OpenSuse - IBM AS400

This is a discussion on OpenSuse - IBM AS400 ; Hello, Is anyone running this on their i5? I am currently running SLES 9, I really like the platform, but I hate the support since novell took over. I figure if the Open version runs well, then I should just ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: OpenSuse

  1. OpenSuse

    Hello,

    Is anyone running this on their i5?

    I am currently running SLES 9, I really like the platform, but I hate
    the support since novell took over.

    I figure if the Open version runs well, then I should just use that..
    Why pay for support that I have never recieved when needed?

    I really wish I could run Ubuntu on the system5.



    Thank You,
    Jeff P


  2. Re: OpenSuse

    On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 06:42:24AM -0800, Jeffrae wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > Is anyone running this on their i5?


    Fortunately not. However, I recently installed Debian GNU/Linux. It
    works well, if you have a bunch of Linux experience.

    > I really wish I could run Ubuntu on the system5.


    Ubuntu are just some people taking Debian's packages for their own use
    away and selling (not in the commercial sense) it with a more
    user-friendly installer as "Ubuntu".

    If you have some clue about Linux, you should manage to install every
    distribution on the i5, in case they support PowerPC platforms. Maybe
    you have to recompile the kernel (it has to have some support for some
    eServer stuff and has to be a 64 bit kernel), but it works.

    You also may want to have a look at install manuals for pSeries. They
    work (except when you use virtual adapters) the same in iSeries.

    Hope this helps,
    Sebastian
    --
    signature intentionally left blank

  3. Re: OpenSuse


    Sebastian Schmidt wrote:
    > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 06:42:24AM -0800, Jeffrae wrote:
    > > Hello,
    > >
    > > Is anyone running this on their i5?

    >
    > Fortunately not. However, I recently installed Debian GNU/Linux. It
    > works well, if you have a bunch of Linux experience.
    >
    > > I really wish I could run Ubuntu on the system5.

    >
    > Ubuntu are just some people taking Debian's packages for their own use
    > away and selling (not in the commercial sense) it with a more
    > user-friendly installer as "Ubuntu".
    >
    > If you have some clue about Linux, you should manage to install every
    > distribution on the i5, in case they support PowerPC platforms. Maybe
    > you have to recompile the kernel (it has to have some support for some
    > eServer stuff and has to be a 64 bit kernel), but it works.


    the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much slower and
    more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running GNU
    code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is porting
    GNU C to ILE C.

    -Steve


  4. Re: OpenSuse

    Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    > the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much slower and
    > more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running GNU
    > code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is porting
    > GNU C to ILE C.
    >


    What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same hardware.

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  5. Re: OpenSuse


    Dejan Rodiger wrote:
    > Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    > > the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much slower and
    > > more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running GNU
    > > code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is porting
    > > GNU C to ILE C.
    > >

    >
    > What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same hardware.


    yes, the hardware is identical. the typical i5 is geared down to 20 to
    33% of capacity by the creation of an empty partition. You can buy a
    quad core p5, with AIX and a few user based priced db2 licenses, for a
    lower price than the 600 CPW, single core, i520 ( the one geared down
    to 20% of capacity )

    -Steve


  6. Re: OpenSuse

    Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 17:21:
    > Dejan Rodiger wrote:
    >> Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    >>> the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much slower and
    >>> more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running GNU
    >>> code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is porting
    >>> GNU C to ILE C.
    >>>

    >> What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same hardware.

    >
    > yes, the hardware is identical. the typical i5 is geared down to 20 to
    > 33% of capacity by the creation of an empty partition. You can buy a


    On i5 machines you don't need empty partition any more. HMC is used for the
    partitioning and for controlling all of the partitions now.

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  7. Re: OpenSuse


    Dejan Rodiger wrote:
    > Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 17:21:
    > > Dejan Rodiger wrote:
    > >> Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    > >>> the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much slower and
    > >>> more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running GNU
    > >>> code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is porting
    > >>> GNU C to ILE C.
    > >>>
    > >> What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same hardware.

    > >
    > > yes, the hardware is identical. the typical i5 is geared down to 20 to
    > > 33% of capacity by the creation of an empty partition. You can buy a

    >
    > On i5 machines you don't need empty partition any more. HMC is used for the
    > partitioning and for controlling all of the partitions now.


    the empty partition is the way I was informed ( on this NG! ) the
    gearing down is accomplished. I doubt it can be undone using the HMC
    because otherwise there would be many more speedy i5s in circulation.
    The point is that until the day i5/OS is sold to Zend ( my guess and
    hope ) the i5 will remain too slow and too expensive to compete.

    -Steve


  8. Re: OpenSuse


    "Dejan Rodiger" wrote in message
    news:em3p0t$okk$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
    | Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    | > the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much
    slower and
    | > more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running
    GNU
    | > code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is
    porting
    | > GNU C to ILE C.
    | >
    |
    | What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same
    hardware.
    |
    | --
    | Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    | Delete wirus from e-mail address


    It is true that they all run on the same hardware. However, the
    original question was "can I run OpenSuse on an i5?"

    Since the most basic i5 costs about $10k. and runs at about half the
    speed of a $5k OpenPower box or $7.5k P5 box, you probably do not want
    to use it that way. If you already have a i5 and just want to
    experiment with OpenSuse go ahead, but if you want to run any
    significant applications you can buy much cheaper cycles.

    I love CPF...OS/400...i5/OS and think it is fair for IBM to charge for
    the extra functionality. However, I think their pricing strategy is
    destroying the system. IBM should sell a cheep box like their
    smallest OpenPower box for $5k or less and have all three OS's (I5/OS,
    AIX and Linux) pre-installed. They could impose limits on the number
    of concurrent users but no artificial performance governors.
    Students and home developers could then build new applications that
    would sell new full sized System-i machines. The elegance of the
    system would become apparent to a new generation.

    Mike Sicilian



  9. Re: OpenSuse

    Dejan Rodiger writes:

    > Tell me any machine where you can upgrade your machine from 32 to 64 bits


    Sun Solaris. It can run 32-bit binaries without a hinch in 64-bit
    mode.
    --
    Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen

  10. Re: OpenSuse


    mike wrote:
    > "Dejan Rodiger" wrote in message
    > news:em3p0t$okk$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
    > | Steve Richter said the following on 17.12.2006 15:55:
    > | > the only restriction here is that the i5 hardware is so much
    > slower and
    > | > more expensive than the p5 that there is little sense in running
    > GNU
    > | > code on the i. What I would be interested in checking out is
    > porting
    > | > GNU C to ILE C.
    > | >
    > |
    > | What are you talking about? i5, p5 and OpenPower use the same
    > hardware.
    > |
    > | --
    > | Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    > | Delete wirus from e-mail address
    >
    >
    > It is true that they all run on the same hardware. However, the
    > original question was "can I run OpenSuse on an i5?"
    >
    > Since the most basic i5 costs about $10k. and runs at about half the
    > speed of a $5k OpenPower box or $7.5k P5 box, you probably do not want
    > to use it that way. If you already have a i5 and just want to
    > experiment with OpenSuse go ahead, but if you want to run any
    > significant applications you can buy much cheaper cycles.
    >
    > I love CPF...OS/400...i5/OS and think it is fair for IBM to charge for
    > the extra functionality. However, I think their pricing strategy is
    > destroying the system. IBM should sell a cheep box like their
    > smallest OpenPower box for $5k or less and have all three OS's (I5/OS,
    > AIX and Linux) pre-installed. They could impose limits on the number
    > of concurrent users but no artificial performance governors.
    > Students and home developers could then build new applications that
    > would sell new full sized System-i machines. The elegance of the
    > system would become apparent to a new generation.


    a priced per user i5/OS system running on p5 hardware would be a great
    small office class of system. doctors office, libraries, town
    government, accountants - would be terrific to be able to compete in
    that space. And ILE could prove to be an excellent way to run GNU
    applications.

    -Steve


  11. Re: OpenSuse

    Any old IBM mainframe built since October of 1964...

    "Dejan Rodiger" wrote in message
    news:em4eld$ils$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
    ....
    > Tell me any machine where you can upgrade your machine from 32 to 64 bits
    > and from 64bits to 128bits without recompilation of any code done by
    > application providers. Even AIX 5L don't have that ability.
    > --
    > Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    > Delete wirus from e-mail address




  12. Re: OpenSuse

    Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen said the following on 18.12.2006 2:09:
    > Dejan Rodiger writes:
    >
    >> Tell me any machine where you can upgrade your machine from 32 to 64 bits

    >
    > Sun Solaris. It can run 32-bit binaries without a hinch in 64-bit
    > mode.


    Yes, but I wasn't talking about that. Is this 32 application possible to use
    all 64 bits address space, or 64 bit instructions. Is this 32 application
    now 64 bit when it is run on 64 bit machine?

    You see, when AS/400 was upgraded from 48 bit CISC processor to 64 bit RISC
    processor, user just have to do a save on 48 bit machine and restore on 64
    bit machine. And all programs become 64 bit and able to use 64 bit address
    space.

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  13. Re: OpenSuse

    Steve Richter said the following on 18.12.2006 4:28:
    > mike wrote:
    >> I love CPF...OS/400...i5/OS and think it is fair for IBM to charge for
    >> the extra functionality. However, I think their pricing strategy is
    >> destroying the system. IBM should sell a cheep box like their
    >> smallest OpenPower box for $5k or less and have all three OS's (I5/OS,
    >> AIX and Linux) pre-installed. They could impose limits on the number
    >> of concurrent users but no artificial performance governors.
    >> Students and home developers could then build new applications that
    >> would sell new full sized System-i machines. The elegance of the
    >> system would become apparent to a new generation.

    >
    > a priced per user i5/OS system running on p5 hardware would be a great
    > small office class of system. doctors office, libraries, town
    > government, accountants - would be terrific to be able to compete in
    > that space. And ILE could prove to be an excellent way to run GNU
    > applications.


    I agree with you that IBM should lower the price on the entry machines,
    since they are competing with Windows servers with Express versions of the
    databases which cost $0 (DB2 Express, MS SQL 2005 Express, Oracle whatever
    Express).

    I want a laptop with i5/OS and Linux for $4k.

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  14. Re: OpenSuse

    P. Raulerson said the following on 18.12.2006 6:12:
    > Any old IBM mainframe built since October of 1964...
    >


    Ok, AS/400 probably borrowed that from the mainframe :-)

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  15. Re: OpenSuse

    Hi,

    it wouldn't have any without recompile, otherwise it could not run on 32
    bit!!! BTW: as400 does some sort of (automatic) recompile

    Dieter Bender

    Dejan Rodiger wrote:

    > Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen said the following on 18.12.2006 2:09:
    >> Dejan Rodiger writes:
    >>
    >>> Tell me any machine where you can upgrade your machine from 32 to 64
    >>> bits

    >>
    >> Sun Solaris. It can run 32-bit binaries without a hinch in 64-bit
    >> mode.

    >
    > Yes, but I wasn't talking about that. Is this 32 application possible to
    > use all 64 bits address space, or 64 bit instructions. Is this 32
    > application now 64 bit when it is run on 64 bit machine?
    >
    > You see, when AS/400 was upgraded from 48 bit CISC processor to 64 bit
    > RISC processor, user just have to do a save on 48 bit machine and restore
    > on 64 bit machine. And all programs become 64 bit and able to use 64 bit
    > address space.
    >



  16. Re: OpenSuse

    Dieter Bender said the following on 18.12.2006 10:07:
    > Hi,
    >
    > it wouldn't have any without recompile, otherwise it could not run on 32
    > bit!!! BTW: as400 does some sort of (automatic) recompile


    Yes, you are right.

    TIMI is responsible for that recompile when the program is first used.
    Every program exists of two parts, one is source code compiled in some
    intermediate code (like Java .class) and the other is actual machine code
    for that particular processor.

    So when the program is run for the first time on particular machine, its
    intermediate "source" code will be compiled into the machine code.
    So the program will be able to use whole 64 bit address space and 64 bit
    processor.

    --
    Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    Delete wirus from e-mail address

  17. Re: OpenSuse


    "Dejan Rodiger" wrote in message
    news:em5gjl$7kl$2@ss408.t-com.hr...
    | P. Raulerson said the following on 18.12.2006 6:12:
    | > Any old IBM mainframe built since October of 1964...
    | >
    |
    | Ok, AS/400 probably borrowed that from the mainframe :-)
    |
    | --
    | Dejan Rodiger - PGP ID 0xAC8722DC
    | Delete wirus from e-mail address


    No borrowing was involved.

    The IBM 360 / 370 / 390 / z-Series mainframes and x86-64 processors
    and the Sun 64 bit CPU's all run 32 bit software because they still
    have 32 bit processing modes as a subset of their 64 bit instruction
    sets. In other words 32 bit object code continues to run and
    continues to demonstrate 32 bit addressing limits even though it runs
    on a 64 bit OS.

    The S/38 and CISC AS/400 and RISC AS/400 and now System-i all compile
    programs to a "technology independent" virtual machine with a 128 bit
    address. The "W-code" of the virtual machine are stored in object
    modules along with the actual machine code of the current hardware.
    When program objects are restored from backup tapes or an upgrade to
    the "licensed internal code" is made the system automatically checks
    to see if W-code must be re-translated into the hardware instruction
    set. Thus old S/38 object code actually runs in full 64 bit mode on
    the latest i5 system.

    While there are some similarities to JIT (just in time compiling) of
    JAVA I think the /400's approach is unique among all commercially
    available systems and has proven totally transparent to all hardware
    upgrades over a 26 year period.

    Mike Sicilian



  18. Re: OpenSuse


    Sebastian Schmidt wrote:
    > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 06:42:24AM -0800, Jeffrae wrote:
    > > Hello,
    > >
    > > Is anyone running this on their i5?

    >
    > Fortunately not. However, I recently installed Debian GNU/Linux. It
    > works well, if you have a bunch of Linux experience.
    > > I really wish I could run Ubuntu on the system5.

    >
    > Ubuntu are just some people taking Debian's packages for their own use
    > away and selling (not in the commercial sense) it with a more
    > user-friendly installer as "Ubuntu".
    >


    Yeah.. I know it is basedon debian.. They don't try to hide it..

    > If you have some clue about Linux, you should manage to install every
    > distribution on the i5, in case they support PowerPC platforms. Maybe
    > you have to recompile the kernel (it has to have some support for some
    > eServer stuff and has to be a 64 bit kernel), but it works.


    Thanks for the insight..

    I basically want to play..

    Jeff P


+ Reply to Thread