No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS - Kernel

This is a discussion on No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS - Kernel ; Hi, We've received an installation report for Debian for an older system where no IDE driver gets loaded. The system does not have any IDE device listed in lspci. When ide-generic is modprobed manually, both the CD and hard disk ...

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  1. No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    Hi,

    We've received an installation report for Debian for an older system where
    no IDE driver gets loaded. The system does not have any IDE device listed in
    lspci. When ide-generic is modprobed manually, both the CD and hard disk
    work fine.

    Any suggestions on how such a system could be recognized?
    If we could do that, the installation system could take responsibility for
    loading ide-generic and making sure it is included in the initrd.

    Or even better, any chance to make the kernel/udev load ide-generic
    automatically for this system?

    See http://bugs.debian.org/472487 for details. I can get additional info
    from the owner of the system if needed.

    Cheers,
    FJP

    Output of lspci -nn:
    00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Toshiba America Info Systems CPU to PCI bridge [1179:0601]
    (rev a0)
    00:04.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Chips and Technologies F65555 HiQVPro
    [102c:00e5] (rev c6)
    00:0b.0 USB Controller [0c03]: NEC Corporation USB [1033:0035] (rev 02)
    00:11.0 Communication controller [0780]: Toshiba America Info Systems FIR Port
    [1179:0701] (rev 21)
    00:13.0 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97 [1179:060f] (rev
    20)
    00:13.1 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97 [1179:060f] (rev
    20)
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  2. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 03:24:26PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > We've received an installation report for Debian for an older system where
    > no IDE driver gets loaded. The system does not have any IDE device listed in
    > lspci. When ide-generic is modprobed manually, both the CD and hard disk
    > work fine.
    >
    > Any suggestions on how such a system could be recognized?
    > If we could do that, the installation system could take responsibility for
    > loading ide-generic and making sure it is included in the initrd.
    >
    > Or even better, any chance to make the kernel/udev load ide-generic
    > automatically for this system?
    >
    > See http://bugs.debian.org/472487 for details. I can get additional info
    > from the owner of the system if needed.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > FJP
    >
    > Output of lspci -nn:
    > 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Toshiba America Info Systems CPU to PCI bridge [1179:0601]
    > (rev a0)
    > 00:04.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Chips and Technologies F65555 HiQVPro
    > [102c:00e5] (rev c6)
    > 00:0b.0 USB Controller [0c03]: NEC Corporation USB [1033:0035] (rev 02)
    > 00:11.0 Communication controller [0780]: Toshiba America Info Systems FIR Port
    > [1179:0701] (rev 21)
    > 00:13.0 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97 [1179:060f] (rev
    > 20)
    > 00:13.1 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97 [1179:060f] (rev
    > 20)


    How old is that system? Maybe the IDE isn't even PCI based. That would
    explain why nothing shows in lspci, but the IDE ports are still present
    and working.

    One could always just manually tell the system to always load
    ide-generic, since deciding what to load does seem to be a userspace
    choice these days.

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  3. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > How old is that system?


    Not sure. As the system only has 32MB RAM I'd say sometime late 1990s.

    > Maybe the IDE isn't even PCI based. That would explain why nothing shows
    > in lspci, but the IDE ports are still present and working.


    Could be. What would it be then? ISA? Any way to recognize that?

    I did find a product page, but it's low on real specs:
    http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.gr...3&product=1605

    > One could always just manually tell the system to always load
    > ide-generic, since deciding what to load does seem to be a userspace
    > choice these days.


    Well, in the Debian Installer we prefer to load things automatically
    whenever possible. If the kernel does not do it, that's fine.

    But to have the installer itself automatically load ide-generic for the
    user, we'd still have to somehow recognize that we need the driver.
    Any ideas/suggestions what to look for?

    Cheers,
    FJP
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  4. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 04:29:40PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > Not sure. As the system only has 32MB RAM I'd say sometime late 1990s.


    Well if Win95 was preinstalled, and being a 233MMX, then probably around
    1997 or 1998, although just before Win98 came out I imagine.

    > Could be. What would it be then? ISA? Any way to recognize that?


    Yeah ISA seems likely.

    Given IDE says PIO mode only, it sure isn't a busmastering IDE
    controller.

    > I did find a product page, but it's low on real specs:
    > http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.gr...3&product=1605
    >
    > Well, in the Debian Installer we prefer to load things automatically
    > whenever possible. If the kernel does not do it, that's fine.


    I am sure the debian installer used to always load ide-generic after
    trying everything else. There was probably a reason for that. You
    never have been able to detect isa devices releably (even after pnp was
    invented). Certainly the debian installer in 2.0 worked fine when I
    installed my 486. Having reinstalled (only upgraded) ever since, I
    can't say if the installer would still work on it (I just figured it
    probably would). I could try it out again though.

    > But to have the installer itself automatically load ide-generic for the
    > user, we'd still have to somehow recognize that we need the driver.
    > Any ideas/suggestions what to look for?


    If you can't see any other disks, load it. Heck load it last no matter
    what since any supported IDE ports should have already had their driver
    loaded, so worst case it does nothing in which case the autoclean of
    unneeded kernel modules could remove it again, and best case it finds an
    old isa/vlb style IDE controller on the standard port numbers and works
    with it.

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  5. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > I am sure the debian installer used to always load ide-generic after
    > trying everything else. There was probably a reason for that. You
    > never have been able to detect isa devices releably (even after pnp was
    > invented).


    Well, what the installer used to do for Sarge and Etch was basically to load
    _all_ drivers (including ide-generic) manually by default, which is totally
    useless as most devices are perfectly autodetected nowadays. It also wastes
    memory as you'd end up having a lot of unused drivers in memory.

    Post-etch we decided to change that and currently drivers are only loaded if
    autodetected (with some exceptions, such as for sparc sbus and hppa bus).
    We were aware that this could cause some regressions, but so far this is the
    first real report.

    Another change in Debian since Etch is that initramfs-tools no longer loads
    ide-generic by default, which IMO is also a good thing. We can easily make
    it load ide-generic when needed, but for that again we first have to know
    that it _is_ needed.

    > > But to have the installer itself automatically load ide-generic for the
    > > user, we'd still have to somehow recognize that we need the driver.
    > > Any ideas/suggestions what to look for?

    >
    > If you can't see any other disks, load it.


    Yes, that could be one way to implement it: load it and then check if that
    added any devices.

    > Heck load it last no matter
    > what since any supported IDE ports should have already had their driver
    > loaded, so worst case it does nothing in which case the autoclean of
    > unneeded kernel modules could remove it again, and best case it finds an
    > old isa/vlb style IDE controller on the standard port numbers and works
    > with it.


    That would still leave us with the problem of not knowing whether it needs
    to be added for initramfs-tools or not.

    If there are no other suggestions, I guess we'll go with a "load and check"
    implementation. Thanks a lot for your input.

    Anybody know how other distributions deal with this?

    Cheers,
    FJP
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  6. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008 15:24:26 Frans Pop wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > We've received an installation report for Debian for an older system where
    > no IDE driver gets loaded. The system does not have any IDE device listed
    > in lspci. When ide-generic is modprobed manually, both the CD and hard disk
    > work fine.
    >
    > Any suggestions on how such a system could be recognized?
    > If we could do that, the installation system could take responsibility for
    > loading ide-generic and making sure it is included in the initrd.
    >
    > Or even better, any chance to make the kernel/udev load ide-generic
    > automatically for this system?
    >
    > See http://bugs.debian.org/472487 for details. I can get additional info
    > from the owner of the system if needed.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > FJP
    >
    > Output of lspci -nn:
    > 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Toshiba America Info Systems CPU to PCI bridge
    > [1179:0601] (rev a0)
    > 00:04.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Chips and Technologies F65555
    > HiQVPro [102c:00e5] (rev c6)
    > 00:0b.0 USB Controller [0c03]: NEC Corporation USB [1033:0035] (rev 02)
    > 00:11.0 Communication controller [0780]: Toshiba America Info Systems FIR
    > Port [1179:0701] (rev 21)
    > 00:13.0 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > [1179:060f] (rev 20)
    > 00:13.1 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > [1179:060f] (rev 20)


    Looks like the controller is not a separate PCI device. Toshiba provides Bus
    Mastering driver for Windows 95:
    http://209.167.114.38/support/downlo...s_95_files.htm

    So the controller probably can do DMA but it's not a standard IDE controller.
    And looks like there's no driver in the kernel for it.

    --
    Ondrej Zary
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  7. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 06:20:03PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > Well, what the installer used to do for Sarge and Etch was basically to load
    > _all_ drivers (including ide-generic) manually by default, which is totally
    > useless as most devices are perfectly autodetected nowadays. It also wastes
    > memory as you'd end up having a lot of unused drivers in memory.
    >
    > Post-etch we decided to change that and currently drivers are only loaded if
    > autodetected (with some exceptions, such as for sparc sbus and hppa bus).
    > We were aware that this could cause some regressions, but so far this is the
    > first real report.
    >
    > Another change in Debian since Etch is that initramfs-tools no longer loads
    > ide-generic by default, which IMO is also a good thing. We can easily make
    > it load ide-generic when needed, but for that again we first have to know
    > that it _is_ needed.


    Well, my educated guess (and that's all it is) is that any system with a
    386, 486 or pentium might have an ISA based IDE controller. For that
    matter I used to have an ISA based IDE controller on my sound card in a
    PPro, although that one was PnP capable (although I always ran with that
    disabled because it sucked).

    Essentially if you have an ISA bus there could be an IDE controller
    there. No way to really know without probing the standard IDE ports,
    which is pretty much what ide-generic does as far as I can tell. I
    think many architectures other than x86 also have generic IDE
    controllers that are supported as long as ide-generic is loaded with the
    architecture specific code having defined the ports to look at.

    > Yes, that could be one way to implement it: load it and then check if that
    > added any devices.


    Well even if you see other disks doesn't mean you don't also have an old
    IDE controller you want to use, so probably load it and see if it finds
    any disks is the best bet after loading all the other probeable drivers
    first.

    > That would still leave us with the problem of not knowing whether it needs
    > to be added for initramfs-tools or not.
    >
    > If there are no other suggestions, I guess we'll go with a "load and check"
    > implementation. Thanks a lot for your input.


    I think that's the best you can do.

    > Anybody know how other distributions deal with this?


    I gave up other distributions for Debian in 1999, so I can't help there.

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  8. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 06:33:46PM +0200, Ondrej Zary wrote:
    > On Wednesday 02 April 2008 15:24:26 Frans Pop wrote:
    > > Output of lspci -nn:
    > > 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Toshiba America Info Systems CPU to PCI bridge
    > > [1179:0601] (rev a0)
    > > 00:04.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Chips and Technologies F65555
    > > HiQVPro [102c:00e5] (rev c6)
    > > 00:0b.0 USB Controller [0c03]: NEC Corporation USB [1033:0035] (rev 02)
    > > 00:11.0 Communication controller [0780]: Toshiba America Info Systems FIR
    > > Port [1179:0701] (rev 21)
    > > 00:13.0 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > > [1179:060f] (rev 20)
    > > 00:13.1 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > > [1179:060f] (rev 20)

    >
    > Looks like the controller is not a separate PCI device. Toshiba provides Bus
    > Mastering driver for Windows 95:
    > http://209.167.114.38/support/downlo...s_95_files.htm
    >
    > So the controller probably can do DMA but it's not a standard IDE controller.
    > And looks like there's no driver in the kernel for it.


    I don't think that bus master package is for that machine. The
    datasheet for it mentioned PIO4 max. I think the BUSIDE.EXE is for
    machines with the early PIIX controller (which that particular machine
    clearly doesn't have since it has no PCI IDE controller).

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  9. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008 22:05:49 Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 06:33:46PM +0200, Ondrej Zary wrote:
    > > On Wednesday 02 April 2008 15:24:26 Frans Pop wrote:
    > > > Output of lspci -nn:
    > > > 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Toshiba America Info Systems CPU to PCI
    > > > bridge [1179:0601] (rev a0)
    > > > 00:04.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Chips and Technologies F65555
    > > > HiQVPro [102c:00e5] (rev c6)
    > > > 00:0b.0 USB Controller [0c03]: NEC Corporation USB [1033:0035] (rev 02)
    > > > 00:11.0 Communication controller [0780]: Toshiba America Info Systems
    > > > FIR Port [1179:0701] (rev 21)
    > > > 00:13.0 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > > > [1179:060f] (rev 20)
    > > > 00:13.1 CardBus bridge [0607]: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC97
    > > > [1179:060f] (rev 20)

    > >
    > > Looks like the controller is not a separate PCI device. Toshiba provides
    > > Bus Mastering driver for Windows 95:
    > > http://209.167.114.38/support/downlo...windows_95_fil
    > >es.htm
    > >
    > > So the controller probably can do DMA but it's not a standard IDE
    > > controller. And looks like there's no driver in the kernel for it.

    >
    > I don't think that bus master package is for that machine. The
    > datasheet for it mentioned PIO4 max. I think the BUSIDE.EXE is for
    > machines with the early PIIX controller (which that particular machine
    > clearly doesn't have since it has no PCI IDE controller).


    I mean S320BIDE.EXE - that's for this machine only.

    --
    Ondrej Zary
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  10. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 10:10:23PM +0200, Ondrej Zary wrote:
    > I mean S320BIDE.EXE - that's for this machine only.


    Hmm, I missed that one. I wonder how they do it. Well ISA did support
    bus mastering DMA although it seems rare to implement it. Or it could
    be VLB style.

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  11. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008 22:22:25 Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 10:10:23PM +0200, Ondrej Zary wrote:
    > > I mean S320BIDE.EXE - that's for this machine only.

    >
    > Hmm, I missed that one. I wonder how they do it. Well ISA did support
    > bus mastering DMA although it seems rare to implement it. Or it could
    > be VLB style.


    I suspect that the IDE controller is integrated into the Toshiba chipset but
    does not appear as a separate PCI device. It could be controlled by some
    registers of the "host-bridge" or some other device.

    --
    Ondrej Zary
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  12. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wednesday 02 April 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > > Yes, that could be one way to implement it: load it and then check if
    > > that added any devices.

    >
    > Well even if you see other disks doesn't mean you don't also have an old
    > IDE controller you want to use, so probably load it and see if it finds
    > any disks is the best bet after loading all the other probeable drivers
    > first.


    I've decided (at least for now) to only do this f /sys/bus/isa is present.
    I added a check to see if there are additional devices in /sys/block after
    loading ide-generic to decide whether or not to also include it in the
    initrd for the installed system.

    /sys/bus/isa is present for this machine so it works even if (as Ondrej
    suggests) the controller is not actually on the ISA bus. We can always
    extend the test if it turns out systems without ISA bus are also affected.

    I'll also send out a call for testing specifically for this issue.

    Thanks to you and Ondrej for the discussion.

    Cheers,
    FJP
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  13. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 07:47:06PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > I've decided (at least for now) to only do this f /sys/bus/isa is present.
    > I added a check to see if there are additional devices in /sys/block after
    > loading ide-generic to decide whether or not to also include it in the
    > initrd for the installed system.


    I am just wondering if arm, m68k, etc might have IDE ports that work
    with ide-generic. I have no idea to be quite honest.

    > /sys/bus/isa is present for this machine so it works even if (as Ondrej
    > suggests) the controller is not actually on the ISA bus. We can always
    > extend the test if it turns out systems without ISA bus are also affected.


    Hmm, I must admit my newest x86 does in fact not have a /sys/bus/isa. I
    guess it really does not have anything left resembling ISA.

    > I'll also send out a call for testing specifically for this issue.


    I can certainly give the installer a shot on my 486, if I can manage to
    boot it somehow. Any floppy images for the installer around anymore?

    Do I have to put a disk image on a harddisk and boot from that? CD and
    network boot are not an option.

    --
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  14. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Thursday 03 April 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > I am just wondering if arm, m68k, etc might have IDE ports that work
    > with ide-generic. I have no idea to be quite honest.


    I plan to mention other arches in the call for testing, so I guess we'll
    find out.

    > I can certainly give the installer a shot on my 486, if I can manage to
    > boot it somehow. Any floppy images for the installer around anymore?


    Of course there are ;-)
    http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/l...images/floppy/

    These use 2.6.22. They don't have the fix I just implemented though. If the
    IDE controller is not detected, try booting the installer with
    hw-detect/load-ide=true
    The daily built images, which do have the fix, use 2.6.24, but the increase
    in the size of the kernel causes the boot floppy to be too big so
    installing from floppy is currently not possible. We're working on fixing
    that.

    > Do I have to put a disk image on a harddisk and boot from that?


    That's an alternative. Use either the netboot or hd-media images for that,
    and it means that you could use a daily image. With the hd-media images
    you'll also need to copy a CD image on the hard disk.

    Cheers,
    FJP

    (Apologies to the list for the somewhat OT post, suggest we follow up
    privately if needed.)
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  15. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:34:58 +0200
    Ondrej Zary wrote:

    > On Wednesday 02 April 2008 22:22:25 Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    > > On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 10:10:23PM +0200, Ondrej Zary wrote:
    > > > I mean S320BIDE.EXE - that's for this machine only.

    > >
    > > Hmm, I missed that one. I wonder how they do it. Well ISA did support
    > > bus mastering DMA although it seems rare to implement it. Or it could
    > > be VLB style.

    >
    > I suspect that the IDE controller is integrated into the Toshiba chipset but
    > does not appear as a separate PCI device. It could be controlled by some
    > registers of the "host-bridge" or some other device.


    Toshiba Piccolo series. PCI chipset integrated IDE, not supported as
    Toshiba refused to even answer emails about it. If you want it to work
    you need to find out what registers their driver writes to

    Alan
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  16. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    Frans Pop wrote:
    > On Wednesday 02 April 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
    >>> Yes, that could be one way to implement it: load it and then check if
    >>> that added any devices.

    >> Well even if you see other disks doesn't mean you don't also have an old
    >> IDE controller you want to use, so probably load it and see if it finds
    >> any disks is the best bet after loading all the other probeable drivers
    >> first.

    >
    > I've decided (at least for now) to only do this f /sys/bus/isa is present.
    > I added a check to see if there are additional devices in /sys/block after
    > loading ide-generic to decide whether or not to also include it in the
    > initrd for the installed system.
    >
    > /sys/bus/isa is present for this machine so it works even if (as Ondrej
    > suggests) the controller is not actually on the ISA bus. We can always
    > extend the test if it turns out systems without ISA bus are also affected.
    >
    > I'll also send out a call for testing specifically for this issue.
    >
    > Thanks to you and Ondrej for the discussion.


    Please be advised that some modern controllers are dual interfaced.
    Native one and legacy one. The legacy one is SFF compliant and
    depending on configuration may appear at legacy IO addresses, so if you
    aren't careful, you can end up with two drivers driving the same
    hardware which usually doesn't end too well. Loading generic drivers
    w/o knowing that it's needed is quite dangerous. I would strongly
    advise against it.

    --
    tejun
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  17. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Sunday 13 April 2008, Tejun Heo wrote:
    > Please be advised that some modern controllers are dual interfaced.
    > Native one and legacy one. The legacy one is SFF compliant and
    > depending on configuration may appear at legacy IO addresses, so if you
    > aren't careful, you can end up with two drivers driving the same
    > hardware which usually doesn't end too well. Loading generic drivers
    > w/o knowing that it's needed is quite dangerous. I would strongly
    > advise against it.


    I totally agree. The problem being discussed here is exactly how to know it
    is needed. If you have better suggestions for that, I'd appreciate it.

    As you specifically say "modern controllers", I suspect that the problem is
    limited as I guess those are fairly unlikely to be found in machines that
    have an ISA bus.

    I also think the way I've implemented in the Debian installer should be
    relatively safe:
    1) ide-generic is only loaded _after_ any otherwise detected modules
    2) it is only loaded if an ISA bus is present
    3) it is only included in the initrd for the installed system if loading it
    in the installer resulted in additional block devices appearing

    I would unload ide-generic in the installer if no additional block devices
    appear, but unfortunately that's not possible as it is marked "permanent".

    By loading it after any other drivers I expect there will be no issues
    during the installation (as the other driver will already have claimed the
    device). Making sure it is only loaded for the installed system if actually
    needed should avoid problems there.

    ATM I can only see this causing problems in systems that need both
    ide-generic and some other driver as adding ide-generic in the initrd is
    likely to result in it being loaded before that other driver.

    Again, if anyone has a better suggestion how to implement this (preferably
    without asking the user whether he has a device that needs ide-generic,
    which most users are unlikely to know anyway), I'd appreciate it.

    Cheers,
    FJP
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  18. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:39:04AM +0900, Tejun Heo wrote:
    > Please be advised that some modern controllers are dual interfaced.
    > Native one and legacy one. The legacy one is SFF compliant and
    > depending on configuration may appear at legacy IO addresses, so if you
    > aren't careful, you can end up with two drivers driving the same
    > hardware which usually doesn't end too well. Loading generic drivers
    > w/o knowing that it's needed is quite dangerous. I would strongly
    > advise against it.


    If you can't safely load the generic driver then the kernel is very
    broken and needs fixing.

    After all there is no reason I couldn't have multiple IDE controllers,
    some of which have dual interfaces, and some of which only have the old
    generic interface (like the IDE port on my old ISA sound card).

    If a driver supports a device with dual interfaces, then it better
    reserve both sets of ports to prevent the generic driver from trying to
    use them.

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  19. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 03:59:20PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
    > I totally agree. The problem being discussed here is exactly how to know it
    > is needed. If you have better suggestions for that, I'd appreciate it.
    >
    > As you specifically say "modern controllers", I suspect that the problem is
    > limited as I guess those are fairly unlikely to be found in machines that
    > have an ISA bus.
    >
    > I also think the way I've implemented in the Debian installer should be
    > relatively safe:
    > 1) ide-generic is only loaded _after_ any otherwise detected modules
    > 2) it is only loaded if an ISA bus is present
    > 3) it is only included in the initrd for the installed system if loading it
    > in the installer resulted in additional block devices appearing


    OK, great for x86 perhaps, what about other systems?

    > I would unload ide-generic in the installer if no additional block devices
    > appear, but unfortunately that's not possible as it is marked "permanent".
    >
    > By loading it after any other drivers I expect there will be no issues
    > during the installation (as the other driver will already have claimed the
    > device). Making sure it is only loaded for the installed system if actually
    > needed should avoid problems there.
    >
    > ATM I can only see this causing problems in systems that need both
    > ide-generic and some other driver as adding ide-generic in the initrd is
    > likely to result in it being loaded before that other driver.


    In the past debian would load ide-generic last. It worked great. Keep
    doing that. I am not aware of loading ide-generic after all the other
    drivers ever causing any harm in the older debian installers.

    > Again, if anyone has a better suggestion how to implement this (preferably
    > without asking the user whether he has a device that needs ide-generic,
    > which most users are unlikely to know anyway), I'd appreciate it.


    I would say just load the generic driver and let it grab whatever other
    drivers haven't already. If this causes a problem, then there is a
    kernel bug to be fixed. It shouldn't be the installers problem. After
    all what happens if ide-generic and all the other drivers are built in
    rather than modules? If that broke then the kernel already has issues,
    and as far as I can tell that isn't a problem.

    So just load it. If it didn't cause any additional ide ports to appear,
    then you can unload it again.

    --
    Len Sorensen
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  20. Re: No IDE drivers loaded for Toshiba Satellite 320 CDS

    > If a driver supports a device with dual interfaces, then it better
    > reserve both sets of ports to prevent the generic driver from trying to
    > use them.


    That isn't the problem. The generic driver doesn't know if there is
    another valid driver for the ports - how can it - and the other driver
    may not be loaded first so cannot reserve the ports. If you load the
    generic driver last then you should be fine, and the link order for IDE
    and libata puts acpi, pci generic and legacy at the end for good reason.

    Libata pata_legacy has some smarts in this area but they are only good
    for the common cases.

    Alan
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