Twinax terminal pinout - IBM AS400

This is a discussion on Twinax terminal pinout - IBM AS400 ; Hi all ! I've got an AS/400 9402 to play with at home. I've also got some InfoWindowII terminals. However I have nothing to connect them and can't seem to find connectivity around me for a reasonable ( well.... almost ...

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Thread: Twinax terminal pinout

  1. Twinax terminal pinout

    Hi all !

    I've got an AS/400 9402 to play with at home. I've also got some
    InfoWindowII terminals.
    However I have nothing to connect them and can't seem to find connectivity
    around me for a reasonable ( well.... almost zero ) price.

    Now, twinax is just two wires after all. I think I could just temporarily
    hack a two-wires pinout.

    So here it goes : on the AS/400 the console port is a DB25. On the terminal
    it is a DB15 or a DB25.

    Anyone's got the pinout ? what do I solder where ?

    Thanks for your help ! It's very frustrating to have this beast and be stuck
    bay a few inches of copper !


    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org




  2. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Alex

    It is possible to mock up a twinax connection, I have a number of
    clients who run the TDLC connection over CAT5 and a couple who use
    bell wire (latter not recommended)

    It will be easier for you to just focus on the point after the Twinax
    T-Piece not trying to connect to the DB15/25 plugs, as these plugs
    also carry controls for the two twinax lines and end of line
    termination.

    So, if I were you I would pursue one of the following 3 options:

    1) Search eBay for a pair of Twinax to CAT5 Balans, these convert the
    Twinax connection to normal CAT5 patch cables and back.

    2) Find a spare piece of Twinax cable and Hack then ends of and then
    solder these to the cable you wish to run.

    3) Look on eBay for a network card for your 9402 (assuming it has a
    spare SPD slot) and connect to it via Ethernet or Token Ring.

    If you are ever in the UK and want to collect them, I have spares of
    all 3 of these options that you are well come to free of charge, in
    fact I would be happy to give a way some of my older AS/400's Model
    600, Model 150, Model P03.

    If you are interested, send me an email, if not, no problem and good
    luck with the cabling!

    Brad



  3. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Hi Thorbjørn

    It's a bit of a messy subject but in general my understanding is that
    the License for OS/400 would transfer with the server and so would be
    legal to use at zero cost but some of the other Licensed Programs like
    PDM or Performance Tools, do not transfer FOC.

    It seems to be a little different when the server were sold as
    packaged machines, such as the Model 150 and the new Express 520s, in
    this case I believe you would be entittled to more of the Licenced
    Programs.

    All that said, you would be mad to run your business on such a server
    without taking our the appropraite IBM H/w and S/w support licences
    but if you wanted a server to experiment on and do all those things
    that you dare not do to a live model, they are ideal!

    I'm lucky in that respect as I work for a fairly large IBM Partner
    and have many spare servers I can experiment on, we often upgrade the
    ones at the top and these have a trickle down effect meaning that we
    collected a number of servers that we just no longer need.

    Never mind, they do not eat much and make good coffee tables! ;-)

    Regards, Brad


  4. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    "Brad" writes:

    > It's a bit of a messy subject but in general my understanding is that
    > the License for OS/400 would transfer with the server and so would be
    > legal to use at zero cost but some of the other Licensed Programs like
    > PDM or Performance Tools, do not transfer FOC.


    Thank you for your reply (although I am not much wiser

    The reason for this is that I work in an AS/400 shop too, but much
    smaller and with a very conservative attitude towards what can be put
    on the server.

    I am therefore wondering if I could reasonably get my own
    test machine to play with these things. Notably the Linux/AIX things
    as I come from a Unix world, and I think it is fun

    > and have many spare servers I can experiment on, we often upgrade the
    > ones at the top and these have a trickle down effect meaning that we
    > collected a number of servers that we just no longer need.


    Must be quite a big shop there. We only have a few and they live for
    VERY long time.

    >
    > Never mind, they do not eat much and make good coffee tables! ;-)


    You got a point there Just to be able to point out that the
    coffetable probably is the most expensive item in the neighbourhood
    (although I got it cheap) has a certain ring to it.

    --
    Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen

  5. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Thorbjørn

    It's a big-ish shop but not huge. Don't have any spare that you could
    LPAR or run Hosted Linux partitions but could muster one that would
    PASE, Limited Java and some Unix under Qshell, you should check ebay,
    they might be cheaper than you think.

    Failing that, you need to look me up next time you are in the UK.

    Either way good to chat.

    Brad


  6. Re: Twinax terminal pinout


    "Brad" a écrit dans le message de news:
    1171706496.552400.147490@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups. com...
    > Alex
    >
    > It is possible to mock up a twinax connection, I have a number of
    > clients who run the TDLC connection over CAT5 and a couple who use
    > bell wire (latter not recommended)


    baluns. Yes I've heard of those, but not come by any yet. It is a solution I
    would not disregard, provided they exist with the 15pin and 25 pin
    connectors. I don't a single true twinax equipment.

    > It will be easier for you to just focus on the point after the Twinax
    > T-Piece not trying to connect to the DB15/25 plugs, as these plugs
    > also carry controls for the two twinax lines and end of line
    > termination.


    then where do those control lines go ? are they multiplexed to the 2 wires
    of twinax by the Y-cables ? I thought only 2 wires of those 15-pin
    connectors would be used.

    > So, if I were you I would pursue one of the following 3 options:
    >
    > 1) Search eBay for a pair of Twinax to CAT5 Balans, these convert the
    > Twinax connection to normal CAT5 patch cables and back.
    >
    > 2) Find a spare piece of Twinax cable and Hack then ends of and then
    > solder these to the cable you wish to run.
    >
    > 3) Look on eBay for a network card for your 9402 (assuming it has a
    > spare SPD slot) and connect to it via Ethernet or Token Ring.


    I already have one. But I don't know if it's useable at all. Chances are the
    beast was used in S/36 compatibility mode, and anyway I have no info : no
    password, no IP address, nothing. So a dumb terminal hooked to one of the
    standard ports would be easier to start with, I think. Once I get access to
    the machine, I will investigate LAN connection.

    > If you are ever in the UK and want to collect them, I have spares of
    > all 3 of these options that you are well come to free of charge, in
    > fact I would be happy to give a way some of my older AS/400's Model
    > 600, Model 150, Model P03.


    I'm not *that* far, but still in the south of France. Pickup will not be
    easy. Unless you'd be willing to throw this to the postman ? I'd pay all
    costs, obviously.

    errr... I mean, for the connectors and cables. Not the whole AS/400s ;-).
    Actually if we were closer from each other, I would already be sitting next
    to your door with my car ready to take those

    Thanks for your help and proposals however. I appreciate !
    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  7. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Like these:

    http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Net.../dp/B00005109R

    In news:45d9a998$0$27405$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr,
    Alex typed:
    > "Brad" a écrit dans le message de news:
    > 1171706496.552400.147490@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups. com...
    >> Alex
    >>
    >> It is possible to mock up a twinax connection, I have a number of
    >> clients who run the TDLC connection over CAT5 and a couple who use
    >> bell wire (latter not recommended)

    >
    > baluns. Yes I've heard of those, but not come by any yet. It is a
    > solution I would not disregard, provided they exist with the 15pin
    > and 25 pin connectors. I don't a single true twinax equipment.
    >
    >> It will be easier for you to just focus on the point after the Twinax
    >> T-Piece not trying to connect to the DB15/25 plugs, as these plugs
    >> also carry controls for the two twinax lines and end of line
    >> termination.

    >
    > then where do those control lines go ? are they multiplexed to the 2
    > wires of twinax by the Y-cables ? I thought only 2 wires of those
    > 15-pin connectors would be used.
    >
    >> So, if I were you I would pursue one of the following 3 options:
    >>
    >> 1) Search eBay for a pair of Twinax to CAT5 Balans, these convert the
    >> Twinax connection to normal CAT5 patch cables and back.
    >>
    >> 2) Find a spare piece of Twinax cable and Hack then ends of and then
    >> solder these to the cable you wish to run.
    >>
    >> 3) Look on eBay for a network card for your 9402 (assuming it has a
    >> spare SPD slot) and connect to it via Ethernet or Token Ring.

    >
    > I already have one. But I don't know if it's useable at all. Chances
    > are the beast was used in S/36 compatibility mode, and anyway I have
    > no info : no password, no IP address, nothing. So a dumb terminal
    > hooked to one of the standard ports would be easier to start with, I
    > think. Once I get access to the machine, I will investigate LAN
    > connection.
    >> If you are ever in the UK and want to collect them, I have spares of
    >> all 3 of these options that you are well come to free of charge, in
    >> fact I would be happy to give a way some of my older AS/400's Model
    >> 600, Model 150, Model P03.

    >
    > I'm not *that* far, but still in the south of France. Pickup will not
    > be easy. Unless you'd be willing to throw this to the postman ? I'd
    > pay all costs, obviously.
    >
    > errr... I mean, for the connectors and cables. Not the whole AS/400s
    > ;-). Actually if we were closer from each other, I would already be
    > sitting next to your door with my car ready to take those
    >
    > Thanks for your help and proposals however. I appreciate !




  8. Re: Twinax terminal pinout


    "Pjotr" a écrit dans le message de news:
    45d9bb5d$0$745$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    > Like these:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Net.../dp/B00005109R


    Yes... But I can't find any around myself.

    There are plenty of those on ebay US and Germany, but I'm in France ;-)

    Hacking an old serial cable (I have lots of old DB25 plugs) looks simpler
    and cheaper.

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  9. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    In news:45d9d3a0$0$5069$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr,
    Alex typed:
    > "Pjotr" a écrit dans le message de news:
    > 45d9bb5d$0$745$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    >> Like these:
    >>
    >> http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Net.../dp/B00005109R

    >
    > Yes... But I can't find any around myself.
    >
    > There are plenty of those on ebay US and Germany, but I'm in France
    > ;-)
    > Hacking an old serial cable (I have lots of old DB25 plugs) looks
    > simpler and cheaper.


    Alex,

    I have 2 of those baluns here. I will send them if you
    send me an email with your complete address to
    psn2106 at hotmail dot com
    Use the at sign and put the dot in place and remove the spaces.
    I will check in tomorrow.

    Cheers,
    Pjotr



  10. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    "Brad" writes:

    > Thorbjørn
    >
    > It's a big-ish shop but not huge. Don't have any spare that you could
    > LPAR or run Hosted Linux partitions but could muster one that would
    > PASE, Limited Java and some Unix under Qshell, you should check ebay,
    > they might be cheaper than you think.
    >
    > Failing that, you need to look me up next time you are in the UK.


    Even though I am just a country over (DK) I rarely come outside the
    border. You never know though.

    If the one that was phased out internally earlier has not been sold
    yet, I'll ask if they just want to dump it at my house.

    My primary interest would be "running" Linux either primarily or along
    OS/400, since that is where I think that the next extension regarding
    PASE and AIX will happen (but I don't want to convince my boss that it
    is so).

    > Either way good to chat.


    Likewise. I appreciate this helpful and knowledgable newsgroup which
    have given me useful information many times.
    --
    Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen

  11. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Alex schreef:
    > Hi all !
    >
    > I've got an AS/400 9402 to play with at home. I've also got some
    > InfoWindowII terminals.
    > However I have nothing to connect them and can't seem to find connectivity
    > around me for a reasonable ( well.... almost zero ) price.
    >
    > Now, twinax is just two wires after all. I think I could just temporarily
    > hack a two-wires pinout.
    >
    > So here it goes : on the AS/400 the console port is a DB25. On the terminal
    > it is a DB15 or a DB25.
    >
    > Anyone's got the pinout ? what do I solder where ?
    >
    > Thanks for your help ! It's very frustrating to have this beast and be stuck
    > bay a few inches of copper !
    >
    >

    If you want to run TwinAx, you need a TwinAx workstation controller.
    That's it. Most likely you've got a 150. The DB9 and DB25 (on a PCI
    card) connectors are NOT for terminals but for are serial and parallel
    ports from the FSIOP. One DB9 (on the box itself) is for a UPS, the
    other DB9 is labeled MI (Machine Interface?) and I don't know what it's
    used for, but it's not TwinAx.

    Client Access Console (System Console) connects to the bottom PCI comms
    card, to the DB9 connector (righthand connector when viewed from the
    back). It attaches to a PC DB9 port and requires a special cable. On the
    PC You need to run Client Access 3.1 or 3.2 and configure a 5250 session
    as CA Console.

    --
    Vriendelijke groeten / Best regards,

    René H. Hartman
    www.hac-maarssen.nl

  12. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Alex schreef:
    > Hi all !
    >
    > I've got an AS/400 9402 to play with at home. I've also got some
    > InfoWindowII terminals.
    > However I have nothing to connect them and can't seem to find connectivity
    > around me for a reasonable ( well.... almost zero ) price.
    >
    > Now, twinax is just two wires after all. I think I could just temporarily
    > hack a two-wires pinout.
    >
    > So here it goes : on the AS/400 the console port is a DB25. On the terminal
    > it is a DB15 or a DB25.
    >
    > Anyone's got the pinout ? what do I solder where ?
    >
    > Thanks for your help ! It's very frustrating to have this beast and be stuck
    > bay a few inches of copper !
    >
    >

    Forget my previous post; a 150 is a 9401. What have you got (Model# please)?

    --
    Vriendelijke groeten / Best regards,

    René H. Hartman
    www.hac-maarssen.nl

  13. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Just as useless historical trivia, I think the "MI" port is a
    "Manufacturing Interface" where they attach a cable to a test rig for
    testing at the factory. (I think I remember hearing that the test rig
    was at one time an RS/6000.)

    --Dave

    René H. Hartman wrote:
    > the
    > other DB9 is labeled MI (Machine Interface?) and I don't know what it's
    > used for, but it's not TwinAx.


  14. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    ""René H. Hartman"" a écrit dans le message de news:
    45db3999$0$746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    > Forget my previous post; a 150 is a 9401. What have you got (Model#
    > please)?


    Yes I guessed there was a misunderstanding. Mine is a 9402 436 (said to be
    running OS/400 and SSP). So there is no PCI bus.

    What I have identified :
    6606 1.96GB SCSI x3
    6135 External 5.25 diskette (I only have the board, not the drive)
    9380 2.5GB 1/4inch cartridge

    2623 Six line comm controller
    2613 V.35 oneline adapter (qty. 2)
    2609 EIA232/V.24 twoline adapter (qty. 2) (one of them is "inside" the 2623)
    2617 ethernet board
    6146 diskette adapter

    And on the back, there are 3 ports screwed to the chassis :
    - MI (db9)
    - UPS (db9)
    - and a DB25 female <--- first investigations on this ng tend to say that
    this is the "main" console port (I'm not very familiar with AS/400 wording
    yet).

    There is no real twinax port on the box.

    And I have a bunch of dumb terminals. 3486 is the ref. They have a DB15F and
    a DB25F.

    I have nothing twinax but a Y cable DB15M->2x twinax.

    So I guess I could just do without twinax at all and connect directly the
    DB15 and DB25. The question is : how ?

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  15. Re: Twinax terminal pinout


    "Pjotr" a écrit dans le message de news:
    45da0e08$0$726$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    > I have 2 of those baluns here. I will send them if you
    > send me an email with your complete address to
    > psn2106 at hotmail dot com


    Hi Pjotr !

    That is very nice from you !

    I'll give you my details by PM. But before you go through the hassle of
    sending those, I wanted to doublecheck : I have no real twinax plugs
    anywhere (neither on the computer nor on the terminals). Are those baluns
    twinax<->rj45 or are they DB15/DB25 <-> RJ45 ?

    Thanks again !
    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  16. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    In news:45dc0a9e$0$5085$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr,
    Alex typed:
    > "Pjotr" a écrit dans le message de news:
    > 45da0e08$0$726$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    >> I have 2 of those baluns here. I will send them if you
    >> send me an email with your complete address to
    >> psn2106 at hotmail dot com

    >
    > Hi Pjotr !
    >
    > That is very nice from you !
    >
    > I'll give you my details by PM. But before you go through the hassle
    > of sending those, I wanted to doublecheck : I have no real twinax
    > plugs anywhere (neither on the computer nor on the terminals). Are
    > those baluns twinax<->rj45 or are they DB15/DB25 <-> RJ45 ?


    They are twinax <-> RJ45.
    You will also need the black block with 4 or 8 twinax connections to which
    a cable is connected with on the other end a DB9 or DB15 (I count 9 pins)
    plug,
    like you see here:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-72X5645-4-Po...QQcmdZViewItem

    The DB9 connects to the back of the machine.

    Cheers,
    Pjotr



  17. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Just did this about 4 months ago with a 620 I got from a client. You
    will need a 4/8 twinax black box connected to the workstation
    controller. You will then need 2 twinax to RJ12 balons. Here is the
    importatn part. The baluns are connected by phone connectors(rj11 or
    rj12 connectors - they are the same physical size), but you CAN NOT
    USE RJ11 - which is 4 wires, you MUST use 6 wire. I beleive the pinout
    is 1 and 6, so a normal RJ11, 4 wire will not work. I can get you the
    actual pinout tonight when I get home if you send me and the group and
    email. I will not answer unless you include the group(like to give
    back a little to this GREAT group).
    Brian

    shopping "at" datawhouse "dot com"


  18. Re: Twinax terminal pinout


    a écrit dans le message de news:
    1172059456.094530.223760@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups. com...
    > Just did this about 4 months ago with a 620 I got from a client. You
    > will need a 4/8 twinax black box connected to the workstation
    > controller. You will then need 2 twinax to RJ12 balons. Here is the
    > importatn part. The baluns are connected by phone connectors(rj11 or
    > rj12 connectors - they are the same physical size), but you CAN NOT
    > USE RJ11 - which is 4 wires, you MUST use 6 wire. I beleive the pinout
    > is 1 and 6, so a normal RJ11, 4 wire will not work. I can get you the
    > actual pinout tonight when I get home if you send me and the group and
    > email. I will not answer unless you include the group(like to give
    > back a little to this GREAT group).


    I'd really appreciate to get that pinout ! Feel free to send to the group
    and/or my address (I use a valid address).

    Thanks !

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  19. Re: Twinax terminal pinout



    "Pjotr" a écrit dans le message de news:
    45dc17d2$0$717$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...

    > They are twinax <-> RJ45.
    > You will also need the black block with 4 or 8 twinax connections to which
    > a cable is connected with on the other end a DB9 or DB15 (I count 9 pins)
    > plug, (snip)


    Yes, I know I also need one of those blocks.

    But I have neither these nor the baluns. That's why I'd like to know the
    pinout of the ports on the machine and on the terminal, so that I can
    connect them directly. Soldering is not a problem. But I have to know what
    wires to use.

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  20. Re: Twinax terminal pinout

    Alex schreef:
    > ""René H. Hartman"" a écrit dans le message de news:
    > 45db3999$0$746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
    >> Forget my previous post; a 150 is a 9401. What have you got (Model#
    >> please)?

    >
    > Yes I guessed there was a misunderstanding. Mine is a 9402 436 (said to be
    > running OS/400 and SSP). So there is no PCI bus.
    >
    > What I have identified :
    > 6606 1.96GB SCSI x3
    > 6135 External 5.25 diskette (I only have the board, not the drive)
    > 9380 2.5GB 1/4inch cartridge
    >
    > 2623 Six line comm controller
    > 2613 V.35 oneline adapter (qty. 2)
    > 2609 EIA232/V.24 twoline adapter (qty. 2) (one of them is "inside" the 2623)
    > 2617 ethernet board
    > 6146 diskette adapter
    >
    > And on the back, there are 3 ports screwed to the chassis :
    > - MI (db9)
    > - UPS (db9)
    > - and a DB25 female <--- first investigations on this ng tend to say that
    > this is the "main" console port (I'm not very familiar with AS/400 wording
    > yet).
    >
    > There is no real twinax port on the box.
    >
    > And I have a bunch of dumb terminals. 3486 is the ref. They have a DB15F and
    > a DB25F.
    >
    > I have nothing twinax but a Y cable DB15M->2x twinax.
    >
    > So I guess I could just do without twinax at all and connect directly the
    > DB15 and DB25. The question is : how ?
    >

    OK. So in fact you've got an advanced S/36. The DB15 to dual twinax goes
    onto the DB15 connector on the 3486. The DB25 on that terminal is for a
    parallel printer session.

    If the big black 8-port twinax blok you need is the same that goes onto
    older style AS/400 I got one here (NL).

    Then you need a twinax cable to interconnect them, or 2 baluns and cat5
    utp or stp cabling.

    The system connector block is probably expensive shipping, as it is
    quite heavy, with the long cable and all. As twinax is pretty sensitive
    to impedance and proper termination you will most likely not have much
    luck in connecting a cable straight to the DB25.

    --
    Vriendelijke groeten / Best regards,

    René H. Hartman
    www.hac-maarssen.nl

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