Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file? - Hewlett Packard ; Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under OpenVMS. I definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS. Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near impossible to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have been able ...

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Thread: Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

  1. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under OpenVMS. I definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.

    Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near impossible to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
    been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like booting the machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.

    The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be edited. A listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in Single user mode, gives me this:

    :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    ********************
    FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM : 216.110.21.130
    #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0 FNUM: 9
    LOCKS: none
    #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14 FNUM: 13
    LOCKS: none
    ....
    ....
    .... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
    ....
    ....
    With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each user, and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP services like a telnet server.

    I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl" - some kind of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.

    I did not initially understand that there was something - eh - "odd" about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
    a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.


    -Paul

    >
    >
    >On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler" wrote:
    >>Hi Paul,
    >>Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >>
    >>There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8 characters per
    >>part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8
    >>
    >>If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    >>
    >>1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of that file
    >> as a security check)
    >>
    >>2) :editor (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is MPE's vi...
    >> free and on every system)
    >>
    >> edit to your heart's content
    >>
    >>3) k
    >>
    >> or
    >>
    >> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    >>
    >>The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want sequence numbers
    >>in columns 73..80!).
    >>
    >>Hope that helps,
    >>
    >>Stan
    >>
    >>--
    >>Stan Sieler
    >>sieler@allegro.com
    >>www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  2. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    To me, that says that it is associated to someone's catalog.

    Look up showcatalog and setcatalog to remove the association.

    Gordon

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Paul Raulerson"
    To:
    Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:27 PM
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?


    > Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under OpenVMS. I definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
    >
    > Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near impossible to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
    > been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like

    booting the machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
    >
    > The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be edited. A listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in

    Single user mode, gives me this:
    >
    > :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    > ********************
    > FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    > 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    > #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM : 216.110.21.130
    > #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    > ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0 FNUM: 9
    > LOCKS: none
    > #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    > ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14 FNUM: 13
    > LOCKS: none
    > ...
    > ...
    > ... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
    > ...
    > ...
    > With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each user, and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP

    services like a telnet server.
    >
    > I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl" - some kind of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.
    >
    > I did not initially understand that there was something - eh - "odd" about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
    > a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.
    >
    >
    > -Paul
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler" wrote:
    > >>Hi Paul,
    > >>Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    > >>
    > >>There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8 characters per
    > >>part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8
    > >>
    > >>If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    > >>
    > >>1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of that file
    > >> as a security check)
    > >>
    > >>2) :editor (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is MPE's vi...
    > >> free and on every system)
    > >>
    > >> edit to your heart's content
    > >>
    > >>3) k
    > >>
    > >> or
    > >>
    > >> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    > >>
    > >>The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want sequence numbers
    > >>in columns 73..80!).
    > >>
    > >>Hope that helps,
    > >>
    > >>Stan
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>Stan Sieler
    > >>sieler@allegro.com
    > >>www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    > >

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  3. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Paul,

    This is a guess, but when you are logged on as manager.sys
    do a

    :SHOWCATALOG

    -Craig



    --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Paul Raulerson wrote:

    > From: Paul Raulerson
    > Subject: Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 4:27 PM
    > Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file
    > under OpenVMS. I definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
    >
    > Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is
    > near impossible to get it *unlocked* - at least my any
    > method I have
    > been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I
    > sure don't know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can
    > think of, like booting the machine into Single User mode,
    > setting the automatic login to MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
    >
    >
    > The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to
    > be edited. A listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the
    > system in Single user mode, gives me this:
    >
    > :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    > ********************
    > FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    > 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    > #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM
    > : 216.110.21.130
    > #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    > ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0
    > FNUM: 9
    > LOCKS: none
    > #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    > ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14
    > FNUM: 13
    > LOCKS: none
    > ...
    > ...
    > ... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user
    > mode ]
    > ...
    > ...
    > With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these
    > for each user, and one for the JINETD streamed job that
    > supplies TCP/IP services like a telnet server.
    >
    > I *think* the problem may have something with the
    > "R-excl" - some kind of exclusive lock on the
    > file. Not at all sure.
    >
    > I did not initially understand that there was something -
    > eh - "odd" about the way this little system was
    > behaving. It looks like
    > a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple
    > answer.
    >
    >
    > -Paul
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan

    > Sieler" wrote:
    > >>Hi Paul,
    > >>Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the

    > SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    > >>
    > >>There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are

    > limited to 8 characters per
    > >>part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than

    > 8
    > >>
    > >>If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    > >>
    > >>1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks

    > the creator of that file
    > >> as a security check)
    > >>
    > >>2) :editor (or whatever editor you

    > prefer....but EDITOR is MPE's vi...
    > >> free and on every system)
    > >>
    > >> edit to your heart's content
    > >>
    > >>3) k
    > >>
    > >> or
    > >>
    > >> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    > >>
    > >>The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered

    > (you don't want sequence numbers
    > >>in columns 73..80!).
    > >>
    > >>Hope that helps,
    > >>
    > >>Stan
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>Stan Sieler
    > >>sieler@allegro.com
    > >>www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    > >

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list
    > settings, *
    > * etc., please visit
    > http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  4. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Paul,

    maybe the SYSSTART file has been registered as a UDC by means
    of the SETCATALOG command and is thus accessed as soon as you
    logon sessions.

    Check SHOWCATALOG USER=MANAGER.SYS to see if the file has been
    set as a UDC at the user, account or system level. You may use
    the SETCATALOG command then to change this. Existing sessions
    would need to re-logon to "release" the file access afterwards.

    Another possible approach might be "renaming" the accessed file
    by using the Posix mv command... and then keep your new version
    in its place...

    :xeq /bin/mv "/SYS/PUB/SYSSTART /SYS/PUB/OLDSTART"

    Lars.

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  5. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Is the file in FPROTECT? If so, edit FPROTECT, remove it and reboot.

    Mark Ranft
    (612) 804-2774
    mark@pro3k.com

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    Of Lars Appel
    Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:13 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Paul,

    maybe the SYSSTART file has been registered as a UDC by means
    of the SETCATALOG command and is thus accessed as soon as you
    logon sessions.

    Check SHOWCATALOG USER=MANAGER.SYS to see if the file has been
    set as a UDC at the user, account or system level. You may use
    the SETCATALOG command then to change this. Existing sessions
    would need to re-logon to "release" the file access afterwards.

    Another possible approach might be "renaming" the accessed file
    by using the Posix mv command... and then keep your new version
    in its place...

    :xeq /bin/mv "/SYS/PUB/SYSSTART /SYS/PUB/OLDSTART"

    Lars.

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  6. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Correction. If it is in FPROTECT, FPROTECT itself will be protected. Let
    us know and we will tell you how to get around this.

    Mark Ranft
    (612) 804-2774
    mark@pro3k.com

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  7. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    Thanks Donna - you and some other folks pointed out the issue for me,
    in simple enough terms even for a hardhead like me to understand.
    (Thanks also Stan, Jim, Gordon, Matthew, Craig, Lars, and a few
    others...) I have saved all your helpful answers in my HP3K notebook!

    The answer of course, was that someone had gotten clever (I am
    innocent of that! and made the file a "UDC", which I now
    understand is somewhat more than a Unix script file.

    Using the Unix utils (i.e rm! ) got rid of the nusiance file, and the
    instructions from several others of you on how to zap it out of the
    catalog worked the trick. I IPLed the system and it came up without
    any hassle, and I can now edit that little file to me hearts content.

    Again, I really appreciate the help Donna (and the rest of you!). I
    sure am glad you don't mind these rather basic level questions.
    I'll surely return the favors anytime I can.

    Yours,
    -Paul


    On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:53 PM, donna hofmeister wrote:

    > sysstart should ONLY be access when the system is booting. it
    > should not be
    > busy/in-use during normal day-to-day activities.
    >
    > first things first....
    >
    > check the file with listfile,-3:
    >
    > : listfile sysstart,-3
    > ********************
    > FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    >
    > FILE CODE : 0 FOPTIONS: ASCII,FIXED,NOCCTL,STD
    > BLK FACTOR: 12 CREATOR : MANAGER.SYS
    > REC SIZE: 72(BYTES) LOCKWORD:
    > BLK SIZE: 864(BYTES) SECURITY--READ : CR
    > EXT SIZE: 8(SECT) WRITE : CR
    > NUM REC: 12 APPEND : CR
    > NUM SEC: 16 LOCK : CR
    > NUM EXT: 1 EXECUTE : CR
    > MAX REC: 12 **SECURITY IS ON
    > MAX EXT: 1 FLAGS : NO ACCESSORS
    > NUM LABELS: 0 CREATED : WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
    > MAX LABELS: 0 MODIFIED: WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
    > DISC DEV #: 1 ACCESSED: MON, OCT 6, 2008, 2:30 PM
    > SEC OFFSET: 0 LABEL ADDR: $00000013.$0068E220
    > VOLCLASS : MPEXL_SYSTEM_VOLUME_SETISC
    >
    > creator is manager.sys
    > ownership is cr
    > security is on
    > disc dev is 1
    >
    > given what you're describing...i suspect that this file has been
    > some how
    > cataloged.
    >
    > type: showcatalog;user=manager.sys
    >
    > and send us the results. - d
    >
    > ---
    > Donna Hofmeister
    > Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    > 408-252-2330
    >
    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >> Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
    >> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:27 PM
    >> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >>
    >> Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under OpenVMS. I
    >> definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
    >>
    >> Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near
    >> impossible
    >> to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
    >> been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't
    >> know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like booting
    >> the
    >> machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to
    >> MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
    >>
    >> The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be
    >> edited. A
    >> listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in Single user
    >> mode,
    >> gives me this:
    >>
    >> :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    >> ********************
    >> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    >> 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    >> #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM :
    >> 216.110.21.130
    >> #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    >> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0 FNUM: 9
    >> LOCKS: none
    >> #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    >> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14 FNUM: 13
    >> LOCKS: none
    >> ...
    >> ...
    >> ... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
    >> ...
    >> ...
    >> With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each
    >> user,
    >> and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP services
    >> like
    >> a telnet server.
    >>
    >> I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl" - some
    >> kind
    >> of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.
    >>
    >> I did not initially understand that there was something - eh - "odd"
    >> about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
    >> a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.
    >>
    >>
    >> -Paul
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler"

    >> wrote:
    >>>> Hi Paul,
    >>>> Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS

    >> file?
    >>>>
    >>>> There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8
    >>>> characters

    >> per
    >>>> part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    >>>>
    >>>> 1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of

    >> that file
    >>>> as a security check)
    >>>>
    >>>> 2) :editor (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is

    >> MPE's vi...
    >>>> free and on every system)
    >>>>
    >>>> edit to your heart's content
    >>>>
    >>>> 3) k
    >>>>
    >>>> or
    >>>>
    >>>> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    >>>>
    >>>> The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want sequence

    >> numbers
    >>>> in columns 73..80!).
    >>>>
    >>>> Hope that helps,
    >>>>
    >>>> Stan
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Stan Sieler
    >>>> sieler@allegro.com
    >>>> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  8. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    udc's -- user defined commands -- have been around since nearly the dawn of
    time ;-)

    in the old (mpe v (5)) days they were (about?) the only way to write a
    'script'...and calling a udc a script is probably a stretch. I guess you
    could think of a udc more like an on-line job or simply a collection of
    commands/programs to run.

    with new mpe came true ci scripting and a whole host of specialized
    functions that makes mpe scripting a real pleasure. (thank you, jeff!)

    ido (in donna's opinion (hehehe)) there's only two reasons now to use a udc
    -- when you need something to happen a login time ('option logon' will be
    the 2nd line in the udc) and if you need to 'commandeer' an existing mpe
    command (like listf or purge...or my personal fav -- shutdown). continuing
    with donna's opinion....if I *have* to write a udc I'll bail out of the udc
    by the 3rd line -- which will be an 'xeq' of a ci script.

    as paul has discovered try to change a udc which is in use is a pain.
    scripts are our friend.

    ....and sysstart is it's own animal ;-) - d

    ---
    Donna Hofmeister
    Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    408-252-2330

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
    > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:24 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >
    > Thanks Donna - you and some other folks pointed out the issue for me,
    > in simple enough terms even for a hardhead like me to understand.
    > (Thanks also Stan, Jim, Gordon, Matthew, Craig, Lars, and a few
    > others...) I have saved all your helpful answers in my HP3K notebook!
    >
    > The answer of course, was that someone had gotten clever (I am
    > innocent of that! and made the file a "UDC", which I now
    > understand is somewhat more than a Unix script file.
    >
    > Using the Unix utils (i.e rm! ) got rid of the nusiance file, and the
    > instructions from several others of you on how to zap it out of the
    > catalog worked the trick. I IPLed the system and it came up without
    > any hassle, and I can now edit that little file to me hearts content.
    >
    > Again, I really appreciate the help Donna (and the rest of you!). I
    > sure am glad you don't mind these rather basic level questions.
    > I'll surely return the favors anytime I can.
    >
    > Yours,
    > -Paul
    >
    >
    > On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:53 PM, donna hofmeister wrote:
    >
    > > sysstart should ONLY be access when the system is booting. it
    > > should not be
    > > busy/in-use during normal day-to-day activities.
    > >
    > > first things first....
    > >
    > > check the file with listfile,-3:
    > >
    > > : listfile sysstart,-3
    > > ********************
    > > FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    > >
    > > FILE CODE : 0 FOPTIONS: ASCII,FIXED,NOCCTL,STD
    > > BLK FACTOR: 12 CREATOR : MANAGER.SYS
    > > REC SIZE: 72(BYTES) LOCKWORD:
    > > BLK SIZE: 864(BYTES) SECURITY--READ : CR
    > > EXT SIZE: 8(SECT) WRITE : CR
    > > NUM REC: 12 APPEND : CR
    > > NUM SEC: 16 LOCK : CR
    > > NUM EXT: 1 EXECUTE : CR
    > > MAX REC: 12 **SECURITY IS ON
    > > MAX EXT: 1 FLAGS : NO ACCESSORS
    > > NUM LABELS: 0 CREATED : WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
    > > MAX LABELS: 0 MODIFIED: WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
    > > DISC DEV #: 1 ACCESSED: MON, OCT 6, 2008, 2:30 PM
    > > SEC OFFSET: 0 LABEL ADDR: $00000013.$0068E220
    > > VOLCLASS : MPEXL_SYSTEM_VOLUME_SETISC
    > >
    > > creator is manager.sys
    > > ownership is cr
    > > security is on
    > > disc dev is 1
    > >
    > > given what you're describing...i suspect that this file has been
    > > some how
    > > cataloged.
    > >
    > > type: showcatalog;user=manager.sys
    > >
    > > and send us the results. - d
    > >
    > > ---
    > > Donna Hofmeister
    > > Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    > > 408-252-2330
    > >
    > >
    > >> -----Original Message-----
    > >> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > >> Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
    > >> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:27 PM
    > >> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > >> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    > >>
    > >> Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under OpenVMS. I
    > >> definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
    > >>
    > >> Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near
    > >> impossible
    > >> to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
    > >> been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't
    > >> know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like booting
    > >> the
    > >> machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to
    > >> MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
    > >>
    > >> The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be
    > >> edited. A
    > >> listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in Single user
    > >> mode,
    > >> gives me this:
    > >>
    > >> :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    > >> ********************
    > >> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    > >> 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    > >> #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM :
    > >> 216.110.21.130
    > >> #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    > >> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0 FNUM: 9
    > >> LOCKS: none
    > >> #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    > >> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14 FNUM: 13
    > >> LOCKS: none
    > >> ...
    > >> ...
    > >> ... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
    > >> ...
    > >> ...
    > >> With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each
    > >> user,
    > >> and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP services
    > >> like
    > >> a telnet server.
    > >>
    > >> I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl" - some
    > >> kind
    > >> of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.
    > >>
    > >> I did not initially understand that there was something - eh -

    > "odd"
    > >> about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
    > >> a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> -Paul
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler"
    > >> wrote:
    > >>>> Hi Paul,
    > >>>> Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS
    > >> file?
    > >>>>
    > >>>> There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8
    > >>>> characters
    > >> per
    > >>>> part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8
    > >>>>
    > >>>> If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    > >>>>
    > >>>> 1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of
    > >> that file
    > >>>> as a security check)
    > >>>>
    > >>>> 2) :editor (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is
    > >> MPE's vi...
    > >>>> free and on every system)
    > >>>>
    > >>>> edit to your heart's content
    > >>>>
    > >>>> 3) k
    > >>>>
    > >>>> or
    > >>>>
    > >>>> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    > >>>>
    > >>>> The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want sequence
    > >> numbers
    > >>>> in columns 73..80!).
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Hope that helps,
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Stan
    > >>>>
    > >>>> --
    > >>>> Stan Sieler
    > >>>> sieler@allegro.com
    > >>>> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    > >
    > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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  9. Reflections modem problem on Compaq Presario

    Hello,

    I have a new Compaq Presario V6700 which came with a Motrola SM56 Data Fax Modem.
    When I try to connect to an HP3000 via dial-up, using HP Reflections, the connection occurs,
    but then only either no data whatsoever, or garbage (instead of the colon prompt).

    I have checked all the settings vs. an old PC whose modem always worked fine, and could
    find no differences whatsoever. Does anybody have a recently purchased Presio with this
    modem driver installed, working? Or can you direct me to a resource?

    Thanks in advance,
    John Hohn
    Comp Three
    831-227-3328
    408-513-1000

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  10. Changing UDCs when in use

    In message <005201c928c0$d6917aa0$83b46fe0$@com>, donna hofmeister
    writes
    >udc's -- user defined commands -- have been around since nearly the dawn of
    >time ;-)
    >
    >in the old (mpe v (5)) days they were (about?) the only way to write a
    >'script'...and calling a udc a script is probably a stretch. I guess you
    >could think of a udc more like an on-line job or simply a collection of
    >commands/programs to run.
    >
    >with new mpe came true ci scripting and a whole host of specialized
    >functions that makes mpe scripting a real pleasure. (thank you, jeff!)
    >
    >ido (in donna's opinion (hehehe)) there's only two reasons now to use a udc
    >-- when you need something to happen a login time ('option logon' will be
    >the 2nd line in the udc) and if you need to 'commandeer' an existing mpe
    >command (like listf or purge...or my personal fav -- shutdown). continuing
    >with donna's opinion....if I *have* to write a udc I'll bail out of the udc
    >by the 3rd line -- which will be an 'xeq' of a ci script.
    >
    >as paul has discovered try to change a udc which is in use is a pain.
    >scripts are our friend.
    >
    >...and sysstart is its own animal ;-) - d


    Although the behaviour is undocumented, MPE's PURGELINK actually behaves
    like the posix rm, and will remove a file that is in use by appearing to
    PURGE it, but leaving the unlinked copy there for the existing Readers
    and Writers, until the last Reader exits it.

    Of course, if you do this on a file that has Writers, they will be
    disappointed when it vanishes; but if you do it for a file that has only
    Readers, it works very nicely.

    You can use it to dynamically replace running programs, and even XLs,
    without having to shut down all users of the application, or wait until
    they all log off (I'd have said 'go home for the night', but this is not
    alas always the same thing :-) ).

    And IIRC (though like you, I now never use a UDC if a CMD file will
    do[1]), you can PURGELINK a UDC file and roll in a new one, in the same
    way:

    QUAD
    T MYUDC
    (do stuff)
    K MYUDC1
    E
    PURGELINK MYUDC
    RENAME MYUDC1,MYUDC


    [1] I can think of maybe a couple of other corner cases where UDCs win
    out;

    (i) you can make the same command do different things for different
    groups of users by having a local catalog for each grouping. With a CMD
    file, you can get the same effect, but you have to test each user name
    individually.

    (ii) A UDC file is a set of UDCs, so you can pass a whole collection of
    UDCs around in one file. With CMD files, you need to enumerate them.

    OTOH, some circumstances would make this aspect a *dis*advantage of
    UDCs, and the greater granularity of CMD files a superiority.


    Of course, if you *do* use UDCs, and you've ever typed SETCATALOG when
    you meant SHOWCATALOG, you might think this would be a good command to
    commandeer as well :-)
    --
    Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
    Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  11. Re: Reflections modem problem on Compaq Presario

    The SM56 is a 'software modem'.
    If you have MS Vista installed, there may be no driver
    available. Other than that, it might be informative to
    turn on 'Show Control Codes' (Setup/View Settings) in
    Reflection.

    There's a user's guide that may help you debug this at
    http://downloadmirror.intel.com/12655/ENG/Motorola.htm
    and a release note for that modem at
    http://driveragent.com/archive/12364/2-0-1

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  12. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    LOL! That's a pretty darn good explanation - like running a batch job
    in the foreground, eh? Kinda cool. )
    This little machine continues to amaze me, it is is definitely a time
    sink!

    -Paul

    On Oct 7, 2008, at 4:08 PM, donna hofmeister wrote:

    > udc's -- user defined commands -- have been around since nearly the
    > dawn of
    > time ;-)
    >
    > in the old (mpe v (5)) days they were (about?) the only way to write a
    > 'script'...and calling a udc a script is probably a stretch. I
    > guess you
    > could think of a udc more like an on-line job or simply a collection
    > of
    > commands/programs to run.
    >
    > with new mpe came true ci scripting and a whole host of specialized
    > functions that makes mpe scripting a real pleasure. (thank you, jeff!)
    >
    > ido (in donna's opinion (hehehe)) there's only two reasons now to
    > use a udc
    > -- when you need something to happen a login time ('option logon'
    > will be
    > the 2nd line in the udc) and if you need to 'commandeer' an existing
    > mpe
    > command (like listf or purge...or my personal fav -- shutdown).
    > continuing
    > with donna's opinion....if I *have* to write a udc I'll bail out of
    > the udc
    > by the 3rd line -- which will be an 'xeq' of a ci script.
    >
    > as paul has discovered try to change a udc which is in use is a pain.
    > scripts are our friend.
    >
    > ...and sysstart is it's own animal ;-) - d
    >
    > ---
    > Donna Hofmeister
    > Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    > 408-252-2330
    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >> Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
    >> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:24 PM
    >> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >>
    >> Thanks Donna - you and some other folks pointed out the issue for me,
    >> in simple enough terms even for a hardhead like me to understand.
    >> (Thanks also Stan, Jim, Gordon, Matthew, Craig, Lars, and a few
    >> others...) I have saved all your helpful answers in my HP3K notebook!
    >>
    >> The answer of course, was that someone had gotten clever (I am
    >> innocent of that! and made the file a "UDC", which I now
    >> understand is somewhat more than a Unix script file.
    >>
    >> Using the Unix utils (i.e rm! ) got rid of the nusiance file, and the
    >> instructions from several others of you on how to zap it out of the
    >> catalog worked the trick. I IPLed the system and it came up without
    >> any hassle, and I can now edit that little file to me hearts content.
    >>
    >> Again, I really appreciate the help Donna (and the rest of you!). I
    >> sure am glad you don't mind these rather basic level questions.
    >> I'll surely return the favors anytime I can.
    >>
    >> Yours,
    >> -Paul
    >>
    >>
    >> On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:53 PM, donna hofmeister wrote:
    >>
    >>> sysstart should ONLY be access when the system is booting. it
    >>> should not be
    >>> busy/in-use during normal day-to-day activities.
    >>>
    >>> first things first....
    >>>
    >>> check the file with listfile,-3:
    >>>
    >>> : listfile sysstart,-3
    >>> ********************
    >>> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    >>>
    >>> FILE CODE : 0 FOPTIONS: ASCII,FIXED,NOCCTL,STD
    >>> BLK FACTOR: 12 CREATOR : MANAGER.SYS
    >>> REC SIZE: 72(BYTES) LOCKWORD:
    >>> BLK SIZE: 864(BYTES) SECURITY--READ : CR
    >>> EXT SIZE: 8(SECT) WRITE : CR
    >>> NUM REC: 12 APPEND : CR
    >>> NUM SEC: 16 LOCK : CR
    >>> NUM EXT: 1 EXECUTE : CR
    >>> MAX REC: 12 **SECURITY IS ON
    >>> MAX EXT: 1 FLAGS : NO ACCESSORS
    >>> NUM LABELS: 0 CREATED : WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52
    >>> PM
    >>> MAX LABELS: 0 MODIFIED: WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52
    >>> PM
    >>> DISC DEV #: 1 ACCESSED: MON, OCT 6, 2008, 2:30
    >>> PM
    >>> SEC OFFSET: 0 LABEL ADDR: $00000013.$0068E220
    >>> VOLCLASS : MPEXL_SYSTEM_VOLUME_SETISC
    >>>
    >>> creator is manager.sys
    >>> ownership is cr
    >>> security is on
    >>> disc dev is 1
    >>>
    >>> given what you're describing...i suspect that this file has been
    >>> some how
    >>> cataloged.
    >>>
    >>> type: showcatalog;user=manager.sys
    >>>
    >>> and send us the results. - d
    >>>
    >>> ---
    >>> Donna Hofmeister
    >>> Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    >>> 408-252-2330
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> -----Original Message-----
    >>>> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >>>> Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
    >>>> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:27 PM
    >>>> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >>>> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes sysstartup_vms.com is the startup file under
    >>>> OpenVMS. I
    >>>> definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
    >>>>
    >>>> Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near
    >>>> impossible
    >>>> to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
    >>>> been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't
    >>>> know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like booting
    >>>> the
    >>>> machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to
    >>>> MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be
    >>>> edited. A
    >>>> listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in Single user
    >>>> mode,
    >>>> gives me this:
    >>>>
    >>>> :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
    >>>> ********************
    >>>> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
    >>>> 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
    >>>> #S7 MANAGER.SYS P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2 REM :
    >>>> 216.110.21.130
    >>>> #P22 (CI.PUB.SYS)
    >>>> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 0 FNUM: 9
    >>>> LOCKS: none
    >>>> #P48 (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
    >>>> ACCESS: R-excl REC#: 14 FNUM: 13
    >>>> LOCKS: none
    >>>> ...
    >>>> ...
    >>>> ... [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
    >>>> ...
    >>>> ...
    >>>> With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each
    >>>> user,
    >>>> and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP services
    >>>> like
    >>>> a telnet server.
    >>>>
    >>>> I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl" - some
    >>>> kind
    >>>> of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.
    >>>>
    >>>> I did not initially understand that there was something - eh -

    >> "odd"
    >>>> about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
    >>>> a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> -Paul
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler"
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>>> Hi Paul,
    >>>>>> Subject: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS
    >>>> file?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8
    >>>>>> characters
    >>>> per
    >>>>>> part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of
    >>>> that file
    >>>>>> as a security check)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 2) :editor (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is
    >>>> MPE's vi...
    >>>>>> free and on every system)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> edit to your heart's content
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 3) k
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> or
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> k sysstart, unn (if making a new file)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want
    >>>>>> sequence
    >>>> numbers
    >>>>>> in columns 73..80!).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Hope that helps,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Stan
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Stan Sieler
    >>>>>> sieler@allegro.com
    >>>>>> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >>>> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >>>
    >>> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >>> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  13. Re: Changing UDCs when in use

    Roy wrote:

    > I can think of maybe a couple of other corner cases where UDCs win

    out;

    [snip]

    How about:

    (iii) A UDC name can be up to 16 characters long.

    Walter

    Walter J. Murray

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  14. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    It was also a way to create a command that had more than 8 letters in
    MPE/V.

    Tracy Johnson
    Business Analyst
    Measurement Specialties, Inc.
    1000 Lucas Way
    Hampton, VA 23666
    Office 1-757-766-4318
    tracy.johnson@meas-spec.com
    www.meas-spec.com

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  15. Re: How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?

    ....and you can do the same with command/script files!

    if you have a designated location for storing general purpose scripts -- say
    ..CMD.UTIL -- then do the following modification to hppath:

    setvar hppath hppath+",.cmd.utl,/UTIL/CMD/"

    the only other thing you need to consider is -- how to construct the name of
    *long-name* scripts. if long-named scripts are in ALL CAPS then they have
    to be invoked in ALL CAPS. conversely if their names are comprised of all
    lowercase letters then they have to be run that way as well. for example,
    my.long.script.name is NOT the same as MY.LONG.SCRIPT.NAME.

    for some people/shops, doing everything in all caps is not a problem. for
    those of us who are capitailization-challenged (:-) it makes a difference.

    so what to do?

    you decide that all long-named script will be named with all capital letter.
    you *also* decide to make a LINK comprised of all lowercase letters that
    points to it's uppercase twin for every long-named script.

    but your next thought is/should be -- oh the misery of trying to keep that
    maintained... and then your next thought is/should be -- oh a script would
    solve this problem. and then you ask on 3000-l if anyone has such a
    script....and donna says 'send me a private email'. - d

    ---
    Donna Hofmeister
    Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    408-252-2330


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Johnson, Tracy
    > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:06 AM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
    >
    > It was also a way to create a command that had more than 8 letters in
    > MPE/V.
    >
    > Tracy Johnson
    > Business Analyst
    > Measurement Specialties, Inc.
    > 1000 Lucas Way
    > Hampton, VA 23666
    > Office 1-757-766-4318
    > tracy.johnson@meas-spec.com
    > www.meas-spec.com
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  16. Re: Reflections modem problem on Compaq Presario

    Many thanks to all who weighed in on this problem, both through the group and individually. I
    am posting this to thank everyone and offer a warning about buying a laptop with this
    modem, or, I suppose, others being sold now as well.

    I have tried everything everybody suggested, as well as other things on my own. These
    include reducing baud rate, turing off compression, turing of the "FIFO" buffers, changing
    flow control, etc. etc. etc. The bottom line is, at a low enough baud rate, without compression
    or FIFO buffers, without hardware flow control, and on a CLEAN ENOUGH LINE, you can get
    the thing to work, but not reliably. On typical phone lines, it's useless.

    Since I've already wasted too much time on this, my plan is to replace the modem or buy an
    external one. However, I caution everyone purchasing a new laptop who requires dial-up
    access to an HP3000 , to make sure the thing will work first.

    -John
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a new Compaq Presario V6700 which came with a Motrola SM56 Data Fax Modem.
    > When I try to connect to an HP3000 via dial-up, using HP Reflections, the connection occurs,
    > but then only either no data whatsoever, or garbage (instead of the colon prompt).
    >
    > I have checked all the settings vs. an old PC whose modem always worked fine, and could
    > find no differences whatsoever. Does anybody have a recently purchased Presio with this
    > modem driver installed, working? Or can you direct me to a resource?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    > John Hohn
    > Comp Three
    > 831-227-3328
    > 408-513-1000
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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