future of hp pa-risc processors? - HP UX

This is a discussion on future of hp pa-risc processors? - HP UX ; Dear HP friends what is the future (and what is the current stage) of hp PA-RISC processsors? Is PA-8800 good as compared to Xeon or Opteron? Why is it so expensive? -- Pavel Pokorny Math Dept, Prague Institute of Chemical ...

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  1. future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Dear HP friends

    what is the future (and what is the current stage)
    of hp PA-RISC processsors?

    Is PA-8800 good
    as compared to Xeon or Opteron?
    Why is it so expensive?

    --
    Pavel Pokorny
    Math Dept, Prague Institute of Chemical Technology
    http://www.vscht.cz/mat/Pavel.Pokorny

  2. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:05:05 +0000 (UTC)
    Pavel Pokorny wrote:

    > Dear HP friends
    >
    > what is the future (and what is the current stage)
    > of hp PA-RISC processsors?


    Judging from latest 8900, it looks pretty bright. Itanium2 is less than
    expected, and has no market success, while HPPA still keeps its
    stronghold (i.e. market share), pretty well.

    > Is PA-8800 good as compared to Xeon or Opteron?


    We are talking about different architectures. not mention that PA was 64-bit
    RISC architecture long before Intel and AMD started competing with their
    almost-64-bit specs. RISC by definition is simpler, easier to provide
    superscalarity. IA64 still carries the i386 burden for backwards compatibility.

    > Why is it so expensive?


    Expensive? It's about the price of Itanium processors. And I got my 8700+ for
    0 USD (Kudos to Grant Grundler)

  3. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:
    > On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:05:05 +0000 (UTC)
    > Pavel Pokorny wrote:
    >
    >> Dear HP friends
    >>
    >>what is the future (and what is the current stage)
    >>of hp PA-RISC processsors?

    >
    > Judging from latest 8900, it looks pretty bright. Itanium2 is less than
    > expected, and has no market success, while HPPA still keeps its
    > stronghold (i.e. market share), pretty well.


    PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP
    representative.

    AFAIK, the 8900 is the end of the line. Forward looking purchases
    need to focus on HP's new flagship, Itanium2 (and beyond).

    >
    >>Is PA-8800 good as compared to Xeon or Opteron?

    >
    > We are talking about different architectures. not mention that PA was 64-bit
    > RISC architecture long before Intel and AMD started competing with their
    > almost-64-bit specs. RISC by definition is simpler, easier to provide
    > superscalarity. IA64 still carries the i386 burden for backwards compatibility.
    >
    >>Why is it so expensive?

    >
    > Expensive? It's about the price of Itanium processors. And I got my 8700+ for
    > 0 USD (Kudos to Grant Grundler)


    Moving forward... HP is ONLY Itanium.

    Whether that is is a good thing or bad thing is for you to decide.

    If you're buying something new from HP, it would be foolish to buy
    PA-RISC... unless you just have to have that.


  4. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    > > Judging from latest 8900, it looks pretty bright. Itanium2 is less
    > > than expected, and has no market success, while HPPA still keeps its
    > > stronghold (i.e. market share), pretty well.

    >
    > PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP
    > representative.


    Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too... I still believe that, since people
    abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!), that may be a good
    sign...

  5. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:

    > Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too... I still believe that, since people
    > abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!), that may be a good
    > sign...


    A good sign for what? They won't move to PA-RISC. IBM will stick on its
    POWER5 (and they do well) or use Xeon, Opteron and maybe Itanium.

    PA-RISC has no future since further development is stalled. The last
    chip releases were slightly improves over older designs but nothing
    really new.

    BTW: What is "SGI"?

    Grüße
    Götz (working on 7xx, C132, C2x0, C3x00 and J2240 and loving it)
    --
    http://www.knubbelmac.de/

  6. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Goetz Hoffart wrote:
    > Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:


    > > Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too... I still believe that, since people
    > > abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!), that may be a good
    > > sign...


    > A good sign for what? They won't move to PA-RISC. IBM will stick on its
    > POWER5 (and they do well) or use Xeon, Opteron and maybe Itanium.


    > PA-RISC has no future since further development is stalled. The last
    > chip releases were slightly improves over older designs but nothing
    > really new.


    Do HP people read this newsgroup?
    Could someone of them spend an informal advice here?

    I am not interested in a platform used by the majority
    of the planet. This will be the first target of software terrorists.
    I want a machine that computes my equations and is reliable enough.

    --
    Pavel Pokorny
    Math Dept, Prague Institute of Chemical Technology
    http://www.vscht.cz/mat/Pavel.Pokorny

  7. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    My company migrated all HP-UX to Itanium2. We love it! Great performance
    benefit.


    "Pavel Pokorny" wrote in message
    news:dbiq9h$13mg$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz...
    > Dear HP friends
    >
    > what is the future (and what is the current stage)
    > of hp PA-RISC processsors?
    >
    > Is PA-8800 good
    > as compared to Xeon or Opteron?
    > Why is it so expensive?
    >
    > --
    > Pavel Pokorny
    > Math Dept, Prague Institute of Chemical Technology
    > http://www.vscht.cz/mat/Pavel.Pokorny
    >




  8. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Pavel,

    I've focused on HP-UX for about 10 years now, though I've worked with
    other [primarily Unix] OS' over the years.

    HP-UX on either PA or IA is a good OS. And there are many businesses
    running on PA. I don't know the percentage of IA to PA, though I've
    worked with many new IA systems.

    I don't see PA going away any time soon.

    You'll find much asisstance where needed in this group, or through
    HP's Response Center.

    Eric Stahl

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:09:13 +0000 (UTC), Pavel Pokorny
    wrote:

    >Goetz Hoffart wrote:
    >> Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:

    >
    >> > Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too... I still believe that, since people
    >> > abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!), that may be a good
    >> > sign...

    >
    >> A good sign for what? They won't move to PA-RISC. IBM will stick on its
    >> POWER5 (and they do well) or use Xeon, Opteron and maybe Itanium.

    >
    >> PA-RISC has no future since further development is stalled. The last
    >> chip releases were slightly improves over older designs but nothing
    >> really new.

    >
    >Do HP people read this newsgroup?
    >Could someone of them spend an informal advice here?
    >
    >I am not interested in a platform used by the majority
    >of the planet. This will be the first target of software terrorists.
    >I want a machine that computes my equations and is reliable enough.



  9. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:

    >> PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP
    >> representative.

    >
    > Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too...


    Honestly, no. Even before the PA-8800 came out HP told us that the end
    of the line will be the 8900...

    > I still believe that,
    > since people abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!),
    > that may be a good sign...


    SGI is abandoning Itanium? How do You come to this? SGI has abandoned
    its slow and outdated MIPS/IRIX line, and fully relies on Itanium2 for
    their remaining products...

    IBM never ever had any interest in IA64 as they have their own high end
    platform (POWER5)...

    Nothing of this changes the fact that PA-RISC simply is dead...

    Benjamin


  10. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Benjamin Gawert wrote:
    > Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote:
    >
    >>> PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP
    >>> representative.

    >>
    >>
    >> Yeah, yeah, we heard that about 8800 too...

    >
    >
    > Honestly, no. Even before the PA-8800 came out HP told us that the end
    > of the line will be the 8900...
    >
    >> I still believe that,
    >> since people abandon interest in Itanium (hey, even IBM and SGI!),
    >> that may be a good sign...

    >
    >
    > SGI is abandoning Itanium? How do You come to this? SGI has abandoned
    > its slow and outdated MIPS/IRIX line, and fully relies on Itanium2 for
    > their remaining products...
    >
    > IBM never ever had any interest in IA64 as they have their own high end
    > platform (POWER5)...


    Really?

    "IBM pulled in $115m from Itanium sales in all of 2004."

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02...tanic_chipset/



    > Nothing of this changes the fact that PA-RISC simply is dead...
    >
    > Benjamin


    Not dead yet, but it is actively being killed. Still that's better than
    the Itanic, which isn't showing signs of life four years after being "born".

  11. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Goetz Hoffart wrote:
    > BTW: What is "SGI"?


    Silicon Graphics, Inc.

    --
    Alex.

  12. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Alex van Denzel wrote:

    > > BTW: What is "SGI"?

    >
    > Silicon Graphics, Inc.


    Gnnn! ;-) My intention was "SGI is not dead but smells funny"

    Grüße
    Götz
    --
    http://www.knubbelmac.de/

  13. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Chris Cox wrote:
    > PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP representative.


    Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    dead in relation to them

    > AFAIK, the 8900 is the end of the line. Forward looking purchases
    > need to focus on HP's new flagship, Itanium2 (and beyond).


    Indeed, the PA-8900 is the last PA-RISC processor, and all future "HP
    9000-like" systems will be based on the Itanium2 and its successors.

    rick jones
    --
    The computing industry isn't as much a game of "Follow The Leader" as
    it is one of "Ring Around the Rosy" or perhaps "Duck Duck Goose."
    - Rick Jones
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  14. [OT] anthropomorphization Was: future of hp pa-risc processors?


    "Rick Jones" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:xPvFe.9263$8c6.9175@news.cpqcorp.net...
    > Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    > time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    > dead in relation to them


    Seems to be done quite often. And I tend to do so myself.
    See e.g. The Hackers New Dictionary: http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/ant...phization.html

    SCNR

    Martin




  15. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Rick Jones wrote:
    > Chris Cox wrote:
    >>PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP representative.

    >
    > Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    > time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    > dead in relation to them


    Actually, I said DEAD.. not dead. Now we just have to figure
    out resonable values for this new acronym (what engineers
    to with 80% of their time!).

  16. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    "Chris Cox" wrote in message
    news:11evc761gk8cf96@corp.supernews.com...
    > Rick Jones wrote:
    > > Chris Cox wrote:
    > >>PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP representative.

    > >
    > > Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    > > time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    > > dead in relation to them

    >
    > Actually, I said DEAD.. not dead. Now we just have to figure
    > out resonable values for this new acronym (what engineers
    > to with 80% of their time!).


    Declared End of Architecture Design ?



  17. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Kilgaard wrote:
    > "Chris Cox" wrote in message
    > news:11evc761gk8cf96@corp.supernews.com...
    >>Rick Jones wrote:
    >>>Chris Cox wrote:
    >>>>PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP representative.
    >>>Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    >>>time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    >>>dead in relation to them

    >>Actually, I said DEAD.. not dead. Now we just have to figure
    >>out resonable values for this new acronym (what engineers
    >>to with 80% of their time!).

    >
    > Declared End of Architecture Design ?
    >


    Thanks.. that's perfect!


  18. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    Chris Cox wrote:

    > Kilgaard wrote:
    >
    >>"Chris Cox" wrote in message
    >>news:11evc761gk8cf96@corp.supernews.com...
    >>
    >>>Rick Jones wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Chris Cox wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>PA-RISC is DEAD.. you really need to talk to your HP representative.
    >>>>
    >>>>Given that CPUs are not "living" things we (as a group, I slip-up from
    >>>>time to time myself) really have to stop using terms like living or
    >>>>dead in relation to them
    >>>
    >>>Actually, I said DEAD.. not dead. Now we just have to figure
    >>>out resonable values for this new acronym (what engineers
    >>>to with 80% of their time!).

    >>
    >>Declared End of Architecture Design ?
    >>

    >
    >
    > Thanks.. that's perfect!
    >



    These discussions always make me think about an introduction meeting of the
    itanium at HPs: I recall a timeline picture that showed a move from pa 8200 and
    8300 to itanium. There might also come a 8400 but that would definitly be it...
    History only has proven otherwise.


    CBee

  19. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    "CBee" wrote in message
    news:4301e439$0$10621$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net ...
    > These discussions always make me think about an introduction meeting of
    > the itanium at HPs: I recall a timeline picture that showed a move from pa
    > 8200 and 8300 to itanium. There might also come a 8400 but that would
    > definitly be it... History only has proven otherwise.


    we had hp at our company recently and i asked them point-blank about this as
    i sat in the exact same presentations back in '97 or so.. "merced is the
    future, no more PA processors past the 8200/8300, blah blah blah." they all
    looked rather sheepish about it.. but admitted it's a long-standing claim
    that has yet to prove true.

    -r



  20. Re: future of hp pa-risc processors?

    CBee wrote:
    ....
    >>

    >
    >
    > These discussions always make me think about an introduction meeting of
    > the itanium at HPs: I recall a timeline picture that showed a move from
    > pa 8200 and 8300 to itanium. There might also come a 8400 but that would
    > definitly be it... History only has proven otherwise.



    Indeed... HP also promised that the only OS they'd be using would
    be Windows NT at one point. A story can certainly change over
    time.

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