zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX - HP UX

This is a discussion on zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX - HP UX ; Hi, Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000. As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message that HP-UX won't ...

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  1. zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Hi,

    Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
    As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
    release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
    that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
    and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
    Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
    is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".

    Then I got back to my 2003 release of HP-UX. Of course it
    installs and runs just fine. Then I added the 08/2004 patch
    bundle. Then came the 09/2004 patch bundle and voila: The
    Xserver comes with the already known "not optimal performance"
    warning message. Fortunatly, the mouse still works.
    Is it just me or does anyone else sees a problem with this too?
    The original HP-UX media is from 10/2003 and the patch that
    breaks it is from 09/2004, so the the "works-as-expected"-life
    of this product is a little less than a year. I know that the
    zx6000 is basically a server in disguise, but that's the kind
    of support you would expect when you buy a PC in a super market.
    hey, you can get a Windows Vista driver for the FireGL X1 from
    AMD which was last updated in Oct 2007.

    I finally swremove'd the Xserver cumulative patch from 09/2004.
    Does that mean that every new patch might break it again?
    What should I watch out for? Xserver? USB? Anything else?

    Another thing that makes me think: has HP sold so few of those
    Itanium workstations that really noone cares and complains?

    Dennis

    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

  2. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    In article , Dennis Grevenstein
    writes:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
    > As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
    > release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
    > that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
    > and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
    > Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
    > is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".


    I have a C8000 (ATI FireGL X1, HP-UX 11.11 MCOE Dec-2006)
    which displays a similar message.
    Gfx is much slower than expected, but since the box is
    quite snappy otherwise, I delayed respective investigations.
    My first thought was it could be a misconfigured X-server.

    > I know that the
    > zx6000 is basically a server in disguise, but that's the kind
    > of support you would expect when you buy a PC in a super market.


    That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once was
    leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy
    of intel and M$.

    > Another thing that makes me think: has HP sold so few of those
    > Itanium workstations that really noone cares and complains?


    Probably. But with a C8000 one isn't necessarily better off, s.a.

  3. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once
    > was leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy of
    > intel and M$.


    Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
    independent of vendor.

    That said, if one doesn't need/want 3D, there is the "Office Friendly
    Server" configuration of the rx2660 or the earlier rx2620 and rx2600
    "servers." One of these days I may replace the J5600 on which I'm
    typing this with one of those. (Being one of the cobbler's children I
    tend to lag the curve

    But indeed IIRC somewhere in the 11.23 stream "support" for the zx6000
    was dropped in HP-UX. I'm not sure what the state of graphics drivers
    for zx6000's graphics might happen to be in Linux.

    rick jones
    --
    Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  4. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    * Dennis Grevenstein:

    > Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
    > As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
    > release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
    > that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
    > and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
    > Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
    > is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".


    It isn't supported. The support for Itanium2 workstations (zx2000 and
    zx6000) has ended long ago (IIRC end of 2004) as these machines were
    basically dead horses when they appeared (just too late to compete with
    x86/AMD64 offerings and also lacking ISV support). The server versions
    (your zx6000 is basically a rx2600 but with AGP gfx) are still
    supported, though, but the support is very limited in terms of gfx.

    Benjamin

  5. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >
    > I have a C8000 (ATI FireGL X1, HP-UX 11.11 MCOE Dec-2006)
    > which displays a similar message.
    > Gfx is much slower than expected, but since the box is
    > quite snappy otherwise, I delayed respective investigations.
    > My first thought was it could be a misconfigured X-server.


    I think I actually found a HP-UX configuration that works:
    I installed the basic HP-UX from 10/2003, then the 08/2004
    patch bundle, then the 09/2004 patch bundle without the
    cumulative Xserver patch, then the latest Quality pack for
    11.23. With that come some graphics driver and Xserver patches
    that seem to make the FireGL work again: PHKL_36140 and PHSS_37972
    It's working fine now.

    > That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once was
    > leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy
    > of intel and M$.


    I am still pretty disappointed. Even when you look at HP's
    PC offerings in the past (think Vectra...) support was okay.
    It almost feels as if the people who screwed up with DEC's
    heritage at Compaq have taken over HP...

    > Probably. But with a C8000 one isn't necessarily better off, s.a.


    right. It's a shame when the latest and fastest PA-RISC
    machine doesn't work as expected. Why even sell it when
    people can't upgrade their old systems to the latest machine
    when they can't run their old software on the new system.

    gruss,
    Dennis

    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

  6. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Dennis Grevenstein wrote:

    > It's working fine now.


    I forgot:

    bash-3.2# model
    ia64 hp workstation zx6000
    bash-3.2# graphinfo

    HEWLETT PACKARD WORKSTATION GRAPHICS CONFIGURATION

    PRODUCT INFORMATION

    graphics product: ATI Fire GL X1
    32-bit shared library: /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libddfglrx.so.2
    64-bit shared library: /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libddfglrx.so.2
    device pathname: /dev/gvid0
    spu description: ia64

    CONFIGURATION INFORMATION

    image planes: 48
    overlay planes: 8
    hardware accelerator: yes
    geometry accelerator: yes
    image accelerator: no
    texture accelerator: yes
    hardware zbuffer: yes
    software zbuffer: no
    video out: no

    3D CAPABILITIES

    lighting and shading: yes
    vector antialiasing: yes
    model clipping: yes
    texture mapping: yes
    full scene AA: yes

    HP OpenGL SUPPORT

    direct rendering (hardware): yes
    receive indirect rendering (protocol): yes
    emit indirect rendering (protocol): yes
    virtual GL rendering (VGL): yes

    OS/SOFTWARE VERSIONS

    HP-UX ayanami B.11.23 U ia64 3715833141 unlimited-user license

    /usr/bin/X11/X:
    Built for HP-UX 11.23
    X Window System, Version 11 R6
    (build date: Tue Jul 29 17:26:08 IST 2008)

    /usr/bin/X11/Xf86:
    Built for HP-UX 11.23
    X Window System, Version 11 R6
    (build date: Tue Jul 29 18:36:05 IST 2008)

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libGL.so.2:
    OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ libGL.so.2

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libXfGL.so.2:
    X Window System, Version 11 R6
    (build date: Mon May 1 13:28:18 MDT 2006)
    Built for: 11.23 on HP-UX Daily, +O3 +Oinlinebudget=1000 +Oinitcheck +DSmckinley +FPD +Oshortdata +Ofastaccess -DNDEBUG

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libGL.so.2:
    OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ libGL.so.2

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libXfGL.so.2:
    X Window System, Version 11 R6
    (build date: Mon May 1 14:30:54 MDT 2006)
    Built for: 11.23 on HP-UX Daily, +O3 +Oinlinebudget=1000 +Oinitcheck +DSmckinley +FPD +Oshortdata +Ofastaccess -DNDEBUG

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libGLU.so.2:

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libGLU.so.2:

    /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lbin/ogld:
    OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ ogld

    HEWLETT PACKARD WORKSTATION GRAPHICS CONFIGURATION



    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

  7. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Rick Jones schrieb:
    >
    > Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
    > independent of vendor.


    Not quite true.
    In 2006 I obtained a brand new IBM IntelliStation 185.
    And one can still buy them from IBM.



  8. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Dennis Grevenstein wrote:
    > Why even sell it when people can't upgrade their old systems to the
    > latest machine when they can't run their old software on the new
    > system.


    IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.

    rick jones
    --
    a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  9. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Rick Jones wrote:

    >> Why even sell it when people can't upgrade their old systems to the
    >> latest machine when they can't run their old software on the new
    >> system.

    >
    > IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.


    So? A C3750 still works fine with 11iv1. Say, somebody bought
    a C8000 to upgrade a 3750, because he has a PA-RISC application.
    How happy do you think he might be when his more recent C8000
    just won't work as expected anymore?

    I know this is not your personal fault, so please don't think
    I blame you. I just think that when HP forces people to move
    to Wintel/Lintel like this, they have one more reason not to
    buy their new generic Intel box from HP.

    Dennis

    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

  10. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    * Michael Kraemer:

    >> Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
    >> independent of vendor.

    >
    > Not quite true.


    It is.

    > In 2006 I obtained a brand new IBM IntelliStation 185.
    > And one can still buy them from IBM.


    Yes, one can. But the point is that actually very few are sold. And from
    the ones that are sold the majority of sales is because of the need to
    replace an old RS/6000 workstation with something compatible. These
    machines don't catch any new customers, and even the existing customers
    are more or less slowly moving away from that platform.

    Todays workstation market is x64 running Windows or Linux.

    Benjamin

  11. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    * Dennis Grevenstein:

    >> IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.

    >
    > So? A C3750 still works fine with 11iv1.


    My over 10 year old E55 works fine with 11i v1, too. Does that mean it
    should still be supported by HP?

    > Say, somebody bought
    > a C8000 to upgrade a 3750, because he has a PA-RISC application.
    > How happy do you think he might be when his more recent C8000
    > just won't work as expected anymore?


    It works as expected as long as he stays with older HP-UX release. If he
    needs support he probably would have better get informed before buying a
    replacement system. HP has clear EOL dates for hardware and software
    support, it's not their fault when people ignore them.

    > I know this is not your personal fault, so please don't think
    > I blame you. I just think that when HP forces people to move
    > to Wintel/Lintel like this, they have one more reason not to
    > buy their new generic Intel box from HP.


    In fact, it's the customers who force HP to move to x64 as they aren't
    willing to pay for the much higher costs of traditional RISC platforms
    anymore.

    Benjamin

  12. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Dennis Grevenstein wrote:
    > Rick Jones wrote:


    > >> Why even sell it when people can't upgrade their old systems to the
    > >> latest machine when they can't run their old software on the new
    > >> system.

    > >
    > > IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.


    > So? A C3750 still works fine with 11iv1. Say, somebody bought
    > a C8000 to upgrade a 3750, because he has a PA-RISC application.
    > How happy do you think he might be when his more recent C8000
    > just won't work as expected anymore?


    I thought these issues were with 11.23 (11iv2) on the C8000, taking it
    to sw bits for which it was never (IIRC) certified. I suspect that
    just as the C3750, the C8000 would be perfectly content sitting on
    11iv1.

    > I know this is not your personal fault, so please don't think
    > I blame you. I just think that when HP forces people to move
    > to Wintel/Lintel like this, they have one more reason not to
    > buy their new generic Intel box from HP.


    No problem. I suspect that the biggest difference we have is in how
    we sense the phase of cause and effect

    rick jones
    --
    Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  13. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Rick Jones wrote:
    >
    > I thought these issues were with 11.23 (11iv2) on the C8000, taking it
    > to sw bits for which it was never (IIRC) certified. I suspect that
    > just as the C3750, the C8000 would be perfectly content sitting on
    > 11iv1.


    Michael said he was running 11.11 on his C8000.

    Dennis

    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

  14. Re: zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

    Benjamin Gawert wrote:
    >
    >>> IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.

    >>
    >> So? A C3750 still works fine with 11iv1.

    >
    > My over 10 year old E55 works fine with 11i v1, too. Does that mean it
    > should still be supported by HP?


    No, because the E55 was last supported(tm) in 11.00.
    I would expect this box to run 11.00 with latest patches though.

    >> Say, somebody bought
    >> a C8000 to upgrade a 3750, because he has a PA-RISC application.
    >> How happy do you think he might be when his more recent C8000
    >> just won't work as expected anymore?

    >
    > It works as expected as long as he stays with older HP-UX release. If he
    > needs support he probably would have better get informed before buying a
    > replacement system. HP has clear EOL dates for hardware and software
    > support, it's not their fault when people ignore them.


    That's what Michael does. He runs 11.11 which doesn't support
    his graphics stuff anymore when he applies current patches.
    We don't complain that HP doesn't see a market for 11.23 on
    PA-RISC workstations or 11.31 on IA64 workstations. We complain
    that we run supported configurations and patches break them.

    >> I know this is not your personal fault, so please don't think
    >> I blame you. I just think that when HP forces people to move
    >> to Wintel/Lintel like this, they have one more reason not to
    >> buy their new generic Intel box from HP.

    >
    > In fact, it's the customers who force HP to move to x64 as they aren't
    > willing to pay for the much higher costs of traditional RISC platforms
    > anymore.


    That's another way to see it. If a customer is stupid enough
    to buy the product, it's all his own fault, of course.
    Next, we should expect HP selling their machines on ebay:
    "Privatverkauf ohne Garantie und Gewaehrleistung".
    Personally, I think the traditional customer who once bought
    HP-UX, expects a little more support and he might be willing
    to pay for this too.

    Dennis

    --
    Don't suffer from insanity...
    Enjoy every minute of it.

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