Mr. Byrne,

Your supposed rhetoric does nothing to prove your original post...

""for having made utterances with no more evil intent than that of the OP.
A number of them are imprisoned by the United States Government itself or
by national authorities acting on its behest."

....and any statement of fact cannot have your quote.."this person may have "...

I congratulate you for having the knowledge of all things related to the inner
workings of our government. Maybe obama can use you as a member of his cabinet.

Your arrogance shines through and I have no more time to waste on your ilk.

Ernie
________________________________________
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of James B. Byrne [byrnejb@HARTE-LYNE.CA]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 6:06 PM
To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
Subject: [HP3000-L] OT: Civil Discourse

On: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:10:01 -0800, "Newton, Ernie" wrote:

Snippet from James B. Byrne...

A number of them are imprisoned by the United States Government itself or
by national authorities acting on its behest.>

>> Really?
>>
>> Name two.
>> Ernie

Maher Arar, Canadian
Abdullah Almalki, Canadian
Ahmad Abou-Elmaati, Canadian
Muayyed Nureddin, Canadian
Khaled el-Masri, German
Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, Egyptian

There are an estimated 1100 others documented by Human Rights Watch and
Amnesty International. Some, like the Canadians listed above, have been
released. Most have not. I could also list Omar Khadr, taken by U.S.
Forces at the age of fourteen and presently held at Guantanamo Bay since
he was fifteen.

Omar Khadr has been charged with murder, which is a curious accusation to
level at someone who was taken as a wounded combatant following a U.S.
instigated attack upon a fixed position, but we will pass over that for
the moment. As a fourteen year-old Omar should have been treated as a
child soldier, a victim not a perpetrator. Consider that the United
States itself enacted as law the Child Soldiers Accountability Act,
Chapter 118 of title 18, Sec. 2442, "Recruitment or use of child soldiers"
which makes it illegal to recruit or employ children under the age of
fifteen as combatants.

Further, despite U.S. claims regarding this captive's actions, documents
which were withheld from his defence team but subsequently released
indicate that there is reason to believe that, far from murdering a U.S.
soldier, this person may have been the victim of a botched battlefield
execution by one or more U.S. personnel.
http://www.thestar.com/article/345838

Your evident ignorance, wilful or not, of your country's actions around
the world these past eight years does you no credit.

--
*** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca
Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
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Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
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http://www.nogw.com/warcrimes.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com...7_treason.html

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 118 > § 2441

§ 2441. War crimes

(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits
a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or
both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the
penalty of death.
(b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that
the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a
member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United
States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).
(c) Definition.— As used in this section the term “war crime” means any
conduct—
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed
at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the
United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague
Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18
October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international
conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such
convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with
non-international armed conflict; or
(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the
provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of
Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996
(Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to
such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.


The Republican Party - the Case for Treason
September 17, 2002
By Anonymous

I hereby accuse the Republican Party of committing repeated acts of High
Treason against the United States. I submit the following list of charges,
and respectfully demand that the Congress investigate them fully, in an open
and public way, and take appropriate action if the investigation concludes
that the accused are guilty:

Charge 1: That during the presidential campaign of 1968, members of the
Republican Party, not then in office, did harm the safety and credibility of
the United States, and did bring about the death of thousands of US military
personnel, by making secret contact with and negotiating with an enemy of
the United States, the government of North Vietnam, in an attempt to induce
that foreign government to postpone peace negotiations with the rightful
government of the United States, and thereby prolong the war, for the
purpose of gaining political advantage from the failure of those talks.

Charge 2: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
to, members of the Richard Nixon Administration, did abuse the power of
their office and put the safety and credibility of the United States in
jeopardy, in order to aid the interests of private political donors. To wit,
that members of the Republican Party, as members of the Nixon
Administration, interfered in the affairs of a sovereign nation, Chile, and
did actively and illegally promote and participate in a coup d'etat in that
country--including acts of murder--avowedly for the purpose of protecting
the United States from the presumed threat of a Socialist government in
Chile, but actually to protect the financial interests of several large
corporate donors to the Republican Party who did business in that country.

Charge 3: That members of the Republican Party, including members of the
administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, harmed the safety
and credibility of the United States by conducting an arms deal with the
nation of Iran in direct violation of US law, then obstructed justice and
lied to the Congress to cover for it, and subsequently abused their power of
office by pardoning themselves to avoid criminal penalty.

Charge 4: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to
members of the Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush Administrations, put the
safety and credibility of the United States at risk by spending US treasure
to provide military equipment and training to the nation of Iraq--a nation
which the current Administration now claims presents a clear and present
danger to the United States--despite the knowledge that the government of
Iraq was a threat to peace, and had committed atrocities against its own
people and against others, and despite the certainty that this military
funding would undermine the moral authority of the United States to act in
self defense against Iraq in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Charge 5. That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to
members of Congress, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States
by diverting its treasure and attention to a partisan political pursuit of
President William Clinton--which pursuit included:

a. the planting of a Republican party spy in the White House;
b. the misuse of the FBI and the Department of Justice for partisan
political gain;
c. the bullying of witnesses known to be innocent;
d. the denying of counsel to witnesses;
e. the intentional leaking of erroneous information to the press;
f. the setting of a "perjury trap" for the President of the United States.

Further, I charge that this self-serving partisan attack divided and
diverted the attention of the United States at a time that terrorist enemies
were plotting against the nation. Indeed, when in 1998 President Clinton
attempted to strike at a terrorist base in Sudan, the Republican Party
openly mocked and attempted to undermine the credibility of the effort,
doing so purely for the purposes of further partisan political gain.

Charge 6: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
to, members of the Administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and
George W. Bush, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States by
causing papers and documents related to their activities conducted in the
name of the public to be removed from public view and access, for the avowed
purpose of protecting the nation, but actually for the purpose of hiding
from the public activities which, if revealed, would be politically damaging
to themselves. The various acts of this nature by members of the Republican
Party are in violation of both the letter and the spirit of the laws which
require and demand transparency in our government, and without which freedom
and democracy cannot survive.

Charge 7: That members of the Republican Party, acting as agents of The
Halliburton Company, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States
by covertly conducting business with the nation of Iraq, in direct violation
of US law, and in doing so provided Iraq with the means to purchase the
weapons of mass destruction with which it now threatens the United States
and its citizens around the world.

Charge 8: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to
members of the George W. Bush Administration, did harm the safety,
credibility, and financial well-being of the United States, by
misrepresenting or obscuring the actions of their Administration and other
government agencies before, during, and after the terrorist attacks of
9/11/2001, for the purpose of protecting themselves from political damage.
Specifically, that:

a. members of the Republican party, as members of the Bush Administration,
damaged the reputation of the Presidency of the United States by propagating
a false story that the White House was a terrorist target on 9/11/2001;

b. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
the George W. Bush Administration, have failed to give the public a full and
open accounting of the security and intelligence failures that allowed the
terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001 to succeed in killing thousands of Americans;


c. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
the George W. Bush Administration, have so far held no individual or agency
responsible for those gross failures, despite voluminous evidence that
individuals and agencies responsible should have recognized that the attacks
were coming;

d. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
the George W. Bush Administration, have attempted to thwart a thorough
investigation into those gross failures, going as far as instigating an FBI
probe to find who in the government "leaked" details of the failures to the
press, without which leaks the public would have little knowledge of the
failures;

e. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
the George W. Bush Administration, have harmed the safety and credibility of
the United States by using the terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001 as a pretext
to further their pre-existing political agenda, ignoring or misrepresenting
the nature, causes, and sources of the attacks in order to lend support to
their partisan arguments in favor of:

1. drilling for oil in ANWR;
2. continuing to fund a National Missile Defense Program;
3. invading the nation of Iraq;

f. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
the George W. Bush Administration, have harmed the safety, credibility, and
financial well-being of the United States by agitating publicly and
vociferously for a military attack on Iraq, using the terrorist attacks of
9/11/2001 as a pretext, despite the fact that they have presented no
credible evidence to the American public or the world that a connection
exists between those attacks and Iraq, and despite the fact that launching
such an attack without proper evidence and without the support of a
significant number of allied countries puts the United States and its
citizens at tremendous risk, both by exacerbating the already inflamed
anti-Americanism now found throughout the world, and by ignoring the
potentially devastating economic effects of a flight from the US of foreign
capital at a time when the country's manufacturing is spread throughout the
globe, and when its current trade deficit is $2.5 trillion, i.e., 25% of the
GDP.


These charges, ample evidence of which can be found in the public record,
demonstrate a pattern of treasonous behavior, by which the Republican Party
has repeatedly put the safety, credibility and well-being of the United
States and its citizens at risk for the purpose of partisan political gain.

The Congress of the United States owes a duty to the American people to
aggressively investigate these charges, using all its legal authority and
all available sources of information. And should it find the accused guilty,
it owes a duty to the American people to mete out such justice as is
required by law.

mc

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

You can add to this another Republican crime. This is another hoodwink from
the party that is leaving a lasting mark on the confidence of the american
people...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110902155.html


On 11/9/08, Mike Church wrote:
>
> http://www.nogw.com/warcrimes.html
>
> http://www.democraticunderground.com...7_treason.html
>
> TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 118 > § 2441
>
> § 2441. War crimes
>
> (a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits
> a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall
> be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or
> both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the
> penalty of death.
> (b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are
> that
> the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a
> member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United
> States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act)..
> (c) Definition.— As used in this section the term "war crime" means any
> conduct—
> (1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions
> signed
> at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the
> United States is a party;
> (2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague
> Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18
> October 1907;
> (3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international
> conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such
> convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with
> non-international armed conflict; or
> (4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the
> provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of
> Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996
> (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party
> to
> such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.
>
>
> The Republican Party - the Case for Treason
> September 17, 2002
> By Anonymous
>
> I hereby accuse the Republican Party of committing repeated acts of High
> Treason against the United States. I submit the following list of charges,
> and respectfully demand that the Congress investigate them fully, in an
> open
> and public way, and take appropriate action if the investigation concludes
> that the accused are guilty:
>
> Charge 1: That during the presidential campaign of 1968, members of the
> Republican Party, not then in office, did harm the safety and credibility
> of
> the United States, and did bring about the death of thousands of US
> military
> personnel, by making secret contact with and negotiating with an enemy of
> the United States, the government of North Vietnam, in an attempt to induce
> that foreign government to postpone peace negotiations with the rightful
> government of the United States, and thereby prolong the war, for the
> purpose of gaining political advantage from the failure of those talks.
>
> Charge 2: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
> to, members of the Richard Nixon Administration, did abuse the power of
> their office and put the safety and credibility of the United States in
> jeopardy, in order to aid the interests of private political donors. To
> wit,
> that members of the Republican Party, as members of the Nixon
> Administration, interfered in the affairs of a sovereign nation, Chile, and
> did actively and illegally promote and participate in a coup d'etat in that
> country--including acts of murder--avowedly for the purpose of protecting
> the United States from the presumed threat of a Socialist government in
> Chile, but actually to protect the financial interests of several large
> corporate donors to the Republican Party who did business in that country..
>
> Charge 3: That members of the Republican Party, including members of the
> administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, harmed the safety
> and credibility of the United States by conducting an arms deal with the
> nation of Iran in direct violation of US law, then obstructed justice and
> lied to the Congress to cover for it, and subsequently abused their power
> of
> office by pardoning themselves to avoid criminal penalty.
>
> Charge 4: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
> to
> members of the Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush Administrations, put the
> safety and credibility of the United States at risk by spending US treasure
> to provide military equipment and training to the nation of Iraq--a nation
> which the current Administration now claims presents a clear and present
> danger to the United States--despite the knowledge that the government of
> Iraq was a threat to peace, and had committed atrocities against its own
> people and against others, and despite the certainty that this military
> funding would undermine the moral authority of the United States to act in
> self defense against Iraq in the eyes of the rest of the world.
>
> Charge 5. That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
> to
> members of Congress, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States
> by diverting its treasure and attention to a partisan political pursuit of
> President William Clinton--which pursuit included:
>
> a. the planting of a Republican party spy in the White House;
> b. the misuse of the FBI and the Department of Justice for partisan
> political gain;
> c. the bullying of witnesses known to be innocent;
> d. the denying of counsel to witnesses;
> e. the intentional leaking of erroneous information to the press;
> f. the setting of a "perjury trap" for the President of the United States..
>
> Further, I charge that this self-serving partisan attack divided and
> diverted the attention of the United States at a time that terrorist
> enemies
> were plotting against the nation. Indeed, when in 1998 President Clinton
> attempted to strike at a terrorist base in Sudan, the Republican Party
> openly mocked and attempted to undermine the credibility of the effort,
> doing so purely for the purposes of further partisan political gain.
>
> Charge 6: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
> to, members of the Administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and
> George W. Bush, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States by
> causing papers and documents related to their activities conducted in the
> name of the public to be removed from public view and access, for the
> avowed
> purpose of protecting the nation, but actually for the purpose of hiding
> from the public activities which, if revealed, would be politically
> damaging
> to themselves. The various acts of this nature by members of the Republican
> Party are in violation of both the letter and the spirit of the laws which
> require and demand transparency in our government, and without which
> freedom
> and democracy cannot survive.
>
> Charge 7: That members of the Republican Party, acting as agents of The
> Halliburton Company, harmed the safety and credibility of the United States
> by covertly conducting business with the nation of Iraq, in direct
> violation
> of US law, and in doing so provided Iraq with the means to purchase the
> weapons of mass destruction with which it now threatens the United States
> and its citizens around the world.
>
> Charge 8: That members of the Republican Party, including but not limited
> to
> members of the George W. Bush Administration, did harm the safety,
> credibility, and financial well-being of the United States, by
> misrepresenting or obscuring the actions of their Administration and other
> government agencies before, during, and after the terrorist attacks of
> 9/11/2001, for the purpose of protecting themselves from political damage..
> Specifically, that:
>
> a. members of the Republican party, as members of the Bush Administration,
> damaged the reputation of the Presidency of the United States by
> propagating
> a false story that the White House was a terrorist target on 9/11/2001;
>
> b. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
> the George W. Bush Administration, have failed to give the public a full
> and
> open accounting of the security and intelligence failures that allowed the
> terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001 to succeed in killing thousands of
> Americans;
>
>
> c. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
> the George W. Bush Administration, have so far held no individual or agency
> responsible for those gross failures, despite voluminous evidence that
> individuals and agencies responsible should have recognized that the
> attacks
> were coming;
>
> d. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
> the George W. Bush Administration, have attempted to thwart a thorough
> investigation into those gross failures, going as far as instigating an FBI
> probe to find who in the government "leaked" details of the failures to the
> press, without which leaks the public would have little knowledge of the
> failures;
>
> e. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
> the George W. Bush Administration, have harmed the safety and credibility
> of
> the United States by using the terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001 as a pretext
> to further their pre-existing political agenda, ignoring or misrepresenting
> the nature, causes, and sources of the attacks in order to lend support to
> their partisan arguments in favor of:
>
> 1. drilling for oil in ANWR;
> 2. continuing to fund a National Missile Defense Program;
> 3. invading the nation of Iraq;
>
> f. members of the Republican Party, including but not limited to members of
> the George W. Bush Administration, have harmed the safety, credibility, and
> financial well-being of the United States by agitating publicly and
> vociferously for a military attack on Iraq, using the terrorist attacks of
> 9/11/2001 as a pretext, despite the fact that they have presented no
> credible evidence to the American public or the world that a connection
> exists between those attacks and Iraq, and despite the fact that launching
> such an attack without proper evidence and without the support of a
> significant number of allied countries puts the United States and its
> citizens at tremendous risk, both by exacerbating the already inflamed
> anti-Americanism now found throughout the world, and by ignoring the
> potentially devastating economic effects of a flight from the US of foreign
> capital at a time when the country's manufacturing is spread throughout the
> globe, and when its current trade deficit is $2.5 trillion, i.e., 25% of
> the
> GDP.
>
>
> These charges, ample evidence of which can be found in the public record,
> demonstrate a pattern of treasonous behavior, by which the Republican Party
> has repeatedly put the safety, credibility and well-being of the United
> States and its citizens at risk for the purpose of partisan political gain.
>
> The Congress of the United States owes a duty to the American people to
> aggressively investigate these charges, using all its legal authority and
> all available sources of information. And should it find the accused
> guilty,
> it owes a duty to the American people to mete out such justice as is
> required by law.
>
> mc
>
> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

--- On Mon, 11/10/08, joseph dolliver wrote:

You can add to this another Republican crime. This is another hoodwink from
the party that is leaving a lasting mark on the confidence of the american
people...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110902155.html

************************************************** ********
Joe,

What this proves is, "If you give each Senator a billion dollars, they willvote for anything".

You forget, this bailout was a bipartisan measure.

I have learned, when I hear bipartisan, I instinctively grab my wallet.

As I said before, politics is just a more advanced form of organized crime.

James pointed out how people rationalize their opinions.* Today, congresshas the lowest approval rating in history, and yet, the incumbents usuallywin by an overwhelming margin.

Here's a good idea for a law, "If a public official is found guilty of fraud, they would be required to:* 1) give up their pension... and 2) no longer be eligible for any public office."

Of course the odds of getting that law passed is about 0 to none.

-Craig

Fire. Them. All.



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