HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs. - HP UX

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Thread: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

  1. HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actu...Q&news=2947714

    Hewlett Packard: le conseil général de l'Isère souhaite récupérer
    1,25 M EUR


  2. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    Sounds fair, especially if there was a contract that stated the jobs would
    exist until 2008.

    Mike Ober.

    wrote in message
    news:1127141951.086514.154250@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
    http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actu...Q&news=2947714

    Hewlett Packard: le conseil général de l'Isère souhaite récupérer
    1,25 M EUR





  3. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote:
    > http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actu...Q&news=2947714
    >
    > Hewlett Packard: le conseil général de l'Isère souhaite récupérer
    > 1,25 M EUR


    Q. Just how screwed up _is_ the French economic model?
    A. So much so that they need to pay companies to create jobs there.

    A few years back France decided the way to ease its chronic unemployment
    problems was to mandate a shorter work week - at the same pay, of course
    - forcing employers to hire 10% more workers to get the same man-hours
    of work.

    The rest of the world laughed at first. Then, when it was clear this
    wasn't a sick joke, they gasped.

    France, undaunted, undeterred went ahead with this great, new economic
    idea! Now, of course, unemployment is back where it was before the Great
    Idea and companies in France are much less competitive.

    How long will France continue to wallow in the Economic Dark Ages?

  4. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    Z wrote:
    > Q. Just how screwed up _is_ the French economic model?
    > A. So much so that they need to pay companies to create jobs there.


    Same applies to Boeing in Washington State and every other state Boeing
    has facilities, same happens wherever GM/Ford/Chrysler have plants and
    the list goes on and on in the USA.

    I realise that since 2003, it has become fashionable to insult your new
    enemy France. But your ilsuls apply equally to most western nations,
    including your own.

  5. OT: Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got tocreate jobs.

    Hi Z,

    if you put political statements of an uninformed in the world, you
    should have the standing to do this with your full name.

    I don't mind, pseudonyms in technical debates, but if you get personal,
    stand for with your person.

    Florian

  6. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    IIRC, the automotive unions here in the US did something like this a while
    back in order to create more jobs...

    "Z" wrote in message news:0GKXe.15655$Q71.1178@fe02.lga...
    mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote:
    >

    http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actu...Q&news=2947714
    >
    > Hewlett Packard: le conseil général de l'Isère souhaite récupérer
    > 1,25 M EUR


    Q. Just how screwed up _is_ the French economic model?
    A. So much so that they need to pay companies to create jobs there.

    A few years back France decided the way to ease its chronic unemployment
    problems was to mandate a shorter work week - at the same pay, of course
    - forcing employers to hire 10% more workers to get the same man-hours
    of work.

    The rest of the world laughed at first. Then, when it was clear this
    wasn't a sick joke, they gasped.

    France, undaunted, undeterred went ahead with this great, new economic
    idea! Now, of course, unemployment is back where it was before the Great
    Idea and companies in France are much less competitive.

    How long will France continue to wallow in the Economic Dark Ages?



  7. Re: OT: Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    [crossposted to comp.sys.hp.hpux, comp.os.vms]
    [followups to comp.os.vms]

    Florian Anwander wrote in
    news:3p9vkmF9dkngU1@individual.net:



    > I don't mind, pseudonyms in technical debates, but if you get personal,
    > stand for with your person.


    The original crosspost should have been ignored by all parties. The
    crosspost between a unix group and a VMS group is pretty inappropriate.

    I'm sure were the pseudononymous person a regular in your group you might
    have been more forgiving although I understand the sentiment.


    Doc.
    --
    http://www.openvms-rocks.com Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster
    Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.

  8. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > I realise that since 2003, it has become fashionable to insult your new


    Since 2003? No, I've been doing it since the ridiclous shortened work
    week "solution" to unemployment - that was long before 2003.

  9. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    Dennis Couch wrote:
    > IIRC, the automotive unions here in the US did something like this a while
    > back in order to create more jobs...


    The UAW is killing the US auto industry. You simply can't continue to
    pay a UAW monkey $30/hr to do a low-skill job like installing a
    windshield and remain competitive.

  10. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    In article , Z writes:
    >Dennis Couch wrote:
    >> IIRC, the automotive unions here in the US did something like this a while
    >> back in order to create more jobs...

    >
    >The UAW is killing the US auto industry. You simply can't continue to
    >pay a UAW monkey $30/hr to do a low-skill job like installing a
    >windshield and remain competitive.


    I'm on vacation, so I guess I can get involved in an off-topic discussion.

    Maybe it's wages, but I suspect that to a large chunk it's healthcare and
    pension benefits. Part of the problem for, eg, United Airlines in competing
    with, eg, JetBlue (aside from not having cherry-picked routes, and having an
    old fleet to maintain) is a whole bunch of older workers whose health insurance
    must be paid by the employer.

    In some other countries, there are national health-care systems that are tax
    funded, and the age of your companies work force doesn't make a difference to
    your operating expenses.

    -- Alan


  11. Re: OT: Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to create jobs.

    Doc. wrote:
    > [crossposted to comp.sys.hp.hpux, comp.os.vms]
    > [followups to comp.os.vms]


    ["Followup-To: comp.os.vms" ignored.

    > Florian Anwander wrote in
    > news:3p9vkmF9dkngU1@individual.net:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I don't mind, pseudonyms in technical debates, but if you get personal,
    > > stand for with your person.

    >
    > The original crosspost should have been ignored by all parties. The
    > crosspost between a unix group and a VMS group is pretty inappropriate.


    Exactly which part of "HP" in the subject didn't you understand?

    You may consider the subject *off-topic*, but comp.sys.hp.hpux and
    comp.os.vms are both HP-related groups. UNIX 'versus' VMS has nothing to
    do with it.

    > I'm sure were the pseudononymous person a regular in your group you might
    > have been more forgiving although I understand the sentiment.
    >
    >
    > Doc.
    > --
    > http://www.openvms-rocks.com Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster
    > Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.


  12. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    Z wrote:
    >
    > Dennis Couch wrote:
    > > IIRC, the automotive unions here in the US did something like this a while
    > > back in order to create more jobs...

    >
    > The UAW is killing the US auto industry.


    To quote Bill Todd, "Horse****!"

    > You simply can't continue to
    > pay a UAW monkey $30/hr to do a low-skill job like installing a
    > windshield and remain competitive.


    If you consider installing a windshield to be a "a low-skill job" I'd be
    surprised if you said you trust *ANY* motor vehicle at all.

    I'm sure the "UAW monkey"s would take great exception to that
    classification.

    Clearly, however, you not where of you speak.

    Perhaps you'd like to see the illegals aliens doing such "low-skill
    job"s for slave-labor pay (if any), and still expect the manufacturer to
    honor a warranty and provide a safe, reliable product ... ?

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Coming soon:
    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

  13. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    David J Dachtera wrote:
    > > The UAW is killing the US auto industry.

    >
    > To quote Bill Todd, "Horse****!"


    Cow-processed grass !

    When defined benenit programmes (retirement & health) were established,
    actuaries were put to task to set these up. The later assumed a certain
    return on investment, as well as a constantly growing work force to make
    contributions to the plans.

    The high returns on investments in the 1990s compensated for a start of
    downsizing trends. When the investments went from overperforming to
    underperforming in 2000/2001, those funds started to get heavier and
    heavier.

    When you look at HP, HP didn't have any problems announcing it was
    ending defined benefit programmes and now using defined contributions.
    But in the case of unionised companies such as car industry and
    airlines, the companies couldn't dare do that because unions would
    revolt and go on strike. As a result, those companies are now straddled
    with huge liabilities/obligations which will require the company
    actually spend far more than it can to fill the definit in those plans.

  14. Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs.

    JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    > David J Dachtera wrote:
    > > > The UAW is killing the US auto industry.

    > >
    > > To quote Bill Todd, "Horse****!"

    >
    > Cow-processed grass !
    >
    > When defined benenit programmes (retirement & health) were established,
    > actuaries were put to task to set these up. The later assumed a certain
    > return on investment, as well as a constantly growing work force to make
    > contributions to the plans.
    >
    > The high returns on investments in the 1990s compensated for a start of
    > downsizing trends. When the investments went from overperforming to
    > underperforming in 2000/2001, those funds started to get heavier and
    > heavier.
    >
    > When you look at HP, HP didn't have any problems announcing it was
    > ending defined benefit programmes and now using defined contributions.
    > But in the case of unionised companies such as car industry and
    > airlines, the companies couldn't dare do that because unions would
    > revolt and go on strike. As a result, those companies are now straddled
    > with huge liabilities/obligations


    Ooohhh, careful there!

    Remember: these companies have had the same obligations all along. They
    just chose to procrastinate them. Now we see pension funds underfunded
    to the tune of billions of dollars, companies facing hurdles they set in
    their own paths and now find insurmountable, and all the other "wages of
    sin".

    > which will require the company
    > actually spend far more than it can to fill the definit in those plans.


    Had they been properly honoring their obligations all along, they
    wouldn't be seeing this mess of their own making.

    They made their beds. They must now lay in them.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Coming soon:
    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

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