9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ? - IBM AS400

This is a discussion on 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ? - IBM AS400 ; Hi ! I've just inherited an old AS/400 9402 436 Advanced/36. It dates back to the mid-90s, AFAIK . I'm planning to use it to learn a bit about the AS/400 and OS/400 in general (maybe also SSP). With it, ...

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Thread: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

  1. 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    Hi !

    I've just inherited an old AS/400 9402 436 Advanced/36. It dates back to the
    mid-90s, AFAIK.
    I'm planning to use it to learn a bit about the AS/400 and OS/400 in general
    (maybe also SSP).

    With it, I got a few InfoWindow II 3486 terminals, and some cables. Not that
    many cables actually.

    My current problem is to know how to plug everything. There are a lot of
    plugs on the back of the machine. There is an ethernet port, I will link it
    to my home network, but since I haven't got the IP address, it's of no use
    up to now.

    So now, I am left with several other line ports. How does it work ? is there
    a "main" port that should be used for the operator's console, or are all
    ports the same ?

    If I understand correctly IBM's CISC System Builder Redpaper, the rest of
    the plugs I have are modules #2623s (Six line communication controllers),
    #2613s (v35 one line adapters) and #2609s (EIA232/v.24 twoline adapters).

    Some of them are DB15, other are DB25, and some have an unknown (to me) form
    factor : like a DB25, but with 3 lines of pins. I don't have any cable like
    that.

    So what do I do ? where should I start ?

    Thanks for your help,
    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  2. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    Alex...

    A few thing here in addition to answers to your questions. I am a
    Technical Services Specialist and have probably installed 500 or so of
    these 9402 / AS-36 systems. Actually I still have a few dozen AS-36's
    in service and a couple of them are running the multi op sys (OS-400 /
    AS-36). Do you know if this system is scratched or not and if not does
    it have OS-400 installed? Very important to know is that OS-400 is a
    licensed product, as is everything else on the system, but if the
    release if V4RxMx up or greater there are License Keys that are
    required for proper operations. If you have an operational system and
    it was given to you then these keys can be transferred to you through
    the IBM entitlement process. If the system is scratched then anyone can
    loan you the cd's to rebuild this system but you will only operate for
    70 days in the bypass mode before the system locks down. If you are
    planning on scratching the system then make sure to capture these keys
    before you proceed so they can be re-installed. Now... If the system
    is at V3R6M0 or V3R7M0 then you are OK and can also reload at these
    levels. If the system is only running SSP the release will be R7M5 and
    there is no Version marker. ("V") If this is the case then OS-400 is
    not installed and if you plan on installing OS-400 your will need to be
    aware of the above notes plus OS-400 becomes the "Host" system and SSP
    becomes a "Guest" You will need two consoles with this scenario as you
    will also if the system is operational and currently has a Host / Guest
    configuration. The Host system will IPL to DST and OS-400 and the guest
    is Started or IPL'ed from the command line or a procedure that auto
    starts from the OS-400 startup configuration. A little confusing for
    most people (even savvy AS-400 types) since this host / guest
    configuration was for specific operations and environments or
    established in preparation to SSP to OS-400 migrations and conversions.
    I installed about 70 of these systems in a specific application for a
    customer during Y2K as a hardware upgrade and stream-lined the
    configuration so the "Host" (OS-400) system was actually invisible for
    the most part since all of the operators only knew SSP and training the
    to understand OS-400 or the AS-400 procedures and commands would have
    been a nightmare. So as you see this is actually a versatile system and
    a popular migration path from "White" box pre-Y2K SSP systems and early
    generation multi- OP Sys environments.

    Hope that sheds a little light on you questions especially about
    learning SSP / OS-400 in general. Next thing is that if OS-400 is not
    installed there is not traditional Ethernet support on the system
    running SSP only. Even if there is a FC-2617 card installed you will
    not be able to configure Ethernet anywhere running SSP only. This would
    be one of the examples where the Host (OS-400) system (that does
    support and provides Ethernet / subnet /and gateway configurations)
    would allow local device configurations on the "Host" and the internal
    "I-LAN" between the two systems would allow for transfer applications
    on the SSP "Guest". If the card that you see installed is a type
    FC-2619 or FC-2626 then those are IEEE 802.5 Token Ring and a absolute
    pain in the ass to configure on a the SSP only system. It will work and
    allow for 4mb Token Ring interfacing but good luck. A lot of the
    systems were shipped with TR and not Ethernet back in the days because
    in the perfect IBM world you were to follow there role and that was TR
    and OS-2 for example. See where both of those tailed off in the long
    run. If the network interface card is FC-2617 then that is a 10mb
    standard Ethernet card but as with everything IBM... You still have to
    role your sleeves up to work the bug out of the simplest configuration
    because IBM uses "Host Translation Tables" and default routes even for
    the 192.168.x.x or 10.10.x.x environments. Moving on to the consoles,
    and this is required, you will need to find the 8 - Port Twinax "Block"
    PN# 21F5093 SC-9842 and plug it in to position "5C". If this system is
    "One" wide then that is the TOP / LEFT 25 pin connector (Built into the
    system frame) above the two "Daughter" cards in "5A" and "5B" (Usually
    FC-2609, FC-2612, or FC-6146 types). If this is a "Two" wide system
    unit with the 4 Card (SPD) expansion frame then this connector will
    appear in the center of the system still above the daughter cards
    plugged into the MFIOP. Note: A "One" Wide system has the power cable
    plugged in to the only slot available and a "Two" wide system the cable
    plugged into the left power supply with a pig tail that provides juice
    to the right side power supply. Once the Twinax "Brick" is in place you
    would then use a standard "Twinax" cable ASM to connect the system
    console to the system. You have to use PORT - 0 and the address for the
    Host or primary system console has to be ADDRESS - 0. The other cables
    are various communications cable as you have already figured out.

    Good News... There are some fantastic manuals available that will walk
    you through the entire setup, preparation and configuration processes.
    Also depending on your scenario there are manual that explain the
    operation systems and the multiple operations system environments not
    to mention all the 100's of manuals that are related to the OS-400 /
    AS-400 system and applications. I have dropped a couple of link on my
    "Furl" account for you to get started. I hope you have used "Furl", if
    not then please go to www.furl.net and sign up. This is a pretty cool
    and free web site that allows you to save your bookmarks online so they
    are available from any system or as I also use it to allow other access
    to some of my research. My IBM saves, or Web Files as they call they,
    are public and are available for you to view. These are link to the PDF
    manuals online from IBM. Once you get online with Furl you go to
    "Others' Archives" My first name is "J D" and my username is
    "MainFrame". You would then click on my account and this will put you
    in my personal web file archive. I just dropped a few manuals there for
    you and they should be on the top but please "Filter by Topic" and
    select IBM AS-400 to narrow this list. Also if you search for "IBM
    Online Library" you will find a master link to IBM's online PDF manuals
    for the AS-400 systems and related topics.

    I will be glad to provide some simple assistance but I also stay pretty
    busy with work and travel installing and upgrading IBM AS-400 systems.
    I am one of just a few "Independent" Technical Services Specialist that
    focuses mostly on the AS-400 platform. My e-mail and information is
    available using Furl, just filter on IBM AS-400 and search for "IBM
    Installer" or my Business Card is Online at www.AS400installer.com


    Good Luck -- J D --


    Alex wrote:
    > Hi !
    >
    > I've just inherited an old AS/400 9402 436 Advanced/36. It dates back to the
    > mid-90s, AFAIK.
    > I'm planning to use it to learn a bit about the AS/400 and OS/400 in general
    > (maybe also SSP).
    >
    > With it, I got a few InfoWindow II 3486 terminals, and some cables. Not that
    > many cables actually.
    >
    > My current problem is to know how to plug everything. There are a lot of
    > plugs on the back of the machine. There is an ethernet port, I will link it
    > to my home network, but since I haven't got the IP address, it's of no use
    > up to now.
    >
    > So now, I am left with several other line ports. How does it work ? is there
    > a "main" port that should be used for the operator's console, or are all
    > ports the same ?
    >
    > If I understand correctly IBM's CISC System Builder Redpaper, the rest of
    > the plugs I have are modules #2623s (Six line communication controllers),
    > #2613s (v35 one line adapters) and #2609s (EIA232/v.24 twoline adapters).
    >
    > Some of them are DB15, other are DB25, and some have an unknown (to me) form
    > factor : like a DB25, but with 3 lines of pins. I don't have any cable like
    > that.
    >
    > So what do I do ? where should I start ?
    >
    > Thanks for your help,
    > --
    > Alex
    > [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    > autres jeux de role.
    > www.extremia.org



  3. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    "MainFrame" wrote in message
    news:1165866854.768897.3290@j44g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
    > Alex...
    >
    > A few thing here in addition to answers to your questions. I am a


    Actually, I didnt expect that many "few things" :-))

    > Technical Services Specialist and have probably installed 500 or so of
    > these 9402 / AS-36 systems. Actually I still have a few dozen AS-36's
    > in service and a couple of them are running the multi op sys (OS-400 /
    > AS-36). Do you know if this system is scratched or not and if not does
    > it have OS-400 installed? Very important to know is that OS-400 is a


    I don't know. From the environment, I'd say it's still set up : the company
    has moved to a newer AS/400 and just put this one in a corner of the room
    after migrating the data. So it should work.

    > licensed product, as is everything else on the system, but if the
    > release if V4RxMx up or greater there are License Keys that are
    > required for proper operations. If you have an operational system and
    > it was given to you then these keys can be transferred to you through
    > the IBM entitlement process. If the system is scratched then anyone can


    I'll try to learn about that process. It may be worthwhile in the long term.

    > loan you the cd's to rebuild this system but you will only operate for
    > 70 days in the bypass mode before the system locks down. If you are
    > planning on scratching the system then make sure to capture these keys
    > before you proceed so they can be re-installed. Now... If the system


    OK I'll ask this when I'll have access to the OS in the box.

    > is at V3R6M0 or V3R7M0 then you are OK and can also reload at these
    > levels. If the system is only running SSP the release will be R7M5 and
    > there is no Version marker. ("V") If this is the case then OS-400 is
    > not installed and if you plan on installing OS-400 your will need to be


    I don't know since I couldnt fire it up yet, but there is a sticker on the
    case with V3R7 written on it. So I guess OS/400 is there.

    > aware of the above notes plus OS-400 becomes the "Host" system and SSP
    > becomes a "Guest" You will need two consoles with this scenario as you
    > will also if the system is operational and currently has a Host / Guest
    > configuration. The Host system will IPL to DST and OS-400 and the guest
    > is Started or IPL'ed from the command line or a procedure that auto
    > starts from the OS-400 startup configuration. A little confusing for
    > most people (even savvy AS-400 types) since this host / guest
    > configuration was for specific operations and environments or
    > established in preparation to SSP to OS-400 migrations and conversions.


    OK, I understand the principle. I'm also working on S/390, and there are
    similar concepts there.

    > I installed about 70 of these systems in a specific application for a
    > customer during Y2K as a hardware upgrade and stream-lined the
    > configuration so the "Host" (OS-400) system was actually invisible for
    > the most part since all of the operators only knew SSP and training the
    > to understand OS-400 or the AS-400 procedures and commands would have
    > been a nightmare. So as you see this is actually a versatile system and
    > a popular migration path from "White" box pre-Y2K SSP systems and early
    > generation multi- OP Sys environments.


    Actually, the next step will be to dig up the two S/36 5363 that were there
    even before that AS. But that will be another story.

    > Hope that sheds a little light on you questions especially about
    > learning SSP / OS-400 in general. Next thing is that if OS-400 is not
    > installed there is not traditional Ethernet support on the system
    > running SSP only. Even if there is a FC-2617 card installed you will
    > not be able to configure Ethernet anywhere running SSP only. This would


    OK. But the presence of the FC-2617 and the V3R7 sticker (and 3x 2GB drives)
    are good indicators that OS/400 should be there.

    (...)
    > run. If the network interface card is FC-2617 then that is a 10mb
    > standard Ethernet card but as with everything IBM... You still have to
    > role your sleeves up to work the bug out of the simplest configuration
    > because IBM uses "Host Translation Tables" and default routes even for
    > the 192.168.x.x or 10.10.x.x environments. Moving on to the consoles,


    It's definitely Ethernet, with an AUI port. It would be really nice to have
    that work, but that's gonna be in the future.

    > and this is required, you will need to find the 8 - Port Twinax "Block"
    > PN# 21F5093 SC-9842 and plug it in to position "5C". If this system is


    I finally came across a drawing on the online IBM doc that shows that piece.
    I definitely don't have it !! So I guess I'm stuck until I find one. I will
    go and search where I found the machine, but I suspect that kind of thing
    will have been reused with the current setup.

    > "One" wide then that is the TOP / LEFT 25 pin connector (Built into the
    > system frame) above the two "Daughter" cards in "5A" and "5B" (Usually
    > FC-2609, FC-2612, or FC-6146 types). If this is a "Two" wide system


    OK that's it. So it is not a simple RS-232 as I could find on an older PC ?

    > unit with the 4 Card (SPD) expansion frame then this connector will
    > appear in the center of the system still above the daughter cards
    > plugged into the MFIOP. Note: A "One" Wide system has the power cable
    > plugged in to the only slot available and a "Two" wide system the cable
    > plugged into the left power supply with a pig tail that provides juice
    > to the right side power supply. Once the Twinax "Brick" is in place you
    > would then use a standard "Twinax" cable ASM to connect the system
    > console to the system. You have to use PORT - 0 and the address for the
    > Host or primary system console has to be ADDRESS - 0. The other cables
    > are various communications cable as you have already figured out.


    OK, so it seems I have cable that go on the "terminal side", but not those
    that go to the "machine side". ****. I'm stuck here !

    However : is it possible to use a cable that does DB25->DB15 directly from
    the position 5C to the DB15 of the 3486 terminal ?

    > Good News... There are some fantastic manuals available that will walk
    > you through the entire setup, preparation and configuration processes.


    yes.. one end of the problem is that when you search for 9402 or advanced/36
    on the IBM site, you get close to nothing.

    > Also depending on your scenario there are manual that explain the
    > operation systems and the multiple operations system environments not
    > to mention all the 100's of manuals that are related to the OS-400 /


    That's the other end of the problem : searching on AS/400 only gives you
    12000 results. I can't read all of that in my lifetime

    > AS-400 system and applications. I have dropped a couple of link on my
    > "Furl" account for you to get started. I hope you have used "Furl", if

    (...)

    Very nice !! I'm gonna go and have a look asap.

    > I will be glad to provide some simple assistance but I also stay pretty
    > busy with work and travel installing and upgrading IBM AS-400 systems.
    > I am one of just a few "Independent" Technical Services Specialist that
    > focuses mostly on the AS-400 platform. My e-mail and information is
    > available using Furl, just filter on IBM AS-400 and search for "IBM
    > Installer" or my Business Card is Online at www.AS400installer.com


    You should not be worried in the coming days : it will take some time for me
    to read all of that. And unless I can plug directly the terminal to the 5C
    position, I won't be able to go any further.

    Ah yes one question : If I have NO console and I fire it up. How can I shut
    it down ? is it allright to simply press the white button on the front panel
    and expect the OS will close nicely ?

    > Good Luck -- J D --


    Thanks for your help, indeed.

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  4. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    we have a 8port twinax controller available. say $10 plus shipping.

    www.michsoft.com/36.html

    joe leblanc
    michigan software

    Alex wrote:
    > "MainFrame" wrote in message
    > news:1165866854.768897.3290@j44g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
    > > Alex...
    > >
    > > A few thing here in addition to answers to your questions. I am a

    >
    > Actually, I didnt expect that many "few things" :-))
    >
    > > Technical Services Specialist and have probably installed 500 or so of
    > > these 9402 / AS-36 systems. Actually I still have a few dozen AS-36's
    > > in service and a couple of them are running the multi op sys (OS-400 /
    > > AS-36). Do you know if this system is scratched or not and if not does
    > > it have OS-400 installed? Very important to know is that OS-400 is a

    >
    > I don't know. From the environment, I'd say it's still set up : the company
    > has moved to a newer AS/400 and just put this one in a corner of the room
    > after migrating the data. So it should work.
    >
    > > licensed product, as is everything else on the system, but if the
    > > release if V4RxMx up or greater there are License Keys that are
    > > required for proper operations. If you have an operational system and
    > > it was given to you then these keys can be transferred to you through
    > > the IBM entitlement process. If the system is scratched then anyone can

    >
    > I'll try to learn about that process. It may be worthwhile in the long term.
    >
    > > loan you the cd's to rebuild this system but you will only operate for
    > > 70 days in the bypass mode before the system locks down. If you are
    > > planning on scratching the system then make sure to capture these keys
    > > before you proceed so they can be re-installed. Now... If the system

    >
    > OK I'll ask this when I'll have access to the OS in the box.
    >
    > > is at V3R6M0 or V3R7M0 then you are OK and can also reload at these
    > > levels. If the system is only running SSP the release will be R7M5 and
    > > there is no Version marker. ("V") If this is the case then OS-400 is
    > > not installed and if you plan on installing OS-400 your will need to be

    >
    > I don't know since I couldnt fire it up yet, but there is a sticker on the
    > case with V3R7 written on it. So I guess OS/400 is there.
    >
    > > aware of the above notes plus OS-400 becomes the "Host" system and SSP
    > > becomes a "Guest" You will need two consoles with this scenario as you
    > > will also if the system is operational and currently has a Host / Guest
    > > configuration. The Host system will IPL to DST and OS-400 and the guest
    > > is Started or IPL'ed from the command line or a procedure that auto
    > > starts from the OS-400 startup configuration. A little confusing for
    > > most people (even savvy AS-400 types) since this host / guest
    > > configuration was for specific operations and environments or
    > > established in preparation to SSP to OS-400 migrations and conversions.

    >
    > OK, I understand the principle. I'm also working on S/390, and there are
    > similar concepts there.
    >
    > > I installed about 70 of these systems in a specific application for a
    > > customer during Y2K as a hardware upgrade and stream-lined the
    > > configuration so the "Host" (OS-400) system was actually invisible for
    > > the most part since all of the operators only knew SSP and training the
    > > to understand OS-400 or the AS-400 procedures and commands would have
    > > been a nightmare. So as you see this is actually a versatile system and
    > > a popular migration path from "White" box pre-Y2K SSP systems and early
    > > generation multi- OP Sys environments.

    >
    > Actually, the next step will be to dig up the two S/36 5363 that were there
    > even before that AS. But that will be another story.
    >
    > > Hope that sheds a little light on you questions especially about
    > > learning SSP / OS-400 in general. Next thing is that if OS-400 is not
    > > installed there is not traditional Ethernet support on the system
    > > running SSP only. Even if there is a FC-2617 card installed you will
    > > not be able to configure Ethernet anywhere running SSP only. This would

    >
    > OK. But the presence of the FC-2617 and the V3R7 sticker (and 3x 2GB drives)
    > are good indicators that OS/400 should be there.
    >
    > (...)
    > > run. If the network interface card is FC-2617 then that is a 10mb
    > > standard Ethernet card but as with everything IBM... You still have to
    > > role your sleeves up to work the bug out of the simplest configuration
    > > because IBM uses "Host Translation Tables" and default routes even for
    > > the 192.168.x.x or 10.10.x.x environments. Moving on to the consoles,

    >
    > It's definitely Ethernet, with an AUI port. It would be really nice to have
    > that work, but that's gonna be in the future.
    >
    > > and this is required, you will need to find the 8 - Port Twinax "Block"
    > > PN# 21F5093 SC-9842 and plug it in to position "5C". If this system is

    >
    > I finally came across a drawing on the online IBM doc that shows that piece.
    > I definitely don't have it !! So I guess I'm stuck until I find one. I will
    > go and search where I found the machine, but I suspect that kind of thing
    > will have been reused with the current setup.
    >
    > > "One" wide then that is the TOP / LEFT 25 pin connector (Built into the
    > > system frame) above the two "Daughter" cards in "5A" and "5B" (Usually
    > > FC-2609, FC-2612, or FC-6146 types). If this is a "Two" wide system

    >
    > OK that's it. So it is not a simple RS-232 as I could find on an older PC ?
    >
    > > unit with the 4 Card (SPD) expansion frame then this connector will
    > > appear in the center of the system still above the daughter cards
    > > plugged into the MFIOP. Note: A "One" Wide system has the power cable
    > > plugged in to the only slot available and a "Two" wide system the cable
    > > plugged into the left power supply with a pig tail that provides juice
    > > to the right side power supply. Once the Twinax "Brick" is in place you
    > > would then use a standard "Twinax" cable ASM to connect the system
    > > console to the system. You have to use PORT - 0 and the address for the
    > > Host or primary system console has to be ADDRESS - 0. The other cables
    > > are various communications cable as you have already figured out.

    >
    > OK, so it seems I have cable that go on the "terminal side", but not those
    > that go to the "machine side". ****. I'm stuck here !
    >
    > However : is it possible to use a cable that does DB25->DB15 directly from
    > the position 5C to the DB15 of the 3486 terminal ?
    >
    > > Good News... There are some fantastic manuals available that will walk
    > > you through the entire setup, preparation and configuration processes.

    >
    > yes.. one end of the problem is that when you search for 9402 or advanced/36
    > on the IBM site, you get close to nothing.
    >
    > > Also depending on your scenario there are manual that explain the
    > > operation systems and the multiple operations system environments not
    > > to mention all the 100's of manuals that are related to the OS-400 /

    >
    > That's the other end of the problem : searching on AS/400 only gives you
    > 12000 results. I can't read all of that in my lifetime
    >
    > > AS-400 system and applications. I have dropped a couple of link on my
    > > "Furl" account for you to get started. I hope you have used "Furl", if

    > (...)
    >
    > Very nice !! I'm gonna go and have a look asap.
    >
    > > I will be glad to provide some simple assistance but I also stay pretty
    > > busy with work and travel installing and upgrading IBM AS-400 systems.
    > > I am one of just a few "Independent" Technical Services Specialist that
    > > focuses mostly on the AS-400 platform. My e-mail and information is
    > > available using Furl, just filter on IBM AS-400 and search for "IBM
    > > Installer" or my Business Card is Online at www.AS400installer.com

    >
    > You should not be worried in the coming days : it will take some time for me
    > to read all of that. And unless I can plug directly the terminal to the 5C
    > position, I won't be able to go any further.
    >
    > Ah yes one question : If I have NO console and I fire it up. How can I shut
    > it down ? is it allright to simply press the white button on the front panel
    > and expect the OS will close nicely ?
    >
    > > Good Luck -- J D --

    >
    > Thanks for your help, indeed.
    >
    > --
    > Alex
    > [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    > autres jeux de role.
    > www.extremia.org



  5. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    Alex -- Follow-up to your reply.

    > I don't know. From the environment, I'd say it's still set up : the company
    > has moved to a newer AS/400 and just put this one in a corner of the room
    > after migrating the data. So it should work.


    Maybe so... Maybe no... As an Installer and performing i5 Migrations
    mostly these days I am ask to "Clear" ASP's or "Scratch" systems and we
    provide affidavit statement that the systems are not operational when
    done. If the customers did this themselves, and SOX has not gotten to
    them yet, then you should be in good shape. Maybe some Security Officer
    Password problems but I can fix that, just not in a Google Thread
    however.

    > I'll try to learn about that process. It may be worthwhile in the long term.


    Yep... Some simple letters but it may require assistance form an IBM
    business Partner.

    > I don't know since I couldn't fire it up yet, but there is a sticker on the
    > case with V3R7 written on it. So I guess OS/400 is there.


    Hope so... If not look for a Pink and Black folder for that machine
    that has the LIC-KEY's. They are like gold. Any set of CD's will work
    as long as they are the right VxRxMx for the KEY's. Oh... And the Keys
    are also base on the SN# of the system.

    > OK, I understand the principle. I'm also working on S/390, and there are
    > similar concepts there.


    Cool... You got it. I'm an old Big Iron Guy also and yes those are some
    similar concepts but these little dudes can be as different as night
    and day.

    > Actually, the next step will be to dig up the two S/36 5363 that were there
    > even before that AS. But that will be another story.


    Now you're just trying to have a little fun. I got a "TDL" if you
    need it, and if I can find it. Good 'Ol "White Box" 36's R5M1. The
    first migration projects that I actually got hugs when done and nobody
    bitches about the price!!! Of course that would be going from the 536x
    White box to the AS-36 Black box.

    > OK. But the presence of the FC-2617 and the V3R7 sticker (and 3x 2GB drives)
    > are good indicators that OS/400 should be there.


    Simple recommendation, once you get this guy in high gear, consider
    adding a 4th FC-6606 disk and start ASP Disk Mirror. Provided you have
    enough disk space when done.

    > It's definitely Ethernet, with an AUI port. It would be really nice to have
    > that work, but that's gonna be in the future.


    Cool. You will need a $20 10baseT transceiver.

    > I finally came across a drawing on the online IBM doc that shows that piece.
    > I definitely don't have it !! So I guess I'm stuck until I find one. I will
    > go and search where I found the machine, but I suspect that kind of thing
    > will have been reused with the current setup.


    Yes... A lot of the time and especially with MES upgrades, the Cable
    Groups are prepared as needed and existing cables are incorporated into
    the configuration. I have left 100's of the old Twinax Brick in the
    raised floor especially since customers have started upgrading to
    Ethernet and getting away from "Dumb" terminal. Maybe try looking
    there. I have tons of these but don't really sell anything. Sort of a
    conflict since I try to align myself with the Brokers and Re-Marketers
    scratching a living out pushing machine and features. The next post to
    this thread looks like they have them ready to ship if you can't find
    one.

    > OK that's it. So it is not a simple RS-232 as I could find on an older PC ?


    Nothing IBM makes is simple or makes a lot of sense sometimes.

    > OK, so it seems I have cable that go on the "terminal side", but not those
    > that go to the "machine side". ****. I'm stuck here !


    Yep... Required for the "Dumb" terminal / Console. Do you have the
    "Y" connector or "Pigtail" that goes on that 3486 workstation? That is
    also a required part. OH... BTW. Are the ends on you Twinax Cable good
    and tight. This can be a problem sometimes. Careful tightening them
    also. You don't want to twist thing around too much. Hold the barrel
    still and tighten the "Male" keeper that has the cable going through
    it. No need to be to tight, just not to loose ether.

    > However : is it possible to use a cable that does DB25->DB15 directly from
    > the position 5C to the DB15 of the 3486 terminal ?


    No!!! Don't even try. Twinax cabling segments require a termination of
    54.9ohms from each phase to shield to reflect the signal back to the
    host. This is a "Daisy Chain" style segment with up to 7 device per
    port. Ergo... The Port "0" / Address"0" requirements for proper
    operations of the console. Therefore the ports and the cabling. Also
    the MFIOP has a diode bridge and resistor packs related to each port
    internally. These can be pretty sensitive, especially during static
    season.

    > Very nice !! I'm gonna go and have a look asap.


    Yep... Great way for me to drop manuals for customer, document for
    projects and even secret files that us Tech Guys share from time to
    time. Furl has been a nice find and it just took me a minute to drop
    those 5 or 6 manuals for you. Been meaning add those there anyway.
    OH... Did you find the link for rest of the manuals. "AS/400 Online
    Library", there are at lease 200 manuals there related to the AS-400
    system platform. If I can just get IBM to let us access RETAIN like
    this.

    > You should not be worried in the coming days : it will take some time for me
    > to read all of that. And unless I can plug directly the terminal to the 5C
    > position, I won't be able to go any further.


    Heck... Those "Bricks" are a dime a dozen and just lying around. I got
    at least a dozen up here in the Carolinas' at the Tech Center and
    probably 200 in Atlanta. Don't let that stop you from having a little
    fun with this guy, especially since you adding the 5363 to the mix. I
    also still have a whole shelve of 5363 parts if you have problems with
    them including a full "Crash Kit".

    > Ah yes one question : If I have NO console and I fire it up. How can I shut
    > it down ? is it allright to simply press the white button on the front panel
    > and expect the OS will close nicely ?


    Well... I look a thing a little differently. I don't power anything
    off. That when you have problems. But then again if your not using it,
    there is no need to suck down the juice. My Tech Center is UPS and
    Generator supported but unless it's current equipment that I am working
    on I do power down and roll them out of the way. To more answer your
    question.... Pressing the "White" Power switch will start the Power On
    and IPL process based on the IPL path on the display. Pressing it again
    will display a "0?" and you will have to press it again to confirm
    power down but that is hard. I would perform Function "8" and press the
    "Blue" enter key. This will display a 0000-0008. Perform function "8"
    again and press the "Blue" enter key and the system will come down. I
    think "Function 8" is a more orderly manor. However... Ether way can
    cause a little grief if OS-400 is IPL and "UP". You never really want
    to force power down a box that's active unless you don't have a choice.
    The next IPL could take a while to complete the storage management
    recovery and reclaim processes. I would recommend that until you get
    the bugs work out that you run in a "Manual" mode (01 - B M) or (01 -
    A M) so you always come up through DST. You can drop power from DST
    ether through the menus or the procedures I just mentioned without
    hurting anything as long a nothing is running in DST of course. Then
    when you get things up and running always use the ENDSBS cmds and
    PWRDWNSYS cmds for orderly shutdowns. Just a recommendation.

    Good Luck. If I'm on a Job or Project them I am usually consumed. If
    I'm typing away here and replying to threads I'm doing Phone Support or
    chipping away at things in the shop. So... anyway, I don't mind
    answering question or sharing simple suggestion here but please contact
    me directly to discuss detailed issues such as busting passwords
    because this is how I support myself.

    --- JDR --- www.AS400installer.com


  6. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    "JHL" wrote in message
    news:1165952093.011610.224750@73g2000cwn.googlegro ups.com...
    > we have a 8port twinax controller available. say $10 plus shipping.
    >
    > www.michsoft.com/36.html


    Hi

    Actually, I'm in France, so, I will first try to get something closer to me
    to avoid overseas shipping costs...

    Thanks for your proposal anyway, I won't forget it !

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  7. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    "MainFrame" wrote in message
    news:1165975358.180287.116100@f1g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
    > Maybe so... Maybe no... As an Installer and performing i5 Migrations
    > mostly these days I am ask to "Clear" ASP's or "Scratch" systems and we
    > provide affidavit statement that the systems are not operational when
    > done. If the customers did this themselves, and SOX has not gotten to
    > them yet, then you should be in good shape. Maybe some Security Officer


    I'll see. I previously got other computers from them and everything was
    still on the HD. Invoices, stocks, software, license keys,...

    > Password problems but I can fix that, just not in a Google Thread
    > however.


    That was to be one of my next questions Since it is just for fun, I'm
    really not into giving IBM a fortune to get a license or whatever. The
    electricity bill will be enough ;-)

    > Hope so... If not look for a Pink and Black folder for that machine
    > that has the LIC-KEY's. They are like gold. Any set of CD's will work
    > as long as they are the right VxRxMx for the KEY's. Oh... And the Keys
    > are also base on the SN# of the system.


    I'll look for that then.

    > Now you're just trying to have a little fun. I got a "TDL" if you
    > need it, and if I can find it. Good 'Ol "White Box" 36's R5M1. The
    > first migration projects that I actually got hugs when done and nobody
    > bitches about the price!!! Of course that would be going from the 536x
    > White box to the AS-36 Black box.


    Well first problem is to carry them. There's a narrow spiral staircase to
    get them downstairs, and they are not really light.

    > Simple recommendation, once you get this guy in high gear, consider
    > adding a 4th FC-6606 disk and start ASP Disk Mirror. Provided you have
    > enough disk space when done.


    I think I have one from somewhere else (same IBM 2Go FWSCSI, just missing
    the rails).

    > Yes... A lot of the time and especially with MES upgrades, the Cable
    > Groups are prepared as needed and existing cables are incorporated into
    > the configuration. I have left 100's of the old Twinax Brick in the
    > raised floor especially since customers have started upgrading to
    > Ethernet and getting away from "Dumb" terminal. Maybe try looking
    > there. I have tons of these but don't really sell anything. Sort of a
    > conflict since I try to align myself with the Brokers and Re-Marketers
    > scratching a living out pushing machine and features. The next post to
    > this thread looks like they have them ready to ship if you can't find
    > one.


    yes... there are also some on ebay. But then, there are shipping costs to
    France...

    > Nothing IBM makes is simple or makes a lot of sense sometimes.


    I know... I had several people of my family working there in the past...

    > Yep... Required for the "Dumb" terminal / Console. Do you have the
    > "Y" connector or "Pigtail" that goes on that 3486 workstation? That is


    Yes I have at least one (I got 4-5 3486s in fact). I also have strange
    cables that have 3 DB25s, some that have 2DB25 and one DB15, and some with 2
    DB15 and two strange with 34pins in 4 rows.

    >> However : is it possible to use a cable that does DB25->DB15 directly
    >> from
    >> the position 5C to the DB15 of the 3486 terminal ?

    >
    > No!!! Don't even try. Twinax cabling segments require a termination of
    > 54.9ohms from each phase to shield to reflect the signal back to the
    > host. This is a "Daisy Chain" style segment with up to 7 device per
    > port. Ergo... The Port "0" / Address"0" requirements for proper
    > operations of the console. Therefore the ports and the cabling. Also
    > the MFIOP has a diode bridge and resistor packs related to each port
    > internally. These can be pretty sensitive, especially during static
    > season.


    I'm glad I felt Id better not plug anything unless I knew what I was doing.

    > Heck... Those "Bricks" are a dime a dozen and just lying around. I got
    > at least a dozen up here in the Carolinas' at the Tech Center and
    > probably 200 in Atlanta. Don't let that stop you from having a little
    > fun with this guy, especially since you adding the 5363 to the mix. I
    > also still have a whole shelve of 5363 parts if you have problems with
    > them including a full "Crash Kit".


    I hope I won't have too many cabling problems with the S/36s...

    > Well... I look a thing a little differently. I don't power anything
    > off. That when you have problems. But then again if your not using it,
    > there is no need to suck down the juice. My Tech Center is UPS and


    errr. that's not a good option in my case, indeed. OK it's only 320W peak
    and I need heating in winter but in the end it's still me paying the bill

    > Generator supported but unless it's current equipment that I am working
    > on I do power down and roll them out of the way. To more answer your
    > question.... Pressing the "White" Power switch will start the Power On
    > and IPL process based on the IPL path on the display. Pressing it again
    > will display a "0?" and you will have to press it again to confirm
    > power down but that is hard. I would perform Function "8" and press the
    > "Blue" enter key. This will display a 0000-0008. Perform function "8"
    > again and press the "Blue" enter key and the system will come down. I
    > think "Function 8" is a more orderly manor. However... Ether way can
    > cause a little grief if OS-400 is IPL and "UP". You never really want
    > to force power down a box that's active unless you don't have a choice.
    > The next IPL could take a while to complete the storage management
    > recovery and reclaim processes. I would recommend that until you get
    > the bugs work out that you run in a "Manual" mode (01 - B M) or (01 -
    > A M) so you always come up through DST. You can drop power from DST
    > ether through the menus or the procedures I just mentioned without
    > hurting anything as long a nothing is running in DST of course. Then
    > when you get things up and running always use the ENDSBS cmds and
    > PWRDWNSYS cmds for orderly shutdowns. Just a recommendation.


    OK. I'll wait until I've got at least a console hooked to it then.

    > Good Luck. If I'm on a Job or Project them I am usually consumed. If
    > I'm typing away here and replying to threads I'm doing Phone Support or
    > chipping away at things in the shop. So... anyway, I don't mind
    > answering question or sharing simple suggestion here but please contact
    > me directly to discuss detailed issues such as busting passwords
    > because this is how I support myself.


    Thanks a lot !

    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



  8. Re: 9402-436 : where do I plug the terminal ?

    "MainFrame" wrote in message
    news:1165975358.180287.116100@f1g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
    >> I finally came across a drawing on the online IBM doc that shows that
    >> piece.
    >> I definitely don't have it !! So I guess I'm stuck until I find one. I
    >> will
    >> go and search where I found the machine, but I suspect that kind of thing
    >> will have been reused with the current setup.

    >
    > Yes... A lot of the time and especially with MES upgrades, the Cable
    > Groups are prepared as needed and existing cables are incorporated into
    > the configuration. I have left 100's of the old Twinax Brick in the
    > raised floor especially since customers have started upgrading to
    > Ethernet and getting away from "Dumb" terminal. Maybe try looking
    > there. I have tons of these but don't really sell anything. Sort of a
    > conflict since I try to align myself with the Brokers and Re-Marketers
    > scratching a living out pushing machine and features. The next post to
    > this thread looks like they have them ready to ship if you can't find
    > one.

    (...)
    > No!!! Don't even try. Twinax cabling segments require a termination of
    > 54.9ohms from each phase to shield to reflect the signal back to the
    > host. This is a "Daisy Chain" style segment with up to 7 device per
    > port. Ergo... The Port "0" / Address"0" requirements for proper
    > operations of the console. Therefore the ports and the cabling. Also
    > the MFIOP has a diode bridge and resistor packs related to each port
    > internally. These can be pretty sensitive, especially during static
    > season.

    (...)
    > Heck... Those "Bricks" are a dime a dozen and just lying around. I got
    > at least a dozen up here in the Carolinas' at the Tech Center and
    > probably 200 in Atlanta. Don't let that stop you from having a little
    > fun with this guy, especially since you adding the 5363 to the mix. I
    > also still have a whole shelve of 5363 parts if you have problems with
    > them including a full "Crash Kit".


    Speaking about those 8-port twinax bricks, I also came across a drawing of a
    similar bricks, but containing 8 DB25 instead of the 8 twinax.

    Could I use that instead ?


    Cheers,
    --
    Alex
    [JDR] Visitez Extremia, un monde gratuit et en francais pour D&D et
    autres jeux de role.
    www.extremia.org



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