HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working - HP UX

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Thread: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

  1. HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    Hi,

    I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

    -Kari-



  2. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working


    "Kari Keronen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    > that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    > (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
    >


    Here Reflection X (on W2K) with HPUX 10.20 on "the other side" works correctly.
    The one thing which comes to mind, is to get 'xev' (maybe already present) and have a look at the key events a key with and without AltGr generates.
    This gives a hint, if the keymapping is wrong, or if there is some more obscure problem.

    HTH

    Martin



  3. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    In article , Martin Jost wrote:
    >
    > "Kari Keronen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    >> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    >> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

    >
    > Here Reflection X (on W2K) with HPUX 10.20 on "the other side" works correctly.
    > The one thing which comes to mind, is to get 'xev' (maybe already present) and have a look at the key events a key with and without AltGr generates.
    > This gives a hint, if the keymapping is wrong, or if there is some more obscure problem.


    I've been having a similar problem, with HP-UX 10.20, 11.00 and 11.11
    all, and several different patch levels of each too, and a more varied
    lineup of X server ends too (including several different versions of
    Linux including several RedHat versions or derivatives and some others,
    and some but not all *BSDs, but notably not the locally most common
    kind of X server on Windows, nor any commercial UNIX that I could
    test on.)

    I didn't find a HP-UX binary for xev, so I built it from source ... and
    it worked just fine, with all the AltGr characters too like ¤, but the
    existing applications still didn't work. (No difference between
    /usr/contrib/bin/X11/xterm and /usr/bin/X11/xterm in this regard.)
    It was a reasonable suggestion though, too bad that it didn't help me
    any.

    I think it definitely is the "more obscure problem" here.

    I think I did post here back when I was trying to make sense of it last
    time. I still haven't made any progress. Anyone else?

    Anyone who gets this problem on a keyboard layout other than the
    Finnish/Swedish one that I use and mr. Keronen probably does too?


    --
    Mikko Nahkola
    #include
    #Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

  4. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    "Kari Keronen" writes:

    > I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    > that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    > (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?


    I have seen the same problem.

    I have a sneaking suspicion this might be related to X11R6.x protocol
    extension named "XKEYBOARD". It is supposed to allow us to use all
    kinds of keyboards without ever using the "xmodmap" command. It even
    seems to work, as long as the clients (or their X client libraries?)
    support this extension.

    However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
    AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.
    Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
    levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
    "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
    with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

    If ReflectionX's XKEYBOARD implementation is modeled after XOrg code,
    the cause might be similar.

    --
    Matti.Kurkela@welho.com

  5. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
    > "Kari Keronen" writes:
    >
    >> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    >> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    >> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

    >
    > I have seen the same problem.
    >
    > I have a sneaking suspicion this might be related to X11R6.x protocol
    > extension named "XKEYBOARD". It is supposed to allow us to use all
    > kinds of keyboards without ever using the "xmodmap" command. It even
    > seems to work, as long as the clients (or their X client libraries?)
    > support this extension.


    That does make sense, too bad that nothing on HP-UX seemed to know about
    the extension last time I looked ... and on the X servers that use it,
    disabling it doesn't work. Well, it _does_ get disabled, sure... but the
    legacy keyboard code no longer worked either on the thing I tried it on.

    > However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
    > AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.
    > Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
    > levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
    > "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
    > with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.


    Have to see if that'd help.

    > If ReflectionX's XKEYBOARD implementation is modeled after XOrg code,
    > the cause might be similar.




    --
    Mikko Nahkola
    #include
    #Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

  6. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    Mikko Nahkola writes:

    > In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
    >> "Kari Keronen" writes:


    >>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    >>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    >>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?


    >> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
    >> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.


    >> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
    >> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
    >> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
    >> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

    >
    > Have to see if that'd help.


    With a bit of googling I found this:

    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933

    In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
    file to work around this problem.

    I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
    above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
    AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
    but have only the lower case set up at the moment.

    A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
    on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.

    My xmodmap file is available at:
    https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt

    The ReflectionX might use a different set of keycodes, so my file may
    not work for that.

    --
    Matti.Kurkela@welho.com

  7. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    "Kari Keronen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    > that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    > (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
    >


    Follow-up on my own post - just for the record (aka google):
    [And yes, I have seen the other posts, and know that the problem might be / is fixed]
    I just found (again) that Reflection X uses a keymap-file itself.
    It can be found in the control panel under Options/Keyboard/Set default Keymap.
    There is also a keymap editor.

    Those might help too.

    Martin


  8. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    In article <87slx02z62.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
    > Mikko Nahkola writes:
    >
    >> In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
    >>> "Kari Keronen" writes:

    >
    >>>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
    >>>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
    >>>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

    >
    >>> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
    >>> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.

    >
    >>> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
    >>> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
    >>> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
    >>> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

    >
    > With a bit of googling I found this:
    > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933
    > In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
    > file to work around this problem.
    >
    > I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
    > above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
    > AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
    > but have only the lower case set up at the moment.
    >
    > A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
    > on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.
    >
    > My xmodmap file is available at:
    > https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt


    Thanks, yes, it does seem to work - I've been otherwise busy elsewhere,
    myself. (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
    fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)



    --
    Mikko Nahkola
    #include
    #Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

  9. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working

    $DRIFT ON

    Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    [deleted]
    > (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
    > fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)


    frecover is (also) available in /sbin [1] for exactly this issue.
    Otherwise crash recovery (with Ignite-UX) would not work. Don't
    know/remember if fbackup is also available in /sbin.

    IIRC, cpio or/and tar is also available in a non-/usr directory,
    probably also /sbin.

    [1] Of course as a archived-library (non-shared-library) version,
    otherwise /usr would still be needed.

    $DRIFT OFF

  10. Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working


    "Matti Juhani Kurkela" kirjoitti viestissä
    news:87slx02z62.fsf@ryoko.home...
    > Mikko Nahkola writes:
    >
    > > In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
    > >> "Kari Keronen" writes:

    >
    > >>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The

    problem is
    > >>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind

    AltGr key
    > >>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

    >
    > >> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
    > >> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support

    XKEYBOARD.
    >
    > >> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
    > >> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
    > >> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
    > >> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

    > >
    > > Have to see if that'd help.

    >
    > With a bit of googling I found this:
    >
    > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933
    >
    > In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
    > file to work around this problem.
    >
    > I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
    > above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
    > AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
    > but have only the lower case set up at the moment.
    >
    > A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
    > on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.
    >
    > My xmodmap file is available at:
    > https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt
    >
    > The ReflectionX might use a different set of keycodes, so my file may
    > not work for that.


    It did not work. So I desided to use Reflection X own keymapping as a
    workaround. Not actually what I wanted to do.

    -Kari-
    >
    > --
    > Matti.Kurkela@welho.com




  11. Emergency (as in, almost too late) backup tools [was Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working]

    In article <430d7cb3$0$993$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    > $DRIFT ON
    >
    > Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    > [deleted]
    >> (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
    >> fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)

    >
    > frecover is (also) available in /sbin [1] for exactly this issue.
    > Otherwise crash recovery (with Ignite-UX) would not work. Don't
    > know/remember if fbackup is also available in /sbin.


    Well, yes, I was trying to get something further backed up before
    pulling the disk with the big hole (I/O error) where /usr used to be.
    (All the other volumes seemed to be whole.)

    That thing wasn't on any backup schedule as it was a "crash-and-burn"
    kind of workstation, and the users hadn't remembered to pull some of the
    useful data out since last backup.

    > IIRC, cpio or/and tar is also available in a non-/usr directory,
    > probably also /sbin.


    Yes, tar is available, that's what I ended up using. It's just that tar
    is a bit ... well, let's say "limited in some respects".

    (Except GNU tar which is astonishingly complicated even for a GNU tool,
    playing in the same league as fbackup but not quite as well - except for
    the cross-platform thing where it's far ahead.)

    > [1] Of course as a archived-library (non-shared-library) version,
    > otherwise /usr would still be needed.


    And don't even try to build archive-only binaries of anything GNU these
    days...



    --
    Mikko Nahkola
    #include
    #Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

  12. Re: Emergency (as in, almost too late) backup tools [was Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working]

    Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    > In article <430d7cb3$0$993$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    > > $DRIFT ON
    > >
    > > Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    > > [deleted]
    > >> (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
    > >> fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)

    > >
    > > frecover is (also) available in /sbin [1] for exactly this issue.
    > > Otherwise crash recovery (with Ignite-UX) would not work. Don't
    > > know/remember if fbackup is also available in /sbin.

    >
    > Well, yes, I was trying to get something further backed up before
    > pulling the disk with the big hole (I/O error) where /usr used to be.
    > (All the other volumes seemed to be whole.)
    >
    > That thing wasn't on any backup schedule as it was a "crash-and-burn"
    > kind of workstation, and the users hadn't remembered to pull some of the
    > useful data out since last backup.
    >
    > > IIRC, cpio or/and tar is also available in a non-/usr directory,
    > > probably also /sbin.

    >
    > Yes, tar is available, that's what I ended up using. It's just that tar
    > is a bit ... well, let's say "limited in some respects".


    Is f*backup* also in /sbin? I can't remember and have no easy way to
    check. The manpages only mention /usr/sbin for both fbackup and
    frecover, but since frecover also lives in /sbin maybe fbackup does as
    well (and in that case you could have used fbackup instead of tar).

    [deleted]

  13. Re: Emergency (as in, almost too late) backup tools [was Re: HP-UX 11i, Reflection X 13: AltGr not working]

    In article <430dccf0$0$993$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    > Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    >> In article <430d7cb3$0$993$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    >> > $DRIFT ON
    >> >
    >> > Mikko Nahkola wrote:
    >> > [deleted]
    >> >> (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
    >> >> fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)
    >> >
    >> > frecover is (also) available in /sbin [1] for exactly this issue.
    >> > Otherwise crash recovery (with Ignite-UX) would not work. Don't
    >> > know/remember if fbackup is also available in /sbin.

    >>
    >> Well, yes, I was trying to get something further backed up before
    >> pulling the disk with the big hole (I/O error) where /usr used to be.
    >> (All the other volumes seemed to be whole.)
    >>
    >> That thing wasn't on any backup schedule as it was a "crash-and-burn"
    >> kind of workstation, and the users hadn't remembered to pull some of the
    >> useful data out since last backup.
    >>
    >> > IIRC, cpio or/and tar is also available in a non-/usr directory,
    >> > probably also /sbin.

    >>
    >> Yes, tar is available, that's what I ended up using. It's just that tar
    >> is a bit ... well, let's say "limited in some respects".

    >
    > Is f*backup* also in /sbin? I can't remember and have no easy way to
    > check.


    Is not. Which was precisely my point. Shouldn't have mentioned frecover
    at that point anyway.

    > The manpages only mention /usr/sbin for both fbackup and
    > frecover, but since frecover also lives in /sbin maybe fbackup does as
    > well (and in that case you could have used fbackup instead of tar).


    mnahkola$ uname -mrsv ; ls -lartd /sbin/f*
    HP-UX B.11.11 U 9000/785
    -r-xr-xr-x 2 bin bin 180224 Nov 14 2000 /sbin/false
    lrwxr-xr-x 1 root sys 16 Feb 5 2002 /sbin/fsck -> /sbin/fs_wrapper
    lrwxr-xr-x 1 root root 16 Feb 5 2002 /sbin/fsdb -> /sbin/fs_wrapper
    -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 233472 Jun 8 2002 /sbin/fs_wrapper
    -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 225280 Oct 15 2002 /sbin/fsclean
    -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 368640 Apr 17 2003 /sbin/frecover
    dr-xr-xr-x 11 bin bin 1024 May 7 2003 /sbin/fs
    -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 327680 Oct 27 2003 /sbin/fstyp
    mnahkola$

    Oh, and /sbin/frecover is over three times the size of
    /usr/sbin/frecover, with the static/dynamic linking difference, so they
    aren't the same executable anyway.


    --
    Mikko Nahkola
    #include
    #Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

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