712/60 won't boot - HP UX

This is a discussion on 712/60 won't boot - HP UX ; I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there ...

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Thread: 712/60 won't boot

  1. 712/60 won't boot

    I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I
    get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls
    over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not result
    in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is. Any
    thoughts?

  2. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    jab-ph (jabingb@sbcglobal.net) wrote:
    : I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I
    : get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls
    : over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not result
    : in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is. Any
    : thoughts?

    no os on the disk? Did you try a search and boot each disk in turn?

    --
    Jim Hollenback
    jholly@cup.hp.com
    my opinion.

  3. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Jim,
    Can't get to disk, seems to hang on boot, then drops out to boot_admin.
    Not sure if the disk has been cleaned or? How do I tell?
    Jerry

    Jim Hollenback wrote:
    > jab-ph (jabingb@sbcglobal.net) wrote:
    > : I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I
    > : get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls
    > : over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not result
    > : in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is. Any
    > : thoughts?
    >
    > no os on the disk? Did you try a search and boot each disk in turn?
    >
    > --
    > Jim Hollenback
    > jholly@cup.hp.com
    > my opinion.


  4. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    jab-ph schrieb:

    > I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I
    > get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls
    > over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not result
    > in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is. Any
    > thoughts?


    HP-UX wiped from disk, but the LIF is still there.

    --
    Uli

  5. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Uli,
    What is LIF and where can I get and how do I load HP-UX of some form to
    get the system functional? There is no floppy drive, it had been pulled
    out and I have no external devices.
    Jerry

    Uli Link wrote:
    > jab-ph schrieb:
    >
    >> I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot.
    >> I get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and
    >> falls over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not
    >> result in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is.
    >> Any thoughts?

    >
    >
    > HP-UX wiped from disk, but the LIF is still there.
    >


  6. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    In article , jab-ph
    writes:
    > Uli,
    > What is LIF and where can I get and how do I load HP-UX of some form to
    > get the system functional? There is no floppy drive, it had been pulled
    > out and I have no external devices.


    Get a CD drive and HP-UX CDs.

  7. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    > What is LIF and where can I get and how do I load HP-UX of some form to
    > get the system functional? There is no floppy drive, it had been pulled
    > out and I have no external devices.


    LIF = Logical Interchange Format if I remember correctly.

    The floppy drive is normal PC spec. so you can add one easily enough.

    --
    Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
    Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
    Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
    Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html

  8. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    There is nothing sacred about this box. With a little cutting, I could
    mount a CD drive internally, but is it possible to connect it internally
    seeing that it does not have a floppy drive? I presume the CD must be a
    SCSI device? Is HP-UX s/w available at no charge for this box, as it
    did have UX originally?


    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > In article , jab-ph
    > writes:
    >
    >>Uli,
    >>What is LIF and where can I get and how do I load HP-UX of some form to
    >>get the system functional? There is no floppy drive, it had been pulled
    >>out and I have no external devices.

    >
    >
    > Get a CD drive and HP-UX CDs.


  9. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    > There is nothing sacred about this box. With a little cutting, I could
    > mount a CD drive internally, but is it possible to connect it internally
    > seeing that it does not have a floppy drive? I presume the CD must be a
    > SCSI device? Is HP-UX s/w available at no charge for this box, as it
    > did have UX originally?


    For my 712 I chose not to touch the machine. Almost any external SCSI
    CD-ROM will do. And once the system is loaded you wont need it very
    often. If you plan to enter the "retro business" you will need an
    external drive anyway, since many vintage machines come w/o CD-ROM.
    In this case a Plextor wouldn't be too bad since it is compatible
    with some DEC OSs.
    HP-UX media are sometimes seen on eBay. Leaving legal issues aside,
    technically you can build a fully usable system with them
    (as opposed e.g. to the crippled DEC stuff).

  10. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    jab-ph wrote:

    > I just acquired a 712/60. It has an internal disc but it won't boot. I
    > get as far as the boot screen, it sits there for a few minutes and falls
    > over to the boot_admin screen. Everything I try there does not result
    > in a boot, although it knows where the primary boot device is. Any
    > thoughts?


    My 712/80 came with a stuch disk. It had run several years without powerdown.
    After this time, the grease in the disk has been cooked and once it was cooled
    down, it had fixed the platters.

    Carefull open the disk and give the disk a little spin (about 1/10th of a round
    will do, just to break the 'seal' in the hardened grease.) You will notice you
    need some wrench to do so. Definitly donnot touch the heads or the platters
    themselve. And finaly, turn in the direction the heads point!

    After this, reassemble the disk and it should spin as before. Once it his
    warmed, the grease will do its job. My 712 runs for some years already.


    For booting and installing, you can also use a network-boot. Just setup an other
    unix (linux) system with tftp (the net-image from pa-risk-debian for example)
    and dhcp and let it boot from there.

    IF you donnot have the latest firmware (check on http://www.openpa.net/) the
    update can also be done using netboot, no need for tape or cdrom.

    btw: if you get your hands on a scsi-cdrom and would like to boot, be sure you
    get the proper block size. I always forget which, its just the other from a PC,
    either 0.5 or 2 KByte.


    CBee


  11. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    In article <434bb17f$0$2574$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net>, CBee
    writes:
    > jab-ph wrote:
    > btw: if you get your hands on a scsi-cdrom and would like to boot, be sure you
    > > get the proper block size. I always forget which, its just the other from a

    > PC,
    > either 0.5 or 2 KByte.


    Most non-PC OSs prefer 512 bytes.
    On Plextors one can jumper to "non-blocked" which means 512 bytes.
    I installed my 712 successfully using a Toshiba drive,
    Admittedly I didn't check the blocksize, it simply worked out of the box.

  12. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    CBee schrieb:

    > Carefull open the disk


    Better not! If You don't have a clean-room environment at home don't
    open a hard disk. The dust particles that are in the air are like
    throwing rocks on a record player...

    > and give the disk a little spin (about 1/10th of
    > a round will do, just to break the 'seal' in the hardened grease.) You
    > will notice you need some wrench to do so.


    Better leave the disk closed and move it by hand by applying aprupt
    turnings...

    Benjamin

  13. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Michael Kraemer schrieb:

    > Most non-PC OSs prefer 512 bytes.


    Nope. 512byte Mode is usually only needed by really old computers, i.e.
    SGI 4D series and HP9000/300 series. The HP 700 series incl. the 712
    doesn't need a CDROM that is forced to 512byte mode because the firmware
    handles 2048byte devices easily...

    Same is btw valid for other platforms (newer SGIs, all RS/6000s, newer
    Suns). None of them need a CDROM that can be forced to 512byte Mode..

    Benjamin

  14. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    In article <3r1uhiFhca2vU1@individual.net>, Benjamin Gawert
    writes:
    > Michael Kraemer schrieb:
    >
    > > Most non-PC OSs prefer 512 bytes.

    >
    > Nope. 512byte Mode is usually only needed by really old computers, i.e.
    > SGI 4D series and HP9000/300 series. The HP 700 series incl. the 712
    > doesn't need a CDROM that is forced to 512byte mode because the firmware
    > handles 2048byte devices easily...
    >
    > Same is btw valid for other platforms (newer SGIs, all RS/6000s, newer
    > Suns). None of them need a CDROM that can be forced to 512byte Mode..
    >
    > Benjamin


    well, maybe I shouldn't have written "most".
    But VMS (VAX) and ultrix (about as old as the 9000/300) need 512 bytes as well.
    And IIRC also early RS/6000s (those w/o builtin CDROM) were somewhat picky
    which kind of drive they accepted for installing.


  15. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Michael Kraemer schrieb:

    >>Nope. 512byte Mode is usually only needed by really old computers, i.e.
    >>SGI 4D series and HP9000/300 series. The HP 700 series incl. the 712
    >>doesn't need a CDROM that is forced to 512byte mode because the firmware
    >>handles 2048byte devices easily...
    >>
    >>Same is btw valid for other platforms (newer SGIs, all RS/6000s, newer
    >>Suns). None of them need a CDROM that can be forced to 512byte Mode..
    >>
    >>Benjamin

    >
    >
    > well, maybe I shouldn't have written "most".
    > But VMS (VAX) and ultrix (about as old as the 9000/300) need 512 bytes as well.


    Possible, I never had a VAX or a DEC4000 (but I wish I had one ;-) )...

    > And IIRC also early RS/6000s (those w/o builtin CDROM) were somewhat picky
    > which kind of drive they accepted for installing.


    No. Even the oldest RS/6000s (i.e the 7013-520 or 7012-320 from ~1989)
    work fine with most generic SCSI CDROMs...

    Benjamin

  16. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Michael Kraemer schrieb:

    one thing that comes in mind to me (even if OT):

    > But VMS (VAX) and ultrix (about as old as the 9000/300) need 512 bytes as well.


    Do You know if Alphas need a CDROM with byte mode jumper? If we can find
    a deal on the DEC3000 I'm curious as what CDROM I need. I have some new
    Plextor drives (PX-32CSI) laying around somewhere, but would prefer to
    use a CDROM w/o caddy...

    Benjamin

  17. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Benjamin Gawert schrieb:

    > No. Even the oldest RS/6000s (i.e the 7013-520 or 7012-320 from ~1989)
    > work fine with most generic SCSI CDROMs...


    Yes, you can read CD-ROM with all SCSI drives.
    Not true in terms of "can boot from AIX installation CD".
    The RS/6000 line first appeared in 1990.

    All Plextor, Matsu****a and IBM drives (except the OEM Toshiba 3101) are
    bootable, most Toshiba are not.

    My 712/100 boots from all SCSI CD-ROM drives.

    --
    Uli

  18. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    Benjamin Gawert schrieb:

    > It definitely is true, as I have done this often enough myself to be
    > sure...
    >
    >> The RS/6000 line first appeared in 1990.

    >
    >
    > Nope. We got our first RS/6000 beginning 1989...
    >


    The RS/6000 was first announced in Dec 1989. General availability in
    Spring 1990. The 320 and 520 were the first generation.

    May be a RISC machine with AIX 2 or a prototype?

    Or a PS/2 running AIX 1.2?

    > Most Toshibas work fine, except the 3000 series models...


    I'dont have a 320 but 7012-340,370, 7009-C10,C20, 7006-42T,
    7011-220,250. And some newer PCI machines.

    None of them boot the AIX installation CD if the CD-ROM drives firmware
    isn't recognized by the ROS.

    You can boot from generic SCSI Tape or network. Bootable CD-ROM appeared
    with AIX 4.1 and the mystery says there may exist bootable 3.2.5.1 too.

    --
    Uli

  19. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    In article <3r530hFhq2arU1@individual.net>, Benjamin Gawert
    writes:

    >
    > No. Even the oldest RS/6000s (i.e the 7013-520 or 7012-320 from ~1989)
    > work fine with most generic SCSI CDROMs...
    >


    OK, a bit nitpicking first: these boxes are from 1990/91 :-)
    And they were mostly installed via tape.
    CD-ROM installation became more popular with the 250 pizza boxes,
    and general advice/experience at that time was to use either original
    IBM drives ($$$$) or Plextor.

  20. Re: 712/60 won't boot

    In article <3r5377Fhq2arU2@individual.net>, Benjamin Gawert
    writes:
    > Do You know if Alphas need a CDROM with byte mode jumper?


    alphas are much less picky than their predecessors.

    > If we can find
    > a deal on the DEC3000 I'm curious as what CDROM I need. I have some new
    > Plextor drives (PX-32CSI) laying around somewhere, but would prefer to
    > use a CDROM w/o caddy...


    If it's the DEC3000 we both know I think it has a builtin drive,
    can't remember right now if it's a caddy system or not
    (currently out of sight). But I'd expect an external Plextor to work as well.

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