DTC on A500? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on DTC on A500? - Hewlett Packard ; How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that? -- ...

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Thread: DTC on A500?

  1. DTC on A500?

    How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?

    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  2. Re: DTC on A500?

    No, Mark. You can convert the DTC over to use the AUI connector (switch
    setting) and then use an AUI to 10Bt transceiver. Works fine.

    jack

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Mark Landin
    Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:16 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?

    How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?

    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people would
    have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  3. Re: DTC on A500?

    Ah I see. I bet I threw all those away!

    So the DTC gets hooked up to a switch? If so, how does the A500
    connect to it? By MAC?

    If it gets connected directly to the A500, is it via cross-over cable?
    Do I need a dedicated NIC for the connection?

    On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Jack Connor wrote:
    > No, Mark. You can convert the DTC over to use the AUI connector (switch
    > setting) and then use an AUI to 10Bt transceiver. Works fine.
    >
    > jack
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Mark Landin
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:16 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    > BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    > UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?
    >
    > --
    > "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people would
    > have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >




    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  4. Re: DTC on A500?

    If you have the slots, I'd put a 100Bt card in for VT/FTP/etc traffic
    and leave the 10/100 port on the CIO for the DTCs.

    And yes, they generally talk via MAC..you may want to put them on their
    own switch.

    Jack

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mark Landin [mailto:marklandin@gmail.com]
    Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:46 PM
    To: Jack Connor
    Cc: HP3000-L@raven.utc.edu
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?

    Ah I see. I bet I threw all those away!

    So the DTC gets hooked up to a switch? If so, how does the A500 connect
    to it? By MAC?

    If it gets connected directly to the A500, is it via cross-over cable?
    Do I need a dedicated NIC for the connection?

    On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Jack Connor
    wrote:
    > No, Mark. You can convert the DTC over to use the AUI connector
    > (switch
    > setting) and then use an AUI to 10Bt transceiver. Works fine.
    >
    > jack
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Mark Landin
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:16 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    > BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    > UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?
    >
    > --
    > "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    > would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >




    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people would
    have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  5. Re: DTC on A500?

    Thanks. We do have room for additional NIC's.

    1 - Can the DTC just plug directly into the NIC? We can do a switch
    thing if we need to, but I'd rather not have to mess with the VLAN's,
    etc.
    2 - If multiple NIC's are installed in a system, can MPE handle any
    kind of link aggregation or trunking? We were disappointed to hear
    that MPE can't support GigE. Can it support multiple 100Base-T NICs as
    a single logical NIC?

    On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Jack Connor wrote:
    > If you have the slots, I'd put a 100Bt card in for VT/FTP/etc traffic
    > and leave the 10/100 port on the CIO for the DTCs.
    >
    > And yes, they generally talk via MAC..you may want to put them on their
    > own switch.
    >
    > Jack
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Mark Landin [mailto:marklandin@gmail.com]
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:46 PM
    > To: Jack Connor
    > Cc: HP3000-L@raven.utc.edu
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > Ah I see. I bet I threw all those away!
    >
    > So the DTC gets hooked up to a switch? If so, how does the A500 connect
    > to it? By MAC?
    >
    > If it gets connected directly to the A500, is it via cross-over cable?
    > Do I need a dedicated NIC for the connection?
    >
    > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Jack Connor
    > wrote:
    >> No, Mark. You can convert the DTC over to use the AUI connector
    >> (switch
    >> setting) and then use an AUI to 10Bt transceiver. Works fine.
    >>
    >> jack
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >> Behalf Of Mark Landin
    >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:16 PM
    >> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >> Subject: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >>
    >> How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    >> BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    >> UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?
    >>
    >> --
    >> "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    >> would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland
    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people would
    > have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland
    >




    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  6. Re: DTC on A500?

    Mark Landin wrote:
    > Thanks. We do have room for additional NIC's.
    >
    > 1 - Can the DTC just plug directly into the NIC? We can do a switch
    > thing if we need to, but I'd rather not have to mess with the VLAN's,
    > etc.


    Yes, if that NIC is only doing DTC traffic.

    You'll need an AUI-to-10BaseT transceiver that supports SQE heartbeat,
    otherwise you'll have to hunt down an obscure 3000-side configuration
    option that escapes me at the moment to disable SQE error reporting.

    Configure this NIC as DTSLINK and keep your TCP/IP configuration away
    from it.

    Jeff

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  7. Re: DTC on A500?

    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Mark Landin wrote:


    How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?

    ************************************Mark,You need an AUI to ethernet tranceiver for the DTC.-Craig

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  8. Re: DTC on A500?

    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Mark Landin wrote:


    Ah I see. I bet I threw all those away!

    So the DTC gets hooked up to a switch? If so, how does the A500
    connect to it? By MAC?
    Yes, it needs to be on the same sub-net as the HP3000. I forget the protocol, but it is non-routable.*>If it gets connected directly to the A500, is it via cross-over cable?
    >Do I need a dedicated NIC for the connection?

    The HP3000 NIC is used for the communication to the DTC as well as for PC'sto connect.You don't need a seperate NIC, although some HP's are configured that way.Usually, the seperate sub-net is using the BNC connectors on theolder K-class systems.-Craig

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  9. Re: DTC on A500?

    > How does one connect a DTC to an e3000 A500? I presume there is not a
    > BNC connector on the motherboard, since there isn't one on my
    > UNIX-flavored A500. Do you have to buy an I/O card for that?


    Find an old HP Ethertwist 10MBit Hub with a BNC on it and attach it to
    one of your 100/10MBit ports on a switch.

    I have a couple on sale on eBay for 99 cents here:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-J28699A-Ether...itemZ130256468
    923

    http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-J2355A-EtherT...QitemZ13025646
    7468

    Some network geek in your area will probably complain it will degrade
    his GBit switch. Just tell him too bad.

    Tracy Johnson
    Business Analyst
    Measurement Specialties, Inc.
    1000 Lucas Way
    Hampton, VA 23666
    Office 1-757-766-4318
    tracy.johnson@meas-spec.com
    www.meas-spec.com


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  10. Re: DTC on A500?

    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Johnson, Tracy wrote:


    > Some network geek in your area will probably complain it
    > will degrade his GBit switch. Just tell him too bad.
    >

    *****************************************

    Tracy,

    Repeat after me, "Network Geeks are our friends." :-)

    The last thing you want to do is annoy your local Network Geek.

    I suggest you let him try an "alternative configuration", lest you find your nice new 1gbit port running at 10mb half duplex. :-(

    -Craig

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  11. Re: DTC on A500?

    sometime more than just a friend :-)

    and you never ever want to annoy one! it's a bit like feeding a gremlin
    after dark....

    (although it seems that feeding network geeks most anytime of the day is
    safe to do)

    isn't that right, james?

    - d

    ---
    Donna Hofmeister
    Allegro Consultants, Inc.
    408-252-2330


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Craig Lalley
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:42 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Johnson, Tracy
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Some network geek in your area will probably complain it
    > > will degrade his GBit switch. Just tell him too bad.
    > >

    > *****************************************
    >
    > Tracy,
    >
    > Repeat after me, "Network Geeks are our friends." :-)
    >
    > The last thing you want to do is annoy your local Network Geek.
    >
    > I suggest you let him try an "alternative configuration", lest you find
    > your nice new 1gbit port running at 10mb half duplex. :-(
    >
    > -Craig
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  12. Re: DTC on A500?

    Actually, no one ever told me how a hub degrades a switch. I mean,
    isn't the port smart enough to understand you've plugged a 10MBit item
    into it? Isn't that WHY the the ports on a switch dual-speed? Isn't
    that WHY ports are configurable?

    When ever I confront them with that, I get are mumbled expletives, and
    how dare I ruin their perfect port configs.

    (Methinks they're just too lazy to configure a single port differently
    than the others.)

    Tracy Johnson
    Business Analyst
    Measurement Specialties, Inc.
    1000 Lucas Way
    Hampton, VA 23666
    Office 1-757-766-4318
    tracy.johnson@meas-spec.com
    www.meas-spec.com


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
    > [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig Lalley
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:42 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Johnson, Tracy
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Some network geek in your area will probably complain it
    > > will degrade his GBit switch. Just tell him too bad.
    > >

    > *****************************************
    >
    > Tracy,
    >
    > Repeat after me, "Network Geeks are our friends." :-)
    >
    > The last thing you want to do is annoy your local Network Geek.
    >
    > I suggest you let him try an "alternative configuration",
    > lest you find your nice new 1gbit port running at 10mb half
    > duplex. :-(
    >
    > -Craig
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  13. Re: DTC on A500?

    Johnson, Tracy wrote:
    > Actually, no one ever told me how a hub degrades a switch. I mean,
    > isn't the port smart enough to understand you've plugged a 10MBit item
    > into it? Isn't that WHY the the ports on a switch dual-speed? Isn't
    > that WHY ports are configurable?
    >
    > When ever I confront them with that, I get are mumbled expletives, and
    > how dare I ruin their perfect port configs.
    >
    > (Methinks they're just too lazy to configure a single port differently
    > than the others.)


    Alright, for the sake of network nerds around the world, I can't take
    that one lying down :-)

    Hubs have two fundamental problems: they are half-duplex shared media,
    and they replicate ingress traffic on every egress port. The first
    hurts performance, the second hurts security.

    Most hubs are fixed speed, 10 or 100, and have no autonegotiation logic
    or circuitry. This is fine for hubs, but if you plug it into an
    intelligent switch that "expects" to negotiate, you run into
    autonegotiation issues (which is a separate topic that I think I've
    covered at length in the past). Typically the switch will make it's
    best guess, or least-common-denominator default.

    If it is a configurable switch, or it decides correctly, then the switch
    will setup half-duplex at the proper speed. And by "configured
    correctly" this implies that not only do you have an accomodating
    network nerd, but that you also bothered to inform him that you were
    plugging a hub into that switchport ahead of time :-)

    Now, in the best case scenario, you have a properly communicating hub,
    albeit half-duplex, and duplicating all of it's traffic on the remaining
    hub ports.

    The problem of 10/100/1000Mbps smart switch having the 10Mb hub plugged
    into it is the possibility of dropped packets as the traffic rates go up
    and the available switch buffers go down. The degree performance
    degradation depends on whether the switch buffers are allocated
    per-port, or has a globally shared buffer pool. If the latter, you'll
    potentially cause packet loss across the whole switch.

    With all that said... get the 3000 and anything related to it at
    full-duplex if humanly possible. To add a half-duplex DTC, either buy
    your network nerd lunch and ask him to setup a port specifically for it,
    or buy your own small dual-speed switch to put between the DTC and the
    real network switch to absorb the "half-duplex" issues. That will go a
    lot further than a $0.99 eBay hub.

    Jeff

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  14. Re: DTC on A500?

    All,

    Thanks for your input. I believe my plan is to hook the single DTC
    (all we need or expect to need) directly to the on-board 10/100 port,
    and add a 100Base-T card for all other LAN traffic. This seems to be
    the simplest configuration.

    Can anyone answer the question about NIC aggregation under MPE/iX 7.5?
    If it can be done, we likely will want to...

    --
    "If hard work were such a wonderful thing, you'd think rich people
    would have kept it all for themselves" - Lane Kirkland

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  15. Re: DTC on A500?

    Well, that answers the question.
    (And makes sense too.)

    That brings up another question however:

    If the only two items on the hub are #1 the link to the switch
    (configurability understood) and the other is #2 the BNC (or AUI)
    connector to the DTC. Does it "matter" if there is replication to the
    other ports you're not using?

    .... Say as a security issue in a locked computer room no one else has
    access to?

    Tracy Johnson
    Business Analyst
    Measurement Specialties, Inc.
    1000 Lucas Way
    Hampton, VA 23666
    Office 1-757-766-4318
    tracy.johnson@meas-spec.com
    www.meas-spec.com


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Jeff Kell [mailto:jeff-kell@utc.edu]
    > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:49 PM
    > To: Johnson, Tracy
    > Cc: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] DTC on A500?
    >
    > Johnson, Tracy wrote:
    > > Actually, no one ever told me how a hub degrades a switch. I mean,
    > > isn't the port smart enough to understand you've plugged a

    > 10MBit item
    > > into it? Isn't that WHY the the ports on a switch

    > dual-speed? Isn't
    > > that WHY ports are configurable?
    > >
    > > When ever I confront them with that, I get are mumbled

    > expletives, and
    > > how dare I ruin their perfect port configs.
    > >
    > > (Methinks they're just too lazy to configure a single port

    > differently
    > > than the others.)

    >
    > Alright, for the sake of network nerds around the world, I can't take
    > that one lying down :-)
    >
    > Hubs have two fundamental problems: they are half-duplex
    > shared media,
    > and they replicate ingress traffic on every egress port. The first
    > hurts performance, the second hurts security.
    >
    > Most hubs are fixed speed, 10 or 100, and have no
    > autonegotiation logic
    > or circuitry. This is fine for hubs, but if you plug it into an
    > intelligent switch that "expects" to negotiate, you run into
    > autonegotiation issues (which is a separate topic that I think I've
    > covered at length in the past). Typically the switch will make it's
    > best guess, or least-common-denominator default.
    >
    > If it is a configurable switch, or it decides correctly, then
    > the switch
    > will setup half-duplex at the proper speed. And by "configured
    > correctly" this implies that not only do you have an accomodating
    > network nerd, but that you also bothered to inform him that you were
    > plugging a hub into that switchport ahead of time :-)
    >
    > Now, in the best case scenario, you have a properly communicating hub,
    > albeit half-duplex, and duplicating all of it's traffic on
    > the remaining
    > hub ports.
    >
    > The problem of 10/100/1000Mbps smart switch having the 10Mb
    > hub plugged
    > into it is the possibility of dropped packets as the traffic
    > rates go up
    > and the available switch buffers go down. The degree performance
    > degradation depends on whether the switch buffers are allocated
    > per-port, or has a globally shared buffer pool. If the latter, you'll
    > potentially cause packet loss across the whole switch.
    >
    > With all that said... get the 3000 and anything related to it at
    > full-duplex if humanly possible. To add a half-duplex DTC, either buy
    > your network nerd lunch and ask him to setup a port
    > specifically for it,
    > or buy your own small dual-speed switch to put between the DTC and the
    > real network switch to absorb the "half-duplex" issues. That
    > will go a
    > lot further than a $0.99 eBay hub.
    >
    > Jeff
    >


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  16. Re: DTC on A500?

    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Mark Landin wrote:
    >
    > 1 - Can the DTC just plug directly into the NIC? We can do
    > a switch thing if we need to, but I'd rather not have to mess
    > with the VLAN's, etc.


    If you have an AUI-ethernet tranceiver, and an cross over cable, I am sure it would work.

    > 2 - If multiple NIC's are installed in a system, can
    > MPE handle any kind of link aggregation or trunking?


    You're kidding right? Sorry, 100MB full duplex is the best your going to get.

    Sorry, no aggregation, but you can have separate sub-nets.

    -Craig

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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  17. Re: DTC on A500?

    [guess I'm a bit late in this thread, just want to clarify that]
    the protocol (AFCP) is routable (RAFCP). It used to involve two pc:s
    (one front-end and one remote) running HPOpenViewDTCmgr, but, if I
    understand correctly, can now be configured via NMMGR (as of 7.0 or
    7.5?).
    My recommendation, however, would definitely be to *not* do that if
    you don't have pressing needs to put a DTC on another subnet/network.
    It's painful and you need to keep those network gremlins on constant
    feed ;-)

    /per


    2008/9/22 Craig Lalley :
    > --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Mark Landin wrote:
    >
    >
    > Ah I see. I bet I threw all those away!
    >
    > So the DTC gets hooked up to a switch? If so, how does the A500
    > connect to it? By MAC?
    > Yes, it needs to be on the same sub-net as the HP3000. I forget the protocol, but it is non-routable. >If it gets connected directly to the A500, is it via cross-over cable?
    >>Do I need a dedicated NIC for the connection?

    > The HP3000 NIC is used for the communication to the DTC as well as for PC's to connect.You don't need a seperate NIC, although some HP's are configured that way.Usually, the seperate sub-net is using the BNC connectors on the older K-class systems.-Craig
    >


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