Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:49:41 -0700, David Brownell wrote:[color=blue]
> It seems too many people are used to enabling a legacy RTC despite
> the Kconfig help/comments; the gentle approach hasn't worked.[/color]
Gentleness is not the point. The Kconfig help/comments where just
not clear at all.
FWIW, it's still confusing to have an option "Enhanced Real Time
Clock Support" under "Character Devices", then later an option
"Real Time Clock" one level higher, none of the two in any way
acknowledging the existence of the other one, and only after
naively selecting both, you are told that there is some sort of
conflict. Couldn't this be made more explicit, such as:
- mentioning in both options' help text that the other one
shouldn't be selected at the same time (if that's true)
- noting explicitly which of the two RTC options is the "legacy"
one (is it RTC_CLASS?)
- enhancing the conflict message, which reads, in git-current:
*** Conflicting RTC option has been selected, check GEN_RTC
*** RTC interfaces ***
Perhaps it's only me, but I do not know what to make of this.
HTH
T.
--
Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: [email]tilman@imap.cc[/email]
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection
Tilman Schmidt wrote:[color=blue]
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:49:41 -0700, David Brownell wrote:[color=green]
>> It seems too many people are used to enabling a legacy RTC despite the
>> Kconfig help/comments; the gentle approach hasn't worked.[/color]
>
> Gentleness is not the point. The Kconfig help/comments where just
> not clear at all.
>
> FWIW, it's still confusing to have an option "Enhanced Real Time
> Clock Support" under "Character Devices", then later an option
> "Real Time Clock" one level higher, none of the two in any way
> acknowledging the existence of the other one, and only after
> naively selecting both, you are told that there is some sort of
> conflict. Couldn't this be made more explicit, such as:
> - mentioning in both options' help text that the other one
> shouldn't be selected at the same time (if that's true)
> - noting explicitly which of the two RTC options is the "legacy"
> one (is it RTC_CLASS?)
> - enhancing the conflict message, which reads, in git-current:
> *** Conflicting RTC option has been selected, check GEN_RTC
> *** RTC interfaces ***[/color]
...
Exactly the issue. Mod++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Friday 28 March 2008, Tilman Schmidt wrote:[color=blue]
>
> FWIW, it's still confusing to have an option "Enhanced Real Time
> Clock Support" under "Character Devices", then later an option
> "Real Time Clock" one level higher, none of the two in any way
> acknowledging the existence of the other one, and only after
> naively selecting both, you are told that there is some sort of
> conflict.[/color]
You mean "still, after applying that patch I sent"? I don't
see how that could be; it doesn't allow both to be selected.
[color=blue]
> Couldn't this be made more explicit, such as:
> - mentioning in both options' help text that the other one
> shouldn't be selected at the same time (if that's true)[/color]
I think that'd be more confusing, since it's not possible.
Telling people not to do something will usually make them
think it's possible ...
[color=blue]
> - noting explicitly which of the two RTC options is the "legacy"
> one (is it RTC_CLASS?)[/color]
That term isn't visible through the Kconfig user interfaces,
so I'm not sure why it should be introduced except as part
of a strategy to get rid of all those old drivers. Which is
probably worth having, but isn't waht that patch addressed!
[color=blue]
> - enhancing the conflict message, which reads, in git-current:
> *** Conflicting RTC option has been selected, check GEN_RTC
> *** RTC interfaces ***
> Perhaps it's only me, but I do not know what to make of this.[/color]
Me either, since the patch I sent removed that message.
I'm now quite sure you did *NOT* apply and try that patch
before responding to it.
- Dave
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
[ CC's trimmed a bit ]
On Friday 28 March 2008, Mark Lord wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > +# These legacy RTC drivers just cause too many conflicts with the generic
> > +# RTC framework ... let's not even try to coexist any more.[/color]
> ...
>
> Thanks, David. *Could you perhaps also update the option descriptions
> to clearly indicate which set of RTCs are the new ones, and which are
> the old ones that are going away someday?[/color]
Hmm, I thought that would be clear from context.
"These" (drivers/char) legacy RTC drivers (old),
vs generic RTC framework (toplevel driver Kconfig).
Admittedly the *previous* Kconfig was troublesome,
at the UI level (vs. those comments outside the GUI).
A more general issue seems to be what to do with
those legacy RTC drivers. Few of them seem to
have maintainers. I don't want to own them, and
I doubt Alessandro does either. If their Kconfig
is going to change, I'd rather just see them all
flagged as deprecated ... with plans to delete them.
The RTCs in question being:
"RTC" ... replaced by new "rtc-cmos"
--> ready to deprecate now ?
"JS_RTC" ... a SPARC32 thing
--> bug?? no "js-rtc.c" in the tree! patch sent
"SGI_DS1286" ...
--> needs conversion to new framework
"SGI_IP27_RTC" ...
--> needs conversion to new framework
"GEN_RTC", "GEN_RTC_X" ... I never really saw the point
--> who uses this?
"EFI_RTC" ... IA64 only
--> needs conversion to new framework
"DS1302" ... M32R-specific, "rtc-ds1302" should replace it
--> ready to deprecate now?
Plus there are various chunks of RTC code elsewhere in the tree,
mostly in arch subdirectories, which should be phased out but
aren't such obvious targets.
[color=blue]
> I didn't find it at all obvious, and I still don't know which set my
> configured kernel is actually using.[/color]
If you enable the new framework, that's what it's
using; there should be no other options visible.
(At least, none that are even as loosely organized
as the drivers/char stuff.)
Else ... it's clearly not enabled! So it's some
other (legacy) RTC driver. I don't see the issue.
- Dave
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 01:04:38PM -0700, David Brownell wrote:[color=blue]
> [ CC's trimmed a bit ]
>
> On Friday 28 March 2008, Mark Lord wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > +# These legacy RTC drivers just cause too many conflicts with the generic
> > > +# RTC framework ... let's not even try to coexist any more.[/color]
> > ...
> >
> > Thanks, David. Â*Could you perhaps also update the option descriptions
> > to clearly indicate which set of RTCs are the new ones, and which are
> > the old ones that are going away someday?[/color]
>
> Hmm, I thought that would be clear from context.
> "These" (drivers/char) legacy RTC drivers (old),
> vs generic RTC framework (toplevel driver Kconfig).
>
> Admittedly the *previous* Kconfig was troublesome,
> at the UI level (vs. those comments outside the GUI).
>
>
> A more general issue seems to be what to do with
> those legacy RTC drivers. Few of them seem to
> have maintainers. I don't want to own them, and
> I doubt Alessandro does either. If their Kconfig
> is going to change, I'd rather just see them all
> flagged as deprecated ... with plans to delete them.
>
> The RTCs in question being:
>
> "RTC" ... replaced by new "rtc-cmos"
> --> ready to deprecate now ?[/color]
The only reason against killing it immediately seems to be SND_RTCTIMER.
[color=blue]
> "JS_RTC" ... a SPARC32 thing
> --> bug?? no "js-rtc.c" in the tree! patch sent[/color]
Where's the bug?
js-rtc is built from rtc.c
[color=blue]
>...
> "DS1302" ... M32R-specific, "rtc-ds1302" should replace it
> --> ready to deprecate now?
>...[/color]
Kconfig currently offers rtc-ds1302 only for an sh platform...
[color=blue]
> - Dave[/color]
cu
Adrian
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Friday 28 March 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > * "JS_RTC" ... a SPARC32 thing
> > ******--> bug?? no "js-rtc.c" in the tree! *patch sent[/color]
>
> Where's the bug?
> js-rtc is built from rtc.c[/color]
In which case, just enable rtc.c ... a "egrep -r 'JS_RTC|js-rtc'"
shows that it looks pretty pointless.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >...
> > * "DS1302" ... M32R-specific, "rtc-ds1302" should replace it
> > ******--> ready to deprecate now?
> >...[/color]
>
> Kconfig currently offers rtc-ds1302 only for an sh platform...[/color]
Right, I looked at that a bit more. The rtc-ds1302 code was
not written portably. If it were updated to get addresses
from platform resources -- like *normal* platform drivers do,
since the addresses are platform specific -- and if those two
M32R platforms got updated ... *then* this could be deprecated.
- Dave
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 02:23:45PM -0700, David Brownell wrote:[color=blue]
> On Friday 28 March 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Â* "JS_RTC" ... a SPARC32 thing
> > > Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*--> bug?? no "js-rtc.c" in the tree! Â*patch sent[/color]
> >
> > Where's the bug?
> > js-rtc is built from rtc.c[/color]
>
> In which case, just enable rtc.c ... a "egrep -r 'JS_RTC|js-rtc'"
> shows that it looks pretty pointless.
>...[/color]
grep for CONFIG_SUN_MOSTEK_RTC and you'll get the point.
[color=blue]
> - Dave[/color]
cu
Adrian
--
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"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
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Re: Kconfig RTC selection (was: 2.6.25-rc7: Ugh.)
On Friday 28 March 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > * "JS_RTC" ... a SPARC32 thing
> > > > ******--> bug?? no "js-rtc.c" in the tree! *patch sent
> > >
> > > Where's the bug?
> > > js-rtc is built from rtc.c[/color]
> >
> > In which case, just enable rtc.c ... a "egrep -r 'JS_RTC|js-rtc'"
> > shows that it looks pretty pointless.
> >...[/color]
>
> grep for CONFIG_SUN_MOSTEK_RTC and you'll get the point.[/color]
Right: it doesn't mention JS_RTC at all. Whatever is up
with that stuff, it's broken.
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