Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done? - Hewlett Packard ; Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as they wear out (48GXs). One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on ...

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Thread: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

  1. Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as
    they wear out (48GXs). One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone
    and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on it.

    It looks like a perfect match, but I would have no idea where to even
    begin. I know nothing about programming on the Mac or the iPhone and
    even less about the emmulators programming.

    Has this been tried? Was there success? If so, how could I repeat
    it?

    Thanks.

  2. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    I'd rather see it on the Nokia Communicator

    "Mystif" wrote in message
    news:rcrvc41nbju48eifk2omm96gp5q00e3kef@4ax.com...
    > Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as
    > they wear out (48GXs). One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone
    > and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on it.
    >
    > It looks like a perfect match, but I would have no idea where to even
    > begin. I know nothing about programming on the Mac or the iPhone and
    > even less about the emmulators programming.
    >
    > Has this been tried? Was there success? If so, how could I repeat
    > it?
    >
    > Thanks.




  3. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Mystif schrieb:

    > Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as
    > they wear out (48GXs). One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone
    > and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on it.


    Technicaly: yes - you might port an exitsting Mac OS X version.

    Politicaly: No - there is a bann on "on device progammable" applications
    for the iPhone.

    Martin

  4. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Martin Krischik wrote:

    > Politicaly: No - there is a bann on "on device progammable" applications
    > for the iPhone.


    R.L.M. software just released a port of their 12C emulation for the iPhone;
    and the 12C is programmable. So there might be some wiggle room.

    --Sylvain

  5. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Do you really belive Mac OSX has anything to do with iPhone ?

    manjo
    P.S.
    Except for half-eatten rotten apple ?



  6. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    manjo schrieb:

    > Do you really belive Mac OSX has anything to do with iPhone ?


    Yes "Mac OS X" and "iPhone OS X" do share some common ground - for
    example the darwin kernel. Or the Objective-C programmig language.

    The iPhone and the iPod Touch both run a scaled down OS X. Just the same
    way the Google Phone runs a scaled down Linux.

    Martin

  7. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Sylvain schrieb:
    > Martin Krischik wrote:
    >
    >> Politicaly: No - there is a bann on "on device progammable" applications
    >> for the iPhone.

    >
    > R.L.M. software just released a port of their 12C emulation for the iPhone;
    > and the 12C is programmable. So there might be some wiggle room.


    Only "Calculator 12" as it is called is not programmable:

    http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...286506398&mt=8

    Just checked it up. We have recentlich changed out home PC's to Apple -
    but the iPhone is a no go - to restrictive for a "smart phone".

    Martin

  8. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Very nice in that case there might be a possibility BUT

    Do you belive also that iPhone's touchscreen iterface (finger optimized)
    would provide (to usable degree) reliable interface to work with ?

    Personally i belive it would be a pain, but i'm sure
    it would be a nice show-off feature of the otherwise show-off iPhone device.
    also i am sure they would market it as a "revolutionary" feature :-)

    Finally:
    At this time no emulator can emulate true 49G+ or 50G (from point of
    software compatibility)
    From point of user interaction emulator on any smartphone is clumsy to work
    with.

    manjo



  9. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?


    "Martin Krischik" wrote in message
    news:vv07q5-ba3.ln1@macpro-wlan.krischik.com...
    > Mystif schrieb:
    >
    >> Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as
    >> they wear out (48GXs). One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone
    >> and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on it.

    >
    > Technicaly: yes - you might port an exitsting Mac OS X version.
    >
    > Politicaly: No - there is a bann on "on device progammable" applications
    > for the iPhone.
    >
    > Martin


    You can purchase an HP41CX program that is programmable for the iphone.
    Check the app store.



  10. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    > At this time no emulator can emulate true 49G+ or 50G (from point of
    > software compatibility)


    With 10 rows of keys and the larger display the 49g+/50g may not be
    very practical.

    However, the 48GX/SX with only 9 rows of keys and smaller display
    should be doable on the iPhone.

    > From point of user interaction emulator on any smartphone is clumsy to work
    > with.


    Initially that was the case for me and my iPhone for the first week.
    But since then I have adapted. I have no problems with the 41CX
    emulator for the iPhone. Not clumsy at all.

  11. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Martin Krischik wrote:

    > Sylvain schrieb:
    >> Martin Krischik wrote:
    >>
    >>> Politicaly: No - there is a bann on "on device progammable" applications
    >>> for the iPhone.

    >>
    >> R.L.M. software just released a port of their 12C emulation for the
    >> iPhone;
    >> and the 12C is programmable. So there might be some wiggle room.

    >
    > Only "Calculator 12" as it is called is not programmable:


    This one I haven't tried; I was talking about R.L.M.'s 12C Lite which is
    indeed programmable (the difference with the full -- non free -- version
    from what I understand is the the free 'Lite' version doesn't have
    permanent memory, i.e., you lose the contents of its memory between uses)

    --Sylvain

  12. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    I just wrote:
    > I was talking about R.L.M.'s 12C Lite


    here is its URL (since there is indeed another more limited app out there):

    http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...290571540&mt=8

    --Sylvain

  13. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    On Sep 18, 8:04*am, "manjo" wrote:
    > Finally:
    > At this time no emulator can emulate true 49G+ or 50G (from point of
    > software compatibility)
    > From point of user interaction emulator on any smartphone is clumsy to work
    > with.
    >


    Why would you want two layers of emulation? A "true" emulator of the
    49g+/50g would have to emulate the ARM9, which runs code to emulate
    the Saturn. This additional layer would cause a considerable
    performance hit.

    Maybe a compromise would be to have two emulators in the same package:
    a Saturn emulator to run all of the calculator's normal functions, and
    then an ARM9 emulator to run special processor-specific code such as
    HPGCC.

    S.C.

  14. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Sylvain schrieb:
    > I just wrote:
    >> I was talking about R.L.M.'s 12C Lite

    >
    > here is its URL (since there is indeed another more limited app out there):
    >
    > http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...290571540&mt=8


    Thanks. So Apple is not all that strict on "On Device Programming". But
    still I would not buy an iPhone.


    Martin

  15. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    > Why would you want two layers of emulation? A "true" emulator of the
    > 49g+/50g would have to emulate the ARM9, which runs code to emulate
    > the Saturn. This additional layer would cause a considerable
    > performance hit.


    > Maybe a compromise would be to have two emulators in the same package:
    > a Saturn emulator to run all of the calculator's normal functions, and
    > then an ARM9 emulator to run special processor-specific code such as
    > HPGCC.


    Not really an option because:
    Satrun emulator and ARM environment interact closely and many HPGCC
    programs return results or take parameters from stack (Saturn environment)

    HP Emulator code can't run directly on host OS because of the surounding
    hardware difference
    and CPU setup, ARM execution core itself helps just a bit (opcodes are
    emulated with less navie OP's)
    If we would like to run HP emulator natively we would have to kill the host
    OS temporarily,
    reconfigure the hardware and CPU and then run EMU. Or reconfigure EMU to
    some point to be able to run
    on hardware setup specific to target platform.
    More-less it would be like writing a virtual machine which in the end is not
    much different from ARM emulator on ARM based machine -right ?

    Of course:
    it is not impossible, rather questionable if it's worth so much of work.
    I would expect graduate transition to native ARM programs wether to be
    written in C or ASM
    and Saturn emulation as you said only at Saturn layer
    (that means no true 50/49G+ emulation ever)
    The third possible path (maybe the best) would be to use native ARM
    environment to support sysRPL and userRPL entries (execute sysRPL and
    userRPL programs)

    Finally:
    we get native ARM speed and environment (no Saturn emulator) but capable of
    executing higher level RPL code (let's call this interpreter: RPL virtual
    machine)
    All RPL (user and/or system) would run on both real and emulated machines,
    only on real ARM machine it would run much faster due to the fact that ARM
    is much more powerfull than Saturn and more powerfull than emulated Satrun.
    One day...further more in the future we may see HP calculator get released
    from it's heritage (Saturn) completely. One more time: the compatibility
    would be at RPL level which could run about the speed of current Saturn
    machine language.
    Runing an emulator is a great solution while in transition but insisting on
    emulator(s) is like refusing to accept the
    new technology, new possibilities -the progress itself!

    However it may be wrong to tie it down to ARM at low level because one day
    ARM may expire like
    Saturn did.
    The virtual machine or RPL execution/intepreter is the way to go! It would
    be able to use a lot of current work, AND it could be ported to other
    platforms (programmed in any language or tool for any native platform that
    may come in the future -currently most likely in C)
    Over longer period of time HP calculator as we know it today, may become
    cross platform scientific/teching/math environment, rather than just a
    calculator.
    The point in that case would be to establish a standard of language
    optimised for math good enough for
    some general purposes, with simple rules and interpeter.

    RPL is very much like that and form how many people uses it's just the right
    thing.
    (projects like RPL/2 support my thoughts here)

    Having all this in mind...
    Saturn/ARM emulator -yes as a mental exercise, but no real future or use

    (my thoughts for next milenium i guess :-)
    manjo



  16. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    Martin Krischik wrote:


    > Thanks. So Apple is not all that strict on "On Device Programming".


    Note that while I was looking for this thing, I also found an emulation of
    the 41CX which looks pretty good (haven't had time to explore the thing
    thoroughly yet):

    http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...289068865&mt=8


    > But still I would not buy an iPhone.


    :-( you are hurting my feelings... (note that the thing works fine on an
    iTouch as well should you change your mind :-)

    --Sylvain

  17. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    On Sep 16, 1:40*pm, Mystif wrote:
    > Here, where I work, we have started using Emu 48 to replace our HPs as
    > they wear out (48GXs). *One of our guys has just purchased an iPhone
    > and wanted to know if it is posible to run Emu48 on it.
    >
    > It looks like a perfect match, but I would have no idea where to even
    > begin. *I know nothing about programming on the Mac or the iPhone and
    > even less about the emmulators programming. *
    >
    > Has this been tried? *Was there success? *If so, how could I repeat
    > it?
    >
    > Thanks.



  18. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    > Over longer period of time HP calculator as we know it today, may become
    > cross platform scientific/teching/math environment, rather than just a
    > calculator.> The point in that case would be to establish a standard of language
    > optimised for math good enough for
    > some general purposes, with simple rules and interpeter.


    By long period of time I am assuming you mean when hell freezes over.
    HP isn't exactly committee to calculators like they use to be.

    I would love an IPhone version of the GX or 50G. The virtual keyboard
    is way nicer than the sillycrap keyboards availble on most 50G's in
    circulation anyways.

    Posted from my iPhone. :-)


  19. Re: Emu48 on the iPhone - can it be done/is it being done?

    On Sep 26, 4:16*am, aplnub wrote:
    > > Over longer period of time HP calculator as we know it today, may become
    > > cross platform scientific/teching/math environment, rather than just a
    > > calculator.> The point in that case would be to establish a standard oflanguage
    > > optimised for math good enough for
    > > some general purposes, with simple rules and interpeter.

    >
    > By long period of time I am assuming you mean when hell freezes over.
    > HP isn't exactly committee to calculators like they use to be.
    >
    > I would love an IPhone version of the GX or 50G. The virtual keyboard
    > is way nicer than the sillycrap keyboards availble on most 50G's in
    > circulation anyways.
    >
    > Posted from my iPhone. :-)


    One problem is that the keys would be too close together to reliably
    press with fingers. On my Treo (320 x 320 screen) I have to use the
    stylus.

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