferences.
    > The conversation went along the lines of "my manager really wants
    > to see us on that list, at any cost".
    > Whilst the niave may think 'more patches == more better', this isn't
    > necessarily the case given we have nowhere near enough review bandwidth
    > *now*, and flooding with a zillion trivial patches really isn't going
    > to make that job any easier.
    >
    > Getting patches into the tree is easy, we've proven that.
    > As things stand now, it's also fairly easy to 'game' the system
    > by committing something in 10 changesets when it could be done
    > just as easily in 2-3.
    >
    > How about we start measuring things that actually matter, like..
    >
    > "How many patches were reviewed before they went in"
    > "How many patches were directly responsible for a bug"
    > "How many patches actually fixed something anyone cares about"
    > "How many patches are responsible for just 'churn'"


    It would be Good if we could give more value to Reviewed-by: tag lines also...

    IOW, we "need" to do this.


    ---
    ~Randy
    Linux Plumbers Conference, 17-19 September 2008, Portland, Oregon USA
    http://linuxplumbersconf.org/
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  15. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Randy Dunlap wrote:

    > It would be Good if we could give more value to Reviewed-by: tag lines also...
    >
    > IOW, we "need" to do this.


    Also, Tested-by:, to encourage and recognize people who may not be
    confident in reviewing code to at least test it, which is immensely
    useful if done thoughtfully.

    "Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring
    aircraft building progress by weight."

    If you know who said this, award yourself a cookie :-)


    - James
    --
    James Morris

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  16. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Dave Jones wrote:
    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:22:36PM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
    > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > > Other people aren't perfect, I've found over 1,000 typos in the those
    > > > names and emails. We need a validation mechanism.
    > > >

    > >
    > > You keep using the word "need"; I do not think it means what you think
    > > it does. :-)
    > >
    > > Seriously, why is it so important? It's a nice to have, and I
    > > recognize that you've spent a bunch of time on it. But if the goal is
    > > to get better statistics, and in exchange we forcibly map all Mark
    > > Browns to one e-mail address, and/or force them to all adopt middle
    > > initials (what if there are two Dan Smith's that don't have middle
    > > initials) just for the convenience of your statistics gathering, I
    > > would gently suggest to you that you've forgotten which is the tail,
    > > and which is the dog.

    >
    >
    > I'm beginning to question just how useful the continued measuring
    > of things like Signed-off-by's is. Last week at OLS, I overheard
    > a conversation where someone was talking about the "top 10" lists
    > that Greg has been talking about at various conferences.
    > The conversation went along the lines of "my manager really wants
    > to see us on that list, at any cost".


    I didn't do this to measure statistics, I did it because I was writing
    a script and the script was getting garbage for input. It just had the
    side effect of cleaning up the statistics.

    > Whilst the naive may think 'more patches == more better', this isn't
    > necessarily the case given we have nowhere near enough review bandwidth
    > *now*, and flooding with a zillion trivial patches really isn't going
    > to make that job any easier.
    >
    > Getting patches into the tree is easy, we've proven that.
    > As things stand now, it's also fairly easy to 'game' the system
    > by committing something in 10 changesets when it could be done
    > just as easily in 2-3.
    >
    > How about we start measuring things that actually matter, like..
    >
    > "How many patches were reviewed before they went in"
    > "How many patches were directly responsible for a bug"
    > "How many patches actually fixed something anyone cares about"
    > "How many patches are responsible for just 'churn'"
    >


    These are good topics for the Plumbers conference. But to ask these
    questions we need to get the data into a format where a computer can
    process it. Syntax checking, validation, etc are needed on the log
    messages. I'm not going to hunt through 100,000 commits trying to
    answer these by hand.

    Another fun experiment would be to load an archive of LKML, kernel
    bugzilla and the kernel source history into git and then try to link
    everything together. The cleaner the data is, the easier it will be to
    link things. How about a GUI where each patch is annotated with a link
    to the email thread discussing it?

    --
    Jon Smirl
    jonsmirl@gmail.com
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  17. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:32:41 -0400 Theodore Tso wrote:

    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 06:08:33PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > I didn't do this to measure statistics, I did it because I was writing
    > > a script and the script was getting garbage for input. It just had the
    > > side effect of cleaning up the statistics.

    >
    > Out of curiosity, what is your script trying to do?



    Speaking of missing developers, I'd be more interested in whatever
    happened to Michal Piotrowski, Satyam Sharma, et al...


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    Linux Plumbers Conference, 17-19 September 2008, Portland, Oregon USA
    http://linuxplumbersconf.org/
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  18. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 06:08:33PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > I didn't do this to measure statistics, I did it because I was writing
    > a script and the script was getting garbage for input. It just had the
    > side effect of cleaning up the statistics.


    Out of curiosity, what is your script trying to do?

    - Ted
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  19. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    Jon Smirl wrote:
    > Another fun experiment would be to load an archive of LKML, kernel
    > bugzilla and the kernel source history into git and then try to link
    > everything together.


    Another fun experiment: Fetch 10 open bugs in bugzilla which may affect
    your hardware, try to reproduce one of them, fix it.
    --
    Stefan Richter
    -=====-==--- -=== ===-=
    http://arcgraph.de/sr/
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  20. Re: 463 kernel developers missing!

    On 7/28/08, Theodore Tso wrote:
    > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 06:08:33PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote:
    > > I didn't do this to measure statistics, I did it because I was writing
    > > a script and the script was getting garbage for input. It just had the
    > > side effect of cleaning up the statistics.

    >
    >
    > Out of curiosity, what is your script trying to do?


    I was trying to locate my patches in other private trees that were
    ready for deletion. I wanted to make sure there wasn't something good
    that I had forgotten about. I processed the output from 'git log' and
    got tripped up matching the author field because is was full of junk.
    My database background kicked in and I found myself on a tangent
    cleaning up the data.

    I have since learned about the existence of 'git shortlog' which
    solved my problem. But I had already cleaned up the data before
    finding it.

    >
    > - Ted
    >



    --
    Jon Smirl
    jonsmirl@gmail.com
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